Who said a sniper fired at a helicopter? Where is the evidence?

[Scout1071]

Why do I get the feeling that that line is total bullshit as an excuse why people weren't being evacuated? One fucking bullet at a helicopter so 200,000-300,000 people suffer?

I'm sorry for the language, but the more I think about this the more pissed off I get.

Put on some comfy shoes. It's time to march. And yes, it is time to storm the castle.

[mcctatas]

1. I heard a doctor interviewd by Wolf Blitzer and he said it didn't happen..

wonder where the story started? (the doctor was in the hospital where they said one of the incidents occured)

[Scout1071]

3. Why would they completely shut down rescue over a rumor?

They made that up as an excuse and I am furious.

[1932]

15. Because FEMA know they're taking the blame unless they can pass buck to

victims.

Bush's career might hinge on this.

[MisterP]

32. the MSM seems to be working as hard as possible to excuse the

complete stalling of all forms of aid outside NO

[walldude]

49. That's not exactly true

there are alot of people on the warpath today. Check out Crooks and Liars, they have some clips of people going off on the politicans. Anderson Cooper was channeling Edward R. Murrow today.

[KittyWampus]

4. the doctor didn't know if it was a rumor or not. the scanner threads

indicate there is violence happening.

50% of NO police force just quit cause they can't even secure their OWN safety.

[DoYouEverWonder]

8. There is violence happening every night

in any major American city. Under the circumstances I would expect an increase in such behavior.

[1932]

17. According to NewsHour, they quit because they have no food, no homes

and are discovering their in the same position as other victims.

[progressivebydesign]

47. I read a quote from someone in charge of the copters..

and it did happen. That was why the decision was made to stop flying for a while. Someone took a potshot at them because they wanted their family to be rescued instead of the ill people.

Why is everything a fucking conspiracy around here?

The doctor who was interviewed DID NOT KNOW if it was true or not.. but he said that help was needed regardless. He did not dispute it, he called it a rumor even though he didn't know if it was really the truth or a rumor.

[leftchick]

2. I heard the FAA denied it

this morning

[Scout1071]

7. We need to investigate where this story started. Who reported it first?

And where did they get their info?

[1932]

18. Check the archives, people with stars. It would be fascinating to see

who started it here.

[bahrbearian]

5. and were are the police and the NG they should be able to confirm.

[Bouncy Ball]

6. I'm starting to wonder that myself.

That was the ONE story that got a lot of people outside of that area all huffy and indignant and yet I haven't seen a single verification of this story or anything.

And it smells fishier and fishier all the time.

[Scout1071]

13. The story wreaks to me. Something that might happen in Iraq.

Something the military or Bushit regime would make up while they secretly FINALLY started mobilizing the troops toward NO.

What freakin' looters would fire at somebody's grandma being lifted?

I'm throwing a BS flag.

[Lars39]

9. There was a nurse(?) from Charity being interviewed on CNN earlier

who said her husband(doctor?) was on the roof when the incident occurred. She seemed very credible in her interview,fwiw.

[Stephanie]

16. I heard her - she said my husband is an eyewitness

He was escorting patients to an evacuation locale when it happened. The patients had to turn around and go back to the hospital, BTW, because the site was not ready to evacuate them. Sick hospital patients.

[leftchick]

19. this is what I have read

and gawd I am exhausted I need bed.

There was a report of a gunshot at a Chinook Helicopter at the dome very early this AM

Then there was a report of sniper fire at the Charity Hospital.

The dome story seems to be a rumor or fake plant?

The Charity Hospital story seems to end up being shots at cars in the parking lot.

[libertypirate]

10. Who gave the doctor the idea that it was a sniper? /nt

[1932]

23. You can see how the hyseria feeds hysteria. If everyone thinks it's the

wild west out there because Bush says so, then any slight piece of evidence -- a car backfiring, a person shooting at nothing just to get attention, someone flying off the handle at no one in particular -- gets interpreted as violence directed at other vicitms and rescuers.

I've het to see any 100% confirmed evidence of any of the worst stuff being claimed.

For example, the Superdome stories about shots being fired inside -- that would be an easy one to confirm since there'd be 10,000 witnesses and a rush for the doors. But nothing.

[daleo]

11. The "dumping sandbags on the breech by helicopter" never happened

Basically, because they never had the helicopters needed for the job. Perhaps there are simply still not enough helicopters, and rather than admit that, some authorities latched onto this sniper story as a justification for lack of response. It will take a long time for the truth to come out about any of this, if it ever does. But common sense tells you that there has been a huge failure by the authorities.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

12. They wanted to use something to try to point the finger of blame....

...at the victims of this disaster. That's what the NeoCons ALWAYS do when things don't go well.

