How to reconcile the visions of America?

[OneGrassRoot]

Wow, I can start a thread now.....cool.....:)

Like most here, I've been reading, listening, and observing the discourse on both sides of the aisle. Forgive me if this is a lame question, but it's genuine, and I'd really like some thoughts from you brilliant people as to its feasibility:

I can't get beyond the feeling that there is no way to bring this country together. The fundamental ideals are so drastically different. I see that many believe that the center is composed of more rational people and that the extremists are very much a minority. Maybe it's because I'm smack dab in the middle of the Bible Belt and feel very much in the minority myself, but I think even centrists have very strong beliefs about certain issues that would be in sharp contrast to others' beliefs. Freedom of religion is a beautiful thing....freedom in general is a beautiful thing.....but what happens when a country is comprised of people with opposing belief systems? Will it inevitably lead to where we find ourselves now? A nation of people, many of whom can't wrap their brains around how others who think differently from them think? I know I can't wrap my brain around my pro-Bush family's mentality, and they surely can't wrap their brain around my position. There is no meeting ground. It's hard enough to try to be civil and interact when its family, but when it's millions of strangers and you have intrinsicly different visions of how you choose to live and how you view America, what's to be done with that?

This is simplistic, but is it feasible that we could indeed have red states and blue states, with much more power given to the states, so that if you are liberal you won't be nearly as affected by the fundamentalist movement in your state? And they can put a statue of the 10 commandments on every street corner in their red state if they choose?

As for those on the fence, it seems it's no longer possible for anyone to sit on the fence....it's time to choose a vision for America. For me, it's simple: I choose to live in freedom, not in fear. Yet so many others seem comfortable being ruled by fear. I don't get it.

I'm sure this is a basic political science lesson and I'll surely be referred to wonderful resources, but I do value the guidance from you folks. There's so much experience and research behind your opinions, and it's truly appreciated.

If nothing else, thanks for allowing me the space to vent that. It troubles me a LOT.

[tocqueville]

1. The majority of European pundits have given up

They say that the USA are drifting away from the common ground of values from the Enlightment as sure as the tectonic plates separate the Atlantic in two... and glide from eachother.

Unless a major change happens, they see a weakened, bitter, isolated America relying on private solutions, nationalistic myths and the Bible.

They don't see how the MAJORITY of Americans could vote for a president that abolishes the death penalty, ban guns and create a welfare state on the European/Canadian model to give some crucial typical examples.

A major catastrophy (terrorism, economic bankrupcy, oil peak) would rather produce Bush types than Roosevelt types, even if hopefully the military part could be partially dismantled for the lack of resources...

People here are very pessimistic about the future of America. They don't see the actual Democrats as a true alternative, for them they are kind of Republican lite. They know that there are forces in America close to the European ideals, but they doubt they have the force, skills and organisation to durably change the course of events...

I hope they are wrong

[sam sarrha]

2. look.. this is Nazi Germany 1936, Science is being invalidated ..etc

.. we invaded Polsnd was invaded.. we are about to declair a universal state of war on an enemy we created..the end is near

[Cats Against Frist]

3. I'm a de-centralizationist

for the very reason you state. It's not the most popular opinion, and would certainly screw some people in the short-run, but I believe the closer the main locus of government, to the people, the better. Of course in any large-scale decentralization scheme, I would recommend that people stop shopping at national and regional chains. I also believe that the national government should nationalize coal, oil and other natural resources, and divvy the resources into local co-operatives -- but, other than that, the fed should have very little function, except for DEFENSE (meaning not pre-emptive war), a national system of interstate highways, and state-to-state disputes.

I believe that community is arbitrary -- and just as the nations that exist with false borders in Africa, and the Middle East, that the U.S., as a collective entity, is, in fact, NOT a nation, and should basically be disbanded, in favor of state and local government.

It's pretty radical, but I'm sticking to it. And that opinion, alone, often gets me called a freeper, or a Republican -- but the fact is, I believe that communities work best, when people have shared goals. It is clear that this nation does not. It is also clear that the "other side," owns the airwaves, the resources, and the military -- and controls them, at will. I think that the sacrifice of some liberal people who may end up, at first, in a more conservative state, is a small price to pay for ending the stranglehold that the corpo-fascists have on everyone.

