Genocide

[toddaa]

Is this word too strong?

[Pallas180]

1. If the shoe fits - if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, smells

like a duck ..............

[leftofthedial]

2. no

[orpupilofnature57]

3. 2000, started it, 2004 sealed it! How secure do you feel now ,Moms

[wli]

4. Not at all. It's very appropriate. n/t

[Adelante]

5. It doesn't fit, if you mean legally

There are criteria to be met.

http://www.genocidewatch.org/8stages.htm

Bad policy decisions are not sufficient - there has to be identifiable proactive government policy. Rounding people up in a stadium in a hurricane emergency is one thing. Rounding people up in a stadium and then shooting them, as was done in Bosnia, is another. Somebody gives the order and it is carried out, but it's carried out based on deliberate government policy. Gang raping of Black African Darfuri women by Arab militia, another example, is done to "lighten" the Sudanese racially and swing the tribal culture into an Arabic culture. Women raped in the stadium in NOLA by rapists among the refugees themselves, not by government order, is crime and it's government negligence - not genocide.

That the people are overwhelmingly black and poor doesn't meet the criteria, either, unless it were happening elsewhere to black and poor people outside the emergency zone. If this were a genocide, you could only say it is against people who did not evacuate NOLA in the mandatory evacuation, no matter their race. You could certainly say authorities should have put these people who could not or would not leave onto buses and transported them to shelters outside the expected flood area. Everybody knew what was coming. It really wasn't a good time to leave people to do their own thing, civil liberites be damned, it was a public safety matter and the authorities had a duty. But the authorities did not have government or militia forces circle the flood plains and keep people there, which is what happens in towns and villages and cities, when a genocide is ongoing.

We could and should shout out loud that funds were cut from programs that would have strengthened and repaired the levees and emergency preparedness projects that were funded ultimately had those funds cut back by the government in favor of homeland security funding. And ain't this homeland security? And that the National Guard is depleted for the war.

That reprihensible government policy led to this tragic mess is absolutely true, but it won't meet the genocide standard, because while we may want to believe it does, the intent to slaughter or wipe out culturally a specifically defined group cannot be shown.

This is horrible government negligence and horrible lack of leadership at the top and horrible misuse of public funds. But it's not genocide. I think we should call it what it is and not get off the target.



Just my opinion :hi:

[spooked911]

9. I think this was premeditated genocide. There is no excuse for what

they have done.

[Adelante]

10. You think? Then you have to prove it.

Do your research and back up your claim.

I certainly agree with your second point, that there is no excuse for what they have done. But, while calling it "genocide" may be a comfort to you and gives DU a nice little rile up for the day, what it actually does is weaken a term that millions of lives around the globe have to count on to keep on being lives, at all.

It takes power away from Bush being held accountable for what has happened here. There was a natural disaster that initiated the tragedy and then the results of piss poor government policy are shown. But there is no way in hell you can show that Bush ordered a hurricane so that he could have black and poor people killed. How many black and poor people left in the mandatory evacuation? Do we know? No, we don't, but those that did leave or wanted to leave, were they stopped by government troops? If you don't have this piece, you don't have genocide. If people were free to leave, but didn't, there you go.

The real crime is that programs were gutted which would have gotten those people, including elderly and infirm people, to safety. Was your genocide against elderly and infirm people, or just poor and black people? Not poor and white people? You see where this all goes. Noplace.

Don't waste time with what is going to go nowhere.

There was a discussion here some months ago about the 1968 police massacre in Mexico City. There, too, people here at DU and in Mexico wanted to call it genocide. But a massacre, in and of itself, is not genocide, unless it can be shown to be part of a larger government policy of intent to commit genocide. Genocide charges were filed in court and the case was lost. It was lost because, while it was official murder, it was not official genocide. I made the same point in that discussion as I am making here.

This is not genocide and it's never going to be genocide.

This is gross negligence and misuse of funds and forces by government. Call it what it is and we may get someplace against these motherfuckers.

[EFerrari]

15. I agree. This is genocide and at a faster rate than

we're used to. Usualy, they just throw Black men in jail. Maybe there's more money in rebuilding New Orleans than just building another prison and taking protection money from the prison unions.

[ScreamingMeemie]

6. It was what a man starving to death outside the convention center

called it this morning. Right here, in our own country. :(

[Adelante]

17. MrsMcGrumpy

There is so much to be blown away by in this. Every minute brings some new horror to overwhelm the senses. This is one of mine, where are the food and water airlifts? Even C-Rations. Why aren't there drops going on? Do you happen to know the answer? I've tried to follow this point, but it's so hard to keep up with it all. I know the Salvation Army has a large number of canteens going in the disaster area, and I'm sure there are other NGOs feeding people. Clearly this has not been enough.

[bryant69]

7. Clearly it's not

Let's hold it up to the criteria, though jsut to be sure.

Does it paint President BUsh and this Adminstration in the worst possible light? Well, I suppose we could go with "Pre-meditated Genocide" which would be even worse.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Adelante]

13. Except that genocide is always pre-meditated

Or it is not genocide.

Not arguing with you, just underlining a point.

[spooked911]

8. Bush is Hitler right now, wiping out the poor black folks.

I know that is strong but this is beyond any comprehension what is going on.

[coffeenap]

11. Not genocide--murder. Horrible, indefensible, murder!

That is why genocide is such an unimaginable thing--this is horrific enough. Imagining genocide like in Cambodia or Rwanda is just beyond the brain's capacity. Same with nuclear war. Multiply this by hundreds--that is genocide and nuclear war.

[DaveJ]

12. No, but I think they are operating on a survival of the fittest

level of thought right now to quell their guilty consciences. All the rest are being drawn through a strainer. The fittest they will need to rebuild and maintain their million dollar homes.

[EFerrari]

16. When the fittest are never Black, that's called genocide. n/t

[OhioChick]

14. Absolutely not n/t