Bush Violated USMCJ SECTION 892. ART. 92. FAILURE TO OBEY REGULATION

[berni_mccoy]

By FAILING to respond to the declaration of EMERGENCY, Bush Failed to OBEY U.S. Law's that he, as the Commander in Chief, is Bound by U.S. Military Code of Justice to Obey:

The law states (from http://www.military-network.com/main_ucmj/SUBCHAPTERX.html#892.92) :

892. ART. 92. FAILURE TO OBEY ORDER OR REGULATION

Any person subject to this chapter who--

(1) violates or fails to obey any lawful general order or regulation;

(2) having knowledge of any other lawful order issued by any member of the armed forces, which it is his duty to obey, fails to obey the order; or

(3) is derelict in the performance of his duties; shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

With THIS, we do NOT NEED Impeachment to remove him from office... he can be brought up on COURT MARTIAL by any officer of the Military, as CAN most of the Secretaries that are in the Chain of Command.

edit: added link

[Tace]

1. Let's Roll, Gentlemen

You know who you are.

[cthrumatrix]

60. wishful thinking....tell that to all the rethugs and his protectors

[Catch22Dem]

2. Incorrect

The CinC is not bound by the UCMJ. We Democrats made this ABUNDANTLY clear during the Lewinski shit.

[berni_mccoy]

3. Show me where the President is not bound by UCMJ please...

[DistressedAmerican]

5. No, You Made The Claim. Show Me Where He Is Bound By It!

[berni_mccoy]

6. He's the commander of the military. He can give illegal orders

or be derelict in his duty like any other member of the military.

If Chiefs of Staff can also be members of the Military, then so too can cabinet level members, including the President.

[Catch22Dem]

8. Chiefs of Staff ARE military members

Cabinet secretaries are civilians.

[jmowreader]

9. The Chiefs of Staff are four-star generals

Besides, there are plenty of civilian laws to bust Chimpy on.

[bowens43]

12. He is not a member of the military.

[berni_mccoy]

36. Civilian Control of Military does NOT IMPLY Pres is Civilian

From Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_control_of_the_military

United States
In the United States, Article Two of the United States Constitution makes the President the Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces. But the War Powers Clause gives Congress the power to declare war. The War Powers Resolution, a law passed by Congress in 1973, attempts to establish more concrete guidelines about what situations require Congressional vs. Presidential approval, setting certain time limits and requirements for consultation.

The Posse Comitatus Act, passed in 1878 prohibits federal military personnel from engaging in domestic law enforcement activities, with certain exceptions, typically involving states of emergency, domestic unrest, and natural disasters.

The military is strongly loyal to the President, but also to the Constitution and the democratic processes it provides for.

[FreedomAngel82]

55. Uh what?

He is the commander in chief.

[Catch22Dem]

66. But not a member of the military (n/t)

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

74. Agreeing, unfortunately.nt

[Catch22Dem]

7. Exactly

I'm sure you remember every freeptard wanting to bust Clinton for adultury under the UCMJ. It was proven a zillion times over that the President is not subject to rules under the UCMJ. So, to the original poster, as DistressedAmerican pointed out, you made the claim, prove the (p)Resident is subject to the UCMJ and I'll retract my statement. Hoever, I'll give you a hint where to start. The president is a civilian.

[Spangle]

14. Were were YOU during the Clinton years?

LOL! As I see it, it was a FYI not to was time in that direction. Good idea, but won't fly.. sorta thing.

However, I do remember.. and he is correct. The Freepers brought up the subject about Clinton should have to stand in Military court. OVER and OVER again. It was always shown that he wasn't a member, but the commandor.. the rules didn't apply.

But if YOU want to take this charge and run with it, go ahead.

[MADem]

20. Because the UCMJ only applies to UNIFORMED SERVICE MEMBERS

You cannot punish civilians in control of the military under the UCMJ, though it would be nice in this particular case. Rummy could stand up with him in that case.

No, sorry to say, it is the role of Congress and when appropriate, the Justice Department to mete out punishments for those folks.

[berni_mccoy]

22. Civilians CAN be prosecuted under UCMJ

Read the "Those Subject to UCMJ" post below.

If the Civilians are working *with* military, they can be.

Also, Bush expanded the use of the UCMJ to civilians after Sept. 2001.

