Please help me better understand some things with New Orleans

[political_invader]

We have all heard numerous accounts through out the media that the flood water is contaminated with all kinds of bad things ie. ( ecol, chemicals, and other bacterias).

My question is in several parts:

1. The water is draining where? back into the lake which it has come?

2.If this water is as bad as they say which i'm not doubting it is what effects will this have to the eco-system? and for how long?

3. How will this effect the re-building of the city?

These questions may well be way out in left field, but after talking to some friends this evening no one seems to be talking about anything other than we must drain out the water. I am truly afraid there has been yet another small detail missed and going to have extremely long term affects.

Thank you for your patience.

Peace from a Blue STATE

[ananda]

1. synchronicity

I just expressed these same concerns on another thread.

That water is so fucking toxic, and it's going directly into the lake and the soil. Even breathing the air is dangerous because of bacteria from the water.

Sue

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

2. ..

1. Yes, back into Lake P., as I understand it.
2. Since there's a lot of oil, bacteria, crap in the water, probably nothing good. Other DUers might have link to ecological info. Not sure what precedents exist for this.
3. Clearing the water out would be a necessary precondition to ANY rebuilding. I would imagine the crap water/poison lake would be a severe problem to reestablishing NO. Not sure where their drinking water came from...

[chalky]

3. Good questions. Lord forgive me, but my first thought was,

"This had better not be another 'why weren't the buses used' thread".

But you're right--what effects will this poisonous brew have on the ecosystem?

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

4. Yes I was cringing as I opened the thread too... heh

[SammyWinstonJack]

14. I figured it would be about the Gov or Mayor or buses.

:yoiks:

[shraby]

5. The water is being drained into the lake,

you're right. I think it then goes into the Gulf. It will probably have a devastating effect on the eco-system. Experts will have to sort that out for us.
Most homes that had that terrible water in them will most likely have to be destroyed. If the city can be cleaned, it can probably be rebuilt but it will take literally years.
Just my thoughts on the situation.

[TankLV]

22. There are already reports of totally dead areas of the sea in the gulf

areas that are totally devoid of any life, oxygen, etc. - void or EVERYTHING - plants and animals alike - this will only make it worse.

[niyad]

6. was covered on msnbc this afternoon.

the water is HIGHLY toxic, loaded with e coli bacteria, just for starters.

The EPA gave special permission to pour this toxic stew back into Lake Pnchartrain without and sort of treatment, so it is going to poison the lake, and the bayous, and the gulf as they drain some of the water into the marshes, etc. it was stated (as if we didn't know this already) that it is a HUGE ecological and public health disaster in the making.

It was pointed out that all of the first responders, all the people helping, the reporters, etc. are at risk.

[Oilwellian]

7. The water...

will eventually wind up in the Gulf of Mexico. I saw on the news tonight that the EPA signed a waiver allowing the toxic water to be dumped back into the lake. When I was watching the footage of the water being pumped, I turned to my husband and told him we're watching the next catastrophe in progress. It reminded me of "don't drink the water in Mexico" only ours will be "don't eat the seafood."

[tedoll78]

9. Yup.

I won't be eating seafood for a while. Unless it's certified to come from Asia. They have good shrip in Korea.. yummy!

[Sgent]

8. Here's my go...

1) It will go back into lake Pontchatrain. Lake P is actually misnamed -- its an inland bay. The water will eventually make it through the wetlands of LA and into the Gulf of Mexico.

2) This will have a devestating effect on Lake P. After years of cleanup efforts, Manetees have started returning in the last few years, as well as redfish, sea turtles, etc. Fishing and swimming are now doable, and there was even talk of reopening Pontchatrian Beach.

3) The water must be eliminated to start rebuilding. Putting it through the Mississippi River (only other option), would be worse, as it would go through more wetlands, and it would taint the drinking water source of NOLA.

NOLA gets its drinking water from the MS River. Its a horrible source of water -- tastes like crap, has to have upteen million chemicals put into it to clean it, etc. NOLA is one of the origins of the bottled water craze -- its been available there since the '70s.

[TexanDem]

15. NOLA drinking water is no good.

That's why they're forcing evac now. Got breaking news a few minutes ago from CNN -- that they will force people to leave. The tap water is too contaminated.

