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KaryninMiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-05 11:06 AM
Original message
Received today from someone on the "other team"....
Here's what I received today from someone I know who is clearly on the other side of the fence. I'm not sure where exactly he copied these from, but it appears to be from an email he's received from his side of the story. I am about to email him my responses back, but welcome your suggestions on any of the points below. I want to clearly address what is true with facts and what is bullshit created by the Rove machine (and others) to avoid being responsible.

Sorry it's so long. His comments appear to be intersperced with the AP piece at the bottom (unless someone can find an AP piece that is so clearly judgemental)...

Thanks!

Subject: Chain of Responsiblity

In case you aren't familiar with how our government is SUPPOSED to work:
The chain of responsiblity for the protection of the citizens in New Orleans is:

1. The Mayor
2. The New Orleans director of Homeland Security (a political appointee of the Governor who reports to the Governor)
3. The Governor
4. The Head of Homeland Security
5. The President

What did each do?

1. The mayor, with 5 days advance, waited until 2 days before he announced a mandatory evacuation (at the behest of the President). The he failed to provide transportation for those without transport even though he had hundreds of buses at his disposal.

2. The New Orleans director of Homeland Security failed to have any plan for a contingency that has been talked about for 50 years. Then he blames the Feds for not doing what he should have done. (So much for political appointees)

3. The Governor, despite a declaration of disaster by the President 2 DAYS BEFORE the storm hit, failed to take advantage of the offer of Federal troops and aid. Until 2 DAYS AFTER the storm hit.

4. The Director of Homeland Security positioned assets in the area to be ready when the Governor called for them

5. The President urged a mandatory evacuation, and even declared a disaster State of Emergency, freeing up millions of dollars of federal assistance, should the Governor decide to use it.

Oh and by the way, the levees that broke were the responsibility of the local landowners and the local levee board to maintain, NOT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

The disaster in New Orleans is what you get after decades of corrupt (democrat) government going all the way back to Huey Long.

Funds for disaster protection and relief have been flowing into this city for decades, and where has it gone, but into the pockets of the politicos and their friends.

Decades of socialist government in New Orleans has sapped all self reliance from the community, and made them dependent upon government for every little thing.

Political correctness and a lack of will to fight crime have created the single most corrupt police force in the country, and has permitted gang violence to flourish.

The sad thing is that there are many poor folks who have suffered and died needlessly because those that they voted into office failed them.

For those who missed item 5 (where the President's level of accountability is discussed), it is made more clear in a New Orleans Times-Picayune article dated August 28:


NEW ORLEANS (AP) - In the face of a catastrophic Hurricane Katrina, a mandatory evacuation was ordered Sunday for New Orleans by Mayor Ray Nagin.

Acknowledging that large numbers of people, many of them stranded tourists, would be unable to leave, the city set up 10 places of last resort for people to go, including the Superdome.

The mayor called the order unprecedented and said anyone who could leave the city should. He exempted hotels from the evacuation order because airlines had already cancelled all flights.

Gov. Kathleen Blanco, standing beside the mayor at a news conference, said President Bush called and personally appealed for a mandatory evacuation for the low-lying city, which is prone to flooding. (emphasis mine)

The ball was placed in Mayor Nagin's court to carry out the evacuation order. With a 5-day heads-up, he had the authority to use any and all services to evacuate all residents from the city, as documented in a city emergency preparedness plan. By waiting until the last minute, and failing to make full use of resources available within city limits, Nagin and his administration screwed up.

Mayor Nagin and his emergency sidekick Terry Ebbert have displayed lethal, mind boggling incompetence before, during and after Katrina.

As for Mayor Nagin, he and his profile in pathetic leadership police chief should resign as well. That city's government is incompetent from one end to the other. The people of New Orleans deserve better than this crowd of clowns is capable of giving them.