[Maiden England]

14. It did happen

The company my husband works for is running EMS flights evacuating people from NO hospitals. One of their helicopters 'took fire' and they returned to base in Texas without landing, when they landed and took stock, they had 2 bullet holes in the fuselage - I think in the tail section, but I'm not 100%.

[Scout1071]

20. How do they know these weren't fired during "Marshall Law"?

Look, I'm just saying that to let 100's of thousands of people inch closer towards death because of 2 effin' bullets is bullshit. This is supposed to be the land of the brave. And they are telling us that two fuckin' bullets stopped the rescue of 200+ thousand dying NO residents? BULLSHIT.

[Maiden England]

24. I absolutely agree with you,

We have no idea who fired the shots, but I do know that not to have any kind of NG/Military presence providing law and order in such a large scale disaster area, is bloody asking for trouble.

Katrina has washed up the blame firmly on the doorstep of the WH, and its time to hold those MFs accountable :grr:

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Scout1071]

34. Whoa. I never said it didn't get hit at the hospital or in the air.

I said that supposedly the law enforcement and national guard where on a shoot to kill orders as it relates to looters.

Based on the stories I've seen, looters were actually driving stolen vehicles, raiding stores and delivering to the dome and other locales.

I'm sorry, but I find it hard to believe that even gang members would be firing at evacuation helicopters helping the sick, the babies and the elderly.

Call me cynical, but I'm not exactly your everyday, average conspiracy theorist.

[beam me up scottie]

52. It's hard for ANY of us to understand what

it's like to be that desperate.

And criminals kill little kids in their own neighborhoods, you think they wouldn't fire on a rescue helicopter?

When there is nothing to stop them, criminals will take over and the weak will die.

This isn't the first time this has happened during a crisis.

[Maiden England]

35. Look these aren't military helicopters

They are civilian EMS units, and the pilots flying them aren't about to fly in somewhere while taking fire (well some of our pilots were ex-vietnam pilots and are quite gung-ho - but even so, they recognize the danger and stupidity of trying to do it without any suppressive or covering fire). I mean the last thing you need is for them to shoot down the helicopter, not only for the loss of the life of the pilots, the loss of the aircraft, but if you destroy the LZ, then how the heck can they land further evax there?

Logic dictates they have to be able to operate without taking bullets...

[Maiden England]

38. And even if its just stray fire...

...that's why the NG, MPs are needed to restore order, so there isn't a whole bunch of stray bullets being shot off in an area they are trying to evacuate sick people.

[1932]

25. Telephone game?

[Scout1071]

27. Bingo.

[SammyWinstonJack]

21. Well it's their story and they're sticking to it!

Evil bastards! :grr:

[fishnfla]

22. link to one story

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/91599031

quotes CG spokeperson saying "every hospital"

[Scout1071]

26. Link didn't work.

[question everything]

28. Superdome evacuations disrupted after reports of shots fired at helicopter

http://www.shreveporttimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050901/NEWS/50901007

NEW ORLEANS — The evacuation of the Superdome was temporarily disrupted today after shots were reported fired at a military helicopter and arson fires broke out outside the arena. No injuries were immediately reported.

An air ambulance service official said that helicopter transfers of the sick and injured were suspended, but the National Guard said today that able-bodied evacuees were still being moved by bus to Houston’s Astrodome.

[Used and Abused]

44. how ironic

Your screen name says question everything, then you post up a link to prove that this really did happen? these media outlets all copy one another and thats how fake news travels

[Lone_Star_Dem]

30. Duers I do believe this story is a mass of misinformation

It starts here...

Suspending the helicopter rescues at the Superdome, a spokesman for the Louisiana ambulance service told the BBC the crowd had grown unruly and he was concerned for the safety of his staff.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4205074.stm
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1742814

Then I posted this earlier today...

In a phone interview on CNN. I heard it with my own two ears. However, this is what he said today.

Richard Zuschlag, president of Acadian Ambulance Service Inc., described the chaos at a suburban hospital.

"We tried to airlift supplies into Kenner Memorial Hospital late last evening and were confronted by an unruly crowd with guns, and the pilots refused to land," he said.

