Reports of shootings, carjackings and looting near the Superdome -CNN

[underthedome]

Reports of shootings, carjackings and looting in the area near the Louisiana Superdome, New Orleans, a policeman tells CNN. More soon.

www.CNN.com Breaking

[silverweb]

1. Carjackings?

Where are they going to drive to?

:crazy:

[madeline_con]

3. Good point....

they certainly won't get far.

[Ilsa]

54. They probably don't know that unless they've had access to radios.

I wonder if anyone there knows what is going on if they are out of a shelter and the batteries are dead on their radios.

[Liberal Veteran]

18. Maybe they meant "Boatjackings"?

:shrug:

[skooooo]

2. Well, hope those idiots...

think it's worth it when the water's rising. Can't drive a car through 15 ft of water.

[Maple]

4. There is no logic to it

They are frightened people who have lost everything, and may be facing imminent death.

Fear does strange things to people.

[brentspeak]

10. You didn't see Londoners behaving that way during the Blitz

The people in New Orleans carjacking and harming other people have zero sympathy or understanding from me.

[Frances]

16. Well you had some real leaders then

Winston Churchill vs Bush?

Don't make me laugh

[LeftyMom]

21. London was organized

this is a clusterfuck.

[NNN0LHI]

22. Are you sure about that?

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/2WWcrime.htm

<snip>One of the most shocking crimes committed during wartime was the looting from bombed houses. In the first eight weeks of the London Blitz a total of 390 cases of looting was reported to the police. On 9th November, 1940, the first people tried for looting took place at the Old Bailey. Of these twenty cases, ten involved members of the Auxiliary Fire Service.

The Lord Mayor of London suggested that notices should be posted throughout the city, reminding the population that looting was punishable by hanging or shooting. However, the courts continued to treat this crime leniently. When a gang of army deserters were convicted of looting in Kent the judge handed down sentences ranging from five years' penal servitude to eight years' hard labour. Some critics pointed out that Nazi Germany suffered less from this crime as looters were routinely executed for this offence.

In Leeds a judge announced that "more than two whole days have been occupied in dealing with cases of looting which have occurred in one city (Sheffield)... In many cases these looters have operated on a wholesale scale. There were actually two-men who had abandoned well-paid positions, one of them earning £7 to £9 a week, and work of public importance, and who abandoned it to take up the obviously more remunerative occupation of looting."

Chief Inspector Percy Datlen, reported what happened in Dover after one heavy raid: "In cases where there are several houses bombed out in one street, the looters have systematically gone through the lot. Carpets have been stripped from the floors, stair carpets have been removed: they have even taken away heavy mangles, bedsteads and complete suites of furniture."

[Judi Lynn]

24. You've brought a moment of enlightenment! Have never heard about this.

It should be reposted regularly to prevent being engulfed by racists posturing as ordinary posters who want to tie crime to minorities as per usual.

[brentspeak]

25. I'm talking about assaulting, carjacking (violent crime)

[The Magistrate]

29. You May Be Sure There Was Violent Crime, Sir

People are pretty much the same all around, and most history of the period has been subjected to the air-brush....

[SammyWinstonJack]

40. It's been a free for all for some here today to paint these people,

who are just trying to survive, the best they can in a bad light! Very sad! And who knows how any of us would act under the same circumstances?

[The Magistrate]

52. In Disordered Circumstances, Sir

There will certainly be a criminal element. Many people doubtless are simply securing necessities, and ought not be blamed for it. But there will be some out for more, and even a small hard core that stayed behind simply to have the opportunity to snatch valuables. the real problem is trying to treat the matter as though it were all one thing or another.

[NNN0LHI]

47. From the original link

>>>The murder-rate increased dramatically in the war. One interesting case involved Harry Dobkin. He soon realized that during the Blitz so many people were killed in air raids that it was impossible for the police to investigate every death. Victims were buried quickly and very few post mortems were carried out. Dobkin murdered his wife, Rachel Dobkin, in April 1941 and buried her under the ruin of Vauxhall Baptist Chapel, hoping she would be discovered as an air raid victim.

