Hey Idiot Rethugs: Guiliani Had The Rest Of NYC....

[K8-EEE]

I'm so sick of them acting like oh if Guiliani was there, he would have fed those people. HOW? The whole city was destroyed!! It's so much more destruction than the WTC. How can they say that? What would Guiliani do, loaves and fishes if the Feds ignored him for a week? What bull. I just heard a freeper idiot call CNN about "lessons learned" lesson is that "they didn't have a good mayor." OMG!!

Then this other freeper calls and says, "we can't rely on the government for everything." WHY DO WE FUND THEM THEN? Why fund Homeland Security if you're just on your own in the long run. Give us our money back and we'll deal with it -- don't strap state & local funds for Homeland Security and act like every city should be left on its own in the worst disaster, even if the city is destroyed!

[Nite Owl]

1. I'll give credit to the Ghoul

but it's because he was there, he assumed the leadership role because * was MIA as usual.

[JI7]

5. the equivalent would be Nagin or some other official holding press

conferences. those people then still had homes to go back to and were able to stay updated through the tv and other media sources. any official doing the same as Ghouliani did would not have improved anything and probably just made things worse.

this is the kind of ignorance that just makes me disgusted with freepers and anyone else who say shit like "well , if they had a good mayor".

[bribri16]

19. OK, but tell me what he actually did besides walking the streets with

a megaphone? The organization of the donations and relief were almost spontaneous. Remember, the lack of communication and a central management point was also present in NYC. The firefighters were acting almost on their own as were the police, otherwise so many of them would not have lost their lives just standing on the groun floor of a building that would soon collapse around them. There are videos of showing that they didn't have a clue and virtually no communications. It was Guilani's decision to locate central command the WTC instead away from center city where anyone with a brain would know that is where the attacks would likely take place. It was a stupid, political, macho move just to prove to the "terroists" that after the attack in 1998 the city would not be afraid to rebuild and house important resources in the very site of the first attack.

[JI7]

2. Giuliani did nothing but hold press conferences and tell people to shop

and cover for the failure of the administration which he does till this day. it was Schumer , Hillary and the other people of NY who did the hard work in trying to get something for the city.

most people still had homes to go back to.

but of course this all assumes what happened on 9/11 was a success when it is another example of failure of those in charge.

[FreedomAngel82]

4. Of course

On this other board I go on someone tried to compare the two but someone else and I both chimed in how they were not comparable. Even then Bush was late.

[NYC]

6. There is no comparison

with the single exception that Bush was indeed late. Had better things to do.

Giuliani behaved like a human being for about 3 weeks. How many years did we put up with him? Then, he even tried to get his term extended.

We don't want him back, and we wouldn't wish him on New Orleans.

[aquart]

13. You don't get what the term extension was about?

Why? Because the people you don't like aren't human? He wanted to stay on the job because he couldn't stop. The same way the searchers couldn't stop.

In the same year in which he divorced his wife and battled cancer, a building fell on him and tried to kill him, among others. Giuliani was a dust-covered VICTIM who had suddenly lost FRIENDS of many years.

But you don't like him so he was just being an opportunist. Because it's not possible for the bad people to be in shock, or feel grief, or work like maniacs because they can't face how they'll feel if they stop.

Right?

[JI7]

14. Ghouliani had no dust on him, no building fell on him

and he is an opportunist based on the facts such as him profiting off of 9/11 rather than doing anything to protect the people.

[BronxBoy]

17. Amen

Giulani gets way too much credit. The yeoman's work during 9-11 was performed by the first responders and everyday citizens not Giulani. Thanks God we still had an infrstructure that could respond on that day, unlike NOLA

[aquart]

10. NOT TRUE.

Hate Giuliani for every stupid thing he ever did, but I depended on those press conferences you sneer at. So did my Mom. They were a great reassurance when we didn't know which end was up.

Stop trying to rewrite history to suit your bias.

[JI7]

11. i'm not rewriting anything

he covered up and continues to cover up for the failures of the administration. many people depend on the govt for protection but doesn't mean they are getting what they deserve as can be seen with the hurricane victims and many others. the same is true about Ghouliani.

[alcibiades_mystery]

18. I was in Lower Manhattan on September 11

I lost friends in the WTC. And I was truly dust covered. And I will probably die of cancer from some substances that entered my body that morning.

I'll be happy to correct the historical mythology.

It is absolutely true that Giuliani's press conferences after the danger had passed were of great value. They certainly helped keep us together, and they were quite moving. And Giuliani's work was tireless in the weeks following the attack. Yes, yes, and yes. I'll even agree that some of this should be a credit against eight years of race baiting and undercutting the flavor of the city, eight years of hand-outs to the richest and neglect of the outer boros. Yes.

