Need to debunk a freeper, when did the Gov's ask for National Guard?

[corkhead]

Faux nooze is brainwashing their bots to blame the Mayor and the Governors, but no blame for our Great Leader, "especially at a time like this"

[timber84]

1. her letter to him on 8/28 was posted here last nigt

[benburch]

5. I think that was 8/27

The request was made, but Bush was on a bender of Crown Royal and cocaine injections and could not be bothered to give the order.

[corkhead]

9. found it, thanks everyone.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4598659&mesg_id=4598659

[blitzen]

2. link here n/t

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1749337&mesg_id=1749337

[bpilgrim]

17. here is a jpeg version ------------- ------------- > LINK

http://news.globalfreepress.com/katrina/Disaster_Relief_Request
(easier to mail around)

peace

[Kni7es]

3. Have you noticed

Whenever the words "violent looting" are said on Fox, they switch the screen to show a black man walking down the street?

[DoYouEverWonder]

4. Bush declared a STATE OF EMERGENCY BEFORE THE STORM

The Governor didn't have to ask for shit.

[SammyWinstonJack]

16. Isn't that why he declared a state of emergency? I don't understand why

the Gov. is being blamed, well really I do, but is everyone forgetting that bush declared a state of emergency before the storm, for the very purpose of giving the Govs of the states affected, the wherewithal to do what was needed? My head hurts from trying to understand the *logic* behind blaming Gov. Blanco and why isn't the Govs. of Miss. and Al. being blamed? I know, I know. But why aren't others questioning this? This stinks.

[corkhead]

24. it's easy, the Rovian blame the Dems, but don't blame us

that would be unpatriotic

I lifted this quote from a post by edhopper the other day, it fits perfectly

"Remember any criticism of Bush or any Repug is just being political and shows that Dems and liberals are unpatriotic.
Any attacks on Dems and liberals is just to point out how unpatriotic and political they are.
Got that!"


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4558300&mesg_id=4558300

[LaPera]

27. The media lives and dies by that quote!

And that's why we get the kind of "news" we get...

Personally I haven't watched the news in over two and half years.

[nonconformist]

6. I was a FEDERAL issue - they delayed paperwork until LATE THURSDAY

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/katrina_national_guard

WASHINGTON - Several states ready and willing to send National Guard troops to the rescue in hurricane-ravaged New Orleans didn't get the go-ahead until days after the storm struck — a delay nearly certain to be investigated by Congress.

New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson offered Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco help from his state's National Guard on Sunday, the day before Hurricane Katrina hit Louisiana. Blanco accepted, but paperwork needed to get the troops en route didn't come from Washington until late Thursday.

California troops just began arriving in Louisiana on Friday, three days after flood waters devastated New Orleans and chaos broke out.

In fact, when New Orleans' levees gave way to deadly flooding on Tuesday, Louisiana's National Guard had received help from troops in only three other states: Ohio, which had nine people in Louisiana then; Oklahoma, 89; and Texas, 625, figures provided by the National Guard show.

[Igel]

15. Same source,

less indicting.

'Maj. Gen. Thomas Cutler, who leads the Michigan National Guard, said he anticipated a call for police units and started preparing them, but couldn't go until states in the hurricane zone asked them to come.

'"We could have had people on the road Tuesday," Cutler said. "We have to wait and respond to their need."

'The Michigan National Guard was asked for military police by Mississippi late Tuesday and by Louisiana officials late Wednesday. The state sent 182 MPs to Mississippi on Friday and had 242 headed to Louisiana on Saturday. ...

'Typically, the authority to use the National Guard in a state role lies with the governor, who tells his or her adjutant general to order individual Guard units to begin duty. Turnaround time varies depending on the number of troops involved, their location and their assigned missions.

'One factor that may have further complicated post-Katrina deployment arose when Louisiana discovered it needed Guardsmen to do more law enforcement duty because a large portion of the New Orleans police force was not functioning, according to Lt. Gen. Steven H. Blum, chief of the National Guard Bureau at the Pentagon.

'Because the agreement that was already in existence for states to contribute Guard troops to Louisiana did not include a provision on their use in law enforcement, Blum said, Gov. Blanco had to get separate written agreements authorizing Guardsmen to do police-type duty.'

There are two questions about the first quote--Richardson offering, Blanco accepting. Did anybody initiate the request? And, did the request involve law-enforcement?

I'm also curious why Blanco is virtuous for not asking for all the NG help she could early: Michigan apparently was left waiting longer by Louisiana than Mississippi.

[nonconformist]

18. What you NEED to be questioning is why the paperwork bureaucracy

was even an ISSUE. Anyone with eyes could see it was needed, anyone with ears heard Blanco and Nagin BEGGING for troops for DAYS.

