Language matters: Refugees or victims?

[blondeatlast]

refugee

ref•u•gee

n.

One who flees in search of refuge, as in times of war, political oppression, or religious persecution.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by the Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

victim

vic•tim

n.

(1). One who is harmed or killed by another: 'a victim of a mugging'. (2). A living creature slain and offered as a sacrifice during a religious rite. (3). One who is harmed by or made to suffer from an act, circumstance, agency, or condition: 'victims of war'.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by the Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

At first the term "refugee" appalled me, but after checking the AHD, I'm not so sure anymore. Perhaps they can be used interchangeably (I note those "handling" the situation from the top tend to prefer "refugees," though--showing their true colors (political oppression), perhaps?

[all.of.me]

1. how about 'displaced human being'?

[Cocoa]

2. what is the objection to "refugee?"

I thought it was a neutral term, which seems to apply to the people from NO.

What is the problem people are having with that word?

[justabob]

3. several definitions

I think the objection comes from the word usually being used for people fleeing their country and moving to another.... here in the States our own citizens are fleeing, and seeking refuge, but not going to another country.

on edit: I don't think I said it very well above....Haitians fleeing to the US are refugees, US citizens relocating within the US are evacuees, or dislocated persons, or something else

[Cocoa]

13. evacuees

yes, I think that's probably a better word.

I wonder if news organizations have guidelines about what word to use.

[MSgt213]

4. I think the objection is refugee seems to imply people without a country

While the people of New Orleans loss their city they still are taxpaying people of this country. I have never heard the term used before any other disaster involving citizens of this country. Have you?

[blondeatlast]

5. It's the connotation for me. Mind that I'm a bit nit-picky about language

My connotation (the meaning I PERSONALLY ascribe to the word) is an "other," for instance, I see it as undermining our view of the victims/refugees/etc. as being fellow American citizens, that's why my back goes up when I hear Chertoff use it.

Now that I've gone back and read an official definition of the word, I think refugee fits in nicely. I do see the people in the Southeast as victims of political oppression, as much as my heart aches to believe it.

I just want to get others' thoughts on the use of the two terms. Now that I've looked more carefully, I see they can easily be used interchangeably.

[Cocoa]

10. that's what I was asking for

I knew the word had some connotation for people, but I couldn't figure out what it was.

[patdem]

6. What about 'survivors'..sounds more heroic n/t

[justabob]

7. Survivors is the best word nt

[H2O Man]

8. "Fellow Americans"

was the term Jesse Jackson used yesterday when he asked people not to refer to them as refugees.

[blondeatlast]

19. That's my problem with the use of "refugees"--it implies that

those in NO DON'T BELONG THERE. :shrug:

[KeepItReal]

9. What I wrote to Houston Chronicle

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4598113&mesg_id=4598113

A letter to Houston Chronicle on "Renegade Refugees"


Sent to authors.

Here 'tis:

Words Matter: RE: Hurricane Katrina

Hi,

I am appalled at your choice of words in the article written about people fleeing the disaster of Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans.

I believe the title of the article on your Newspaper's website says it all: "School bus commandeered by renegade refugees first to arrive at Astrodome"

In the article you state: " Jabbar Gibson, 20, said police in New Orleans told him and others to take the school bus and try to get out of the flooded city. "

What in that statement qualifies Mr. Gibson and his passenger as "renegades"? Please explain that to me and the countless numbers of people who read that article.

And though the term "refugees" may be grammatically correct, it should be reserved for people other than American citizens who were *VICTIMS* of a natural disaster and subsequent breakdown of civil services.

As a former resident of both Houston (3 years) - where I read your paper on a regular basis, and New Orleans (6 years), I feel compelled to ask you to at least *try* to be more considerate in your presentation of information. The world is watching and forming its opinions based on the desperately-needed reporting organizations like the Houston Chronicle provide.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Sincerely,
KeepItReal
Los Angeles, CA

cc:
[e-mail]
Scott Clark, Vice President/HoustonChronicle.com
Jeff Cohen, Executive Vice President/Editor

[cynatnite]

11. Why should 'refugee' be reserved for people other than Americans?

I don't understand this at all.

[KeepItReal]

17. N.O. is not facing "war, political oppression, or religious persecution"

Nor is the average American here in the Continental U.S.

