The hypocrisy of the right wing

[Walt Starr]

1) Condemn a black man who hotwires an abandoned school bus and dries it to Houston in order to save his people.

2) Condemn a black mayor because there are school buses parked in high water.

So if you're a black man, you're condemned for taking the bus or for leaving the bus sit. You can't win.

[wake.up.america]

1. I asked a very good friend of mine, who happens to be Afro-American...

"How do you put up with this crap?"

He said, "Brother it's hard, but I know God is watching."

[DoYouEverWonder]

7. Then I'm glad

that as one lady that I know told me, that I'm all prayed up. It was one of the biggest compliments anyone ever gave me.

[Lindsay]

2. Heads, you lose.

Tails, they win.

The only damn thing the right wing is good at is fixing the game.

on edit: my brain just woke up.

[MSgt213]

3. The school bus thing I think is a Red Herring. Local governments can't

deal with the evacution effort of 100,000 people. It's straining the Federal Government. So how was a local one supposed to cope with much less limit resources?

[merbex]

4. I started a thread earlier that said the mention of a Cat 4-5 Hurricane

should have triggered a FEDERAL response because all of what was known to be about to happen to NO as a result.

Mention of a Cat 4-5 was the tripwire or should have been - instead the B* administration treated it with a "Call me later"or "leave a message on my voice mail" on how things go - you'll be able to reach me cause I'll check my messages, I might be out of town but I'll get back to you attitude

As I type the above I realize that is exactly how it went down

They have a "call me later attitude"

[theflyscotsman]

5. Err...

It's straining the federal government because the city is a lake. Otherwise, people could just walk right out, like Manhattan after 9/11.

That's why they had an evacuation plan that called for beginning 72 hours before a category 3 or higher was projected to hit, and that specifically called for the use of the buses to get poor people out. Had they taken acton, it would've been *easy* to get everyone who wanted out out. Unfortunately, Nagin just plain didn't do it, and Blanco said (at Mayor Nagin's "I don't want to panic anybody..." conference on the 28th) that the reason the city was finally evacuated at all was because Bush called them up and told them to move.

I don't like Bush anymore than anybody else, but Nagin and Blanco apparently took their duties about as seriously as the King of Mardi Gras. Now, after totally bungling security and screaming for federal intervention, the feds ask to take over, and they say "no" because they realize that if they let somebody else do it, it'll become obvious how badly they failed?

Mississippi, somehow, has done just fine coordinating their work, despite having arguably equal devastation to deal with across a broader area. This is total, systemic incompetence from the one southern state that never made it out of the 1960's. I'm screaming inside.

[fasttense]

6. You contradict yourself.

"I don't like Bush anymore than anybody else."

Oh yeah???

"the reason the city was finally evacuated at all was because Bush called them up and told them to move."

Well Hell thank god for the almighty brush. He took action when???? Oh right five days later. So glad he was on our side otherwise he might have done something sooner. All that playing the guitar and eating cake as the Hurricane destroyed NOL was just show. You know, to show how much he cared about the poor dying folks. And flying the flag at half mast for the poor, Oh wait I mean Rehnquist, that was to show how much he cared. So glad he's on our side. Next time he might just do nothing.

[theflyscotsman]

9. *sigh*

Yeah, let's deny reality here. Blanco isn't the commander-in-chief of the Louisiana National Guard either, so I guess it wasn't her fault when she admitted she thought the disaster would "bring out the best in people" and apparently had never entertained the notion security might be a good idea.

Look, I don't have to like somebody to admit that they did something right. The man ties his shoes every morning, too, and just because someone competent had their hand up his ass like a puppet and made him call Blanco doesn't mean he's a good President. However, it also doesn't make Blanco or Nagin competent.

They waited til, what, 16 hours before the storm hit? I'm surprised Mayor Daley wasn't calling up Nagin to chew him out. This was from Blanco's own mouth: Bush called her on the phone and told her to get it done. I think it says something about how incredibly pathetic the leadership in Louisiana is that they had to get instructions from *Bush* on how to do their jobs. They've done every bit as little as Bush has, especially considering that the Governor is supposed to be the person *on point* in a disaster.