"My medics were crying, screaming for help. When we tried to land at Kenner, my pilots got scared because 100 people were on the helipad and some of them had guns. He was frightened and would not land."
http://www.wwltv.com/sharedcontent/nationworld/katrina/stories/090105ccwcKatrinaDocsplead.16a0e3a0.html

Which version is true? I have no idea, but I did not hear this Doctor confirm nor deny. He said, "we have no idea why there's shooting of any kind."

The only thing I'm sure of is that the patients need evacuated.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4560760&mesg_id=4561170

I feel this is a case of someone speaking before they knew all the facts.

You guys follow the links and decide for yourselves.

[pitohui]

46. lone star dem i used to live in kenner trust me

there is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that the shooting happened

kenner is a war zone

i could tell you tales to curl blood but i wanna live

seriously

no one familiar w. this area is gonna doubt that armed gunmen in kenner will take yr head off

i've been shot at, in kenner natch, if you live in kenner at one time or another i'm sure you've been shot at, hell, when i was living there, a dude was shot dead at the donut shop because he complained that his hamburger wasn't cooked right, so the chef came out and shot him

if you have never lived in kenner, you have NO clue, i'm sorry

it may sound well in leeds or dublin to hear that the tales of gun-toting kenner residents is a tall tale but the bbc hasn't been to kenner

i have

it's a war zone

[Lone_Star_Dem]

89. I'm not trying to say it isn't possible just that the facts in this story

don't add up.

Let me explain better.

I have a theory where this all may have started from.

Last night there was a gentleman by the name of Richard Zuschlag doing a live phone interview on CNN. At the time of the interview he was reporting that one of his helicopters was shot at while attempting an evacuation.

I heard this as did others here on DU. If I could search I'd find the thread but since I can't I'll beg you to indulge me for a bit.


This morning this was reported:


BBC: Shots fired at NG helicopter evacuating Superdome.

The evacuation of stranded hurricane victims from New Orleans' Superdome stadium has been suspended after shots were fired at a rescue helicopter.

A spokesman for the Louisiana ambulance service told the BBC the crowd had grown unruly and he was concerned for the safety of his staff.

He said a national guard had been shot, but he had not been seriously injured.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4205074.stm

The story at the above link no longer reads like that.

It now reads:

Medical evacuations from the Superdome stadium have been disrupted after a gun shot was fired at a rescue helicopter.
<snip>
Suspending the helicopter rescues at the Superdome, a spokesman for the Louisiana ambulance service told the BBC the crowd had grown unruly and he was concerned for the safety of his staff.

Now I'd like to draw your attention to what Mr Richard Zuschlag had to say today.

Richard Zuschlag, president of Acadian Ambulance Service Inc., described the chaos at a suburban hospital.

"We tried to airlift supplies into Kenner Memorial Hospital late last evening and were confronted by an unruly crowd with guns, and the pilots refused to land," he said.

"My medics were crying, screaming for help. When we tried to land at Kenner, my pilots got scared because 100 people were on the helipad and some of them had guns. He was frightened and would not land."
http://www.wwltv.com/sharedcontent/nationworld/katrina/stories/090105ccwcKatrinaDocsplead.16a0e3a0.html

Note that today he did not say that shots had been fired. He said the crowd was unruly and had guns, but not that anyone fired. No place in todays article did he mention a helicopter being shot at last night at the while attempting an evacuation, like he did the night before on CNN.

I think this may have all been created by Mr Richard Zuschlag speaking before he had all the information and then things morphed until it was a military helicopter, etc, etc...

I'm just speculating here, but considering the fact that information coming out of NO is not the best and since Mr Richard Zuschlag did tell a different story today, it seems possible.

Hell, they may well be taking pot shots at every passing helicopter for all I know, but the reports didn't begin until Mr Zuschlag went on CNN last night and said that they were. Now today he doesn't make mention of it. In fact he tells a different story.

It's just odd is all I'm saying. And, yes, I do question everything. :)

[beam me up scottie]

106. There were reports of another incident today.

And eyewitness accounts to back them up.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

110. Like I said

I'm not trying to even say this incident wasn't possible. And I'm not doubting the fact that there is violence occurring, either.

I'm just pointing out that, in the case of this specific story, one man may have misspoke from what I can see. This may have led to some news reports that may not have been 100% accurate. Note all the "may haves" because I don't know for sure, none of us do. I sure as hell don't doubt him when he says that there were people with guns on the helipad. There has to have been a reason why they didn't land and that sounds pretty feasible to me. The only reason I question this is because he said one thing last night and something different today. That's all.

