Bartcop heard a 20 ft. wall of water heading towards N.O.

[donsu]

that's all the info that was on his site

[dogday]

1. They have been reporting 25 foot surge at this point nt

[Eloriel]

10. with 10, 15 or more foot waves on TOP of that n/t

[CrownPrinceBandar]

2. "With every new advisory the news gets worse".................

I just heard a news person on the WWL - NO stream say this. The NWS guy on that station says its beginning to look more and more like a direct hit on downtown NO.

[benburch]

3. Bartcop is correct.

NO will soon only be a tragic memory.

[KyndCulture]

8. The Asian Tsunami wave was 21 feet...

we're talking a sustained storm surge of more than that.. I think you are right, Ben.

[Eloriel]

14. What I've been getting about Katrina this morning is that this is our

tsunami. (Figuratively speaking, of course.)

I hope I'm wrong, too.

[KyndCulture]

18. mee too nt

[Mnemosyne]

11. Oh ben, I pray you are so wrong! n/t

[benburch]

22. I do too.

But all of my study of storms and shipwrecks for the last 40 years tells me that I am not likely to be wrong on this one.

[Mnemosyne]

30. They need a miracle now,

don't they? I saw that Swamp Rat ended up getting out and at least one other DUer was, but when is it completely too late to attempt to leave? Can the AD withstand the winds expected?

This sounds like an epic US tragedy before it has even hit.

:cry: :cry: :cry: :grouphug:

[TwilightZone]

13. He is NOT correct.

There is no "20-foot tsunami" currently "headed for New Orleans."

There is a difference between a tsunami and storm surge. Bartcop obviously has no clue what he's talking about.

He also keeps changing the wording on the site, apparently trying to make it even more sensationalist. This thing is going to be bad enough without making stuff up about it.

[KyndCulture]

17. I didn't say that... and a storm surge is a sustained wall of water.

I know, I've been through them..

in some ways it's worse.

[TwilightZone]

20. You didn't, but Bartcop did.

The networks aren't covering this yet, but the news channels are saying there's a 20-foot tall tsunami headed for New Orleans and, "there won't be enough body bags."

http://www.bartcop.com/

[benburch]

24. Sustained and with constant immense waves.

In MANY ways much worse than a Tsunami.

[KyndCulture]

27. Yeah I hardly find that "sensationalism" it's cold science..

[bpilgrim]

29. does he have a link to his source?

tia :toast:

peace

[TwilightZone]

34. No, he claims that the "news channels" are reporting it.

Here's the quote:

Turn on your TV

The networks aren't covering this yet, but the news channels are saying
there's a 20-foot tall tsunami headed for New Orleans
and, "there won't be enough body bags."

Basically, all he did was glob together a few disparate sound bites and report is as news. My problem with it - I have absolutely no doubt that this is going to be catastrophic - is that the claim of a tsunami headed for New Orleans is such incredibly inaccurate hysteria fodder that it verges on the irresponsible.

[Eloriel]

52. Unless you know something I don't, I think it's just a technicality

There is consdierable similarity, including in the amount of water involved (feet of water level, force coming in), and as others have pointed out, this could actually be worse than a tsunami.

But I see a lot of similarities. Wrong of him to call it that, but he was speaking metaphorically, I think, not literally. (GAWD I hate it that I'm defending Bartcop, I just realized. ptoooey, ptoooey )

[Media_Lies_Daily]

55. Exactly! You "get" it entirely...even the "ptoooey, ptoooey" part! :-)

[pearl]

4. I am quite worried

I just hope to God people get out.
From what I'm hearing 40,000 could be lost.

Dman Damn Damn!

[LeftyFingerPop]

5. Please....

With all due respect....

Let's be a little more careful about sensationalism here. I went to Bartcop's site. There is not a Tsunami heading towards New Orleans at the present time.

We know this will be bad, but let's let it play out and heed official warnings and follow advice as given.

Also, let's help in anyway we can during the aftermath by donating blood, contributing money, etc.

[pearl]

16. i'm not trying to sensationalize this

I do understand your caution though.

I've seen several documentaries on this senario
and predictions are not good.

People should just get out.

[benburch]

19. SENSATIONALISM?

Have you any concept of what sort of a monster this storm is?

One of my #1 interests is storms and wrecks on the Great Lakes, and you clearly have no concept of what wind and water can do.

[LeftyFingerPop]

64. Oh but I do have a concept....

Bartcops site referenced the term "Tsunami". A tsunami is a killer wave. A storm surge can be thought of water rising in a glass. Two different concepts.

With regard to my original post about sensationalism....listen, we all know this is going to be bad. However, we cannot predict where it will hit or what the effect will be. A subtle turn to the east just may help reduce the storm surge.