These two brainiacs almost killed tens of thousands through inaction, and the fallout is going to be horrible. I do not understand in the least why some people here seem to think that embracing them is going to help us in the next couple election cycles. We need to round out our criticism a little more, because *everyone* is dirty in this one.

[Walt Starr]

10. Thanks for spewing the reichwing talking points verbatim on this

now I don't have to watch Faux News to get my morning ration of right wing talking points designed to deflect attention from the fact that an incompetent boob appointed incompetent cronies and their mess and failures resulted in the deaths of thousands of poor brown people.

I like how you bravely come to DU to defend the boob.

[theflyscotsman]

23. So, basically...

So, basically, you're saying that the locals have absolutely no accountability here, despite actually being the ones in charge? Is Bush the *only* thing you can see here?

Nagin is an ex-Repug, for God sake. This crosses party lines.

[ET Awful]

24. Once again . . . if BUSH had not CUT THE FUNDING to the Army

Corp of Engineers for REINFORCING THE LEVEES, we would not be having this conversation.

You're goddamn right I hold Bush responsible.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

12. Wow, so it's cool that Bush was eating birthday cake with McCaine in AZ

on the day of landfall, and in San Diego pimping the Iraq war (comparing it to WWII) the day AFTER?

I mean, while we are on the topic of how he did such a great job and all?

The President of the U.S.?

Reports of a Cat 5 storm likely to DIRECT HIT a major American city?

Apparently doing NOTHING to coordinate the FEDERAL response?

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

15. Link to assertion that Bush called her up and told her to 'git 'er done'?

[theflyscotsman]

19. sure

http://www.nola.com/newsflash/louisiana/index.ssf?/base/news-18/1125239940201382.xml&storylist=louisiana

"In the face of a catastrophic Hurricane Katrina, a mandatory evacuation was ordered Sunday for New Orleans by Mayor Ray Nagin.

Gov. Kathleen Blanco, standing beside the mayor at a news conference, said President Bush called and personally appealed for a mandatory evacuation for the low-lying city, which is prone to flooding."

[Walt Starr]

37. I see by your tombstone you are a dead Freeper

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

41. Dude posted some other troll threads a small ways back. His whole

posting career was highly concentrated trolling. I was surprised he was still around to be on this thread.

[merbex]

8. The proper response would have been for the Federal Gov't

to initiate evacuation plans to aid the city of NO

Nationalizing trains,airlifting people. The mayor has an inner city bus system that serves the city of NO. It is not a regional transit system like NY or Boston.

There must be a threshold of a number that requires federal help. The evacuation of a major city requires major resources - more than any mayor has on hand

Even during 9/11 people could use the transit system and/or walk to Staten Island and Brooklyn. Guiliani did not organize the evacuation of NY

You expect too much of a mayor and a Gov who also had Nat'l Guard manpower and resources diverted to Iraq

[Walt Starr]

11. They had all lanes moving out of the city

and were turning back people with cars because there was no way they were going to get out due to the high traffic.

Adding the buses to the mix would have been a worse disaster. The Feds needed to step on when it was requested, on August 28th.

[theflyscotsman]

36. read the plan

...The feds needed to step in on the 28th? The Mayor needed to step in on the 26th, when his own city's plans said he was expected to do so. Then there wouldn't have been freaking chaos trying to get everyone out of the city in one evening!

[theflyscotsman]

14. Governor Blanco didn't have...

...any problem finding National Guard manpower once she was "furious" to discover that some people take advantage of a total lack of authority, did she? Locked and loaded, shoot to kill, she said. State police, cops from other cities, totally absent until the city was burning.

As for evacuating New Orleans, this is the City of New Orleans evacuation plan, on their own website to boot.
http://www.cityofno.com/SystemModules/PrintPage.aspx?portal=46&tabid=26

"Authority to issue evacuations of elements of the population is vested in the Mayor. By Executive Order, the chief elected official, the Mayor of the City of New Orleans, has the authority to order the evacuation of residents threatened by an approaching hurricane."