[cynatnite]

21. To me it's semantics

Most people see 'refugees' and envision starving and displaced people in other countries. They don't want this country to be a reflection of that no matter the reason for it happening.

Another thing is, too, definitions have a tendency to change over time and I don't think it's much different with this word.

They're refugees, evacuees, victims...whatever words a person wishes to apply.

I honestly don't see why this is such an issue...if anything it helps to raise awareness to how badly this country has deteriorated under the bush regime.

[1932]

12. Although I wish rufugees were something Americans didn't think of as

foreign (in other words, I wouldn't mind if the use of this term to describe Americans would rehabilitate foreign refuegees in the minds of Americans), I appreciate the criticism that the world is part of the RW strategy to make people think of these people as "others." It removes some of the humanity. Most people have sympathy for victims, but not for refugees.

[justabob]

18. exactly

Most people have sympathy for victims, but not for refugees.

Thanks for saying that. It gets right to the heart of it.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

14. I haven't read through the numerous threads here on this, but I honestly

don't see what the big deal is. In my mind, a refugee is someone seeking refuge, which many of those on the Gulf coast most certainly are.

Since it is a term we associate with international catastrophe (not just people fleeing political oppression), if it helps people to equate what has happened here with the international calamities we are used to hearing about, then good.

"We have a million refugees from New Orleans" tends to open people's eyes a bit.

[Spazito]

15. I, too, think of people fleeing their country to go to another when

I see the word 'refugee'. It signals permanent displacement to me. I see those having to leave their city due to a disaster like this are evacuees, it says to me that they will be back once they are able, that it is temporary.

I have been using 'evacuee' in my posts.

[jokerman93]

16. neither refugees nor victims

Displaced Americans. Repeat it. Displaced American Citizens. Nothing less. The point is they are "us" - and that truth must not be diminished. It must be acknowledged by everyone, especially those opportunists who try to shift blame to the displaced and abandoned in all this.

[blondeatlast]

20. I like this. These are our very own people, our brothers and sisters. nt

[Spider Jerusalem]

22. Both refugees and victims.

From the definitive source--the (unabridged) Oxford English Dictionary entry for "refugee":

refugee, n.(rEfju;"dZi;) Also 7–8 refugie.
1. a. One who, owing to religious persecution or political troubles, seeks refuge in a foreign country; orig. applied to the French Huguenots who came to England after the revocation of the Edict of Nantes in 1685.

b. A runaway; a fugitive from justice, etc. rare.

†c. transf. of migratory birds. Obs. rare—1.

d. Someone driven from his home by war or the fear of attack or persecution; a displaced person. Also fig.

2. U.S. A name given, esp. in New York State, to parties of marauders in the American revolutionary war who claimed British protection; = cowboy 2. Obs. exc. Hist.

3. a. Used appositively, as refugee family, scholar, tutor, etc.; refugee capital = hot money s.v. hot a. 12.

b. attrib. Characteristic of a refugee. Also, of or pertaining to a refugee or refugees, as refugee camp, centre, colony, project, style, train.

Hence refu"geeism, the condition of a refugee; refu"geeship, the personality of a refugee. (nonce-wds.)

And for "victim":

victim, n.("vIktIm) Also 5 vyctym, 6–7 victime.
1. a. A living creature killed and offered as a sacrifice to some deity or supernatural power.

b. Applied to Christ as an offering for mankind.

2. a. A person who is put to death or subjected to torture by another; one who suffers severely in body or property through cruel or oppressive treatment.

b. One who is reduced or destined to suffer under some oppressive or destructive agency.

c. One who perishes or suffers in health, etc., from some enterprise or pursuit voluntarily undertaken.

d. In weaker sense: One who suffers some injury, hardship, or loss, is badly treated or taken advantage of, etc.

3. In the phrase to fall a victim to (some thing or person), in preceding senses.

4. attrib. (chiefly appositive) and Comb., as victim beast, carrion, -flock, -hero, horde, -lamb, ox; victim-laden adj.; victim-ship, a ship carrying victims.

Hence 'victim v. trans., to slay in sacrifice.

You can argue about nuance and shade of meaning all you want, both words are apposite to the situation.