The body was not discovered until May 1942. It became clear that the person had not died recently and a pathologist was called in. After examining the body Dr. Keith Simpson argued that the broken bone in the throat suggested that Rachel Dobkin had been strangled. The body was coated in builders' lime. The police came to the conclusion that the murderer had done this to destroy the body. However, he had obviously not known the difference between quicklime and builders's lime, which actually helped to preserve the body.

The jury took only twenty minutes to find Harry Dobson guilty of murder and he was hanged at Wandsworth Prison. This case raised the issue of how many people had been murdered during the war and had been successfully buried in the rubble of bombed out buildings.

One of the most notorious murder cases took place during a week in February 1942. On 9th February, Evelyn Hamilton, was found in an air raid shelter in Marylebone. She had been strangled and her handbag had been stolen. The following day the body of Evelyn Oatley was found in her Wardour Street flat. She had been strangled and mutilated with a tin-opener. Three days later Margaret Lowe was also found strangled and mutilated. On 12th February, a fourth woman, Doris Jouannet, was also found killed in the same way. The newspapers now described the killer as the Blackout Ripper.

Soon after the body of Doris Jourannet was found, the killer attacked a fifth woman. He was disturbed by a delivery boy and the man ran off. He left behind his Gas Mask case. Inside was a service number that identified it as belonging to Gordon Cummings, a twenty-eight year cadet in the RAF. Although he did not have a criminal record or have a history of violence, the evidence against Cummings was overwhelming. His fingerprints were found in two of the flats where the killings took place. He was also found in possession of objects stolen from the women. Cummings was found guilty and executed on 24th June. Later Scotland Yard claimed Cummings had also murdered two other women during air raids in London in October 1941.<<<

[brentspeak]

58. Your're comparing the actions of a serial killer

to carjackers and people who shoot at cops who are trying to stop looters.

In other words, there's no comparison. My case stands.

[alcibiades_mystery]

37. LOL: Perfect post

Most eviscerating response seen in ages on these boards.

Terrific. :thumbsup:

[brentspeak]

61. Too bad it didn't eviscerate me

I didn't mention a word about "looting"; I was talking about violent crime.

(Some people apparently would bend over backwards three times over to defend violent behavior just to satisfy their PC agenda.)

[Nikki Stone 1]

44. So the British looted too---not really a surprise but nice to document

Thanks

[ScreamingMeemie]

28. I didn't see it ( I wasn't born yet) but my grandmother sure as hell

did. Three frightening nights with her father guarding their door with a rifle.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

56. Some things were different in London during the Blitz

1. The British government encouraged a "we're all in this together" mentality (as opposed to the "Mepublican" mentality)

2. There were orderly voluntary evacuations of people who wanted to leave London or send their children to the country (as opposed to everyone fending for themselves)

3. People knew that they could always go to the Underground to sleep (no information on where to go, according to several reports)

4. At no time was 80% of London rendered uninhabitable (obvious difference from New Orleans)

5. The traditional British social order was still intact, and there were no racial or ethnic minorities to speak of. No one was as disenfranchised or out of the mainstream in 1940s London as a poor person in modern New Orleans is.

6. It was never impossible to leave London, and plenty of information was available (New Orleans is cut off, and information is hard to come by)

I don't see the incidents as "carjackings," which I always understood as hijacking a car because you want to steal it or get away from a crime scene.

I see this as desperate people reaching the breaking point and being willing to do anything to get out of the city.

I swear, some people on this board have no ability to imagine themselves in some of these situations.

[brentspeak]

59. I can imagine myself

not carjacking or shooting at cops.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

63. Well bully for you

I wouldn't carjack or shoot at cops either, but I can understand why some people might go kind of crazy under the circumstances.

It's called putting yourself in the other person's shoes.

[silverweb]

11. Good point.

Also, they have no communications, no TV, no cell phone reception. They probably don't know that all the roads are out of commission.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

5. no doubt people are getting desperate...the water is rising

[54anickel]

15. Is the Superdome located in the area that they are trying to evacuate

for the levy that's going to go? East Bank and Jefferson - the pumps are expected to fail.

[rodeodance]

27. yes

[ScreamingMeemie]

26. ...and some here expect them to act like perfectly genteel men and

women and orderly allow themselves to drown. I am amazed at the idiocy that some are posting here.