[rbjensen]

6. Good points

and one example I see of this in action is in our school district. Where I live the school district is huge, over 100 elementaries alone. Over the last few years, the model has moved away from neighborhood schools to school choice. For example, if youare into the British Infant model of child development, you choose a particular school. If you like uniforms and the 1950's model, there are plenty to choose from. We have some schools that emhasize the arts, some sciences, etc. Of course there are standards (unfortunately a huge emphasis on standardized tests right now, but I think the pendulum will swing away from that soon) but each school gets the same money and gets to decide how to spend it. We are figuring out that one size doesn't fit all in education. Maybe we can extend it to our communities one of these days.

[rbjensen]

4. I'm new here too

and I appreciate your post because these are thoughts I ponder myself.

I like your red/blue state concept. And I am no expert in political science either, so I am not steeped in theory here, just what seems common sense to me.

Obviously it isn't going to solve every problem, because if we all share an armed forces we are going to have differences of opinion on how they should be used. But maybe for more social issues? We do have a defacto red/blue now in regards to some issue. I would guess it is less dificult to live an openly gay life, for example, in some cities than in others.

And then sometimes I think we think too hard, if you know what I mean. In my line of work I see people in emergency situations. When it comes down to it, people of all beliefs step up and do what is needed. When somebody needs cpr, needs to be pulled out of a car, need to be comforted when they are shaken up at an emergency, I have NEVER seen anyone ask about political beliefs first. Humanity trumps it all when the chips are down. (sorry for the mixed metaphor there)

Last, without extremes there can be no boundaries. We need the extremes in order to be able to figure out where we personally fit on the continuum. If Pat Robertson didn't exist we'd have to invent him. I think we all just have to remember that as pissed off as we get at the idiocy of the other side, AND WE SHOULD, we should never let our divisions of THOUGHT get in the way of understanding that at the end of the day, at the end of our lives, we share our humanity with everyone out there.

Geez, these hurts my head to think so hard on a Sunday morning. Time for another cup of joe.

[OneGrassRoot]

9. Hey there.........

to another newbie.

I was thinking the same thing this morning, that in emergency situations (Katrina), it doesn't matter. And I truly believe that most people are humane and will do the right thing.

It's in the absence of a physicial emergency in one's daily life that the problem arises. And it's frustrating because, if we were on the same page....even if on a different paragraph.....some of these emergencies may be avoided.

I agree, it hurts my head, too. You've made wonderful points. Thanks for sharing.....:hi:

[Prodemsouth]

5. I think split it all up. Citizen exchanges, Blue America should

join a union with Canada. Those who are red in blue states who want to leave should leave. Those who are blue in red states should or leave to move to a blue area- west coast here I come!! They could call the red areas Jesusland and be bankrupt and isolated in 20 years top. But we, the new country of, The Free Union of North America, must prepare ourselves and have a strong national defense. These mad conservative religious monkeys will surely try to attack us when they find out that red(neck) America had nothing to offer that anyone really wanted.

[sam sarrha]

7. they will ship the liberals to a desert reservation,till the ovens r built

[OneGrassRoot]

8. Thanks much.....

for your thoughts. I like the idea of the blue staters joining with Canada someway. If I can't get to Canada, I'll take Vermont! :bounce: (I'm in NC now)

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

10. Nice post. I think and worry about this a LOT. Spent most of my life

living in liberal, coastal America (Northeast coastal cities and Southern California coastal cities) and now living in Texas the last few years, it really IS different countries with different types of people.

This is scary to me.

I think a fundamental issue is the leadership though. If those who are in power encourage hatred and division because it is advantageous to them, then we get this poisoned atmosphere and it's bad for the country. If they encourage the mending of differences there can be a lot more harmony.

Perhaps a way to do it is to encourage the "red country" people to consider the direction the country as a whole is going, in terms of the atmosphere and how happy people are, and consider whether they think that's a good thing or whether a change is needed.