[MADem]

34. No, no, no, you misunderstand the restrictions

If you are in a prison camp held by the military, sure. If you are in a remote assignment as a civilian contractor and sign a document saying that by taking the job you submit to military control, you are subject to it--but you have to agree to it, unless you are a prisoner. It is very rarely used in this regard vis a vis American citizens, it is why sometimes civilians get in major trouble overseas and the foreign government hands them back to the military, thinking they are gonna take care of it, and the bum gets away with a crime with nothing more than a firing. Years ago, there was a proposal to put a circuit rider judge out in the overseas communities to handle these civilian cases, but it died, was resurrected a couple of years ago, and died again.

He is the civilian commander in chief of the Armed Forces. I know you do not like it, but that is the way it is. Civilian control of the military is the way we have always done it--it USUALLY makes sense, because a normal president understands the power and responsibility. Chimp thinks the uniformed services are his personal toy tin soldiers. He dishonors us all.

[mirror wall]

33. RE:Because the UCMJ only applies to UNIFORMED SERVICE MEMBERS

Well, what about that one time he landed on that aircraft carrier in that cute little flightsuit? Surely that must count.

[MADem]

51. Heh, heh

The sweatsox he had stuffed in his Superman underwear were not military issue!!! Thus, he was OUT OF UNIFORM!!!

[newyawker99]

73. Hi mirror wall!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[bowens43]

11. Bush is a civilian.

[electron_blue]

31. huh? isn't he the head of the armed forces?

[DoYouEverWonder]

4. That had nothing to do with performing your duties

as Command in Chief during a State of Emergency.

There is a big difference. I think we might have a case here.

[Catch22Dem]

10. No, we don't have a case here.

I wanna see this fucker burn as much or worse than anyone here, but you can't get something out of nothing. The POTUS isn't bound by the UCMJ.

[jody]

13. The UCMJ applies to specific people as follows but not a president .

TITLE 10 > Subtitle A > PART II > CHAPTER 47 > SUBCHAPTER I > § 802

Art. 2. Persons subject to this chapter

Release date: 2004-03-18
(a) The following persons are subject to this chapter:
(1) Members of a regular component of the armed forces, including those awaiting discharge after expiration of their terms of enlistment; volunteers from the time of their muster or acceptance into the armed forces; inductees from the time of their actual induction into the armed forces; and other persons lawfully called or ordered into, or to duty in or for training in, the armed forces, from the dates when they are required by the terms of the call or order to obey it.
(2) Cadets, aviation cadets, and midshipmen.
(3) Members of a reserve component while on inactive-duty training, but in the case of members of the Army National Guard of the United States or the Air National Guard of the United States only when in Federal service.
(4) Retired members of a regular component of the armed forces who are entitled to pay.
(5) Retired members of a reserve component who are receiving hospitalization from an armed force.
(6) Members of the Fleet Reserve and Fleet Marine Corps Reserve.
(7) Persons in custody of the armed forces serving a sentence imposed by a court-martial.
(8) Members of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, Public Health Service, and other organizations, when assigned to and serving with the armed forces.
(9) Prisoners of war in custody of the armed forces.
(10) In time of war, persons serving with or accompanying an armed force in the field.
(11) Subject to any treaty or agreement to which the United States is or may be a party or to any accepted rule of international law, persons serving with, employed by, or accompanying the armed forces outside the United States and outside the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, Guam, and the Virgin Islands.
(12) Subject to any treaty or agreement to which the United States is or may be a party or to any accepted rule of international law, persons within an area leased by or otherwise reserved or acquired for the use of the United States which is under the control of the Secretary concerned and which is outside the United States and outside the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, Guam, and the Virgin Islands.
(b) The voluntary enlistment of any person who has the capacity to understand the significance of enlisting in the armed forces shall be valid for purposes of jurisdiction under subsection (a) and a change of status from civilian to member of the armed forces shall be effective upon the taking of the oath of enlistment.
(c) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a person serving with an armed force who—
(1) submitted voluntarily to military authority;
(2) met the mental competency and minimum age qualifications of sections 504 and 505 of this title at the time of voluntary submission to military authority;
(3) received military pay or allowances; and
(4) performed military duties;
is subject to this chapter until such person’s active service has been terminated in accordance with law or regulations promulgated by the Secretary concerned.
(d)
(1) A member of a reserve component who is not on active duty and who is made the subject of proceedings under section 815 (article 15) or section 830 (article 30) with respect to an offense against this chapter may be ordered to active duty involuntarily for the purpose of—
(A) investigation under section 832 of this title (article 32);
(B) trial by court-martial; or
(C) nonjudicial punishment under section 815 of this title (article 15).
(2) A member of a reserve component may not be ordered to active duty under paragraph (1) except with respect to an offense committed while the member was—
(A) on active duty; or
(B) on inactive-duty training, but in the case of members of the Army National Guard of the United States or the Air National Guard of the United States only when in Federal service.
(3) Authority to order a member to active duty under paragraph (1) shall be exercised under regulations prescribed by the President.
(4) A member may be ordered to active duty under paragraph (1) only by a person empowered to convene general courts-martial in a regular component of the armed forces.
(5) A member ordered to active duty under paragraph (1), unless the order to active duty was approved by the Secretary concerned, may not—
(A) be sentenced to confinement; or
(B) be required to serve a punishment consisting of any restriction on liberty during a period other than a period of inactive-duty training or active duty (other than active duty ordered under paragraph (1)).
(e) The provisions of this section are subject to section 876b (d)(2) of this title (article 76b(d)(2))