Those weren't regional buses? They were perfectly capable of getting on the highway and getting *out*. Come on. It was a workable plan, this is why they wrote it, and Nagin didn't even try to use it, waiting until the last minute to even ask people. When he did, he basically said "Well, you know, I don't want to panic anybody, but you should get out." Bold.

[ET Awful]

16. Once again, if you knew what you were talking about, you'd know that

the buses available would have transported less than half of those in need, you would have had massive riots when you had more than 10,000 people trying to get on that last bus.

[theflyscotsman]

20. read the plan

Nagin was supposed to declare 72 hours before the storm (when it was certain to be more than category 3, and 70% likely to be a 4-5). That would've been plenty of time to make *several trips* out of the city. The plan even specifically calls for the buses.

That's *why* the plan was written that way. Had he even started a full 36 hours before, they would've been fine.

The buses didn't even make one trip, because he waited so long that it was probably too late to even fet the drivers.

[ET Awful]

28. So let me get this straight . . . you want him to make return trips AND

have the only legitimate route out of the city with all lanes going in one direction?

That makes a lot of fucking sense, guess they could fly the buses back right?

[theflyscotsman]

34. if they had followed their own plan...

The plan that they wrote up and designed for precisely this contingency, they wouldn't have *had* to have all lanes going out of the city, because there would've been plenty of time.

This isn't hard.

[Walt Starr]

17. More Reichwing talking Points

Why are you even here?

Your boy fucked up big time because he likes watching black people die!

PRIMARY RESPONSIBILITY LIES WITH THE DHS! They say so on their own web site.

That's THEIR fucking Charter.

On the morning of August 28th when Blanco issued her request under the Stafford act, IT WAS A FEDERAL ISSUE!

[theflyscotsman]

25. Don't give me...

...this "your boy" shit, this "you disagree with us so you must be a freeper" makes us look stupid.

No matter how you slice it, the evacuation was Nagin's baby, and the National Guard and state police were Blanco's.

Are you seriously trying to tell me that you think their only responsibility in this was to ask the federal government to get involved? EVERYBODY failed.

[Walt Starr]

26. You're the one spewing Reich Wing talking points in defense of Bush

Don't give me your song and dance. I can see plainly what the fuck you are doing here.

[ET Awful]

13. What a load of unmitigated horseshit.

Easy? Bullshit, they had enough buses to transport less than half of the people who needed to move. The evacuation was ordered in plenty of time. But without the federal assistance, which is THE JOB OF HOMELAND SECURITY AND THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION, there was completely insufficient means to transport that many people.

Bush did NOT call them up and tell them to evacuate, that is also bullshit.

Federal assistance was requested before the storm hit, they were never told "no" I don't know where you get that bologna from.

Mississippi is no comparison, you're talking about small towns and small cities, many of them affluent, and NONE experiencing floodwaters engulfing 80% of the town, so that's also bullshit. Unless of course you consider having roads that are still servicable comparable to having roads that are under water and unpassable. . . in which case it's still bullshit.

Here's another little tidbit of information for you. If the Bush administration had not cut funding for the reinforcing of the levees, we would not be having this conversation. New Orleans would have suffered wind damage and nothing else. The damage facing New Orleans came AFTER THE STORM WAS OVER as a result of failed Levees which are maintained by the Army Corp of Enginners whose budget was cut by the Bush administration. Bush had the gall to tell the nation that there was no way anyone could have foreseen those levees failing, when even DU was talking about the possibility Saturday night and Sunday morning. If we knew the possiblity, Bush sure as fuck knew. His own FEMA administration warned him of it, listing it as one of the top 3 potential disasters that could hit the US in their report of 2001. . . he STILL cut funding to reinforce the levees.

Bush played guitar and golfed while thousands died. That was his response.

