New Orleans Shouldn't Be "Given Back To Nature"

[DemocratSinceBirth]

The greater New Orleans area is home to over one million people and is a a popular tourist and convention destination....

Those people deserve an opportunity to rebuild their city ....


A levee system that can withstand a cat five storm can be built for less than $15 billion dollars... A nation with a budget of
$2.338 trillion dollars can afford it...


A flash storm devastated the Phillipines and killed four hundred people... Should we give the Phillipines back to nature?

An earthquake killed 60,000 people in Iran... Show we give Iran back to nature?


I could go on... And even if you say it's not up to us to give the Phillipines and Iran back to nature I don't see their citizens doing that either...

[FloridaPat]

1. They would have had that if * hadn't taken money out of the

Army Corp of Engineers pockets. We couldn't even afford the last three years because Halliburton and Berchtel needed the money much more in Iraq for - what are they doing over there?

[Hobarticus]

3. Pick a card, any card...

The justification for the war changes daily, you might as well take a shot at it!

[mattclearing]

2. That budget is in deficit, though.

Cleaning up New Orleans will take years. Rebuilding will take longer.

I'm sure a no-bid contract can be given to KBR to take care of it, but I doubt it will result in a new city.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

4. Well

Just because Bush is a miscreant I'm not willing to throw my hands up in the air and leave the residents of New Orleans to their fate...

[mattclearing]

5. I'm sure they are re-evaluating the wisdom of life below sea level, though

nt

[HadItUpToHere]

15. especially in the not-too-distant future...

as ocean levels rise and warm due to global warming and glacial melt- hurricanes will only get worse- rather than sink more money into this pit, the city should be moved to higher ground.

[stubtoe]

27. Exactly.

To build/rebuild at an elevation below sea level is to invite more catastrophes in the face of global climate change. Might as well build underwater cities, then, for all the sense that makes.

[jim3775]

6. Agreed, we should do everything we can to rebuild this historic city

Was Chicago "given back to nature" after the fire?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

9. I'll Bet If You Compiled A List Of Areas Some DUers Think Are

Uninhabitable We'd All Be Living In Manhattan...

[charlie]

13. Oh, knock it off

That's bullshit and you know it. I don't care how many times you've been stung by Fuck the South posts, no DUer is going to oppose the rehabilitation of New Orleans merely because he thinks a southern city shouldn't exist.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

14. What's This?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4523776&mesg_id=4523776


And I am not attributing it to an anti-south bias...


This whole "appeasing nature" argument strikes me as slightly unhinged... I think you should be prudent but to appease nature we would all have to go back about four centuries, live in log cabins, ride horses, and gather our own food....

[HadItUpToHere]

20. it's only going to get worse from here for New Orleans-

as glaciers and ice caps melt, ocean levels will be rising...as the oceans and atmosphere continue to warm- the hurricanes will get bigger, stronger, and more numerous.
It might be the prudent choice to rebuild the city in a different location.

[charlie]

24. That's a practical argument

Questioning the ressurection of a city on a plot that has been demonstrated to be imminently vulnerable without extraordinary protections is not a demonstration of a DU preference for the mecca of Manhattan.

[ripple]

7. Thank you for saying that

These United States wouldn't be the same without The Big Easy. I vacationed there for the first time in April and fell instantly in love with the slow-paced charm of NO.

I tend to think that those who are talking about not rebuilding haven't been there and therefore, have no idea about what they THINK we can so easily write off.

[shance]

8. Yes this sounds shady. Especially with an Administration like this.

Especially with New Orleans being the third largest importer of oil.

Could someone be looking to hold New Orleans hostage?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

11. Unfortunately The Sentiment Was Born Here...

It's amazing how some people typing in their air conditioned homes or apartments on their nice computers want to give "New Orleans" back to nature like it was some kind of ritualistic sacrifice to the goddess of nature

[K-W]

17. I think the overreaction to a that post is amazing. EOM

[DemocratSinceBirth]

29. There Was A Poll And Over 60% Of DUers Wanted To Give N O Back To Nature..

nt

[K-W]

31. Do you have a link?

I couldnt find it with the search function.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

35. Keep Reading This Thread...

Now folks are saying this will be good
practice for when we have to relocate the residents of south Florida....


If this is liberalism I'm about to shoot myself...

[Touchdown]

18. Interesting you say that.

Because it was the inmvention of air conditioning that allowed New Orleans to become the size it has since the 40s. Much of the South's population growth in the last century is due to the invention of air conditioning.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

26. I Live In Central Florida...

It's 97 degrees now .... Without air condition I would move tomorrow nothwithstanding the fact that I have a family, a business, and roots here...


By that definition all the residents of warm climates are living in defiance of nature...

[Touchdown]

39. I wasn't disputing your point.

I was just stating a less than interesting factoid.

But, since you brought it up, building a boat, house, clothes, or car, not to mention processing grain and baking bread is also in defiance of nature, if you wish to carry this argument a logical conclusion. Without air conditioning, there would be a much smaller population in the south than there is, since there was a population there before AC, so your statement about all southern residents isn't entirely true. You'd just be able to drive in Orlando without traffic jams and turnpikes.:hi:

[shance]

10. New Orleans - take your city back!!

Call any and all officials you know. Do whatever you can. It's your city.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. We Aren't Talking About A Trillion Dollars...

