Please explain why gas has always been more expensive in Europe than US.

[hang a left]

When I was complaining about the 3.10 gas price to my husband. He made the statement "well that is how much it has been in Europe forever." If you couldn't tell he likes to argue with me. I replied to him that Europe wasn't as dependent on gasoline like we are. But I sure would like to have a few more facts to spew at his cocky butt. If you could help a liberal out, it would be appreciated.

Thanks

[speedoo]

1. Higher taxes on fuel, for the most part I believe.

That was the answer years ago, and I assume that is still the case.

[Coastie for Truth]

2. Taxes

They have high gasoline taxes to "ration" gasoline.

[MildyRules]

8. They don't ration it

They have higher taxes to help offset the costs of public transportation etc. They can use ALL the gasoline they can pay for.

[Coastie for Truth]

13. I was using "ration" in the "Econ 102" sense

to "limit" consumption by setting a high pump price.

[MildyRules]

16. They don't really limit

consumption either, they just (in most places) offer good public transportation. I lived in Stuttgart Germany for three years and in Newmarket England for five; trust me, one can get all the gas one can afford. They aren't trying to LIMIT consumption, they are trying to use the taxes to pay for other things.

[ret5hd]

3. a lot of the cost of gas is hidden...

in our military budget. true cost is probably about $7.00 a gallon. think on it a while.

[Coastie for Truth]

9. If you figure the whole cost of Iraq, Afghanistan, Centcom

(now paid through income taxes) - and swithed it to a gasoline tax - we would be aover $5/gallon, too.

[MildyRules]

11. Why don't you explain

it? Because that makes NO sense.

[Coastie for Truth]

22. Did the published arithmetic

(Back of the envelope estimate)

Annualized Cost of Military Ops in ME
Gallons of Gas Consumed in US

or

$350 Billion Per Year
100 Billions Gallons Per Year

= $3.50/gallon

Remember, that's a back of the envelope calculation based on EIA numbers for consumption and NYT and WP and DU estimates of the costs of our military mis-adventures.

[ret5hd]

32. don't forget to add in our adventures in brazil, venezuela, etc...

according to this graph, we spend more on the military than the next 14 countries (listed below) combined...and this was a 2004 estimate:
China
Japan
France
U.K.
Germany
Italy
Saudi Arabia
India
Australia
South Korea
Turkey
Brazil
Spain
Canada

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/mil_exp_dol_fig

[MildyRules]

33. Of course

one has nothing to do with the other, but that's ok.

[greenman3610]

4. hi taxes on gas in Europe

Hi taxes on car ownership as well.

[ramapo]

5. Taxes for one

My understanding is that gas taxes are much higher. What's been the effect of these "onorous" taxes? Smaller, much more efficient vehicles, and a rail system that puts the United States to shame.

[hobbit709]

6. Taxes

In Europe it's always been taxed at a much higher rate than here. That's one of the reasons their cars are more fuel efficient than here.

[back2basics909]

23. Exactly..

It was done to

A) Raise money for roads etc. In England the money no longer goes just on roads, it goes all over.
B) To put preasure on consumers and companies to increase fuel efficiencey. Which it did, very well.

[SlipperySlope]

7. Gas is NOT more expensive in Europe

Gas is NOT more expensive in Europe.

Gas TAXES are more expensive in Europe.

The price of the underlying product is roughly the same. Their governments just squeeze them harder.

[mmonk]

10. For instance,

England has taxed gas to pay for it's healthcare system.

[Kolesar]

12. They imposed quite-high taxes to encourage conservation

In Britain, they have a variable tax that decreases as the price of oil increases. That way, low income people don't get extra high prices they did not plan for. Note that the price that Europe pays for crude oil is no higher than what the US pays, despite the US having significant oil production--oil has a global market price.

[liam_laddie]

28. Good answers above

EU people pay more because "optional" consumables, like
fuel for motorcars, are taxed at high (relative) rates to discourage
consumption. The "have mores" there can cruise their Audi's, Benzes and Bimmers at 200km/hr (120mph) on the M routes because they can afford it, like the SUVbots here. The "haves and "don't haves" use the aforementioned public transport systems which are supported by those higher taxes.

