How do I respond to people who say something like this?

[thedailyshow]

"i read on some articles in the paper...internet...and watched a study on the human brain. homosexuality is a chemical imbalance. scientist tested 1,000 people and the test results came that 92% of people who are homosexual do have a different chemical imbalance. it doesn't make you less of a person or that you have a disorder. its just an imbalance.

its a proven fact gay ppl have a chemical imbalance in their brains. we are all in a way "bi" for the pure and basic fact that we can say one member of our same sex is pretty w/o being gay. but i mean not full bi but we still can consider girls pretty or not... not sure if that made ne sense. but neways the chemicals in our brain usually make us like the opposite sex more. but gay people have the imbalance that makes them like the same sex. its like animals... some animals are even gay because of this chemical imbalance."

This poster (not here) says that she's not homophobic, but what she said sounds condescending. Does anyone know anything about this study?

[Der Blaue Engel]

1. She sounds mind-numbingly stupid

Why bother?

[BlueIris]

16. My first response, too.

Run away.

[Guy Fawkes]

2. In reply:

Tell them,

"Dear sir/madam, you are full of shit. While the cause of homosexuality is still unknown, it may be in either the gene XQ28, which is found in gay men (but not straight men) or the size of the corpus collosum- the spongy part of the brain connecting the two hemispheres, which is bigger in gay men."

[Pallas180]

5. I suggest you tell this maron that Gay people are just as perfect as

straight people since God made them all.

That ought to shut her up.

[thedailyshow]

10. this person is a huge Catholic

and I'm planning to use that as a comeback. Thanks!

[Fleshdancer]

30. well there you have it....

IMO, the only thing worse than a bigot using the bible to justify hate is a bigot secretly using the bible but attempting to vaguely point to "scientific studies" to support their hate because they want to appear to have an actual argument among the intellectuals who don't buy into their dogma.

Just remember that bigots used so called "scientific studies" to prove that women were inferior to men. They used "scientific studies" to prove that blacks were inferior to whites. Now they're replaying the same old tired bullshit to discriminate against homosexuals.

[seabeyond]

9. corpus collosum

this is what i was trying to remember. i couldnt say the thing behind the ear, lol lol, no one would have a clue. also i read seems to come from mother genes and tends to be in boys the more boys a mother has.

whatever, neither sound nurture, sounds like nature to me. anyone going to question god making a mistake. oh ya, all the holier than thou god fearing fundies.

[swag]

3. First, indicate that you will not respond to an unsubstantiated assertion

about an allegedly half-remembered "study."

The person who asserted this thing to you has the burden of providing a source to you, some evidence that what s/he says actually has an actual source, let alone some basis in fact.

Once you have the "study," you can examine it for methodology (if any), bias, etc.

If your little friend can provide a source for his/her half-remembered claims, get back to us.

[tuvor]

7. Yeah. Always make them back it up.

Always. THEN, you worry about arguing.

[tuvor]

4. Who cares "why"? Consenting adults and their own business.

Good things to keep your nose out of.

[craigolemiss]

6. uhhhh

Well beer makes all the girls prettier at closing time. So gay men need to drink more beer?---hmm, I see a government grant coming.

Just a joke, ok---

[manic expression]

8. What makes something a "balance"

while other characteristics are "imbalances"?

Sure, thoughts are evident in chemical reactions, and so homosexuals would have different chemical reactions than bisexuals in certain aspects, but that is different, and not an IMbalance.

Eugenicist logic.

[SofaKingLiberal]

11. Ask them what

peer-reviewed medical journal this information came from.

I've read on the articles on the internet that say the Earth is only 5,000 years old.

[thedailyshow]

12. thanks, I'll do that!

[Demonaut]

13. just say "naw, the're just horny for same sex"

simple minds need simple answers

[MissMarple]

14. Well, is it an "imbalance" or a "difference"?

And no, I really don't know about any of this....however, as a mom person...I say don't take any of this as a true thing. It is all speculation. We are all human, we are all just folks, we all just want what everyone wants...love, acceptance, and family. And I don't think the medical community can come up with a better response than that.

:hugs:

And... just screw those intolerant ..err...whatever they are. :)

Guys...could we have a hand clasp smiley? I'm just asking.

[jobycom]

15. Freud considered homosexuality a mental disorder

The problem was, he also considered the female mind dysfunctional. The reason was that he used heterosexual males as the standard, and people were dysfunctional or imbalanced when they disagreed with his standard.

Most psychologists or psychoanalysts now would say that Freud was biased, not that homosexuality was a mental disorder. There was nothing clinical or objective to suggest that homosexuality was somehow defective. It was just different.

So assuming this study is true, and I doubt it, she would have to come up with some reason why this chemical "difference" was an "imbalance," rather than a simple variation. For instance, root beer isn't defective just because it is chemically different from Dr. Pepper. They are just different flavors. To suggest that a chemical difference is an imbalance reveals her bias, not any defect. It would make just as much sense to claim that this supposed "gay" chemical was the healthier one, and that non-gay people had the imbalance.

[Qibing Zero]

20. Personally I discounted anything freud said about sexuality after...

..reading the whole bit on women having a perminant case of penis-envy.