[elehhhhna]

15. Let's use it on Cheney, then! He's really in charge anyway.

[jody]

16. Cheney is not subject to the UCMJ. n/t

[DoYouEverWonder]

18. And Rummie too

He officially took control last Wednesday, it was reported in the M$M.

[jody]

23. Rumsfeld is not subject to the UCMJ, n/t

[DoYouEverWonder]

38. Then if he is a civilian

we need to file criminal charges in a US court.

One way or another, they are not above the law.

[jody]

39. OK but, he's not subject to the UCMJ. n/t

[DoYouEverWonder]

42. Fine then let's get a Louisana sheriff

to issue warrents for their arrests.

[jody]

47. See post # 44. n/t

[elehhhhna]

61. lol!

[berni_mccoy]

19. What About Item 10

"(10) In time of war, persons serving with or accompanying an armed force in the field. "

We are AT WAR and Bush has expanded the application of the UCMJ after Sept. 11...

[jody]

21. You can't be serious? n/t

[berni_mccoy]

25. Serious and desperately seeking any legal means

to get this guy out of office.

[jody]

29. I'm with you on removing him from office but the UCMJ won't work. n/t

[MADem]

43. A plastic turkey on Air Force One is not "the field"

That is an installation visit by the CinC.

The only field that monkey hangs out in is the one by the ranch, with all the brush that needs chopping down with his little chain saw.

[Catch22Dem]

68. Only Congress can declare war..

Until then, we are NOT at war, no matter how many times the simian president claims we are.

[satya]

71. What about 2(a)(3)? Does his TANG "service" apply somehow? nt

[berni_mccoy]

17. The President Is NOT a Civilian

In warfare, a head of state is considered a valid MILITARY target.

Also, the definition of civilian is as follows:
(via Wiki)
"A person following the pursuits of civil life, especially one who is not an active member of the military or police."

Here, police can be construed as LAW ENFORCEMENT, which is the sole PURPOSE of the EXECUTIVE BRANCH.

If the President is NOT a CIVILIAN, then what is he?

[Selatius]

24. Yes, but the US never declared war

You can't declare war on a hurricane. I assume the originator of the thread was talking about Katrina, not Iraq.

[berni_mccoy]

28. The UMCJ doesn't say qualify conditions`

It just says "during war"; specific situation may not be applicable if it qualifies him as subject.

[Selatius]

72. Yes, but it is very likely that is a reference to...

the legal definition of "war" in the US as per US Code. If that is true, then there is a fairly noticeable chance this argument might not be accepted in a court of law, since the US Congress never officially put the country in a war footing by declaring war.

[MADem]

26. He may be a target, but he is not a uniformed service member

Civilian control of the military is a cornerstone of our republic. It was set up that way to avoid coups and whatnot.

He IS a civilian, he is also an asshole. We need a Democratic Congress so we can impeach him and Big Dick, and install Pelosi as interim President until 08 rolls around!

[berni_mccoy]

32. Civilian Control was MEANT FOR CONGRESS, Not executive branch

The Constitution strictly prohibits any member of Congress from serving in military, it does not prohibit executive branch members. This is what Civilian Control of military means in terms of U.S. Constitution. (President can not act without congress, etc).

[MADem]

37. That is not true, there are a couple of congressmen in the reserves

They only have to kiss the seat goodbye if they are deployed, but they can still serve up to that point.

I spent three decades in the military, I do urge you to trust me on this--he is the CIVILIAN commander in chief.