But leadership during the event? Preparation for the event? No. We only really see how truly slipshod Mr. Giuliani's leadership was during the events when we look at New Orleans. The reactions of the mayors while the danger was ongoing was about the same. The illusion is created simply because the dangerous period of September 11 lasted about 3 hours, while the danger in New Orleans lasted a week. Mr. Giuliani had no control of the situation as it was ongoing. The command and control function was non-existent. For citizens, it was limited to Giuliani's request that people below Canal "go north," declared to a pool reporter on NY1. Giuliani himself was running around, equally in danger, and briefly stuck in a parking garage after the first collapse. No fire fighter, police officer, or EMT who was at the Towers will say that anything like command and control was being exercised. It was catch as catch can. Moreover, in terms of planning, it is quite likely that hundreds of firefighters died unnecessarily due to poor communication equipment. Police officers were not deployed to move people a safe distance from the WTC, and you could watch the fires from the steps of the Church Street Brooks Brothers.

Giuliani's leadership stabilized by about 11 am, but before then was virtually non-existent. When it did appear, it was no so much a coordinating leadership, as an affective leadership: it was primarily a successful tuning in to and shaping of people's emotional response to the events. That's the history as it is documented in many sources, and as I remember it.

I was:

1st plane hits WTC 1: Chambers & Broadway
2nd plane hits WTC2: Broadway and Wall Street (Trinity Church)
WTC 2 collapses: South Street and Old Slip
WTC 1 collapses: FDR Drive on ramp to Brooklyn Bridge

a_m

[Princess Turandot]

21. People forget that on 9-11, no one had any idea what was going on..

personally, I only saw Tower 1 collapse while looking thru the window of a hospital where I worked. The hospital response seemed pretty effective to me: we had an emergency crisis plan in place coordinated with the city in prior years along with every other hospital in the city. Minutes after the first tower was hit we went into the emergency crisis command system. Everyone who did not do clinical work was pre-set to a different task: answering phones, assisting the dietary department in preparing food. We recorded 9,000 incoming phone calls on the afternoon of 9-11 and had 100's of the walking wounded show up, some for physical care, some for emotional care. After the city's emergency response offices were destroyed in the tower collapse, within a few hours a new one was in place, across the street from where I was working.

There was no hurricane.There was no flooding. There was a huge fire and an astonishing amount of debris spread over lower Manhattan, as if it had been hit by an atomic bomb. But how did anyone know that nothing else was going to blow-up? And there were probably 10 million people who could have freaked out and tried to flee NYC, which frankly would have been pretty difficult since only the Lincoln Tunnel & the GWB were available at that point. Imagine a stampede to Amtrak or to the Lincoln Tunnel and how many people could have died if that had happened. Giuliani set a tone that somehow prevented the panic from setting in once people processed what had happened IMO. Without it, NYC could have wound up looking like the set of "Escape From New York". Would Koch have managed that with one of his jokes? Dinkens? Beame? It was Giuliani's authoritarian personality which made some people dislike him while mayor and made many people trust him on 9-11.

I feel terrible for the people of New Orleans. But this recent dismissive attitude towards 9-11 that some people (I don't mean you; I just posted this response here) feel compelled now to opine is as offensive as blaming the victims of the Hurricane for causing their own problems because they were too poor to leave the area.

[Lindacooks]

3. You are absolutely right.

Blaming New Orleans and LA for lack of response is like blaming an accident victim with two broken arms who doesn't lift an injured person out of the next car.

[CityDem]

7. Bush was AWOL both times

Bush was AWOL for 9/11 and in NOLA. The guy has skated his entire life.

[aquart]

8. Nobody still alive in NYC missed a meal.

In fact, the downtown restaurants started cooking for the rescuers.

It was terrible, and I still have the emotional scar, but it was a pinprick to what happened in New Orleans. The families of the dead mourned in their own homes. I doubt they considered that a piece of good fortune at the time, but if someone asked them now?

[walldude]

9. Typical freeper logic

"Can't rely on the government." Except to steal money earmarked for repairing and strengthening the leeves to pay for reconstruction in a country we shouldn't have invaded in the first place. And then managed to "lose" 8 billion of those reconstruction dollars. This administration is criminal.

[eleny]

12. Picture NYC 70% flooded with water...

I can. I was born and raised there. I was there for blackouts, horrible weather and budget troubles. Yes, there's bad but more good things can happen when people pull together.

But flooded to the gills, no power, raw sewage in the streets from the Bronx to Wall Street, from the East Side of Manhattan to Queens? Oh yeah - Rudy. :rofl:

[misanthrope]

15. That's like comparing...

...the OK City bombing to Hiroshima.

9-11 and Katrina aren't even in the same ballpark.

[sandnsea]

16. Nobody turned away HELP

All help was allowed into NYC, NOBODY has been allowed to help ANYWHERE in the south. I don't understand this, first responders are being told to stay away until FEMA asks for them. Red Cross isn't allowed in. FEMA trucks of water and ice sit idle. Maybe they do want to figure out how to dump FEMA and keep all that money for the DHS contractors, er, Halliburton. I don't know. I don't understand this one at all.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

20. maybe Rudy can coordinate the bulldozing and relocation of all the

debris to Asia.

he's good at that ya know. "The Cleanup".