I saw where there was an incident involving a gunman at Tulane Medical Center today and that sounds pretty damn credible to me. See, I'm not a doubting Thomas about everything. ;)

[beam me up scottie]

111. Oh I know.

You're way more than cool.

You have links to back up what you say and you are not promoting rumours or encouraging dissent among DUers.

I just get irritated (to put it mildly) with the opportunists who seem to thrive on misery and fear.

I'm a skeptic and have been called a lot worse than a doubting Thomas, so I know of what you speak. :-)

Peace.

[K-W]

31. ignore

[Scout1071]

36. Wow. My first ever (known) ignore.

[K-W]

42. lol, no it was a self-delete

I posted nonsense, and then thought better of it.

[Scout1071]

50. Whew (wiping brow).

I mean, I know that I finally allowed myself one (alright, two) glasses of wine as a stress reliever tonight, I didn't think the question was that bad!

[stepnw1f]

33. The Power of Suggestion

yup

[pitohui]

37. look it happened

there has been gang war going in n'awlins for several weeks now

this hurricane happened at the worst possible time

[Scout1071]

39. It was just a little free thought people! I've been watching the news

non-stop and I had not seen anything on it.

I'm not trying to start a big ol' conspiracy, I was just asking!

[beam me up scottie]

48. Try these stories from this link:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/01/katrina.impact/index.html

*Sniper fire halts hospital evacuation
Gunmen fire at medical workers and patients at Charity Hospital


*Relief workers confront 'urban warfare'
Violence disrupts evacuation, rescue efforts in New Orleans


*Marooned doctors plead 'Please help us'
Unruly crowds disrupt, prevent hospital evacuations

This is nothing new, remember what happens to UN relief workers who go into areas like this without protection?

[Scout1071]

58. So, why is our military afraid of one guy in a "white shirt"?

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Used and Abused]

40. and if by chance it did reallly happen, maybe it was a cry for help

foolish of course, since those things usually explode.

[pitohui]

51. a cry for help, are you on drugs or what

i was shot at five times in close range, they missed every time

have you ever handled a handgun

obviously not

most of the time it don't hit what it's supposed to hit because the type of person who carries a handgun is, guess what, on drugs, and handguns ain't that accurate to begin with

i think it's sick that some ppl would only be happy if the helicopter crew was killed

what the hell is wrong w. ppl

the gunmen who fired on the choppers should not get a free pass & all kindsa skepticism because they were lousy shots

sheesh

[Used and Abused]

53. cry for help meaning trying to flag the pilot down

to get rescued??? duh--if they missed each time. think about it

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Used and Abused]

69. no i wouldn't, but maybe someone else (who doesn't watch tv)

or understand the way choppers work would. Why do I have to be on drugs to note this possibility? gosh you guys amaze me

[beam me up scottie]

76. It's about how HUMANS work, not choppers.

Since when do you shoot at people when you're "crying for help"?

Maybe in your world it's possible, but not in this one.

You amaze me.

Stop trying to make this situation fit some fantasy about saving the world.

Criminals suck.

They kill people.

Why is that so hard to understand?

[Name removed]

80. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[beam me up scottie]

84. You're not a messenger and you just attacked me.

Try a refresher course on the rules, it'll be more educational and productive than all of this fantasy guesswork you're doing.

[pitohui]

65. they missed every time cuz they were smoking crack

what part of there is a gang war going on in the city of new orleans and has been for prob. two months do you not understand

whole families were murdered because one individual was supposedly a witness in the month of july

i was fired on five times & they missed because they smoked crack

not because they were just trying to politely send me an effing message

reality is real

fantasy is fine for another day

i fully assume they fired at the chopper because someone was being evacuated that they didn't like or they thought it was someone they didn't like -- in my case i was fired on as a case of mistaken identity

oh hell

if you think everybody is good & everyone pulls together & blah de blah go be president of ebay or something

but the real world includes the sociopath element

yeah, i believe they were shot at

being shot at is part of normal life in this city

[Used and Abused]

71. its too bad you were shot at

but right now i don't care. I was saying my opinion of why a chopper PROVIDING RESCUE OPERATIONS might be fired upon. i know its easier to just think it was another case of those 'animals gone wild.' but some people might not know any better and might be sending shots in the air to try to get help or attention.

[pitohui]

75. yeah whatever

if you have nothing helpful to say and you're not from the area

you know what

i have a dark place you can put it

god forgive me

i lost someone today

don't give me "this didn't really happen, it ain't that bad" bullshit

you should be ashamed

save it for a more appropriate time

i'm outta here

[QC]

86. This post made me laugh out loud!

Thanks--I needed that!