[charlie]

10. Rock and a hard place

Dumping it into the lake is certainly going to blight the local ecosystem and create problems for the recovering city. But dumping it into the ocean will exacerbate the huge and growing dead zone that Mississippi runoff has created in the gulf.

[Field Of Dreams]

11. Interview I saw tonight...

I think it was somebody who was with FEMA previously (not Witt)who said current FEMA officials are totally incompetent for not considering these concerns before draining water back into lake.

[Swamp Rat]

12. Lake Ponchartrain will be a toxic soup of oil, asbestos, sulfur, bacteria.

We're fucked. Look for lots of birth defects and a spike in cancer cases... among other horrible things. :cry:

[TexanDem]

13. contamination goes to the Gulf

Heard a eco expert this afternoon -- don't remember what channel, watching too much TV. But said now that town is virtually empty of people where the conamination will be, it's dangerous to those already exposed to it, that to now dump it into the Gulf will expose now so many, many more people to the hazards of it, yet another debacale. But that was the end of his time. I would have liked to hear his solution since they have to do something with the muck. I heard another expert a few days ago suggest it could be purified before pumping out, but I guess time and money would make that prohibitive. We will not be hearing the end of this anytime soon I'm afraid. I live in SE Texas; so maybe I should go kiss my beaches good-bye too.

[BrklynLiberal]

19. Thermal Depolymerization

[BootinUp]

16. The oil and gas and other man made chemicals

are probably the worst of the contaminants but the way I look at it is that this is not much different in terms of components than normal storm runoff, the difference is the concentration. The e. coli again is common in untreated water, but in standing water like this it is multiplying and now the concentration is getting relatively high.

Not sure of the impact, if it dilutes down to near normal levels in the lake then I guess the impact will be minimal.

[chalky]

17. Just saw this thread with a link to an MSNBC article.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4673280

The brew of chemicals and human waste in the New Orleans floodwaters will have to be pumped into the Mississippi River or Lake Pontchartrain, raising the specter of an environmental disaster on the heels of Hurricane Katrina, experts say.

The dire need to rid the drowned city of water could trigger fish kills and poison the delicate wetlands near New Orleans and the Gulf of Mexico at the mouth of the Mississippi.


And I'm with the poster. I'm not eating anything out of that gulf.

Not that I ever did.

At least I don't think I did.

[BrklynLiberal]

18. Thermal Depolymerization

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2068879&mesg_id=2068950

Can it take on the diversity of impurity it will encounter in NO?
TDP can handle anything except radioactives.
The heat even kills the prions that cause mad cow disease.


and along with the oil (something like a light crude #4 IIRC), it produces sterilized water.

For the naysayers who say the Dems never have any new ideas, I think this one's a winner.

http://www.kantor.com/useful/thermo.shtml

Thermodepolymerization -- or "thermal depolymerization" -- is a process that converts stuff into oil. And by "stuff" I mean just about anything: garbage, medical waste, animals and animal parts (e.g., cows with mad-cow disease, or offal from chickens that have been made into McNuggets), used computer parts, tires, and so on, seemingly ad infinitum.

This is not just a theoretical process. It is real, out-of-the-lab stuff happening on an industrial scale. It's being done by ConAgra Foods in Carthage, Missouri -- at one of the company's Butterball Turkey plants, where up to 200 tons of turkeys are being turned into oil every day.

Once more: This is real stuff. Garbage is being turned into oil by a process that's safe, clean, and in use today.

Essentially, thermal depolymerization or TDP mimics a process the earth itself uses to 'process' what gets buried and break it down. Over millions of years, heat and pressure break the bonds that hold these waste products together. TDP accelerates the process. The leading company doing TDP is Changing World Technologies of West Hempstead, N.Y.

[chalky]

20. Thanks for these links. I was just discussing alternate fuel sources

(hydrogen peroxide, biodiesel) with a friend today.
Glad to have this to forward on.

[BrklynLiberal]

21. You are welcome. This sounds fascinating to me.

[markus]

23. Ok

1. Yes.

2. Very, very, very bad. Don't plan on eating oysters for a few years.

3. The sooner the water is out, the better for the city.