The true tragedy of the looting

[eyepaddle]

Edited for a more accurate title

And I hesitate to add fuel to the fire of nerves scraped raw by this tragedy and misery in America's Gulf coast--particularly New Orleans.

I posted this last night, but it was buried in a thread. I'm not sure of the propriety of copying and pasting my own post, but a few DUers have suggested I do this, so without and edits from last night:

This represents a breakdown of society

and no, not from personal failings (at least not in most cases) but a breakdown nonetheless.

It starts with most people only grabbing necessities (hell, I'd likely do that myself--we all would in similarly desperate circumstances--or at least understand why) but somebody will always sooner or later realize that order is gone and no ONE is there to stop them and they go farther. A recent thread had links describing theft and murder in London during the Blitz, check out what happened in Bosnia during its civil war (likely any civil war--but that's the one I am most familiar with. When people find themselves with instant unchecked power (like a strong person in an environment of anarchy) they almost never use it benevolently.

It goes to the hunter gatherer mentality "If I don't grab it now, somebody else will--I'll probably need it soon--I'd better get it and the flood begins. WItness the Wal Mart giveaway that turned into a riot with police taking part.

In a disaster what you need is a sense of community and teamwork--not an "every man for himself" environment. This is why authorities ALWAYS first secure the scene (impose order)and THEN deal with the catastrophe.

I'm not gonna engage in some internet flame-fest and pop off about looters being scum (or modern day Robin Hoods for that matter) who can say? Most of them are just folks, some good, some bad--however an air of complete lawlessness must be avoided or the weak WILL be preyed upon.

It's all pretty much symptomatic of insufficient resources. If there were enough Nat'l Guard and Police around to control the situation, people probably wouldn't feel like the either could 1) get away with anything they want, or 2) they have to do whatever they can to survive. If there are that many responders around help is clearly on the way and option 2 is unneccessary and option 1 impossible.

That's enough for now.

[JAbuchan08]

1. "This represents a breakdown of society"

I agree, and I don't mean to be an apologist for looting, but I tend to place blame for the "breakdown of society" on the shoulders of those who should be maintaining order. I blame the poor disaster response/relief infrastructure and by extension the Bush administration, the Republican party platform and their "individuals before civilization" philosophy.
I won't praise the looters as heroes, but they're in an awfully tough situation and they are after all human so I won't blame them. Its not like the looters exist in a vacuum after all.

[dmkinsey]

3. Vey good

Both of these posts are right on the mark.

I hope the Gulf Coast doesn't turn into scenes from Mad Max,various gangs of looters shooting it out woth each other.

[formernaderite]

4. Exactly...

the mayors of these cities should have ordered the police to manage this better. Unfortunately allowing lawlessness creates havoc...and increases other crimes which become violent.

[Igel]

6. I blame them when they stop taking what's necessary for a survival.

In a dictatorship, where order is imposed from above and there is no need for citizens to buy into the prevailing order, I might agree with you. Then the Baghdad looting that was "to blow off steam" and really ridiculed when they said it 'got out of hand' is understandable.

When it proceeds beyond basic needs, I blame the individuals involved. Public morality in anything like a representative democracy is reflective of private morality (else we just have rampant hypocrisy). It's the individuals and the culture uniting them that make for society. Even when there are multiple cultures coexisting, you see what a person's real morality is when s/he's alone without somebody imposing order. It's rather like the unfaithful husband at a convention who's kept in line at home only by peer pressure and conventions.

[Matariki]

2. thank you.

this is a very level-headed and non-judgmental post on the topic.

[Qibing Zero]

5. And while you argue lawlessness is destructive in nature

I would argue that this only happens in circumstances wherein the people have no trust in their regular social situation in the first place.

[Igel]

7. I would say that it happens primarily

when people do not feel that they are part of the fabric of society.

This happens for many, many reasons. Sometimes they've been shortchanged by society. But even in those demographics, anomie's been on the rise in the last 60 years as more people believe themselves to have been shortchanged when, in fact, some are not even taking some of the options offered to them. And it's not limited to communities that have historically been shortchanged.

Part of it is also expectations: it's not that a lot of poor are starving, or poor by world standards, but poor by society's standards. Having a roof and sufficient food isn't enough when the guy next door has a McMansion and really, really good food. And a BMW. I've known poor people with more self-respect and dignity than some rather well-off kids in this respect.

What I find odd is that some of the kids (including young adults, and even late participants, seizing the day and the TV) *don't* buy into the prevailing social culture, but still expect the same standards of physical culture.

[jayfish]

8. Your Very Close, But I Think...

in this particular case you will see more of a bell curve on how the looting goes. Your curve is upside-down from mine.

Looting stuff because most did not understand the magnitude of the situation. Followed by the looting of necessities once the concept of personal survival set in. And finally looting stuff again as a form of currency to pay for rapidly dwindling necessities.

Just my .02

Jay

[eyepaddle]

9. Yeah, it's a little hard to say

but the main thing is evil thrives when chaos reigns. They NEED a SHITLOAD of help down there right now to restore oder and GET THOSE PEOPLE out of there.

It's gonna be Mad Max come to life if we don't act soon.

[1932]

10. Can we stop this fixation on looting.

Who cares if one guy out of hundreds takes a TV. What's he going to do with it? Ride it down the coast to Tallahassee?