[jody]

27. Please read the material at the link in #13 to understand why you're wrong

[electron_blue]

30. okay, now you're talking

this looks much clearer than the foggy impeachment process

[Llewlladdwr]

35. Cripes....

Sometimes the magical thinking and willful ignorance around this place is almost more than I can bear.

[MADem]

41. If wishes were horses, then beggars would ride

Old Irish saying!!!

Look at it as an opportunity to educate...all you can do is put it out there, people will believe what they wish, even in the face of harsh facts and simple reality. And some may be genuinely mistaken, there is a massive lack of knowledge throughout this country on the roles and missions of the military, because so few people serve in it and the tradition from WW2, Korea and Vietnam are really gone, what with the AVF, and a smaller sized force compared to days gone by.

Do not let it ruin your day, it is not worth it.

[Wcross]

40. Try again.

Who issued the order? It was Bush. He is not bound by an order he issued. I am suprised you didn't consider this.

[berni_mccoy]

46. It wasn't an order, but a regulation

he failed to obey. The regulation is the duty of the federal gov't to respond promptly in a state of emergency.

[Wcross]

49. He issued the order. He declared the emergency.

He can change that order at any time. Who determines that he was derilict in his duties within the chain of command? He is the commander in chief. He answers to civilian authority. Who would hold the court martial of the commander in chief?

[jody]

44. The Constitution says "The President, Vice President and

all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors."

You are wasting your time on the UCMJ.

[DoYouEverWonder]

50. What if Congress refuses

even in the face of such an overwhelming apparent failure to lead, dereliction of duty and possibly negligent homicide?

[jody]

54. Abraham Lincoln said "This country, with its institutions, belongs

to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember it or overthrow it."

Ulysses S. Grant said "The right of revolution is an inherent one. When people are oppressed by their government, it is a natural right they enjoy to relieve themselves of oppression, if they are strong enough, whether by withdrawal from it, or by overthrowing it and substituting a government more acceptable."

Thomas Paine said "These are the times that try men's souls."

Perhaps all three are right!

[Catch22Dem]

69. They've been doing that for 5 years now...

Still doesn't make the UCMJ any more applicable against the president than it did in 1999.

[MADem]

45. All military regulations were written by individuals SUBORDINATE to the

monkey. Service specific regs are signed by the CNO/Commandant USMC/Chiefs of Staff of the Army or Air Force, while regs applying to all members are signed by the SECDEF or one of his minions.

Even if the civilian aspect could be overcome, and the only way that would happen would be if you got him drunk, put him in a flight suit, and swore him in, he would not be held to the order of a SUBORDINATE. The Seaman Recruit does not tell the Captain what to do, for good reason, usually.

[berni_mccoy]

48. Ok, Ok, I Respectfully Concede this Argument

I've been convinced that the President does not qualify as Subject to UMCJ...

However, if there were someway to qualify him under his past military service under a technicality.... :evilgrin:

[MADem]

52. You have to collect a retirement check to fall into that hellish gray area

...and that sonofabitch didn't even earn enough drill points for an honorable discharge!

[FreedomAngel82]

53. Wow, this is big!

Send this to Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi! Now!

[jody]

56. Why? Do they need a laugh? n/t

[Catch22Dem]

70. Send what to them?

I'd like to be able to maintain our credibility here at DU. There's nothing "big" about the suggestion of using the UCMJ against someone to whom the UCMJ does not apply.

[texpatriot2004]

57. Thanks Bernie for the Court Martial info n/t

[bushisanidiot]

58. Nominated!! COURT MARTIAL HIS ASS!!

great find!!

[stepnw1f]

59. Excellent Find! Freak Out Time, Freepers! nt

[berni_mccoy]

62. I've already agreed to the arguments above that Bush is NOT SUBJECT

To UMCJ...

However, he still VIOLATED this article that all OTHER members of the military are subject to obey... You gotta wonder how this MAKES THEM FEEL knowing how the President failed to act to PROTECT the CITIZENS of the U.S., especially those soldiers with family affected by this.

[jody]

63. Now you're on solid ground. Bush says "Do as the UCMJ says, not as I do".

:thumbsup:

[lateo]

64. Bush is technically NOT a member of the military, ergo...

he is not bound by its rules.

US Army 1985-1991, Infantry

[berni_mccoy]

65. moot point... I already gave up on the argument but can't edit orig. post

[snot]

67. Self-deleted (redundant)