[Roy]

55. Nahhhh..... these guys plan ahead....

It's just pre-emptive justification for the freeper who will inevitably show up there to claim self-defense after declaring open season on a few dark skinned people.

[Chico Man]

6. Plus the prison is rioting

This is absolutely unbelievable.

[davepc]

7. Typical activity following the breakdown of social order

and not enough government force able to be deployed to re-establish it.

[havocmom]

14. A glimpse into the future

and not a pretty sight. Wake up America! We need to stop the 'stay the course' shit and rethink some values!

edit: typo

[Terran]

45. God, you're right.

More and more global warming castrophes, and gas shortages. It's going to be ugly.

[Junkdrawer]

30. Bingo.

We have a winner.

[Mabus]

8. It's part of their "freedoms" living under a democracy

:sarcasm:

[brooklynite]

9. Times-Picayune: Looting difficult to control

Widespread looting contributed to a deteriorating situation in Louisiana's largest city Tuesday in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina Tuesday, according to witnesses and second-hand accounts from evacuees.

The problem is being compounded, officials said, by a breakdown in the ability of public agencies to communicate with one another, said New Orleans City Council President Oliver Thomas.

“The most frustrating thing about this whole thing has been communication,” Thomas said. “We have to devise a better system.”

He said looting has also escalated and an atmosphere of lawlessness has developed as police resources have been almost entirely devoted to search-and-rescue operations for people trapped by floodwaters on roofs and in attics. “Widespread looting is taking place in all parts of the city” - from uptown and Canal Street to areas around the housing projects, Thomas said.

“People are going in and out of businesses at Louisiana and Claiborne (avenues), taking clothes, tennis shoes and goods,” Thomas said. “It is inconceivable to me how people can do this.”

“People are leaving the Superdome to go to Canal Street to loot,” Thomas said. “Some people broke into drug stores and stole the drugs off the shelves. It is looting times five. I'm telling you, it's like Sodom and Gomorrah.”

http://www.nola.com/newslogs/breakingtp/index.ssf?/mtlogs/nola_Times-Picayune/archives/2005_08.html#075234
- - -
My initial opinion was that a lot of this was opportunistics (exacerbated perhaps by poverty, bot nonetheless...). Now I think this is in part a sign of desparation as the local situation grows worse.

[54anickel]

13. Most of the pics of looting that I've seen have been for essentials

There were women with food and bleach from a grocery story, a guy with food (one with beer, but hey to me that would be an essential). Saw one with an armful of clothing. They were all wading thru waist high or deeper water. Not the type of things that come to my mind when I hear looting. That brings images of TVs and electronics to me.

Noticed the local police were guarding the drug store with a shotgun. That was on dry land.

What do they expect? These people are living on the bridges and over passes for cripes sake. There's no aid readily available to them there. Sad, very sad.

[johnnie]

23. Bleach?

That seems like a strange one.

[Retrograde]

33. disinfectant

add some to drinking water. Smells like a swimming pool, but kills a lot of the little beasties. It's a recommended procedure for when you can't boil your water adequately.

[johnnie]

39. Ah

Didn't think about that. Thanks.

[Judi Lynn]

36. For cleaning scummy, slimey, moldy gunk from walls, floors, etc. n/t

[Raksha]

42. Bleach is a good all-purpose disinfectant. n/t

[JohnLocke]

60. Purifies water.

In an emergency, to purify drinking water, two methods are most often used. They are boiling the water and adding chlorine (household bleach, such as Chlorox) to it. This calculator determines the quantity of bleach and water mixture to meet the desired emergency water purification mixture, based on the condition of the target water. Most emergency experts and health officials suggest a mixture of 8 drops of bleach to a gallon of generally clear water for best results. Based on environment or cloudiness of the water, you may want to change the quantity of drops to 16 per gallon of cloudy or murky water. Enter the maximum possible volume of water container. The entry should be in gallons. Enter the desired drops of the bleach per gallon and select the appropriate water condition from the drop down box. Click on Calculate and read the calculated result in drops that should be added to the volume of water specified. Please remember that this is a guideline.

