Has anyone BEEN to Venezuela?

[StellaBlue]

I am just curious.

I don't trust ANY media outlet, and I trust the MSM the LEAST. I would like to see a BBC or PBS report on the conditions in Venezuela and what Chavez is really up to.

I mean, I like France, I like their attitude to American food and wine, I like their attitude to preserving their language in the face of an American cultural onslaught, I can't even help secretly liking Jacques Chirac despite his corruption and philandering, because, dammit, he's just so FRENCH... but I do also realize that France doesn't live up to its own rhetoric and mythology... Libertie, Fraternitie, Egalite, etc.....

I would love to actually be able to GO to Venezuela and SEE, and to talk to regular people there about their experiences and hopes and fears.

Has anyone spent any considerable amount of time there? Is there anyone on DU who is a Venezuelan? The only Venezuelan I can think of, off-hand, other than Hugo Chavez, is Gabriela Sabatini. And I am an expert in the geography category of Trivial Pursuit.... but I know little to nothing else about the place.

Yet I am curious because of the appeal of Chavez's rhetoric.

[valerief]

1. Thinking of retiring there?

Not a bad idea. It's pretty hot there, though.

[phusion]

2. Really?

Caracas has a pretty mild climate if you ask me:

http://www.weather.com/activities/travel/businesstraveler/weather/climo-monthly-graph.html?locid=VEXX0008&from=36hr_bottomnav_business

[billbuckhead]

3. If you are from today's Venezuelen middle class, you wouldn't like Hugo

but if you from the 90% who are poor, you would like Chavez. That's what a Venezuelen expat whose dad worked for Halliburton and lived in the company town explained to me.

[StellaBlue]

6. That's my hunch

From what I've read.

I am sure he is far from perfect, but he seems better, his policies seem better, than the politicians in THIS banana republic.

[valerief]

7. Correction

This is not a banana republic, not a democracy, not a theocracy. This is a PNACracy.

[billbuckhead]

23. I'm sure a large minority of the bourgeois also like Chavez

Chavez is a true South American populist leader as well as being Indian and black. If given a chance Chavez will create a huge educated middle class with national healthcare and make some Venezuelens the richest men in the world. Isn't that what WE want?

[AllieB]

4. Hi StellaBlue

I was there many years ago, and my neighbors are from Venezuela. I went to Margarita Island on vacation and Caracas for a few days. At the time, it was a desperately poor country ruled by the oil elite, and there was a lot of instability as a result.

What is your opinion of Chavez? He was democratically elected TWICE, but he is unpopular with the rich minority.

BTW Chirac is a member of the conservative party in France. Could you perhaps provide a link to the alleged corruption in his government? It certainly can't be any more corrupt than our oilgarchy!

Thank you.

[valerief]

8. He was elected twice?

Diebold must not be there. Yet.

[Cocoa]

14. Chavez's opposition played the "Diebold" card

except it was "Smartmatic."

They said Chavez stole the election with electronic voting machines.

[valerief]

16. Wow! So voting is now truly obsolete, right?

With the electoral college, voting is a farce anyway.

[Cocoa]

22. no, because the people spreading that message are failing

the voting machine "activists" in Venezuela and here are failing to sell that cynical message you are expressing.

People know that voting is crucial. Sorry. :hi:

[valerief]

24. How do you combat a news media that tells you

These are the voting results?

I can only see a coup that can combat that.

[Judi Lynn]

20. However, the election was completely transparent.

I'm not informed on e-voting machines, but I've read people who are indicate he used the ones which offer complete accountability at each step of the way.

The opposition was hoping to use the suspicion appropriately arising from Diebold to attach to the Venezuelan machines. They are utterly desperate.

That election was monitored by a huge number of international election overseers, including Jimmy Carter's own organization, and it was considered clean and reliable IMMEDIATELY after the election was concluded and the results were verified.

[Cocoa]

28. but that didn't stop the opposition

they were repeating the lie as late as 8/22/05.

http://www.vcrisis.com/index.php?content=letters/200508221614

They can do this ad infinitum. Neither Jimmy Carter nor any amount of evidence can stop people who are completely uninterested in the truth, in Venezuela or here.

[valerief]

29. I wonder what his exit polls votes were!

In the US, exit polls are now considered inaccurate, when they don't jibe with BushCo votes.

[StellaBlue]

10. Re: Chirac

I just know from hearing general media reports while in Europe for the past four years that it is expected that Chirac will be prosecuted for some corrupt activities he was involved in whilst mayor of Paris. He cannot now be prosecuted because he is still in office.

One article I've found:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4367199.stm

But, no, I don't think he/the French government is more corrupt than ours. NO WAY. We are by FAR the most corrupt. The UK is obviously on the *co chuckwagon, but on domestic matters the government there is MUCH more responsive to the electorate than here. They also do not have smarmy political advertizing, a fetish for parading their national flag in every photo op and on every TV news station banner, etc., etc. I want to see * meet weekly with Congress and have to answer unscripted questions from all members of all oppossing parties, and justify his actions/inactions, as British Prime Ministers must do. While their 'honourable' colleagues shout them down, hiss, etc. hahahaha

I am working on forming an opinion on Chavez. From what I have read in the past year, mostly from the BBC, he seems a great Marxist leader and populist, etc., etc. But throughout history, how many people in that position were not put there by powerful backers or at least became corrupt themselves when given considerable powers? IMHO, socialism would be just as difficult to prefect as any other system because, ultimately, you would have to have individuals with integrity throughout the system. It seems from what I have read that Chavez has a lot of power, which may or may not be a good thing. Usually that kind of consolidation of power turns out badly, that's all I am thinking. But I would LIKE to believe he is really a man of the people, battling against American imperialism, and planning land redistribution, a strong social welfare structure, and advocating a peaceful foriegn policy.