If you're keeping track, these boobs let 569 buses that could have carried 33,350 people out of New Orleans-in one trip-get ruined in the floods. Whatever plan these guys had, it was a dud. Or it probably would have been if they'd bothered to follow it.

As for all the race-baiting rhetoric and Bush-bashing coming from prominent blacks on the left, don't expect Ray Nagin to be called out on the carpet for falling short. You want to know why? Here's why:

It's more convenient to blame a white president for what went wrong than to hold a black mayor and his administration accountable for gross negligence and failing to fully carry out an established emergency preparedness plan.

To hold Nagin and his administration accountable for dropping the ball amounts to letting loose the shouts and cries of "Racism!". It's sad, it's wrong, but it's standard operating procedure for the media and left-wing black leadership.

Mark my words: you will not hear a word of criticism from Jesse Jackson Sr., Randall Robinson, the Congressional Black Caucus, the NAACP, or Kanye West being directed toward Clarence Ray Nagin Jr. Why? Because he is just another black politician instead of a responsible elected official who happens to be black. In the mindset of more-blacker-than-thou blacks, black politicians who are on their side can do no wrong.












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thedailyshow Donating Member (695 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-05 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
1. chain mail letter full of lies
we need a chain mail letter full of the truth to debunk the lies in this one. To the original poster, please click on "reply all" when you debunk this one.
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-05 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
2. Typical whitemaleconservative tripe
Don't worry about it.

When Hillary gets in there in 2008, they will all be sent off to camps for re-education.
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-05 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #2
25. Hillary won't be there in 2008
Sorry.
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OrlandoGator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-05 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
3. You can't predict landfall location of a hurricane 5 days out.
I've lived in Florida my entire life. That's just bullshit.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-05 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #3
17. Five days out, the predictions were of it running up the west
coast of Florida, hitting land around Pensacola.

That's what I remember from the Weather Channel.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-05 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
4. You should have done a search.
Someone posted the same drivel from some other bushbot. It is making it's rounds including her eon DU.
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progmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-05 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
5. ...
:puke:
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confludemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-05 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
6. Not worth responding to this shit. Murderous negligence after flood by GWB
which is the main problem. Anything else is a bullshit smokescreen.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-05 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #6
21. On the contrary, we must respond.
We already have the information to debunk it, is anyone already on this one?
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LSK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-05 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
7. this has been posted here yesterday
Not a whole lot of proof for their claims.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-05 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #7
22. Proof doesn't matter to them. They make simple little statements
that their people can repeat at water coolers. Then it becomes fact if no one refutes it.
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rawtribe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-05 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
8. here
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I Have A Dream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-05 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #8
26. This is some really great stuff.
Thanks for posting it, rawtribe.
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whatever4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-05 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
9. I guess the locals were in charge of denying international assistance?
International assistance from HOW many other countries? I lost count. I guess the locals were in charge of the United States military? The ships, the helicopters, the troops who REALLY wanted to get in? I guess the locals were in charge of the federal funds for the levees too?

I guess the feds are only in charge when it goes right, and are powerless when things go wrong. Frankly, I'm surprised he takes this tact. It means, basically, that the feds are powerless overall. Guess the feds aren't worth much in any case, because why have federal government at all, if they can't be expected to plan to safeguard half a million people. The entire gulf cost and all it's infrastructure...sure...that's local.

Good luck with him, best wishes to you :)
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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-05 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
10. Walt Starr's post is the perfect reply
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-05 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. Along with the standard reply to any of these stupid emails
"Prove it."
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txaslftist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-05 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
11. Don't bother replying.
This guys too far on the other team if he's sending you this shit.

Let the other team have him, count him a loss and (depending on the strength of your views), find other friends.