[not systems]

41. I think a helicopter with a bullet hole would be shown on TV...

like 24 hour a day.

SO I think it didn't happen and serves as an
excuse for the poor response to the needy.

[Scout1071]

45. That's all I was saying. So far it seems like 2nd hand stories.

And in the "land of the brave" who would ever let 2 bullets stop a full scale, life or death evacuation of 200-300,000 people?

[beam me up scottie]

59. The people in charge of the safety of the rescue crews would.

Where have you been living ?

[Scout1071]

67. Helicopter pilots are some of the most courageous sons of bitches out ther

Why do I feel like they would want to stay in action?

[beam me up scottie]

79. They're NOT IN CHARGE, are they?

But you know this.
Like I said, you're being obtuse and trying to promote your "theory" no matter what anyone tells you.

[Maiden England]

54. Its a private company and it doesn't want its aircraft on TV.

Its that simple.

[not systems]

55. Baloney...

the copter is a crime scene and the they wouldn't hide it.

Its that simple.

[Maiden England]

68. The 'buzz' amongst the mechanics at DH's work was

It was an EMS helicopter from Childrens hospital in Houston. I am not 100% sure if it was one of the helicopters his company operates or not, but aircraft mechanics and pilots on the gulf coast tend to have friends and contacts with others in the industry - across company boundries, heck most of them have moved between companies at some time or another anyway. Thats where we got the story first. Not from the media.

[not systems]

74. So you got it from the rumor mill and that is athoritative...

every report I read or heard was alway someone said or I heard.

Your story is no different.

[beam me up scottie]

83. So just make your own story up as you go along ?

Hysteria and fear mongering are sick hobbies.

Try looking for the truth instead of making up your own version.

[1932]

60. Give me a break.

[beam me up scottie]

66. You give me a break, calling other DUers liars is out of line.

You are trying to shoehorn the evidence to fit your preconceived paranoid conspiracy theory and NOW you are calling other posters liars in the process.

[tkmorris]

78. Either way, it's still hearsay

and thus not exactly reliable.

[beam me up scottie]

98. So proceed with LIHOP rumours ?

How does that help?

Not to mention that they negate all of the efforts of the rescue workers who do put their lives on the line every day.

Misinformants have been spreading these rumours all day.
If they are called on it in one thread, they go to another.

[1932]

87. You are asserting as a fact something there is no possible

way that you know is true.

You're saying the reason the helicopter isn't on TV is because the company is trying to keep their involvement secret? How would you even know that. How is that in any way credible?

And now you're lashing out at me?

[Name removed]

91. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[1932]

104. Uhm, pointing out that the evidence of helo-shooting is slim is NOT fear-

mongering. It's the opposite.

[beam me up scottie]

108. Your post #7 proves you are doing much more than that:

1932 (1000+ posts) Thu Sep-01-05 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #7

18. Check the archives, people with stars. It would be fascinating to see who started it here.

Sowing distrust amongst DUers with nothing to back it up...

Revolting.

[1932]

57. That's the thing. Bush is so desperate with lawlessness spin

and all they have are pictures of poor blacks and latinos trying to find clothes and food (which is really making me angry).

If they had bulletholes, Hannity would run with it and Chertoff would be showing the pictures in press conferences.

[Imagevision]

43. So there is no proof copters being fired on?

another Rove piece of shit idea. shooy to kill orders as they steal water and diapers!

[beam me up scottie]

62. Did you READ the posts on this thread?

Or does that get in the way of paranoid fantasizing about soldiers who kill mommies for stealing diapers?

[QC]

90. But it was a cry for help!

:crazy:

[beam me up scottie]

93. What is the matter with people?

WHen did all of the criminals in NO become innocents?

[QC]

95. I wish I could answer that.

I've been watching this place with horrified fascination for days now. It really has gotten well and truly batshit here, hasn't it?

[beam me up scottie]

99. I never should have left the groups...

I can't STAND people who use tragedy to further their agendas.

Exploitation of victims is STILL exploitation when it's done by the left.