We spent 300 billion on a nonsensical and destructive invasion...

I'll bet with the private insurance dollars that are to arrive you could do it for forty billion dollars or so...

Allow gambling in New Orleans and it will become an even bigger tourist attraction... They already have enough legalized vice there....

[ripple]

44. gambling is already legal in New Orleans

There was a Harrah's there.

Jeez, it feels weird to use the past tense.

[growlypants]

16. How are they going to get all that water out of there???? Its below

sea level! Pumps wont work on such a massive quantity of water like they are experiencing. It wont recede, because there is nowhere for it to recede too! Its going to get poisonous....fast.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

It's Going To Take Time And Require A Hurculean Effort...

America needs a great public works project...

I'll bet alot of those looters who were stealing luxury items would rather have a job to pay for them and the pride that comes with it...

[HadItUpToHere]

22. rebuilding the city somewhere else-

would make a good public works project too.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

28. How Can You Move A Million People From Place A To Place B

unless you're Andrew Jackson?

[HadItUpToHere]

30. that's a question that's going to need to be answered at some point-

as the oceans rise, much of southern florida might become uninhabitable...we might as well start getting some practice at mass migration.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

37. If People Leave An Area Because It's Vulnerable

we will have to rearrange the planet...

[HadItUpToHere]

38. now you're getting the idea...

as climates change, and landscapes are altered by natural forces and/or man-made consequences- whole populations will have to be re-located.

compare it to chernobyl- that was a large city, and it won't be re-habitable for a LONG time.

[jayfish]

33. They'll Already Be Gone.

FEMA (or some other federal agency) should set up a relocation assistance program. Such a program could include income based low to no cost mortgages, property replacement grants and construction grants. I'm sure it would cost less than rebuilding NO now and in the future.

Jay

[growlypants]

34. Bush will simply enlist them in the military. and move them from

point A) New orleans, to point B) Iraq/Iran

[growlypants]

32. yes, but HOW ARE THEY GOING TO GET ALL THAT WATER

out of there~!!! we're not talking a few inches of water, or even a few feet, we're talking 20+ feet of water!!!!!! And over MILES, not just a few blocks. Like I said, its going to be a horrible toxic mess. Malaria, west nile, cholera, disintery, salmonella, E-coli, etc etc etc. Its a complete disaster. what a shame.

[Toots]

19. How about the Titanic should we give it back to nature?

I have a hunch it won't be our choice.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

21. The Titanic Was A Ship Not A Major Metropolitan Area...

And it wasn't as much nature that doomed them as human error...

[G_j]

23. I wish they could somehow raise it up a bit higher

but I sort of doubt that is possible.

Global warming will be raising sea levels.

[tx_dem41]

25. Nominated....and thanks, DSB n/t

[GreenArrow]

36. "N.O. given back to nature"?

Sooner or later, Nature will TAKE it. Nothing lasts forever.

[Beelzebud]

40. Thank you for rationally saying, what I've been irrationally

yelling about.

[LeftyMom]

41. At one time Sacramento was nearly abandoned due to flooding and disease

The street level near the river was raised ten feet instead. I'm sure it was a hell of a task without earthmovers, but I'm glad it was done. I love my city. :)

If Sacramentans could raise the street level in eighteensomething to combat flooding, surely New Orleans can be drained and raised with modern technology. The question is, should it be, or should the rebuilding begin in a safer spot? Can the current site be made safe enough or buildings constructed that are better suited to it's dangers? That question should be answered by the residents, after the damage is assessed by experts and options for going forward and resolving the problem can be debated.

[soboko]

42. It's not just that the city's below sea level

The lake and river that surround it (and threaten it) on two sides are above sea level. And not only that, the city is sinking, too. Even without the threat of global warming and rising sea levels, the subsidence is a real problem. And after this storm, how many people are really going to want to move back? When it could happen again in a month for all we know? Hurricane season in NO would always be a time of fear.

Here's a thought - Detroit has lost over 300000 people since 1980. St. Louis has also lost a lot of its population. There's a lot of housing in these cities that sits abandoned, some of which needs to be torn down but some of which could probably be restored. I'm sure these cities could take in the extra residents and massive building projects would create lots of jobs and urban renewal.

This would be much better use of funds than spending huge amounts of money rebuilding a city that will probably be uninhabitable in 100 years. And bringing jazz and Mardi Gras to Motown... imagine the possibilities.

[GoneOffShore]

43. Of course it should be rebuilt

I wouldn't want to live there, but that's my choice.
If you build below sea level or on a flood plain, there's times when, even with the best planning, you get flooded out.
If you live next to an active volcano, you worry about fire-ry rain.
If you live on a fault line, earthquakes happen.
As a species we do pick some pretty dangerous places to put our habitation. But when you think about it, just about any place can be dangerous at sometime.
Some of us choose not to live in the more obviously dangerous places, while others do. I wouldn't want to tell someone that they shouldn't live there or that because of their choice they shouldn't expect sympathy and help when disasters happen.
(Sidebar - though I do wish that we would leave some places untouched - so that the footprint of the human isn't on every square millimeter of this poor damned planet)