[Igel]

29. They're elected, responsible officials.

If Michigan had troubles, I'm sure that Blanco would offer and make ready her NG. But I doubt she'd just fly LA NG folk into Michigan based on CNN. Michigan has a governor; she's not helpless or a dolt. She knows the needs: she should evaluate offers and make requests.

If only to keep NOLAers from suing the other state's NG members after the fact: I doubt that Nagin would think kindly of unauthorized Michiganers running through his city with weapons.

[nonconformist]

30. THEY WERE NOT IN CONTROL.

http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/theme_home2.jsp

Department of Homeland Security

Preparing America

In the event of a terrorist attack, natural disaster or other large-scale emergency, the Department of Homeland Security will assume primary responsibility on March 1st for ensuring that emergency response professionals are prepared for any situation. This will entail providing a coordinated, comprehensive federal response to any large-scale crisis and mounting a swift and effective recovery effort.

--------------------------------

Louisiana was declared a national disaster and emergency state BEFORE KATRINA HIT. At that point, relief, rescue and coordinating these efforts became the responsibility of HOMELAND SECURITY. Not the fucking MAYORS.

[Nictuku]

7. August 28th

Here is the link:
http://gov.louisiana.gov/Disaster%20Relief%20Request.pdf

[Nictuku]

8. Department of Homeland Security

http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/theme_home2.jsp>Department of Homeland Security

Preparing America

In the event of a terrorist attack, natural disaster or other large-scale emergency, the Department of Homeland Security will assume primary responsibility on March 1st for ensuring that emergency response professionals are prepared for any situation. This will entail providing a coordinated, comprehensive federal response to any large-scale crisis and mounting a swift and effective recovery effort.

[smoogatz]

10. Anything to divert attention from the catastrophic indifference

of the Boy King. Jesus.

[mirandapriestly]

11. Online Freepers are trying to blame the Mayor by showing busses

covered with water. I don't understand what the deal is. They show a parking lot full of water covered school busses and say that it proves Nagin is at fault. Can anybody debunk or explain what is up with the busses?

[Spazito]

14. Ignore it, it is a Drudge talking point that has no merit

It is just the right wing trying to save their guy's ass, ain't gonna work.

[Emit]

12. The letter of 8/28 AND This interview w/ Honore

And, here's an interview that tells some more (Thanks to DUer July)

http://www.dod.gov/transcripts/2005/tr20050901-3843.html
Presenter: Lt. Gen. Russel Honoré, commander, Joint Task Force Katrina Thursday, September 1, 2005

Special Defense Department Briefing with Commander of Joint Task Force Katrina

Q General, Jamie McIntyre from CNN. To what extent is this additional assistance you've outlined today a response to a request from the state governors in Louisiana, Mississippi? And if so, can you tell us when specifically you got that request?
GEN. HONORÉ: Yes, sir. The process starts, sir, in this particular event, with a request Friday of last week, as the approximate date for defense coordinating offices to be established in Florida, Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana. Those were established in those states over Friday and Saturday.
Q Sir, I'm specifically interested in how soon after the hurricane hit and the extent of the damage became known did the governors request additional assistance above and beyond what they had requested before?
GEN. HONORÉ: Sir, that started to happen on Saturday, as the hurricane was approaching, and was executed with the movement of my headquarters on Sunday to Mississippi, where we established a joint -- JTF headquarters here in Mississippi with a forward cell of the 5th United States Army in Louisiana. And on Sunday we established JTF-Katrina, with myself as the task force commander. And since that time, we've continued to flow naval air and Army helicopter support and other assets, as requested by the governor, through FEMA. And that is the process, and you know that works. The governor identified a requirement. It goes to FEMA. That requirement is sent to Northern Command, my boss, Admiral Keating, as parallel to General McNeill at Forces Command. And we have started to flow the forces to your region. Over.
MR. DI RITA: You know -- it's Larry DiRita -- I think what people are interested in, if you know, is when specifically or if indeed did the governors specifically ask for additional security forces and when that might have been? And if you don't know that, we'll try and find it, but that would be -- I think that's a little more refined aspect of what the reporter's asking for.
GEN. HONORÉ: Yeah, that was incremental. The security force piece was executed through a process called EMAC. That started on Sunday, a collaboration between the adjutant general and the National Guard Bureau to flow additional capabilities to Louisiana and to Mississippi. That flow started approximately around Sunday. Forces started moving once the eye of the hurricane had passed and we could start moving forces in and assist the states, Alabama pushed forces into Mississippi as well as forces from Texas started to flow into Louisiana, as well as other states. But that's the approximate phase of the operation. Again, that was executed through National Guard arrangements to move National Guard capability where it's needed. And that is what is happening, an extension of that, now. The DOD capability was based on requests that came from FEMA for additional ability to assist in search and rescue, and that was called a mission assignment. Those started on Sunday. And we were here on Sunday, and by Monday, the Bataan was present, as well as federal helicopters started arriving Monday to assist in the search and rescue and the sustainment operation, that that is the timeline as it was executed in the process.