[barb162]

61. I heard a woman at the hospital being interviewed and she said

some nutcase dressed in white was shooting at the copter and the copter had to leave

[Scout1071]

63. And that shuts down an entire evacuation of up to 300,000 people?

[pitohui]

70. do you have a clue of what's going on

hospitals are being jacked of their ambulances & generators, old ppl in nursing homes & hospitals left to die

ppl being carjacked at gunpoint

the evac was not shut down because of one bullet, it was temporarily shut down because there is a war going on, has been since june or early july, and ppl try to figure out a way to save as many as they can without putting even more lives in jeopardy

i know new orleans news is not nat'l news but check out the murder rates for july sometime

compare them to detroit, vegas, or new york city

hell, compare them to baghdad

this didn't start w. katrina, this is just an opportunity for a certain element to jack the hospitals and pharmacies

[Scout1071]

85. Agreed and I understand. I've been to NO and the South

in general. I have said many times that the poverty in the South is much different than anywhere else in the US. It is TRUE poverty.

Look, I'm not trying to be a conspiracy theorist. I'm just asking. I had not seen the cnn.com articles, I've been primarily focused on TV and online at DU, Kos, etc.

You've enlightened me with a few articles that make the story more credible, I'm not denying that. I'm just saying that I find it hard to believe that they are blaming this one shooter on shutting down the entire evacuation mission. Anyone listening to the police scanner (link provided in several DU threads) knows that there were no evacuations going on last night. But why did they stop the buses? Why did the stop the entire evacuation based on one guy in a white shirt?

Disagree all you like, but I still think that is a legitimate question.

[beam me up scottie]

72. Will you stop begging the question ?

You are wrong.

Your information is wrong.

You asked for evidence.

You have some.

But that's not good enough for you, you still need to keep spinning it to fit your agenda, which is what ?

Rumour and fear-mongering?

Happy?

[Scout1071]

81. My "agenda" is trying to figure out what the hell has gone wrong.

Nothing more, nothing less.

[beam me up scottie]

103. Then why dismiss everything you were told tonight?

A lot of folks have tried to inform and educate on this thread.

And for what?

To be told they don't know what they're talking about?

That even if they're right, it doesn't matter?

Free flowing discussion, my ass.

[craigolemiss]

77. Link to article on sniper with witness accounts

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/01/katrina.hospital.sniper/index.html

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

82. EVEN IF someone shot at a copter, it's the federal gov't's JOB to

be able to provide enough force to secure the area, so the copter can land and supply the hospital/evacuate the people etc.

Some dude shooting a rifle at a chopper certainly didn't prevent the four or five pacifications of Fallujah that have been done. Why the hell should it prevent supply of a hospital or evacuation of patients?

[beam me up scottie]

88. You're missing the op's inference that this is LIHOP.

Not to mention the fact that these aren't military choppers.

Civilian rescue and relief workers will not go into an unsecured area.

He's saying that stories are being fabricated in order to stop the rescue efforts.

And that's bullshit.

[Scout1071]

92. No.

I'm saying that they could have sensationalized to help explain the utter ineptness and fault in the delay of our troops to aid these people in a life or death situation.

I'm simply asking a question and opening for debate. I think that if you look back down this thread you will find that your comments are totally confrontational. I'm just encouraging a little debate as to why the fuck our National Guard isn't in there until tonight.

And by the way..."He" is a she.

[beam me up scottie]

94. Why didn't you follow the links and take the posters at their word?

You totally went into this assuming that you had the facts and refused to listen to anyone else.

You even repeated talking points after you were given the correct information by others.

Who said that all of the rescue efforts stopped because of one sniper?

I have yet to see your "evidence" for that assumption.

[Scout1071]

96. OK. I'm definitely done arguing with you tonight.

Seriously, thanks for the free flowing discussion.

[RBHam]

97. Even if there was shooting...

What are they scared of? They fly into the teeth of insurgent rockets and brave car bombings to deliver supplies in Iraq, don't they?

[beam me up scottie]

100. These are CIVILIAN pilots, so NO, they DON'T.

:banghead:

[RBHam]

102. What? They don't have National Guard pilots? What about reg Army?

Is EVERYTHING in Iraq?

[beam me up scottie]

105. This is why it's one of the biggest fuck ups on record.

And it's getting bigger by the hour.

There are too many eyewitness accounts of criminal activity to be dismissed as government propaganda.

[RBHam]

107. calculated witholding of supplies is incompetence?

Go here : www.newamericancentury.org

The PNAC wants martial law.

They wanted 9-11.

They wanted an imperialist presence in the middle east.

They get what they want.

[beam me up scottie]

109. Oh great. Another fucking MIHOP theory that claims everyfuckingthing

that happens is part of the "plan".

We're done.

[Kazak]

101. I admit I had a similar thought earlier...

My tinfoil hat wearin' brain started wondering briefly if the "sniper" had been planted in order to provide a good excuse for calling off the evacuation. I don't put ANYTHING past these fucks!