[AllieB]

19. Chavez is not a Marxist

That is right-wing spin. Maybe you should google and do some reading from some objective sources.

[StellaBlue]

27. Re: right wing spin

I don't think 'Marxist' is an entirely negative term. I didn't mean it pejoratively.

Obviously, though, I also didn't mean to mischaracterize his position on the political spectrum.

[StellaBlue]

13. Oh, yeah... and...

I have been trying to explain to right-winger relatives that Chavez WAS legitimately democratically elected (far moreso than the Looter-in-Chief) in internationally-verified elections, and that OUR government has tried multiple times to oust him, fomet rebellions, and probably direcly asassinate him.

So I do know that much. But want to know more.

[Frederik]

21. Chirac has been impliceted in a couple

of corruption scandals, but nothing unusual as far as French politicians go. His predecessor Mitterrand was worse in that regard.

France isn't more corrupt than the US, it's just more openly acknowledged there what's going on.

[MuseRider]

5. Seen it from a distance but

never been there.

I did not know Gabriela was from Venezuela, how did I miss that? Hmmm.

Good luck, I hope you are able to find out. Let us know if you do, I am curious. I wanted so much to make that little trek over there but was left just looking at it.

[zippy890]

9. No, but I hear the President is really popular

with the people!

Something we wouldn't know about.
:hi:

[karlrschneider]

11. I've spent probably a year and a half there total, dozens of trips

from the 70s to the early 90s. Mostly in Caracas which I know and love. Some of the most gentle and kind people I have ever met (and I have travelled to exactly 52 countries.) However, I believe the politics have evolved somewhat since my last visit 10 years ago but I don't think the people themselves have changed all that much. I was always treated with the utmost love and respect...and I'm thinking I should take some time off to visit again when I -want- to rather than being sent on business.

[cire4]

12. Try the lonely planet message boards.....

http://thorntree.lonelyplanet.com/categories.cfm?catid=22

You'll find tons of people who have travelled to Venezuela. Mainly European and Canadians as most people in the USA are probably too afraid and too brainwashed to even consider setting foot in the country (even though its supposedly beautiful).

There's also some great information here:

http://www.virtualtourist.com/travel/South_America/Venezuela/TravelGuide-Venezuela.html

[StellaBlue]

17. Great!

Great idea! Thanks!

I am currently unemployed due to wild, unexpected personal circumstances, but, unfortunately, I also have too little money to travel during this 'in-between' time window that I have! Very frustrating!

I want to go to so many places!!!!!!! Just living in Europe was amazing; getting to travel extensively in places more divergent from our Western thought-mode would be really illuminating, I imagine.

[zippy890]

26. uh, Venezuela is part of Western civilization

I do believe they are predominately catholic, watch television like us, kid go to school, ya know, kinda like us!

[StellaBlue]

33. ...

I was thinking of Japan or China or India. Those are at the top of my list.

[Richard D]

15. I haven't been there personally . . .

. . . but I was just in South America and met a number of people who had been there. All loved it and said it was their best experience in S.A.

[Lindsay]

18. From the outside looking in,

Omar Vizquel is an absolutely awesome human being.

Sum total of my knowledge :shrug: of Venezuela, but he surely does represent well.

[chaska]

25. Aren't they the plastic surgery capitol of the world....

That's the country with all the miss universes, right?

[AllieB]

31. I believe that is Argentina

[chaska]

34. No way. My mother had a friend from Venezuela....

I was struck by how much of a beauty queen she wasn't.

[distantearlywarning]

30. Have a Venezuelan friend

Immigrated here some years back. He's an extremely liberal gay man who is fairly aware of politics.

I am sorry to say that he has a pretty negative view of Chavez and regards him as a dictator. Given my friend's natural political persuasion, I am strongly inclined to feel that this view of Chavez is a "true" one (at least from his perspective as a former Venezuelan) and not motivated in any way by exposure to right wing propaganda.

This, of course, does not mean that Chavez is a terrorist, is planning on doing something bad to the US, shouldn't keep his oil, or anything like that. But maybe a caution that other people's enemies are not necessarily our friends or even good people. It might be just a case of one greedy asshat hating another in terms of his feud with the Bush administration, if you know what I mean.

[Mz Pip]

32. I've been there

Spent 10 days on Margarita, a small desert island about 15 miles off the coast. It has one good sized city that is pretty much a gambling resort and some very hot windsurfing. Gas was about 50 cents a gallon when I was there about 6 years ago.

The place we stayed in used to be a quiet fishing village until the windsurfers came. They put a lot into the local economy in the way of hotels and restaurants but pretty much drove the fish away in the process.

Drinks were $1.

Venezuela has quite an air force. They would practice maneuvers in the morning using the Margarita Airport. Kind of like a Blue Angels show every day.

Caracas Airport was kind of scary. Got hassled a lot just trying to get from one terminal to another. Also, it was the first time I was ever frisked at an airport. First time I ever had my crotch grabbed by security (it was a woman as am I). And they smelled my water.

But drinks were $1.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[StellaBlue]

35. From Wikipedia

On 30 January 2005 at the World Social Forum in Porto Alegre, Brazil, Chávez declared his support for democratic socialism, in his words "a new type of socialism, a humanist one, which puts humans and not machines or the state ahead of everything." He later reiterated this in a February 26 speech at the 4th Summit on the Social Debt held in Caracas. To charges from business leaders that Chávez is eroding private property rights, and from the Roman Catholic cardinal that he was becoming a dictator, he said that Venezuelans must choose between "capitalism, which is the road to hell, or socialism, for those who want to build the kingdom of God here on earth."