You can find 'em here.
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terip64 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-05 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
12. Simply ask if he feels safer now.
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Qibing Zero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-05 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
13. Holy shit, I wouldn't even know where to begin with THAT.
Just lie after lie after... oh wait, that one's a racist lie.
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Beaver Tail Donating Member (903 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-05 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
15. Wrong, Wronger and Wrongest
Edited on Wed Sep-07-05 11:20 AM by Beaver Tail
1. The mayor, with 5 days advance, waited until 2 days before he announced a mandatory evacuation (at the behest of the President). The he failed to provide transportation for those without transport even though he had hundreds of buses at his disposal. - (FALSE Transport was avaliable and a 1-800 number was supplied for pick up)

2. The New Orleans director of Homeland Security failed to have any plan for a contingency that has been talked about for 50 years. Then he blames the Feds for not doing what he should have done. (So much for political appointees) - FALSE - FEMA has run many drills in case of such an event and failed to follow through on the plans that were devised during these drills)

3. The Governor, despite a declaration of disaster by the President 2 DAYS BEFORE the storm hit (FALSE - Request was made the 26th, 5 days before the storm hit), failed to take advantage of the offer of Federal troops and aid. Until 2 DAYS AFTER the storm hit. (TRUE - But becasue FEMA would not allow assistance to begin, not becasue she rejected help)

4. The Director of Homeland Security positioned assets in the area to be ready when the Governor called for them - FALSE (FALSE - FEMA was not in place until September 1st and did not start assisting until September 2nd, this includes turning away volunteers who came to help).

5. The President urged a mandatory evacuation, and even declared a disaster State of Emergency, freeing up millions of dollars of federal assistance, should the Governor decide to use it. - (TRUE - He urged mandatory evacuation AFTER the Mayor called for mandatory evacuation on Aug 28th at 9:30 a.m.)
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blonndee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-05 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
16. When you respond, don't forget the "reply to all"! nt
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Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-05 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
18. I got a similar crap
email yesterday from a Bushbot acquaintance who was repeating talking points she'd heard on Faux.

This was my response:

"The Bush Administration is admonishing others for "playing the blame game", all the while trying to spin this as the fault of the mayor of New Orleans and the governor. The National Response Plan, http://www.dhs.gov/interweb/assetlibrary/NRPbaseplan.pdf, includes the following:

The Guiding Principles for Proactive Federal Response include the following:


The primary mission is to save lives; protect critical infrastructure, property, and the environment; contain the event; and preserve national security.

STANDARD PROCEDURES REGARDING REQUESTS FOR ASSISTANCE MAY BE EXPEDITED OR, UNDER EXTREME CIRCUMSTANCES, SUSPENDED IN THE IMMEDIATE AFTERMATH OF AN EVENT OF CATASTROPHIC MAGNITUDE.

Identified Federal response resources will deploy and begin necessary operations as required to commence life-safety activities.

Notification and full coordination with States will occur, BUT THE COORDINATION PROCESS MUST NOT DELAY OR IMPEDE THE RAPID DEPLOYMENT AND USE OF CRITICAL RESOURCES.

State and local governments are encouraged to conduct collaborative planning with the Federal Government as a part of “steady-state” preparedness for catastrophic incidents.

FEMA not only failed to carry out its required responsibilities, they even prevented others from coming in to help, and many died who could have been saved had they done what they were supposed to do."

Obviously, she was unable to refute the facts, and simply changed the subject in her next email. I live in an uberconservative region, and whenever I get reich wing BS emails, I always debunk them with facts. If it's a forwarded email, I reply to all.