[theflyscotsman]

18. "bullshit"?

http://www.nola.com/newsflash/louisiana/index.ssf?/base/news-18/1125239940201382.xml&storylist=louisiana

"Gov. Kathleen Blanco, standing beside the mayor at a news conference, said President Bush called and personally appealed for a mandatory evacuation for the low-lying city, which is prone to flooding."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/03/AR2005090301680.html

"Shortly before midnight Friday, the Bush administration sent her a proposed legal memorandum asking her to request a federal takeover of the evacuation of New Orleans, a source within the state's emergency operations center said Saturday. The administration had sought control over National Guard units, normally under control of the governor. Louisiana officials rejected the request, noting that such a move would be comparable to a federal declaration of martial law...."Quite frankly, if they'd been able to pull off taking it away from the locals, they then could have blamed everything on the locals," said the source, who is an adviser and does not have the authority to speak publicly."

Sorry, but whoever gave the WaPo that quote is high: They admit they're in charge, they say they want to stay in charge, but nothing that went wrong is their fault?

Total CYA.

[ET Awful]

21. Too bad there's the letter from Blanco asking for help prior to that eh?

Good job of doing nothing but defending Bush whose policies of cutting funding in order to reroute the money to Iraq resulted in this disaster.

Keep on lying.

[theflyscotsman]

29. Did I say..

...anything about that?

No, because I agree. The levies should've been fixed. In fact, they should've been fixed 20 years ago. Reagan or Bush I didn't fix them, either, despite this having been a real risk for just that long.

That doesn't change the fact that Nagin could've gotten these people out, and Blanco could've stopped her city from burning til Shrub got there to put on his show with the convoy. They just didn't. I'd cry on camera too.

The logic that we shouldn't blame anybody but Bush because he had the earliest failure is as stupid as freepers saying we shouldn't blame Bush for failing to stop 9/11 because Clinton didn't invade Afghanistan or whatever.

[Walt Starr]

30. Why are you even here?

Seriously, why are you on this site spewing the right wing talking points straight off the blast fax?

Your boy fucked up. Face it. He's a giggling mass murderer. A genocidal maniac.

[ET Awful]

32. Bullshit again.

This situation has NO resemblance to 9/11 (other than the fact that Bush botched both horribly).

There were plans in place to reinforce the levees. Everyone knew the levees needed reinforcing. The project was in action. Bush was informed of the possiblity of a levee breech and the consequences of such breech, he cut the funding and gambled the lives of the entire population of New Orleans.

Once again, it is HIS fault, if he had not cut funding, we would not be having this discussion.

[Walt Starr]

22. You are so full of stinking shit!

The Friday was TWO DAYS AGO. They started trying to SHIFT BLAME THREE DAYS AGO! The fact of the matter is, Bush allowed thousands of black people to die because he wants to pull a Gray Davis on Blanco. They have her seat int heir sights. Your boy is a giggling mass murder for political gain.

Of course Blanco is not going to lie down for Bush's bullshit. He had already proven he was INCOMPETENT for the job!

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

27. Yeah I read the article too. 2 days ago, after the situation is already

an unmitigated disaster...

[theflyscotsman]

31. competence

OK, let's accept your premise. Blanco is white as snow in her motivations for refusing to hand off.

Can you also, for the love of God, accept the smoking cannon that Blanco and Nagin are every bit as big of morons in this one as Bush? (Is anyone here seriously going to try to tell me they think Lousiana is competently led, or has been?)

[ET Awful]

33. Sorry, but someone who comes on here telling us that Bush did a

good job isn't exactly an expert on competence.

[Walt Starr]

38. He's gone now

He sleeps with the other dead Freepers

[ET Awful]

39. I think we should change the tombstone to a fish wrapped

in a bulletproof vest so we can do a Godfather style "he sleeps with the fishes" :evilgrin:

[Walt Starr]

35. No, I don't. There is one person and one person alone

who bears responsibility. George W. Bush.

Your boy is going down.

[solinvictus]

40. Nagin..

Nagin also bears culpability in this disaster as he delayed issuing the evacuation order. The Chimperor's indifference is greater, but Nagin's lack of action deserves blame as well. With all of Nagin's posturing after the fact, it seems to be a "guilty dog barks loudest" situation to cover his own ass.