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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 06:48 PM
Original message
time to get a diesel, wean yourself from petroleum
forget hybrids. a diesel can run on biodiesel or vegetable oil, both of which are independent from rising oil prices. help the farmers instead of the oil companies.

more info:

http://www.solarbus.org/biodiesel.shtml

wean yourself from petroleum
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Aunt Anti-bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
1. I had a friend awhile back who had a car that ran diesel...
I made fun of him all the time. I guess it is time to call and apologize, huh?

Oh, this is terrible. We're all going to have to ride bicycles, really, before this is all over. Thank goodness I pumped up the tires on mine the other day. :)
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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. it is not so terrible
but really, this is not "terrible." As americans we drive too much. We waste, we pollute, more than other countries, and part of the reason is our gas is so cheap. in other countries gas is more expensive and they drive less. If an oil crisis is the only thing that can get americans to drive less, then i'm all for it.

but i'm serious about biodiesel. look for biodiesel prices to remain stable or drop as gas an diesel prices rise.
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I_Make_Mistakes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I'm hoping to ride my bike to work
It's great on the wallet and good for the health. I am looking to leave whorporate America and becoming a teacher. That way, I can live close to work, no serious car worries, gas worries and insurance is really cheap when you live close to work.
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yourout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
3. Amen brother.
Edited on Wed Aug-31-05 07:55 PM by yourout
Just got a 2006 TDI Jetta........my first non american car and I love it. Also just starting a local Biodiesel coop. I do work for some Pharmacutical companys so I think I can get may hands on a stainless steel tank for the batch reactor. Three phone calls landed me 35 gallons a week of used cooking oil.
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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. have you considered
converting your car to run on the vegetable oil? it's easier than brewing biodiesel and safer. I know someone that did it on a brand new passat and hasn't had any problems.

i've been running a 35 foot school bus on biodiesel for 3 years now. We just did the veg oil conversion and as soon as we bleed out the air from the fuel lines I'll be running on waste vegetable oil.
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yourout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Its new so my warranty would go bye bye if I went SVO.
I am probably stretching my luck with any homebrew but we will see how it goes. I am looking for another used TDI for my teenagers that I would try B50 or higher if all goes well.
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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. i just read that VW honors their warranty on biodiesel use
but I'm guessing it has to be ATSM certified fuel.
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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
7. I've Been Driving a Diesel (Truck) for Years
I still burn oil, just less of it. Last spring I was talking to a girl at the pump. She had one of the VW new-model bugs with a diesel. She told me she was getting 60 mpg out of it. I was suprised.
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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. have you considered biodiesel?
you don't have to modify your rig at all. just pour it in and you're weaned from the oil companies. finding it is the problem. depending on where you are, some cities have biodiesel at the pump now. I can help you find it if you are interested.
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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. You Presume There's Somewhere I Could Get It
Why would I modify a perfectly good engine to accept a fuel that is unavailable anywhere that I know of?

Its nice to think that you can pull up to the closest McDonalds and fill up with rancid-fry-go-juice but if you're about the third guy in line that day its not likely that they will have a vat waiting for you.

The truth is there's no such thing as a free lunch and there is great energy expended in getting biodiesel to market and it has its cost.

It is also preposterous to think of biodiesel as a harmless renewable fuel. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Once again, no such thing as a free lunch. Bio diesel begins life with the tilling of the soil, followed by the fertilization of the soil, then clowds of pesticides and a hugh mechanical harvest. Then processing and transportation to the pump. So to think of it as essentially benign free energy is just a little off base. It is another fuel source, one with its own set of pitfalls, and in the end only one of the many cards we will have to play to win this game but there are reasons its not commonly available.
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Gold Metal Flake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
8. My vegetable oil conversion.
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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. very nice work!
we're done with the conversion on the Solar Bus, but we have some air in the fuel lines that we still have to bleed out. I can't wait to drive on veg!!!
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Gold Metal Flake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #11
20. Air, eh?
When I finally hooked up the hoses, I ran the veg oil pump until it discharged at the front of the HIH assembly. I turned off the pump and just kept the open hose end elevated until I was ready to shove it onto the Pollack valve. This kept most of the air out. The diesel side of the Pollack was hooked up and running already. I loop the return when in veg, so that is where I would have problems if there was air. But, on the first test, I flipped the switch and it was as though nothing happened. The truck ran just the same with no stumbling.

You definately want to manually purge your fuel lines. Then, if air is still a problem, look for leakage at any hose connections, especially the return lines. On the veedub, the return hoses are not clamped. Air can enter there if they split (but mostly they just leak).
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
12. Er, not to nit-pick
...because I am a huuuuuuge fan of biodiesel.

