Why was the response so slow to Katrina and continues to this very day?

[bpilgrim]

how do you see this playing out for the admin no matter how you voted?

[valerief]

1. I do like all your deliberate reasons

[bpilgrim]

4. as the political geniuse know, if you are obsessed with your image ie Rove

you wouldn't dare flub the 'big-ones', the ones where, everyone is looking at, and especially not after you yourself started drawing attention to it, yesterdays photo-op, yet, they continue to defy conventional wisdom - surprise - by continuing, to prolong this disaster, for some reason, by actively BLOCKING IT, not just by ignoring it, BLOCKING AID.

it boggles the mind, really, good thing we got DU though ;->

:hi:

peace

[valerief]

I realized today

They don't want the poor blacks to amble out to the Bush White counties.

[surrealist]

35. They like anarchy and chaos

They want to make America just like Iraq. That way they can steal everything that's left. Sorry, in a cynical mood today.

[Had_enough_BS]

14. Delay for Aid

It is all about race,money and incompetence, if this was Palm Beach Fl. or any upper middle class area and mostly white in race,help and aid when of been there within hours. The excuse that sniper firing was hindering rescues to be halted is a crock of shit, USA evacuated Saigon,Middle East, Europe and other countries while they were under military fire and combat. If a couple idiots can stop the greatest relief effort in history on our on soil, then we are pathetic for thinking so. If this was a middle class or higher area there would of been no delay. When one of your poorest areas in the USA is ready to be devastated WASHINGTON DC does not give a damn or they would of bused and trained out all the poor, Funny how the chief of staff declares it a diastor area 72 hours before Katrina demolish the gulf coast. I guess he really did not have a plan? or really is a stupid fuck!! Do not use the excuse they were morons for staying, those people cant even get out of there on a good sunny day!!!

[libhill]

26. You made a good point

about the sniping - I realize now why Iraq is such a cluster fuck. Hell, if they can't function under fire in their own country, how the hell can they "hold down the fort" in a Mid East nation, where everyone is shooting at them?

[surrealist]

36. Iraqis frustrated

They created the violence in New Orleans by leaving 25,000 people with no water, no food, no hope, no leadership, no plan, not even any acknowledgment. It's the same game plan they used in Iraq. Look out - your city could be next. Where was Cheney, anyway? Was he busy masterminding the bombing of the levees? He makes me nervous when he disappears. He's up to no good. Maybe in three years they can do this to every major city. Then Bush can declare "mission accomplished."

[libhill]

39. Cheney

gives me the heebie jeebies, the bastard just LOOKS evil. A good candidate for Anti-Christ, right there.

[Is It Fascism Yet]

43. They don't call him "Dick" for nothing you know.

Even his mother calls him that.

[longship]

2. I like deliberate reasons, too.

But I cannot go with deliberate on this.

It was the incompetence of Chimpy McCuckoo and his minions which caused this. It involved the distraction of Iraq, the downsizing of FEMA, the privatization of a tremendous amount of federal infrastructure, the ignorance of science, and, above all, the appalling hubris of a culture of running a country by political hitmanship.

This is incompetence of a level that should lock these baboons up for the rest of their lives.

[bpilgrim]

6. and i like your reasons for incompetence

but why doesn't Rove break open the log-jam now that all eyes are on his boy rather negatively for now?

and why don't our leaders speak up? this is CRIMINAL not to SAVE LIVES and to keep quite about it.

:cry:

peace

[longship]

16. Rove is under the gun and Dem leaders need to keep quiet.

Chimpy is in bi-i-i-i-i-g poo-poo here. Everybody knows it. Rove can do nothing. His trial baloons of pinning this on Mayor and Governor didn't work. The Gov had the documentation to back up her claim; the mayor was splendid in his outrage.

What can Rove do? Now they are trying to say that this was an unforseen event, that nobody could have anticipated this outcome. That's the only thing that they can say. Unfortunately that doesn't work either. FEMA itself published the results of a study in 2001 which made this very prediction. Scientific American ran a major article in 2001 describing this very outcome.

Worse, their usual lapdogs on Faux News are not playing ball. The Faux reporters get in the field and see the death and destruction and they have to report what they see. There's no spin available to them. When the Faux anchors tried to spin it, the field reporter (Shep Smith) makes an angry correction. Hell, even bow-tie boy is talking straight.

So, while all this is happening, the Dems should just make nice and support the people caught up in the tragedy. When they get on the floor of Congress they should fight like dogs to get hearings. In those hearings, everything should be on the table. Once in the hearings and with people under oath, then they should pull the trigger and hang these sons-of-bitches for what they have done.

In the meantime the Dems should sit back and let it all fall apart, which is precisely what is happening.