Go read Bartcop's site. The point I am making is that it is highly irresponsible to use the term Tsunami implying that one is one the way.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

21. Uh...I think the point of the comment went sailing well over your head....

...at about the same height as Katrina's storm surge of 20-25 feet.

[stepnw1f]

28. Who Said "Tsunami"?

You made a really bad assumption by accusing the poster of "Sensationalizing". I think you should apologize because it's aparent you don't understand what a Hurricane of this magnitude will do to such a low-lying piece of land.

[bpilgrim]

31. BARTCOP

"20-foot tall tsunami headed for New Orleans"
http://www.bartcop.com

:shrug:

peace

[stepnw1f]

33. Is a Sea Surge of this type Considered a "Tsunami"?

I still think the poster deserves an apology. And I didn't see him post the word "Tsunami". Not in his original post.

[benburch]

40. No. It is WORSE than a Tsumani.

Calling it a Tsunami is a means of letting people who saw what happened there in recent memory that gives people a real sense of the danger. And in many ways what is coming is VERY similar in that drowning is going to be a major cause of death.

[stepnw1f]

58. Man O' Man

I'm hoping for the best...

[DoYouEverWonder]

6. Very likely

Ivan had a 30 ft surge in some places.

[KyndCulture]

9. However PCB and Pensacola were above sea level

NO is not...

[DoYouEverWonder]

12. Plus NO has a much larger population

Just more reasons why this sucks so bad.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

23. The elevaton of Pensacola is 32 feet (link)....

<http://www.gibbons-realty.com/pensacola.html>

[TwilightZone]

7. That is neither helpful...

nor accurate. Bartcop needs to pull his head out of his ass and actually pay attention to the news reports. It is nowhere near NO at the moment.

Yes, it's going to be catastrophic, but there is a balance between sternly warning people of the danger and unnecessarily inciting hysteria. He's definitely in the latter camp.

Edit: to clarify, Bartcop is claiming that there is a tsunami heading toward New Orleans at the moment. This is CLEARLY inaccurate. This is going to be bad enough without making shit up.

[charlyvi]

15. Agreed.

Though I like Bartcop very much. :)

[Media_Lies_Daily]

32. Gosh...I guess The Weather Channel and several respectable...

...weather websites are also "inciting hysteria"!!

Incredible.

<http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/aboutsshs.shtml>

Category Five Hurricane:

Winds greater than 155 mph (135 kt or 249 km/hr). Storm surge generally greater than 18 ft above normal. Complete roof failure on many residences and industrial buildings. Some complete building failures with small utility buildings blown over or away. All shrubs, trees, and signs blown down. Complete destruction of mobile homes. Severe and extensive window and door damage. Low-lying escape routes are cut by rising water 3-5 hours before arrival of the center of the hurricane. Major damage to lower floors of all structures located less than 15 ft above sea level and within 500 yards of the shoreline. Massive evacuation of residential areas on low ground within 5-10 miles (8-16 km) of the shoreline may be required. Only 3 Category Five Hurricanes have made landfall in the United States since records began: The Labor Day Hurricane of 1935, Hurricane Camille (1969), and Hurricane Andrew in August, 1992. The 1935 Labor Day Hurricane struck the Florida Keys with a minimum pressure of 892 mb--the lowest pressure ever observed in the United States. Hurricane Camille struck the Mississippi Gulf Coast causing a 25-foot storm surge, which inundated Pass Christian. Hurricane Andrew of 1992 made landfall over southern Miami-Dade County, Florida causing 26.5 billion dollars in losses--the costliest hurricane on record. In addition, Hurricane Gilbert of 1988 was a Category Five hurricane at peak intensity and is the strongest Atlantic tropical cyclone on record with a minimum pressure of 888 mb.

[TwilightZone]

35. It's NOT a tsunami.

Bartcop just threw together a bunch of misheard, disparate sound bites and reported it as news.

The claim of a "tsunami headed for New Orleans" is ridiculous and it's irresponsible. That is my point.

The difference between claiming that a tsunami is headed for New Orleans AT THIS MOMENT and warning people that New Orleans is going to be under water in 12-18 hours are two COMPLETELY different things.

One of these statements is accurate. One is not.

Edit: furthermore, one of these statements has the possibility of inciting panic; one allows people to calmly, yet assertively, get the hell out.

[benburch]

36. NO. It is WORSE than a Tsumani.

You are clearly ignorant of the sort of devastation we are talking about.

Please stop trying to give people a false sense of security. Tens of thousands will likely die in the next 24 hours.

[TwilightZone]

37. Wrong. You've obviously missed my point.

Claiming that a tsunami is headed for New Orleans AT THIS VERY MOMENT is bullshit, pure and simple.

Claiming that a tsunami is AT THIS VERY MOMENT rushing toward New Orleans is irresponsible and nothing more than sensationalist garbage.