:eyes:

[thedailyshow]

24. yeah, that was so lame

[jobycom]

32. Well, obviously my point had little to do with Freud, but on the penis

envy, Freud may have been on to a genuine gender distinction, but he phrased it in terms of his male-centric mentality and caused all kinds of problems. (In his defence, he was inventing the field, so obviously he made a lot of mistakes). Most feminist criticism of Freud has tried to discredit him, but some of it has tried to redefine him in less mysogynist ways. Carol Gilligan claimed that he wasn't so much wrong on his penis envy and castration complex findings, as he was just biased. Freud argued that young boys, because they were raised by women, predominately, learned at some point that they had penises and their moms didn't, so they learned they had to be different from their primary caretaker. They became afraid, though, that their mothers could take away their penises. This led to a castration complex, which led to a greater sense of justice, out of fear of castration. For women, they never had this separation anxiety or castration complex, so, according to Freud, they never developed a sense of justice. To him, this was a defect in women. As they grew older, they developed a penis envy, though, wanting to be more like their fathers, though never separating from their mothers.

What Gilligan said was that her research in some ways supported Freud's basic findings, but he had put an unnecessary bias on his work by finding women's differences from men as defects. Her own research found what she called a "compassion complex," meaning that since women never had the separation fear nor castration complex that little boys had, they were more likely to bond with others, and see things from other people's perspective. People weren't adversaries to them.

Of course, all of this is generalized, and it depends on cultural ideas of raising children. Nowadays men are more involved in raising kids, usually, so these complexes aren't as clear-cut as they were before. And it's all a lot more complicated than I just explained. And I've probably butchered the arguments, anyway. So I'll go away now. :-)

[BigBearJohn]

17. Suck one dick and they say you're unbalanced. Sheesh!

Where do I get some of those chemicals anyway?


:sarcasm:

[Virginian]

18. I think she is trying to describe a study

That tested the pleasure centers in the brain based on sexual orientation. I saw it on the discovery channel, I think.

[BattyDem]

25. I have a link to the University of Chicago study in my post below

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4520683&mesg_id=4520917

It sounds like she heard a distorted version of the results.

[thedailyshow]

27. yeah, this girl is a major fundie catholic

[rasputin1952]

19. I haven't heard of this study, and I have no idea why some people

are homosexual, and to be honest, to me, it makes little difference.

Fact of the matter is, some people are drawn to the same sex; does that make them 'less' than anyone else, of course not. I have a few gay acquaintances, and I respect them as much as I respect my fellow heterosexaul acquaintances. Far too many people are hung up on this whole thing. What real difference does it make in the Grand Scheme of things?

Gays are not some form of insidious part of humanity, they are just as human and deserve the same benefits in our society as a straight man or woman. I find it incredible that so many people are trying so desperately to find ways of ostracizing individuals because of a lifestyle they find disturbing. How does what consenting adults do become the business of others anyway.

Your friend sounds like he/she needs to find a hobby that does not try to justify their own prejudice and bigotry....:)

[rasputin1952]

21. I haven't heard of this study, and I have no idea why some people

Sorry, multiple post....:(

[rasputin1952]

22. I haven't heard of this study, and I have no idea why some people

Sorry....multiple post....:(

[BattyDem]

23. Any person who feels the need to say, "I'm not homophobic" usually is

:eyes:

There are gay animals - Biological Exuberance is a great book on the subject - but I think your friend is a bit confused about the chemical imbalance thing.

The info that I'm familiar with is that homosexuals have a different chemical reaction in the hypothalamus than heterosexuals - that's not suggesting that there's an imbalance, but a structural difference between homosexual and heterosexual brains which cause them to react differently and produce different serotonin levels. That does not mean that serotonin levels CAUSE the homosexuality, but that they are a result of it.

More info here:
Sexual Orientation Among Men Is Connected With Brain Metabolism, University Of Chicago Research Shows

Researchers at the University of Chicago have shown for the first time that strong sexual orientation among men appears to be connected with brain metabolism.

"We know from studies on rats that the hypothalamus is strongly connected with sexual activity. We also know from those studies that the neurotransmitter serotonin is associated with sexual behavior and arousal," Moltz said.

The research team theorized that hypothalamic differences may reflect biological differences between men with strong sexual orientation differences.

[JohnLocke]

26. "Ah. The prestigious New England Journal of the Internet."

Works every time.

[NMMNG]

28. "Back it up dear"

Anyone could easily say they read/heard/saw anything, but it is harder to actually produce evidence of such claims, particularly from reputable sources. If her "sources" include Paul Cameron or anyone of his ilk don't bother.


And the "I'm not homophobic" deal...it's just as convincing as "I'm not racist--I have black friends".

[fujiyama]

29. That person may or may not be homophobic

It's very possible she isn't because she's trying to point out that homosexuality is a matter of biology rather than choice. Either way she doesn't sound like she's explaining herself very well and it really shouldn't matter. People should be treated equally regardless of their sexual orientation.

Ask her first of all to give a link to the study or say where it was published. Bob Jones school of mental health doesn't count. Only then can this be be responded to. I do know that homosexuality has been observed in other animals as well (there was an article on this in the NYT a while back), but I don't remember what they said about any "chemical inblalances" in other homosexual animals though (I recall they observed homosexual 'behavior' in penguins and some other animals at a zoo).

[fob]

31. Ask her this. If God created Adam and Eve and they were the first

people and they had kids (two sons, right?) then where did all the OTHER people come from? Did Eve have sex with her sons to create other women so her sons could then have wives and children, although any children between Eve and her son would be the son's daughter too. So it's all quite a mess. I wonder her thoughts on the subject.

edit: and make sure you make an effort to use "neway" as a substitute for "anyway" in your reply.

[MercutioATC]

33. If I'm not mistaken, it's not an "imbalance", but a difference.

Men and women have differences in brain chemistry, too.

Logically, this would mean that women (or men) have an "imbalance" also.

[theHandpuppet]

34. Yeah, and all males are the result of a defective chromosome

Should they all apply for sex change operations tomorrow so they can be normal girls?
:sarcasm: