To all you posters justifying the looting........

[Roxy66]

Tell me why these people are not helping to save people....instead, they are TAKING from people?

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

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[Llewlladdwr]

2. Well okay then.

Nothing like a little looting to improve one's self esteem. You could even claim yourself a hero!

[Roxy66]

3. So it's o.k. to steal?....maybe after several days, but not the same day

Bad argument.......

[msongs]

4. they could loot computers and do music file sharing with them

2 lootings for the price of one :-)

Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

PS - the looters today were mostly likely that kind of person last week too, the hurricane is just a special opportunity, kind of like a...sale.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

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[magellan]

15. "OK to steal", that's brilliant

Do you realize that these are the same people who will ROB HOMES evacuated by others as soon as they have a chance? That's a huge problem after disasters like this. Here in C. FL. last year, people sat outside their wrecked homes with guns and put signs up warning looters off.

I'd like to see how trivial you'd think this was if it was YOUR home that had just been damaged, you couldn't get back to it, and the looters were already out on the local streets having a field day.

[sundog]

17. boom!

thanks for that :)

[Cleita]

18. Thank you.n/t

[WI Independent]

34. Did you ever think...

One reason people are dying tonight is BECAUSE of the people with the shopping carts? It's not trivial, some people didn't evacuate because of fear of looters.

Simple equation:
Looters this time = more people that stay (and sometimes die) next time.

[Name removed]

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[Roxy66]

10. Oh, I feel that "Liberal" kinda love right now...thank you

[The_Casual_Observer]

5. Nobody would justify looting that has ever seen it up close

or has been looted. It isn't about going hungry, nobody is going hungry down there, it's about stealing goods from shops.

[Cleita]

22. And what exactly did you see up close in the same

circumstances? I'd say the stuff in the shops is pretty well trashed by the flooding.

[Seabiscuit]

32. So what exactly what did you see that was looted that was "pretty well

trashed by the flooding"??? If we are to take your words literally and believe you, then you must be one of the looters who just happened to be the stoooooopidest among them, by looting stuff that was already "trashed". Because, of course, you know what you're talking about, because you were there and you saw it all.

[Seabiscuit]

31. There's nothing "liberal" or "progressive" about looting. It stinks.

It's a fucking crime, for crissake, who the hell could possibly think it could be justified????

Poverty sure as hell doesn't justify it. It never has and it never will. There are other solutions to poverty, none of which has ever worked very well, but looting, sure isn't one that will ever work.

[magellan]

6. People are justifying looting??

I was in L.A. during the riots and I'll tell you what, the thing that compelled roving crowds to smash windows and steal goods was also behind the thuggery that saw motorists pulled from their vehicles and beaten to within an inch of their lives. It's called mob mentality, it's savage, and there is NO justification for it.

[Cleita]

27. So was I. I watched it on television pretty much like you

probably did. That had nothing to do with a natural disaster. You know we have fires all the time in Southern California and earthquakes and you don't see mob mentality as you describe. I think you haven't seen anything first hand like you try to pretend.

[Seabiscuit]

36. Bullshit. The L.A. riots were exactly as he described. I was there.

[sundog]

7. thanks for casting your shame

we needed that :thumbsup:

[Roxy66]

8. Give me a break

[sundog]

11. i did, i'm too busy feeling shame to respond

[proud2BlibKansan]

12. If these pro looters were business owners,

and their businesses were being looted, I wonder if they would still think it's okay.

[Skink]

14. Far as I can see Bush and Cheney are the real looters....

[proud2BlibKansan]

23. Agreed

[Bluerthanblue]

30. you know-

I really don't think people are '"pro-looting"- I think that what is being said is that complaining about looting when people have been through what they have been through is fruitless, and cruel-
It is SO easy for us to sit here and judge- YOU go through what they did- and then preach to everyone about why 'looting' is so obscene.
I hate to say this, but anything anyone is getting, will probably be complete trash by the time the original owner would get to it anyway-
Their 'businesses' are pretty well washed up-

It is STUFF- THINGS- POSSESSIONS- not lives. And many of these folks were quite poor to begin with- and it apparently hit the poorest neighborhoods the worst.

I'm not "pro-looting" i just think that beating those who are already WAY 'down' is pretty sad- and unless you've lived it- you might not understand- i sure as hell don't.


Now, if you want to talk about those who looted the Twin Towers who were 'rescue personel'- you might have more of an argument- Those folks HAD homes to go back to- and the basic necesities of life.

The folks looting in LA. are living in desperate conditions- and there is no end in sight.

[proud2BlibKansan]

I understand your point

I still think it's wrong to steal.

But then I am not in that situation. I guess until I have walked in their mocassins . . .

[Bluerthanblue]

72. and I yours- and I agree

that stealing is wrong-

I'd love to be able to say with total conviction "I'd never do that"- but i can't- I know i've done some really irrational things in totally crazy situations- things that only 'hurt' me- but in retrospect those actions seem insane- At the time they 'made sense'-
Crazy situations bring out some not so great things- and i can't condemn them blanketly- i'm sad, i'm frustrated, i'm BOTHERED- but i am NOT THEM- and until i have lived through a natural disaster such as this- i have no right to 'claim' i'd do 'better'-
i don't "JUSTIFY" looting- but neither can i condemn these folks either-

Anyone remember the photos of the people who supposedly laughed and applauded sept. 11- the media played the SAME tired old video over and over and over- just to stoke the indignance- i'm not buying the media's spin machine- i'm reserving 'judgement' and choosing to cut a LARGE amount of slack-

I think we are ALL angry- and looking for places to put it.

[Seabiscuit]

37. Most businesses that are looted are mom and pop stores. There's nothing

about such looting that could ever be legally or morally justified.

[proud2BlibKansan]

50. That was kind of my point

But I am also thinking maybe it's wrong to judge so harshly. If they are stealing food, that's a different story than if they are stealing TVs.

[tjdee]

61. That's what I"m saying.

I can't agree with arresting someone for stealing food/diapers if the store's not even open!

[tjdee]

13. They're not the National Guard, that's why.

I don't know how you expect someone stealing from a grocery store (and yes, I'm on a grocery store kick) to somehow conjure a helicopter and help the people on their roofs, which is where these people are.

How exactly should they be helping them?

[Roxy66]

16. I guess if all you can think of is steal...I wouldnt know what else

to tell you.

[tjdee]

19. You're the one who implied they should be saving people.

So how do you propose they do that?

Not to mention, they don't have access to television. How the hell are they supposed to know where people need help? Obviously if they're looting, there isn't significant flooding in their area--how would they be able to know the level of devastation elsewhere?

[Roxy66]

21. I'm sorry...I just think this kind of justification is crazy

[tjdee]

26. Oh, I haven't even begun to justfy!!

It is wrong to steal.

It's also wrong to kill people, and soldiers (of every country and time) do that every day.

There *are* certain instances when *everything* is justifiable. Stealing some food from a convenience store in the aftermath of a hurricane that probably just destroyed your house and all your belongings, including the dishes you'd probably be using to eat that food on? That's one of them.

[Bluerthanblue]

39. I'd imagine living

through a hurricane like this might very well make a person act a bit crazy- and do some 'crazy' things-
It's SO easy for us to say 'oh, I'd NEVER do that!!!" Live it, then you can say what you'd do.- Till then it's all speculation.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

24. "Not to mention, they don't have access to television"

I bet that will change quick........

[tjdee]

28. There's no electricity.

I can't justify stealing things like televisions,etc.

I'm only justifying essential thieving. :)

[sundog]

25. roxy is our high brow moralist for the evening

we should all follow roxy's lead... do as she would do... since she has such extensive experience with natural disasters & inner city life :eyes:

[Roxy66]

33. O.K......I have lived in poverty. Have you? I'm a single parent. Are you?

Kiss off!! You want to take me on morally.....fine. I love my neighbor, I wont steal, and I think voicing my opinion against things I find wrong to be the right thing to do with out getting ridiculed.....I thought that was why we are all here. I asked a serious question, and all I get are Repug responses. Unless you really know what it's like to live in poverty and at times in the past not have food to feed your kids, you really have no idea what you are talking about

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

38. It's okay......

....the few folks who are trying to make excuses probably have the comfort to set a security alarm before they go to bed.

[Roxy66]

42. Thank you...going to bed :)

[sundog]

43. oh but i do

more than you know... i have never resorted to stealing either, but i am not about to condemn people who have been born into generations of poverty & currently fighting for their very survival...

how can you judge those people from your safe, comfortable seat where you are posting?

that's where i'm confused

[Roxy66]

51. So, basically I have no right to improve my life and have an opinion

at the same time. Oh, and by the way are you a single parent? If not, shut up!!! I think most single parents know how tough it is to get by, without stealing

[sundog]

55. nevermind, you missed my point completely so we're just going in circles

empathy.

that is all.

goodnight roxy. eom

[tjdee]

46. Well I have.

I'm a single parent also. And we don't have much food in the house (because I'm sick, LOL).

And I can tell you that if we were struck with a hurricane and we had no food in the house/our house was flooded/whatever, my daughter was hungry ,and my local big store supermarket was without power and not opening indefinitely (they are telling people they can't come back yet)-- I would probably go and get her some food. I'd probably also get her a coloring book. Or should I sit at home and starve her until the store opens?

So I guess that makes me a big bad psycho criminal contributing to the downfall of our society.
:eyes:

Don't worry though, I have the worst luck of anyone and would be caught right away.

[Roxy66]

53. On the first day? Would you steal a television?

[tjdee]

58. No I wouldn't steal a television.

I draw the line at things like television, jewelry, etc.

The issue isn't that it's the first day. People were poor before the hurricane--if Joe Schmo's kids haven't been eating for weeks, this is a gift right out of the sky. I don't see the point of leaving spoiling food there just so everyone can pat themselves on the back for not stealing. There's no electricity! You'd think the stores would have some kind of contingency plan for just this occasion and give the food away/offer it at reduced prices before the storms.