People need to be provided with ACCURATE information, not hysterical bullshit, so that they fully understand that they need to get the hell out of New Orleans, but not do so in a complete and utter panic.

Screaming "there's a tsunami heading for New Orleans" has the potential to cause mass panic, because people may believe that they are in danger AT THIS VERY MOMENT instead of understanding that they need to get out in the next few hours.

Causing mass panic is NOT the best way to get people to safety. Sorry if you actually believe otherwise.

[benburch]

38. They ARE in danger at this very moment.

Because they are maybe 400 minutes away from the point where an evacuation attempt will be impossible.

[TwilightZone]

42. 400 minutes does not equal "now"

Invoking unnecessary hysteria does NOTHING to help. And perpetuating that hysteria by making a complete false statement is irresponsible to the point of ridiculousness.

You might as well scream "FIRE" in a packed theater that is scheduled to be burned down four hours from now.

[benburch]

46. That has to be the least informed comment I have heard today.

400 minutes DOES equal NOW in an evacuation situation. You clearly have no concept of what you are talking about.

[TwilightZone]

62. You're missing my point. It's very simple.

My point is very simple, and I think you're intentionally missing it.

So, I'll make it as succinctly as possible: I think people should get accurate information in an emergency situation like this, not misinformation or sensationalism.

There was no tsunami. There isn't going to be a tsunami.

There will be storm surge, which is likely to be much, much worse.

Claiming that a tsunami was "headed for New Orleans" implies that a tsunami is going to hit immediately or very, very soon and implies a short-term threat.

A tsunami was not imminent, and Katrina is no short-term threat. The storm surge and rains will likely flood large portions of NO for days, if not weeks.

Yes, people need to get out immediately. I never said otherwise. But, this situation is going to be bad enough without making up news items about it and providing people with inaccurate information.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

53. Wow!! Who's "invoking unnecessary hysteria"?? The only....

...DELIBERATELY false statements I see in this thread are your unsupported rants about other posters "creating panic", "invoking unnecessary hysteria", and "inducing riots".

Tell me this...at the present rate of speed of Katrina over water, how soon will the peak of the storm surge reach the French Quarter?

Take your time...I'm sure you'll want to think up some creatively false comments about how I'm "inciting panic" by stating scientific information available to anyone that studies hurricanes.

[TwilightZone]

63. Your defensiveness is unwarranted. I'm not questioning you.

Hell, I just want people to get good information and not worry for no reason. That's it. Pretty simple.

There was no tsunami; that is a fact and the sole source of my complaint. The reality of Katrina is much worse and much more long-term.

As far as disputing scientific facts, I haven't questioned anything other than one claim, not yours, that there was a tsunami.

Nor did I state that you or anyone else in this thread was creating panic, etc. My point is that demonstrably false information can lead to unnecessary panic. Would you disagree?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

41. IMHO, your post seems to have more of an edge of "panic"....

...to it than ANY of the posts attempting to rationally explain what was meant by Bartcop.

[TwilightZone]

44. You can't explain away a completely false statement.

And forgive me for thinking that evacuations should be orderly and not framed by complete hysteria.

I guess everyone else is right - let's incite a riot. That should get people to safety.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

49. IMHO, you've gone way past the point of having a rational discussion....

I noticed with a great deal of interest that you made absolutely no attempt to refute the scientifically-based comments I made in my post.

Nobody's stating that evacuations shouldn't "be orderly and not framed with hysteria"...that remark is totally false.

Nobody's "inciting a riot" on this board...that remark is also totally false.

It seems in your rush to refute Bartcop's allegedly "false" statement, you've generated even more demonstrably false statements to support your point of view.

[TwilightZone]

61. "Allegedly false"

How can you possibly argue that Bartcop's state is "allegedly" false?

Was there a tsunami?

My point in this thread was that claiming a tsunami was about to hit NO was inaccurate and unnecessarily sensationalistic.

Do you refute that his statement was false? I'm not sure how you could.

The sensationalism part is simply my opinion.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

39. Okay...picture this if you can...

...a tsunami is a wall of water that travels "x" number of miles across water as a result of an underwater quake. The larger the underwater quake, the larger and more dangerous the tsunami.

A storm surge is a wall of water that travels "x" number of miles across water as a result of an hurricane's low pressure system that creates a "bulge" of water. The lower the pressure, the higher and more dangerous the "bulge". Additionally, a storm surge generated by an hurricane is accompanied by large waves stacked on top of the surge, and very high winds.

The other major difference between the two events is that one usually has several days of warning before hurricanes strike land, while the warning for a tsunami may not be for any longer than a few hours.

IMHO, an hypothetical person at the receiving end of a storm surge or a tsunami sees very little difference in the effects of the water.