[Pirate Smile]

13. Information for you. Unbelievable things are coming out today placing

the blame straight on FEMA and Bush.

"My husband used to work in disaster preparedness/relief ...
Edited on Sat Sep-03-05 02:45 PM by Flaxbee

..he also worked in Russia for years, both before and after the fall of the Berlin Wall, and organized relief in the immediate aftermath of Chernobyl.

He doesn't post here, but he wrote this - he's been on the phone day and night for the past five days trying to get someone to OK the offered assistance. Everyone knows this is a first-class fuck up, but here's another perspective.


*************

Over the years I have worked in and out of government to solve communications and technical problems, save lives and help where possible. I was managing director of a Russian-American telephone company providing rapid communications in the former Soviet Union and have helped with disaster communications projects around the world.

This is the first time I have ever encountered this unbelievable kind of absolutely uncaring, Washington/political two-step. When the storm approached the Gulf coast I called offering simple suggestions to government types (since this was obviously from all reports going to be a terrible storm) of how to bring communications systems up as soon as the storm passed. I recommended bringing in Blimps with portable cell transceivers and VHF, UHF and other types of broadcast equipment and also equipment to aid in the search and rescue effort. No one was interested.

When the storm hit and everyone knew the worst had happened, I contacted the Red Cross, (someone there hung up on me) and then FEMA where someone told me it was all up to the DOD -- and I wondered why the Pentagon was in charge of FEMA? I was also told that FEMA was being privatized and a number of the experienced staff trained in hurricane relief had been told they had to resign from FEMA and then be rehired by the private company.

more at
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4610127

More:

"OMG. A group in Florida wanted to volunteer to bring in 500 air boats to help in the rescue efforts.

FEMA "emphatically" refused. They said they had to CONTRACT OUT for that and couldn't use volunteers.

Republican Rep. Mark Foley just said that on MSNBC."

more at
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4608106&mesg_id=4608106

I take it they are still clueless. That won't be able to last.

[JaneQPublic]

21. "Contract out"... to Halliburton, that is

The Administration can't be letting people offer work, money, and supplies for free. Bush and Cheney have plans to pay Halliburton big wads of our tax money to do the job!

[Pirate Smile]

28. What a shock that we can't bother to audit the money or investigate

the billions of missing dollars in Iraq. Too bad we can't get Congress to investigate, whoops, what Congress? The GOP controlled Congress wont allow any investigations.

This is all beyond belief.

[Igel]

19. The now oft-cited pdf doesn't do two things.

It doesn't say the local and state governments are out of the disaster management/recovery business.

And it doesn't ask for NG troops from every source possible. Apparently * could have done this; he did not. But the prez apparently does not usually do this; that falls to the governors in most cases.

Right now it's early to assess blame. I haven't even heard when Blanco activated the LA NG. I have heard that other states were kept waiting for the request necessary to authorize their governors to take action; and that the request for law enforcement assistance (when the NOLA police proved less than sufficient) mucked up matters, since that wasn't part of the agreement.

Bureaucrats and paperwork. Can't do much without them.

[Sparkly]

20. Quote from the Chimp himself, Sunday 8/28

"These declarations will allow federal agencies to coordinate all disaster relief efforts with state and local officials," Bush said.

In Washington, Nicol Andrews, a spokeswoman for the Federal Emergency Management Agency, said, "It's a very dangerous situation at this point. ...We're ready and awaiting landfall."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/08/28/national/main798819.shtml

[distantearlywarning]

22. Who gives a shit when the gov asked for NG?

Everybody in America watching cable television could see that the place was going to shit.

Is it now necessary for the federal government to have permission from local officials to do something about major disasters? This talking point is so stupid it doesn't even deserve an argument in response. Seriously.

This is how they get us every fucking time. Niggle and argue and bitch about unbelievably small details until everybody loses sight of the larger picture and eventually their bad deeds fall off the radar. Let's not let this happen this time, ok?

Tell this idiot that the feds have a responsibility to deal with crisis situations regardless of the local response, and that a bad local response in no way absolves them of any responsibility, but rather just makes the blame list longer.

[corkhead]

25. I agree but that is what is in a misinformed freeper mind

I said almost exactly what you did about feds seeing what was coming and that it ultimately was Federal responsibility, and the response was "well EVERYONE is at fault"

Bullshit. the buck stops in the whitehouse.

[Walt Starr]

23. August 28, the day [b]BEFORE[/b] Katrina made landfall. /t

[mrdmk]

26. Here is some more shit for the fan

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05246/565143.stm