As suggested by the EPA, vigorous boiling for at least one minute (preferably more) will kill any disease causing microorganisms present in water (at altitudes above 5000 feet above sea level, boil for three to five minutes longer). The flat taste of boiled water can be improved by pouring it back and forth from one container to another (called aeration), by allowing it to stand in a closed container for a few hours, or by adding a small pinch of salt for each quart of water boiled. When boiling is not practical, chemical disinfection should be used. Common household bleach contains a chlorine compound that will disinfect water. The treated water should be mixed thoroughly and allowed to stand, preferably covered, for 30 minutes. The water should have a slight chlorine odor; if not, repeat the dosage and allow the water to stand for an additional 15 minutes. If the treated water has too strong a chlorine taste, it can be made more pleasing by allowing the water to stand exposed to the air for a few hours or by pouring it from one clean container to another several times.

http://www.csgnetwork.com/h2oemergencypurifycalc.html

[lostnfound]

17. tennis shoes!! OMG! Not that!!

:eyes:

[Judi Lynn]

12. When there were civil rights marches in Birmingham, Alabama

Idiot locals used to race around regaling themselves with rumors that the civil rights marchers were fornicating right in the streets, and the streets had become littered with condoms.

I know this because an obnoxious, nosy, overbearing older relative of mine made a bee line for my elderly grandmother's house and gibbered until he was hoarse regularly, telling her how evil those lib'ruls and minorities were, how they were like wild animals, and the poor old woman was nearly besides herself with concern.

Gossiping and wanting to look down on others appears to be a perennial pursuit. It's the highest sport for those lacking skills.

[dasmarian]

19. !!!!!!! PRISONERS HAVE TAKEN HOSTAGES IN NOLA

I don't have enough psots to start my own thread. on ABC news:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/HurricaneKatrina/story?id=1081633&page=1


Aug. 30, 2005 — Inmates at a prison in hurricane-ravaged New Orleans have rioted, attempted to escape and are now holding hostages, a prison commissioner told ABC News affiliate WBRZ in Baton Rouge, La.

A deputy at Orleans Parish Prison, his wife and their four children have been taken hostage by rioting prisoners after riding out Hurricane Katrina inside the jail building, according to WBRZ.

Officials are expected to hold a press conference regarding the riots at 9 p.m. ET.

A woman interviewed by WBRZ said her son, a deputy at the prison whose family is among the hostages, told her that many of the prisoners have fashioned homemade weapons. Her son had brought his family there hoping they would be safe during the storm.

[Javaman]

20. Carjacking???? Where will they drive?????

[rodeodance]

31. they are saying the Nat Guard and police have control of Canal Street

now. cnn

[rodeodance]

34. Hundreds of people walking the highway with no where to go. No author-

ties around to tell them where to do. Elderly out in the hot sun.

[rodeodance]

35. FEMA not around, not assistance around. They are just drifting.

[rodeodance]

38. they were told to leave their hourse which were flooding!! But on one

told them where to go.

[rodeodance]

41. they were on the Interstate and many started to walk to DOME>

[rodeodance]

43. one one to pick these people up to take them places.

[rodeodance]

46. refugee situation--clothes on back with no where to go.

[rodeodance]

48. saying the water stincks already.

[rodeodance]

49. as water rises misery rises.

[rodeodance]

50. NO dodged the bullet yesterday--then the leevey broke and all holy

hell is breaking lose.

[rodeodance]

51. people are hungry, wet, hot and thirsty. these are ones that can walk

[ScreamingMeemie]

32. In times of stress, Civility=thin veneer.

Where are all the "thank God it wasn't so bad" people now?

[Rainscents]

57. I can't believe some DUer's attituded "this wasn't too bad".. At first MSM

was reporting, N O didn't get hit as hard and some people here bought into their shit.

Tell that to people who is suffering or dead right now.
It's hot, they're tired, their homes destroyed, no foods, no waters, sleepling on the roof of the house and or on the grounds, they have no jobs to go back to, etc...

[ultraist]

53. Too bad Bush cut billions of dollars to NOLA and shipped NG off to Iraq

I'm sure there would more order if NOLA had those billions * cut from their funding. They could have used the money for planning and hiring more staff.

Not to mention, having the 3,000 Nat'l guardsmen, who are now in Iraq, on the ground would have helped.

Once again, * has created a fucking mess!

[Name removed]

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