ACLU Open Hearing and "Hesitant Judge" articles on new abuse photos:

[cyberpj]

snips from 2 articles follow:

snip 1...
Included in papers unsealed today is General Myers' argument that the photographs must be withheld because "our democratic idea of public accountability -- the airing of misdeeds by government officials and employees in order to hold government to the highest standards of conduct -- is an idea that is misunderstood in other parts of the world."

In response, the ACLU's Romero said the government's conduct in this litigation "suggests that some senior U.S. officials are merely trying to cover up the failure of the military leadership. Indeed, these images are a critical component in the quest for public accountability."

The legal papers released today also demonstrate the government's continued failure to acknowledge that abuse of prisoners was widespread, and not limited to Abu Ghraib.

For instance, General Myers' declaration states that the images at issue concern the "isolated activity by one military unit," and could be used to characterize detainee abuse as being "more widespread than it was." Documents obtained as a result of the ACLU's FOIA request provide overwhelming evidence that the abuse of prisoners was not confined to Abu Ghraib but was widespread and systemic. These documents are available online at www.aclu.org/torturefoia.

A web feature about the case, including PDFs of the documents released by the government, is online at www.aclu.org/torturefoia.

The newly released version of a declaration by Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Richard Myers, is available online at: www.aclu.org/International/International.cfm?ID=18978&c=36
and www.aclu.org/International/International.cfm?ID=18975&c=36.

The newly released version of a declaration by former Deputy Assistant Secretary and Coordinator for Iraq in the Bureau of Near Eastern Affairs of the Department of State Ronald Schlicher declaration is available online at: www.aclu.org/International/International.cfm?ID=18968&c=36.

snip2...
N.Y. Judge Hesitant on Abu Ghraib Photos
Wednesday August 31, 2005 1:46 AM
By LARRY NEUMEISTER
Associated Press Writer

NEW YORK (AP) - A judge said Tuesday he was hesitant to release pictures and videotapes of detainee abuse at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison while top government officials insisted that deaths could result.

U.S. District Judge Alvin K. Hellerstein commented as he listened to Manhattan's top government lawyer and an attorney for the American Civil Liberties Union, which was seeking release of the pictures.

The judge questioned whether he could disregard arguments by Gen. Richard B. Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, who has warned that releasing the photos would aid al-Qaida recruitment, weaken the Afghan and Iraqi governments and incite riots against U.S. troops.

``How can I ignore the expert opinion of General Myers, who is concerned with the safety of his troops?'' the judge asked. ``I can't substitute my opinion for the opinion of General Myers.''

(Note: So it's official now? The Pentagon will issue judicial opinions.)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-5244423,00.html

[whistle]

1. Cover up, the pictures should be released

[uppityperson]

2. Release the photos. "accountability misunderstood"?

Why should you follow the opinion of people in charge of the abuses? They need to be released. Now.

General Myers also argues that "the democratic idea of public accountability... is misunderstood in other parts of the world."

"Accountability isn't 'misunderstood' by the world, it's misunderstood by the Bush administration and it hasn't happened. That's why the American public has a right to see these images for itself," said Anthony D. Romero, Executive Director of the ACLU. "Instead of hiding evidence of the military's misconduct and failure of leadership from the public, the government should appoint an independent counsel to uncover the full truth about the extent of the abuse and who is responsible."

[cyberpj]

5. Bravo Romero!

"Accountability isn't 'misunderstood' by the world, it's misunderstood by the Bush administration" GO ROMERO!

Wish I had been there.

[Hissyspit]

3. "Our airing of misdeeds/accountability" misunderstood in other parts...

of the world?

SO F*CKING WHAT??!!

All of a sudden NOW we're running our Constitution based on what other governments and countries think?

[cyberpj]

11. Only when it's serves whatever purpose they need to serve. nt.

[Hissyspit]

4. Put this on the Greatest page please.

They kept up with the delay/obstruction tactics in hope of finding a goofball judge and it looks like they've found one. The photos, etc. must be released.

[cyberpj]

15. kick - trying to keep it front and center but today's a busy day here...

thanks Hissyspit - Love, love, love the cartoon panel use!