Here the major portion (I think) of the federal fuel tax buys more highways and road maintenance, which "enables" more driving...a vicious circle. In the US, driving distances are certainly longer than the relatively more compact EU, and the interstates support our quite efficient distribution system, but diverting some of that tax to develop much more efficient vehicle powerplants would have been enlightened policy three decades ago. BTW,
hydrogen is NOT the answer IMHO...too risky and expensive to handle, much less produce, a straw man from our oil corpo-fascists.

I rented a two-liter (about 125 cu.in.) turbo-Diesel Golf wagon in 2000, and in two weeks, 1400 miles of mostly fast driving, I averaged 41 miles/gallon. The actual cost per mile driven, currency-adjusted, related to about 20 mpg here. So even though fuel is more at the pump, the cost/mile (for my 1989 Ford here) was essentially a wash.

At purchase, Diesel cars are sales-taxed at a higher rate than petrol-engined cars, but Diesel fuel is cheaper at the pump. It would seem that a turbo-Diesel / battery hybrid would be a near-term ideal auto powerplant. The gummints get their pound
or kilo of flesh one way or another.
Yup, the price for crude oil is essentially the same world-wide.

[Kolesar]

31. A bit of transportation dollars go to pedestrian &bicycle routes

They build a few rail trails that cost ten million dollars. The big money goes to highways: Ohio spent $700 million on an interchange and express lanes for I-271. I think "The Big Dig" in Boston was on the order of $5 Billion.

On the other hand, the morons running Ohio government moved the highway patrol budget from highway/gasoline funds to the general funds a few years ago.

[Ioo]

14. Huge taxes to pay for Mass Transit

They use the cash to pay for a world class mass transit system.

[TheDebbieDee]

20. You're right! That tax money funds mass transit, and anyone

who has lived in Europe knows that there probably won't be any place to park your car when you get where you are going anyway.

Europeans don't bulldoze acres of wooded areas to create car parks or parking lots like we do here in America.

Anyway, the high fuel tax discourages people from driving their cars.

Also, Europeans buy gasoline by the liter (almost equivalent to a quart) in case no one has mentioned that upthread.

[info being]

29. The beauty is...

Higher fuel prices make mass transit more viable economically as an alternative to driving. Also, Europeans have adjusted by buying much more fuel efficient cars...so the policy is a tremendous success.

I live in Europe by the way and support high gas tax.

[etherealtruth]

15. in a sense we do "pay" a higher price than what is reflected at the pump

We have maintained a large military presence in the gulf at the cost of billions (tax payer $$) ... we have had ARTIFICIALLY low prices at the PUMP.

Unlike the Europeans, we have done nothing to utilize other technologies or to use only the most fuel efficient vehicles. In most areas of the USA public transit is non-existent ... Our low gas prices, in the end, may cost us our way of life. Europe's high fuel costs forced them to take wise steps...

[nonconformist]

17. I believe they tax it higher to provide healthcare to their citizens.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

I would personally welcome that.

[Taxloss]

25. In Britain, we do not hypothecate. The revenue goes into the Exchequer,

and from there it is distributed out. So it could pay for anything - hospitals, nuclear subs, Tony's salary, schools, paperclips, public transport. It's not earmarked for anything.

[growlypants]

18. it's apparently $6.50 in england (and their money is worth MORE than ours)

In England, unlike here in greedy, wasteful, outformyself America, they recognized the need for fuel efficient cars. Most people in England drive those little, super fuel effecient cars. Hence, they dont NEED to fill up every WEEK or day like here in this country. Their mass transit system is much better run then here in America too. Most people actually rely on mass transit to get around. They ALSO ride bikes alot. Only here do we feel it necessary to literally drive across the street. Americans are too lazy and out of shape to actually be expected to exert one iota of energy. We have been spoiled by relatively cheap gas prices for years, and now we're paying the price. When the gas crisis of the 70's occured, the car companies should have IMMEDIATELY started working on more fuel efficient cars and the chemical companies (backed by the government) should have presses for OTHER forms of energy to alleviate our pathetic reliance on oil. BUt what did said companies do???? Zip, zero, nada. NOTHING. They threw all their time in energy into producing these HUGE SUV's (which I have never understood. Unless your are physically GOING OFF ROAD somewhere, why do you need this gas wasting behemouth to chauffer your two kids to school and to haul your dumb ass to the mall). This is our fault. Like the old adage says.......you made you bed, now you lie in it.

