A Simple Question

[Birthmark]

Why the HELL is the Army Corps of Engineers worried about fixing the breaches in the levees instead of slapping together some pontoon bridges so that people may leave the city?!

[liberaliraqvet26]

1. thats true...

i didn't think of that. when i was in Iraq I saw the Army corp of engineers put up bridges over the Tigris in hours.

[Birthmark]

2. That was my understanding

How many of those bridges could have been constructed by now? How many more rescues could have been effected? Fixing the levees is absolutely pointless right now. I'm friggin' furious and I don't anger easily.

[AlGore-08.com]

3. Because if they stop more water coming into the city

Fewer people will drown, and they will have more time to rescue people before they do. And once they stop the water flowing in, they can fix the pumps and start pumping water out. (Pumping it where, I'm not sure.) They are reporting that the water level has stabilized by itself, rising and falling a set amount with the tides. However, I'm not clear on whether there will be any more danger from rain Katrina released further north and east.

However, they are working on other projects - - like part of the airport is now open, so emergency supplies can be flown in and people can be flown out.

[Birthmark]

4. They should have known...

...that the water would stabilize itself. They're engineers, for God's sake! Meanwhile, hundreds of people are isolated in the hot sun with no food or water or cover, in short, dying. Drying the city will save close to zero lives. People should be the first priority. And the more people that can be saved, the better. Bridges will accomplish this far, far better than fixing the levees and pumps.

Once the people are safe, then whatever way they want to save the buildings is fine with me.

[JHB]

5. Because they'd need to build a many, many miles-worth of bridges...

...to do that, and they figure their time is better spent trying to get things to a point where water can be pumped out instead.

[Birthmark]

6. To what purpose?

Right from the beginning of the flood we've known it will take weeks/months to pump out the city. This helps NO ONE. Every single bridge will some people NOW - which is what's important if we want to save lives. Meanwhile, people are dying. But, hey, maybe we can save from TV sets from being looted if we pump out the city fast enough! GRRRRR!

[AlGore-08.com]

7. 80% of the city is under water

How big would the bridge have to have been? Where exactly would they build the bridge from? And where would they build it to? The survivors didn't start out in a single, central location until the search and rescue folks brought them to the Superdome.

I'm not an engineer, so I don't know what kind of conditions are too extreme even for pontoon bridges. Even if there was an obvious place to lay a bridge like that, I'm not sure that it would have been physically possible early in the process, with the rising water full of debris. It might not even be possible now.

[Birthmark]

10. I understand what you are saying.

I also understand that the entire problem couldn't have been solved in this fashion. But here's the way I would have worked this, bearing in mind that I'm no engineer. As soon as I ascertained that the flood was going to occur (and that's *at least* 24 hours ago), I would have begun putting down pontoon bridges starting at the Superdome and working towards where the nearest large group of people are. I would have stationed police around this area to instruct people to walk to the Superdome. I would then have repeated this process.

It's not all or nothing proposition, AG-08. *Every* bridge put down in this way would save lives probably and would definitely reduce the tension level - on the victims, on the police, and on the rescuers. The way this catastrophe has bordered on the criminally negligent, imo. Today, it may cross that line.

[AlGore-08.com]

12. But how could pontoon bridges put down before the hurricane

Have survived the hurricane? The two bridges over Lake Pontchartrain and the levee, which were (supposedly) designed to withstand the hurricane, couldn't stand the strain. How could temporary bridges have survived?

I don't think it's an either/or issue, I think that some things are just not physically possible before, during and after a cat. 4 hurricane. And the planners have to make educated guesses about when and where the hurricane will make landfall (the day before Katrina struck the Gulf Coast, one of the models had it turning and striking Florida again).

I agree it's going to be very important to ascertain whether the disaster planning and response was criminally negligent or not. It's going to be difficult, because this is really an unprecedented disaster - - and we still don't know how effective (or ineffective) the rescue will end up being. And there are some things we will never know. Not to be gruesome, but if someone has passed away, unless their body is recovered, how will we know whether they passed away during the storm or after it?

And again, not to be gruesome or callous, but I don't know how to think about the number of causalities that may have occurred. With a storm this size, how many causalities would be considered "normal"? Are the 15,000 (or 25,000) folks who are being taken from the Super Dome to the Astronomer a "normal" number, or even an impressive number, of folks to have been rescued?

For me at least, it's easier to see the see the long term planning failures - - things like cutting the FEM budget in favor of the tax cuts for the super rich, the refusal to deal with the looming energy crisis and global warming, and the conservative anti-Government, anti-tax rants that have lead to our infrastructure being criminally underfunded...

[Birthmark]

8. Bump

I think this is important. They *knew* how high the water would reach long before this event occurred. They knew fairly early on that they wouldn't be able to repair the breaches in time to prevent the flooding from reaching it's maximum. They've known for almost 24 hours now that the flooding has stopped, yet they are *STILL* fucking around worrying about the friggin' levees while conditions in the city continue to deteriorate and people continue to die.

What the HELL is going on?

[linazelle]

9. You have to wonder where their priorities lie. nt

[Birthmark]

11. Their priorities were well-intentioned

They wanted to save the city. However, they failed to adapt their plans to the reality that NO isn't coming back any time soon. They continued (and still continue) to fret about mere property while human beings' lives hang in the balance. This is an important day. This is the day that those who have no water will begin to die. Action must be taken immediately!