But "independent from rising oil prices" isn't true, exactly. In the event of any kind of significant increased demand, biodiesel prices will rise, as there's no system to take up the supply end of things in a fluid (no pun intended) way.

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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. answer
the cost of biodiesel is a complicated issue. right now it is inflated because it is only being made from soybeans. as soon as the farmers realize they can make more money with sunflower or canola crops the price should come down. also as scale of production increases, there should be price breaks. biodiesel prices have been steady for the last 3 years while gas prices have more than doubled.
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Is biodiesal emission-free? I don't know too much about it.
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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. biodiesel emissions are MUCH less than gas or diesel
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yourout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Alge farms my be part of the long term answer....
Widescale Biodiesel Production from Algae
Michael Briggs, University of New Hampshire, Physics Department

" Office of Fuels Development, a division of the Department of Energy, funded a program from 1978 through 1996 under the National Renewable Energy Laboratory known as the "Aquatic Species Program". The focus of this program was to investigate high-oil algaes that could be grown specifically for the purpose of wide scale biodiesel production1. The research began as a project looking into using quick-growing algae to sequester carbon in CO2 emissions from coal power plants. Noticing that some algae have very high oil content, the project shifted its focus to growing algae for another purpose - producing biodiesel. Some species of algae are ideally suited to biodiesel production due to their high oil content (some well over 50% oil), and extremely fast growth rates. From the results of the Aquatic Species Program2, algae farms would let us supply enough biodiesel to completely replace petroleum as a transportation fuel in the US (as well as its other main use - home heating oil) - but we first have to solve a few of the problems they encountered along the way.

NREL's research focused on the development of algae farms in desert regions, using shallow saltwater pools for growing the algae. Using saltwater eliminates the need for desalination, but could lead to problems as far as salt build-up in bonds. Building the ponds in deserts also leads to problems of high evaporation rates. There are solutions to these problems, but for the purpose of this paper, we will focus instead on the potential such ponds can promise, ignoring for the moment the methods of addressing the solvable challenges remaining when the Aquatic Species Program at NREL ended.

NREL's research showed that one quad (7.5 billion gallons) of biodiesel could be produced from 200,000 hectares of desert land (200,000 hectares is equivalent to 780 square miles, roughly 500,000 acres), if the remaining challenges are solved (as they will be, with several research groups and companies working towards it, including ours at UNH). In the previous section, we found that to replace all transportation fuels in the US, we would need 140.8 billion gallons of biodiesel, or roughly 19 quads (one quad is roughly 7.5 billion gallons of biodiesel). To produce that amount would require a land mass of almost 15,000 square miles. To put that in perspective, consider that the Sonora desert in the southwestern US comprises 120,000 square miles. Enough biodiesel to replace all petroleum transportation fuels could be grown in 15,000 square miles, or roughly 12.5 percent of the area of the Sonora desert (note for clarification - I am not advocating putting 15,000 square miles of algae ponds in the Sonora desert. This hypothetical example is used strictly for the purpose of showing the scale of land required). That 15,000 square miles works out to roughly 9.5 million acres - far less than the 450 million acres currently used for crop farming in the US, and the over 500 million acres used as grazing land for farm animals.

The algae farms would not all need to be built in the same location, of course (and should not for a variety of reasons). The case mentioned above of building it all in the Sonora desert is purely a hypothetical example to illustrate the amount of land required. It would be preferable to spread the algae production around the country, to lessen the cost and energy used in transporting the feedstocks. Algae farms could also be constructed to use waste streams (either human waste or animal waste from animal farms) as a food source, which would provide a beautiful way of spreading algae production around the country. Nutrients can also be extracted from the algae for the production of a fertilizer high in nitrogen and phosphorous. By using waste streams (agricultural, farm animal waste, and human sewage) as the nutrient source, these farms essentially also provide a means of recycling nutrients from fertilizer to food to waste and back to fertilizer. Extracting the nutrients from algae provides a far safer and cleaner method of doing this than spreading manure or wastewater treatment plant "bio-solids" on farmland............."

<http://www.unh.edu/p2/biodiesel/article_alge.html>

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yourout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. diesel powered kick.
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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-31-05 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. my dream...
to cruise around lake champlain and other lakes in the area, trailing a device that skimms the surface for algae. the boat runs on vegetable oil / biodiesel. I process the algae into oil and sell it for half the price of gasoline.

some day soon.
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