Additionally, and IMHO, if you're living in New Orleans and CANNOT get out for whatever reason, you're beginning to feel a bit of panic no matter what anyone else says about remaining "calm".

[TwilightZone]

45. Oh, I can picture it just fine.

I understand the difference between storm surge and a tsunami.

Bartcop doesn't have a clue.

The time difference is exactly my point. There is no point in inducing immediate hysteria by claiming that there is an immediate danger when that simply isn't true. It's like yelling "fire" in a theater that isn't currently on fire, but most certainly will burn completely to the ground a few hours from now. Inducing panic will only make it more difficult for people to get out.

Creating a riot isn't the answer, though for some bizarre reason, many of you seem to think that it is. People need accurate information, not hysteria, if they're going to get out in time. This is going to be immensely catastrophic as it is.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

51. Where's the "hysteria" you keep talking about? Who's "creating a....

...riot"? Who's "inducing panic"? If you can find them on this board or anywhere else, please point them out. All I've seen from your posts are an increasingly more strident rants about people that you claim are "creating a riot", "inducing panic", and causing "hysteria".

People are getting a great deal of accurate information by television and the Internet. Tell me what you're providing?

[TwilightZone]

59. Simple: Bartcop's claim was sensationalistic nonsense.

Well, let's see. I've only referenced the statement about twenty times now.

The OP quoted Bartcop. Here's the actual quote on BC:

The networks aren't covering this yet, but the news channels are saying there's a 20-foot tall tsunami headed for New Orleans"

Yeah, right. No one on any news channel reported any such thing. What the news channels were reporting was that the STORM SURGE was expected to be as high as 28 feet tomorrow morning. (Notice that he didn't bother to provide a source for his "tsunami" claim.)

Storm surge is not a tsunami. In this case, it could be much, much worse. Tsunamis are generally short-lived. The storm surge could press on for hours and flood significant portions of NO for days.

BC's tsunami statement is false to the point of absurdity. Claiming that a tsunami was headed for New Orleans at that very moment - twelve or more hours before anything remotely resembling a tsunami (the storm surge) will be there - is nothing other than a misguided attempt to freak people out.

Imagine the MSM reporting a false claim that a tsunami was bearing down on NO right now. Do you really believe that doing so would not have the potential of inciting panic? Dan Rather got fired for less.

As I've said elsewhere in this thread, this thing is going to be catastrophic enough without people having to make stuff up about it.

[Tinoire]

65. Maybe you should read his entire statement

"Turn on your TV

The networks aren't covering this yet, but the news channels are saying
there's a 20-foot tall tsunami headed for New Orleans
and, "there won't be enough body bags."
Maybe they're just being whores, but they're saying, "the loss of life will be devastating."
New Orleans could be under water Monday - if we can trust what they're saying. "

Think you're making quite a mountain out of no molehill.

[hedgehog]

25. Is this the storm that lets the Mississippi move it's bed?

I heard years ago that major money has been spent to lock the river into its bed but that a major storm could allow it to cut a new channel to the Gulf away from New Orleans.

[Eloriel]

56. Quite probably.

A couple of the discussions yesterday talked about that a little. Some River that begins with an A is where the Mississippi has been wanting to go for quite some time. She may very well get her wish this time, thanks to friend Katrina. :wow:

[dogday]

26. I remember driving through GulfPort, Biloxi, New Orleans

after Camile hit there were just foundations left from houses that once stood and toilets were also still there. Pier pylons stood were there no longer any piers.



It was eerie.....

[Media_Lies_Daily]

43. Yep....scoured flat. Some of those foundations can still be seen...

...because nothing was ever rebuilt on some of those sites.

[benburch]

47. Outer bands showing on regional radar now.

http://www.weatherunderground.com/radar/mixedcomposite.asp?region=d4&size=2x

[High Plains]

48. New Orleans will be destroyed!!! Tens of thousands dead!!!

I guess we'll see tomorrow if these guys are being sensationalistic or not...

But somehow I think they are.

[AgadorSparticus]

50. I hope you are right. I'd rather they be sensationalistic than seeing

thousands dead. But I don't think they are overstating this disaster.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

54. Please tell me about the hurricanes you've experienced up close and....

...personal, and then tell me which of those storms approached Katrina in wind-strength, size, and potential storm surge.

[High Plains]

57. I don't claim any particular expertise on hurricanes...

it's just that I am a bit skeptical of these doomsday pronouncements. I hope I'm right.

[FreedomAngel82]

60. This is absolutley the worst

Now I feel so sick in my stomach and awful for those people who are still there.

[bee]

66. wlox (biloxi) has been reporting

an impending 35-40 foot surge.

www.wlox.com

edited for typo

[Corgigal]

67. CNN reported less then 30 mins ago

65 feet waves. Sorry i was doing too many things at once to tell you where exactly but not hitting land but out in the bay somewhere.