I wouldn't put it past Joe Schmo to try to score a tv so he can sell it and feed the fam for more than a few days...but then he's getting greedy, IMO.


All I'm saying is that it *is not* a black and white situation, even if it is easier or more comfortable to think of it as such.

[Bluerthanblue]

57. I DO- and I HAVE

and while i'd LOVE to claim the 'moral high ground'- i've never lived through a hurricane- I've never seen my town covered under 20 feet of water- But, to be HONEST- i don't KNOW what i'd do- and i'd sure hate to think people sitting in comfortable dry safe homes, were judging me for anything i did after going through that-

I've been beaten to shit, gone hungry, lived in poverty for YEARS- and what i'm hearing is NOT 'REPUB" responses- what i'm hearing are people saying look at the BIG PICTURE- it is easy to judge those folks- it's not so easy to look with mercy and compassion- and not condemn.

How many people BITCHED about the fact that these folks had to stand in ENDLESS lines to be SEARCHED 'for security'????? you think they'd search those in Beverly Hills who were going into a last ditch shelter??? You think they'd say 'BRING YOUR OWN FOOD AND WATER?????'
We are all very frustrated, troubled, sad, scared and angry- give the victims a break- at least for now? They aren't watching this on t.v.-
They are living it.

And the STUFF will be replaced- in America we 'prize' STUFF above lives-

i've been 'white trailer trash'- and may very well be again someday- the way this economy is going. So don't think i don't know- i just can't beat them down, when i'm not living their horror.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

20. What's really sad is........

....they'd most likely loot the person before they saved them.

[tjdee]

29. Way to think the best of people!

Someone stealing a tv isn't necessarily a bad person with no compassion whatsoever.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

35. So stealing isn't a bad trait?

Seems to me if you are running out in a state of emergency, breaking into stores and stealing electronics, you're probably on a slippery slope to being an asshole, at least.

[Seabiscuit]

44. Nah, fugghetabout the "slippery slope" - you're already an asshole if

you're breaking into stores and stealing electonics.

Electronics are luxury items.

It's not like stealing an apple from an apple cart because you're starving to death.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

56. I feel a Bill Maher "new rule" coming on....

...along with..."If you're going to steal from a grocery store because you're hungry, steal the f***ing rice cakes and low fat Lays potato chips. Because they can't give that shit away anyhow".

[Roxy66]

60. O.K......thanks for giving me a laugh.

[Seabiscuit]

40. OK, I'll guess that you're not a necessarily bad person with no

compassion whatsoever.

Have you stolen a TV?

Would you?

Why do you think that's OK?

[tjdee]

52. I don't think that's okay.

As I said above, I'm only justifying the essential thieving like food/toiletries.

I think someone has the right to try to steal a television, but they also have the right to be arrested for it. I don't believe in greediness on any level. You can't eat televisions.

[Lindacooks]

41. And what do you think of this scenario?

Before the hurricane, when gas stations closed down, state troopers were GUARDING the pumps so people didn't steal the gas. What kind of crazy ass shit is that? Guarding GASOLINE, so people couldn't get out of a Cat 5 hurricane??

Shows where their priorities are.

And the things people are stealing? DIAPERS AND FOOD. Not exactly your typical 'steal and pawn' people there.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

49. Last I checked, ATM's don't dispense diapers

Unless that was a diaper vending machine with a video screen and a slot for your card I saw smashed up.

[Lindacooks]

59. That's not what I saw.

The vast majority of looters are taking food. Just because you saw that doesn't mean what I saw isn't happening.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

67. And just because you didn't see what I saw......

....doesn't mean there isn't a little more than "diapers and food" being swiped.

[Lindacooks]

69. That's just enough.

And you're on ignore.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

71. Gee, that was quick.....

....a simple reverse of logic and I'm ignored. I'm crushed, really.

:shrug:

[mixedview]

45. slightly OT: this is why communism can never work

because people usually act in a selfish manner to grab as much for themselves, and not according to morality/goodness.

[tjdee]

54. You are exactly right.

Communism will never work.

[WillyT]

47. Man, Did We Raise A Bunch Of Conservative Liberals In The '80's Or What ??

Thou shalt not steal, baby!

Is it really that simple for ya?

:wow:

Oh yeah, I forgot:

[Lars39]

68. On target as usual, WillyT.

:thumbsup:

[VADem11]

62. There is an alternative

Many of these people could be heading toward the shelters such as the superdome if possible. They have food and water there and wouldn't have to resort to stealing.

[Roxy66]

63. O.K......I'm calling a TRUCE.

Not worth the fight...sorry

[bpilgrim]

65. it's the M$MW programming

getting to you, fight the POWER!

peace

[bpilgrim]

64. Survival is probably everyones TOP priority

who are suffering through this tragedy.

and leave it up to the M$MWs to try and stir up their own SHIT.

where are your priorities right now?

peace

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

66. Yeah...let them eat MRE's

[HadItUpToHere]

70. They need to send in the National Guard!

oh...wait- all those guys are over in iraq- nevermind.

[Moderator]

73. Locking

Flamebait.