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JimmyJazz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-05 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
19. This e-mail effectively blames the Republican governors of
Mississippi and Alabama since they haven't received the help they needed, either. Didn't Joe Scarborough say just last night that he and his wife visited a shelter in Alabama and the people there said Joe and his wife were the first people they have seen? No one from FEMA or the Red Cross has yet to arrive. So, if you wanna blame the Democrats in Louisiana, it seems you have to apply the same standard to the Republicans in Mississippi and Alabama. :shrug:
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-05 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
20. Can I ask someone an honest question?
why do people post this crap? They know is it crap, why inflame or post these negative pieces? What is learned or merited by these articles?
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-05 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #20
24. Actually, I just bookmarked this thread so that when I am emailed a copy
of it - I can hit "reply all", copy and paste the debunking information and shut them up.
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WePurrsevere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-05 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
23. Please post your response when you're done...
I can certainly understand the need to debunk this stuff. From what I've seen over the years if we just let it slide it continues to grow bigger. Dems NEED to take a stance and fight SPIN with stright forward no BS TRUTH and FACTS. The Rep have grown way to accustomed to our rolling over and playing "nice" while it's time to take off the gloves and for EVERY LIE they tell CALL them ON IT IMMEDIATELY and KEEP telling it.... over and over again. Send it out via email... write the media... put up websites with the info and use Google to get the word out. Heck use eBay to get the word out by using ART as Protest.

::warning rant ahead::
I was bullied horribly as a pre-teen and was told over and over... "just ignore them".. well it didn't work. When my daughter started getting bullied I told her to stop running away and to STAND UP TO THEM.. she finally did and they ran off like the Chickenhawks they were (and probably still are). There is a time to lie low and a time to take a stand... I'm TIRED of the bullying neo-CON behavior and as far as I'm concerned NOW is most certainly the time to take a stand (if not PAST the time) ... We MUST fight the SPIN, get the TRUTH out and stop being a flippin doormat.
:rant:

Thank you for taking the time and having the courage to respond. :)

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Spangle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-05 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #23
31. Oh... I agree with your rant.
Been there done that. The kids didn't lay off me either, cause I didn't believe in volience at all.

Made my kids follow the rule as well. My middle child was being ragged really bad. Until my eldest let me have it big time. Told me that by NOT fighting back, it was putting a label on them and EVERYONE would pick on them so that they would look bad. Without fear.

Sounds pretty much like the Republicans now days. The don't expect anyone to come back at them. They think that everyone agrees with what they are saying because of the response during the "Clinton Years." They will say the STUPIDEST things in public. And they will keep doing it.. until we stop being "polite" and be just as rude.
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Catchawave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-05 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
27. RW talking points ?
I'm getting this baloney from all my conservative friends too. I'm sure Rove wrote it :banghead:
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lateo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-05 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
28. Here is a timeline of responsibility.
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Spangle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-05 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
29. For those who say "Ignore it."
WRONG answer.

Silence is agreement.

Right now there are MANY who really do want the truth. They are not political hacks out there just to "support" their political party. They want to know the FACTS. No polictical BS needed. They are not going to listen to anyone when they start that direction.

This e-mail is written in a language (world education level) that everyone can understand. It doesn't talk OVER people. IT's not to "techie", it's not to detailed. So it's not "hard to grasp" or remember.

A response is needed. Short, simple and direct. No rude comments or belittling comments. Nothing that anyone would be embarrased to pass on.

People ARE asking these questions. I'm getting GOOD people that are hearing one or two of these things and they want to know the TRUTH. They are NOT intrested in politics. Some of these things, if you don't know much about it.. sounds very true. And very reasonable. Only those of us who follow past the headline, who UNDERSTAND Politics, who pay attention to what the "law" says, etc.. Have the information to see the BS.

I don't care WHO sends such an e-mail to you. Respond with a "apply all." You sould be getting enough of the same type of crap to have a ready response ready anyway. Just update it as needed. ;)

The add a note that if they have any further questions feel free to e-mail you personaly.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-05 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
30. Uhm I believe they got something wrong
The chain of command always ALWAYS starts and stops with the president. The mayor and governor only has so much power. The president of the United States has all of the power.
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zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-05 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
32. Send back the text (and the link to it) of the White House declaration
of the role FEMA took over:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/20050827-1.html

"The President's action authorizes the Department of Homeland Security, Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), to coordinate all disaster relief efforts"

plus

"Specifically, FEMA is authorized to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency."

Not that the slopehead would accept facts . . .
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