[magellan]

19. Well, I know in the UK around 70% of the price is TAX

17.5% is VAT (value added tax or "national tax"), the rest is Fuel Duty, first applied by the conservatives to encourage people to stop using their cars and to generate more government revenue. It's done ONE of those things well.

I know news anchors like to make people feel better by comparing the price of gas here to Europe, but using a basic currency conversion tells you nothing. To be a true comparison you also need to look at what the economy is like in the other country -- GDP, incomes, taxes, benefits, etc. Not knowing these things makes any comparison to the US meaningless.

[johannes1984]

21. in the continent we have high taxes

Gasoline is taxed as a luxury product , and henceforth it's about 5 euro's a gallon or 7 dollars .But the cities are much smaller in the sense that there is a higher density , people still live in the city , we don't have a sprawling suburbia .We do have randcities ,,roughly translated edgecities , but they have a perfect PT system with trams and busses that connects them to the main cities ....and those randcities are more like what villages are to the US .

the state decides the taxation on how harmfull the consequences of usage or presence are on society .

Which is added to the burden of social sec. taxes and welfare)welbeing taxes being put on the companies .not the employees.This gives us a disadvantage in the global marketplace ...but fuck that for now , is the common sentiment .

peace out

[PatsFan2004]

24. I spent some time in Europe and found out

that the most desired commodities have high taxes imposed because it is easier in Europe to obtain government levies in that manner than via the income tax. For many Europeans, it is a "game" to outfox the tax collector.

In the USA, we have a high percentage of tax payers who report and pay what they owe in terms of income taxes. That was not the case in Europe when I was there in the 70's.

So coffee, gasoline, and other highly desired items have "sales" taxes affixed to them. Some countries even have toll charges based upon the size of the automobile engine.

[SoCalDem]

26. Perhaps they really just don;t want to be gridlocked with cars

and instead want people to use the public transportation that seems to be everywhere and efficient and clean and reasonably priced..

Places are closer together there, and if one does have a car, it's reserved for short personal trips..and the cost of gas is not a big deal.. gas is not a vital part of their family budget

and when people do have to buy gas, they can budget for it because they are not laready paying for huge medical insuarnce bills or medical bills (THEIR governments provide medical care)

just a few reasons.

[Taxloss]

27. Taxation, pure and simple. It's a divisive issue here in Britain.

Although the government uses taxation as a throttle to control petrol prices and protect the vulnerable, prices are very high. We have what is called the "roads lobby", controlled by hauliers, oil companies and private motoring organisations which is a huge influence over public policy - unfairly - and demands lower prices. Back in 2000 or 2001 they even precipitated a national petrol crisis by blockaded refineries. On the other side is an equally vociferous but far less influential environmental and social lobby that calls for the raising of petrol duty. I support the latter.

The VAT and duty on petrol is not hypothecated - that is, is goes into the Exchequer and is not earmarked for any particular area of spending.

[many a good man]

30. Because they've always been smarter!

And their politicians aren't owned by the oil and car companies!

Hi prices discourage private automobile ownership and the surplus revenue goes into making the country more liveable. Instead of pollution and sprawl, they improve public transportation and community amenities.

Instead of having great big houses way out in the burbs, many Europeans live in smaller houses or condos close in to the city. Since they don't have yards, the public spaces become their "yard." It encourages a sense of community and public spirit. Cities are designed for people, not for cars. They will be able to weather the coming gas shortages far better than we Americans with "car culture."

The tax code actively discourages the car culture. In Spain, tax on new cars is 100% the purchase price! Gas is about $5 a gallon. You must be at least 18 yrs old to get a drivers license and it costs about a thousand bucks. You would think poorer people would be outraged by this but they support it because its better for the environment and the taxes improve things for everybody.