[bpilgrim]

17. not speaking up to DEMAND this process be sped up is CRIMINAL, too

fyi

peace

[longship]

23. I meant the casting the blame part.

Dems should keep quiet about that now because it's apparent where the blame lies and as long as Chimpy continues to squirm, there's no need to give Repugs a chance to call Dems on politically exploiting disaster.

On the floor of the Congress, that's a different story. Open hearings should be demanded and the Dems need to be tough.

[Is It Fascism Yet]

44. Keep quiet my ass, let 'em scream "Impeach the Sonofva Bush" from the roof

tops.

[libhill]

27. Possibly

Rove and Co. have a new dictator waiting in the wings, and it's time for Bushy to take a fall?

[hwmnbn]

3. I think the outrage and anger.....

will continue to grow. All the attempts at spin and new photo-ops will be counteracted by the tragic images already seen, the escalating body count, and on the site accounts of MSM reporters.

Combined with the Cindy Sheehan tour and the Sept. 24 march on Washington, I think the focus of this anger will be directed on all politicians but especially the chimp.

I know my anger is rising. everyday.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

5. Other.

Indifference!

[bpilgrim]

7. added

thx :hi:

peace

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

8. Then I'm voting, damnit!

:hi:

[laureloak]

9. We would have the support of the world if we forced Bush

to resign. I don't think we should let up on him one little bit.

[omega minimo]

10. TO TEST THE RESPONSE OF AMERICANS TO MISTREATMENT OF THE

disenfranchised, forgotten, overlooked, poor and ill and helpless THE MAJORITY of whom happen to be African American.

If we do not RISE UP and protest this malignant neglect perpetrated on this segment of the population, REST ASSURED that your community will be NEXT.

:puke:

THIS IS THE NEW WORLD ORDER. BUSHCO GOTS TA GO.

[Hello_Kitty]

25. Hey omega minimo!

Great post, as usual. And I agree with you completely. This is conditioning. A drill. They're training the military to target American citizens. And they're letting us know that we'd better learn to accept their fascist corporatocracy, or else. Black people will be the first ones sacrificed, then every other group of "undesirables" will be picked off.

[omega minimo]

38. (Hey CC!) We're all "undesirables" on this bus

That's what lotsa folks don't wanna face-- this WH and this country are run by Big Badness and it don't give a shit about any of us.

This is the last drill. They been drilling this hole in the heart of the nation since Reagan.

[Is It Fascism Yet]

45. Precisely. Exactly. And in the end, anyone not Bushco is undesirable. NT

[libhill]

29. If they can't or won't

deal with a natural disaster, God help us if another act of terrorism on a 9/11 scale occurs. We're all fucked. Except for the wealthy elite, of course.

[bpilgrim]

33. and don't forget, to get the military used to operating in our cities

lot's of folks still going round with blinders on even at this late date.

:hi:

peace

[omega minimo]

37. Good evening Professor. Would. you. like. to. play. a. game?

Hey, the mask is off
The iron is hot
We are pissed
We can honor the suffering of the NOLA survivors. They have given us the gift of this final opportunity.
The scales are falling from the eyes of the bamboozled. They need a little help seeing what they're seeing because the citizens they are looking at are brown-skinned.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4620024

[bpilgrim]

41. recommended

but i ain't no professor, just another punk philly kid ;->

:toast:

peace

[cally]

11. Other...the dismantling of government and inept appointees

I think race/class played a large part but I think the main reason is indifference to government. The bushbots see government as a way to promote their agenda and reward their cronies. They have disdain for government and caring for citizens. I think they had an agenda and message. They have gotten what they want by staying on message and never varying from the script. They weren't able to quickly adjust to the crisis and the reality. I think they handled post 9/11 the same way but the media allowed them to not tell the truth. This time the truth was so evident that it couldn't be spun. (yet)

[fishnfla]

12. Other(s)

1.The delay on Monday. (anyone remember the 'YAY we dodged a bullet', thread?) until the levees broke on Tuesday

2. The widespread nature of the disaster before the levees broke and then wider thereafter

3. Communication breakdown. The overreliance on cellular phone service led to death and destruction

plus the stuff above to be sure

It was a monumental failure across the board

[bpilgrim]

15. the levees started breaking on monday as reported on WDSU's blog at 11 am

i don't have the link handy, hopefully someone does :hi:

peace

[fishnfla]

18. ok see # 3 then

nobody knew about it

Thanks for helping me prove my point

:hi:

[bpilgrim]

19. "nobody knew about it" ??? we knew about it on the web

because the authorities reported it. and issued a cry for emergency help on SUNDAY.


more...
http://news.globalfreepress.com/katrina/Disaster_Relief_Request

but that still doesn't explain why they continue to drag their feet and refuse help to this very hour :shrug:

:hi:

peace

[fishnfla]

24. I fear we are arguing apples and oranges

regarding the levees breaking and communication as a whole. I am talking about events as they happened

The levees broke, whenever. Some people knew about it, some people didnt,,, when they found out, ,,they said they weren't told,,, They said one,,,, when there was,in fact, two,,,, The mayor said the sand bags weren't sent to the levees,,,, when they were,,,, but they weren't put in,,,, because the copters were called off,,,, the copters weren't called off,,,, whomever was in charge figured that wasn't the way to fix the levees,,,it was reported the copters were sent for search and rescue when they weren't,,, THEY SAID THAT LACK OF COMMUNICATIONS WAS HAMPERING EFFORTS

I read all about this on the web :hi:

[bpilgrim]

30. yeah, probably

"The levees broke, whenever" - nevermind

peace

[fishnfla]

34. yes and when the NG troops did show up

the few that did, had no direction. They had no orders from central command, they didn't know what to do. If there was a central command, they had no way to disseminate orders. There was no communication

Why are you being so disagreeable? You should not post polls if you do not respect opinions.

All I'm trying to point out is the value of communication, which I think was sorely lacking. It helped to foment this disaster. We had all the information here in our faces and on our TV's, the people on the ground did not. It made things more difficult at all stages of this disaster.

Maybe, in the future,,,, maybe the next time,,,

ack, ne'er mind

[bpilgrim]

40. sorry, but i ain't buying 5 days of communication problems...

and as i have said, repeatedly, that does not explain actively denying aid or rescuing white people first.

"Why are you being so disagreeable? You should not post polls if you do not respect opinions."

you didn't even know when the levees broke, then you said 'whenever' like that FACT didn't really mean anything... so, i would rather discuss this with someone who takes this ongoing tragedy more seriously.

and now you think it is all due to poor communications when their locations and dire straits have been broadcasted all over the planet for 5 days.

i know there were poor communications inside the city but not for the military or those on the outside.

peace

[WiseButAngrySara]

13. Voted too fast, probably should have voted all of the avove..n/t

[pinto]

20. Incompetence and negligence. I think it puts the screws to Rep. defunding

of FEMA and minimizing the federal role in basic disaster planning/response.

[bpilgrim]

21. but how does that explain the BLOCKING of AID

and the on-going dragging of feet :shrug:

peace

[Darranar]

22. It wasn't really deliberate, but hardly accidental either...

it was the product of apathy towards human beings, of a system of power caring more for property than for lives.

[bpilgrim]

31. they are DELIBERATELY denying and delaying aid to this very our

and i'm certain that it contains "apathy toward human beings, of a system of power caring more for property than for lives." but it is on-going and deliberate.

peace

[Darranar]

32. Oh, now? Of course it is deliberate. Property is in danger...

and even more importantly, the survivors scare those in power.

They are desperate, they are angry, many of them are armed, and they have little left to lose anymore.

I was speaking of the earlier series of betrayals, the ones that gave rise to this desperate situation.

[KnowerOfLogic]

28. Disaster fatigue has set in after 5 years of BushCo running America into

the ground. Too many people just didn't have the energy to deal with one more crisis in the never-ending string of crisises that has existed since Election Theft 2000.

[bpilgrim]

42. kick

peace

[anarchy1999]

46. Kick, Start over and let us reccommend it.

I met someone yesterday who was amazing. This person had driven 1 and 1/2 hours to get to the Peace House just to come and help, maybe she saw one of my pleading messages I sent out. She came to help and to do whatever needed to be done and she lives in a very tiny town. She and her kids had been to Crawford a couple of times during August.

She was amazing, I drove to Austin to get supplies to the tent camp being set up there and she rode shotgun with me, I quite certain she did not get home till sometime after midnight and she was there all day.

I learned in our trip she lurks at DU and has done so for some many months. I encouraged her to join in, she admitted to me she is intimidated to do so because she believes she has nothing she could possibly say or add to our conversations (I think something was said about us being "way to smart). This woman was beautiful. I encouraged her to join in and I hope so much she follows through.


Peace


Bottom Line: I think we have lots of lurkers that are looking for answers and are mightly intimidated by the depth of DU.

As a lurker, this person told me she had only been on the home page for months. Only in the last week or two did she venture into our forums and begin to discover the depth of DU!

DU, once again you all are the absolute best, IMVHO!
Peace, anarchy1999

[anarchy1999]

47. kick

n/t

[Quixote1818]

48. Bush dismantled FEMA and merged it with homeland security

then put in a green horn who worked with Arabian horses to FEMA's main leadership roll. Republicans hate Government and now you see what happens when the Government is dismantled.