[Poll_Blind]

6. That judge needs to meet with some holocaust survivors...

Let him speak with them for an hour or two about the importance of bringing systematic atrocities to the attention of the public. On a more gutteral note, fuck that judge's shitty opinion right in the goat ass. This is bullshit.

PB

[cyberpj]

9. Excellent point. Should we start a letter-writing campaign?

Let him hear some of OUR opinions?

Hon. Alvin K. HELLERSTEIN
United States District Judge

Daniel Patrick Moynihan United States Courthouse
500 Pearl Street, Room 1050
New York, New York 10007-1312
[phone]

Courtroom 14D
Deputy [phone]

Individual Practices - 8/29/05

http://www.nysd.uscourts.gov/judges/USDJ/hellerstein.htm

[Joanne98]

16. Good idea! If the world had not seen those pictures, they wouldn't believe

It even happened. The judge needs to think of the future.

[Nikki Stone 1]

7. kicked and nominated

.

[katinmn]

8. I thought judges were supposed to rule on law, not opinions

It looks like they got to the judge.

[cyberpj]

10. GIVE HELLERSTEIN YOUR VERY OWN OPINION, HERE:

Let him hear some of OUR opinions?

Hon. Alvin K. HELLERSTEIN
United States District Judge

Daniel Patrick Moynihan United States Courthouse
500 Pearl Street, Room 1050
New York, New York 10007-1312
[phone]

Courtroom 14D
Deputy [phone]

Individual Practices - 8/29/05

http://www.nysd.uscourts.gov/judges/USDJ/hellerstein.htm

[Gregorian]

12. PLEASE FAX YOUR STATEMENTS TO THE JUDGE- FAX NUMBER HERE.

Judge Alvin K. Hellerstein's FAX [phone]



I just got off the phone with the judge's office secretary. She was very receptive, and made it clear they were willing to look at comments from the public. She did not know when the ruling would be decided.
I am hoping we can use this thread to formulate a knowledgable collection of thoughts and facts that might help for a more powerful fax than what I might have to send.


Things I have seen on DU-

-Separation of Powers
-Coverup using General Meyers
-We know the photos are more severe than what has already been leaked. We essentially already know, without the release of photos. It can only make things worse to try and hide the truth. Iraqis certainly know the extent. So this is at best, a way to keep Americans from seeing the truth.

[cyberpj]

14. FAXING IS A GREAT IDEA - FASTER TOO - Thanks Gregorian

I liked this one:

Poll_Blind (1000+ posts) Wed Aug-31-05 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
6. That judge needs to meet with some holocaust survivors...
Let him speak with them for an hour or two about the importance of bringing systematic atrocities to the attention of the public.

[Gregorian]

17. They are ONLY accepting faxed communication.

I sent mine in. But it's going to take our brigade of monkeys to get a couple of cogent responses. But then, if the judge is a republican, then we can essentially forget about it.

[cyberpj]

19. Tx. Sent mine. nt.

[inchhigh]

13. How Indeed.

"``How can I ignore the expert opinion of General Myers, who is concerned with the safety of his troops?'' the judge asked. ``I can't substitute my opinion for the opinion of General Myers.''"

"How can I ignore the expert opinion of General Myers,?"

"How can I ignore the expert opinion of General Myers,?"

"How can I ignore the expert opinion of General Myers,?"

By simply remembering that YOU are a Judge and HE is the guilty party.



Why can I never get a Judge like this when I'm in traffic court?

[Mabus]

18. I think that's stretching "judicial notice" to its fullest extreme

Judicial Notice is a rule in the law of evidence that allows a fact to be introduced into evidence if the truth of that fact is so notorious or well known that it cannot be refuted. This is done upon the request of the party seeking to have the fact at issue determined by the court. Matters admitted under judicial notice are accepted without being formally introduced by a witness or other rule of evidence, and even if one party wishes to lead evidence to the contrary.

For example, in an insurance claim for spoiled food from the August 14, 2003 blackout in north-east North America, the plaintiff would not be required to call witnesses to prove that there was no way to get power to run their freezers during the period in question. source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_notice

The judge is supposed to rule on the issues presented in accordance with the law. He can take into consideration what a witness says but he should never let a witness's opinion overrule the law.