Why is an Israeli citizen the head of Homeland Security anyway?

[Freedomfried]

How could somebody from that is a citizen of a country involved in illegal, clandestine intelligence gathering in America hold such a high level cabinet post in the US government?

[RagAss]

1. What?....he's not a citizen????

[libertypirate]

206. So how does the whole AIPAC case fit in with this dude?>

That is the real question....

Anyone?

[libertypirate]

2. I didn't know that... Do you have a link? We need a source on this...

[DoYouEverWonder]

3. I wish I had known that before

why didn't this come out during his confirmation hearing?

The HEAD Of HOMELAND SECURITY is a dual-citizen of another country! Boy is that a security breech in and of itself or what.

[Botany]

4. He has joint citizenship .....

Ever wonder why bush does all of Sharon's heavy lifting?

And the Israeli agents in the pentagon?

[MADem]

73. If true, how VERY NEW JERSEY

McGreevey's Homeland Security guy was an Israeli as well...and his squeeze on the side, too....

[msgadget]

132. Do you have a link regarding this?

[MADem]

150. My God, it was THE news story last year!!!

McGreevey resigned, said he was a Gay American, and his lover, Golan Cipel, hightailed it back to Israel. Golan was also a good pal of Mayor Koch...FWIW....

Here, catch up! http://www.cpanj.com/capitalreportpages/mcgreeveywatch/august2002/MCGREEVEY'S%20RECLUSIVE%20ISRAELI%20AIDE%20STEPS%20DOWN.htm

Golan Cipel, the reticent and controversial aide to Gov. James E. McGreevey who stepped down under pressure as the state's homeland security adviser five months ago, resigned from state government yesterday without explanation.

The 33-year-old native of Israel and published poet will take a job in the private sector, said Paul Aronsohn, a spokesman for the Governor. Officials said Cipel has several job options.

http://www.bergen.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk0MDAmZmdiZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTY3NDQ0NjMmeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkxNA==

One year ago, Gov. James E. McGreevey stunned the nation when he announced he had carried on an extramarital affair with a man. McGreevey told the world he was "a gay American" and would resign in November. A year later, New Jerseyans know little more about the short-term governor than they did on Aug. 12, 2004.

McGreevey has never acknowledged who the other man was. It was reported to have been Golan Cipel, a young Israeli McGreevey put on the state payroll and later helped find several subsequent jobs.

Cipel was appointed to a high-level homeland security post in the early days of the McGreevey administration. As an Israeli, he could not receive security clearance for the position; his qualifications appeared dubious for a security job in the months after Sept. 11.

[msgadget]

155. I'm caught up on McGreevy, thank you,

but was asking about Chertoff. I hit reply under the wrong post - sorry. There was another spy at a higher level I thought of first and before I got into conspiracy theory mode wanted to confirm Chertoff's dual citizenship. I'm witholding judgement on it.

[Name removed]

181. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Nikki Stone 1]

5. Be very careful with this thread. Until there is proof, don't take the

bait.

[Freedomfried]

7. Michael Chertoff holds an Israeli passport

Give me a few minutes, I will find the link.

[Nikki Stone 1]

11. Link, please

?

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Nikki Stone 1]

16. How about a more mainstream source?

?

[Ms. Clio]

33. I heard it on one of the cable news networks

otherwise I would not know it.

[WiseButAngrySara]

27. What happened to the links? They were here just seconds ago....??????

[GreenArrow]

76. must have been from one of those verboten sources

.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

142. We're not allowed to use certain sources....

...IMHO, I've always thought that was a little odd for a site that claims to be a champion of free speech.

[Name removed]

172. Deleted message

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[[e-mail]]

8. its true

it has been posted before
he has dual citizen ship
no one questioned this from the get go
no dem or repug
they all working for the corps and ...
we r f'd

[HereSince1628]

17. It's true, but, so what? Before I get upset show me how that had

any negative impact on his ability to do his job.

Chertof made mistakes, no doubt. But I am unaware that those mistakes had anything to do with dual citizenship.

[Nikki Stone 1]

30. If it were true, then we are talking about a real national security risk

When you get to the highest security clearance levels, you are not allowed to hold dual citizenship. They even look at you askance if you have relatives in a foreign country that you keep in contact with.

Chertoff's case would be an amazing exception and a dangerous one.

[Jara sang]

55. So tell me, where do his loyalties lie?

The U.S. or Israel?

[Name removed]

192. Deleted message

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[RagAss]

6. Link?...this can't be...even MSM would be all over this.....

[burythehatchet]

44. even MSM would be all over this....."

heh...heh...that's funny

[txindy]

95. They wouldn't have the time

Spending 24/7 covering the Downing Street Minutes, you know. :eyes:

Yep, the thought of a responsible M$M is :rofl:

[TahitiNut]

9. Well, isn't he making Israel more secure??

:eyes:

[jody]

10. Does your country, the Philippines, permit dual citizenship? n/t

[Freedomfried]

13. My country is the US, I'm a disabled veteran living here on a

permanent residency visa.

[jody]

18. My question was does the Philippines allow dual citizenship? n/t

[The Stranger]

26. My question is: are you looking at personal profiles and asking questions

about posters in a public forum to silence their questions?

[jody]

41. No, I know that the Philippines does allow dual citizenship. The author

of the OP focused on one country but ignored perhaps fifty or more other countries that permit dual citizenship. The author of the OP is apparently a citizen of the Philippines and by his own admission living in the U.S. on a permanent visa. He says he is a disabled veteran and undoubtedly served the U.S. with honor and distinction.

See Dual Citizenship "WHEREAS, R.A. No. 9225 declares that the natural-born citizens of the Philippines who become citizens of another country shall be deemed not to have lost their Philippine citizenship under conditions provided therein;"

[The Stranger]

56. But a citizen of the Phillipines is not in charge of U.S.Homeland Security

. . . not to bother you with the facts.

[jody]

60. Then what law has he broken? I don't like the guy but dual citizenship

is not an issue IMO.

[Freedomfried]

37. There was a big purge here of US passport holders

in government office.

[Freedomfried]

89. Deleted, double post

[Freedomfried]

90. The issue us not me, why do you ask me these questions?

I am an expatriate American, I am 100% American.

I am not the head of another country's security program.

[jody]

118. Your issue is dual citizenship and your country, apparently

the Philippines, allows them. My point is that you single out Israel but Israel is just one of perhaps 50 or more countries that recognize dual citizenships.

You were trying to condemn a person not for what he did but because of what one country in which he is a citizen may or may not have done.

Do you believe that is fair?

[Freedomfried]

125. My question is not about duel citizenship, its about security clearances

[jody]

133. I don't agree, because you question a security clearance based on

a person's dual citizenship. If that's not your point, then you've misled me and many others who replied to your OP.

Please clarify why do you believe he should not have a security clearance?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

156. I seem to recall an individual by the name of Pollard who was convicted...

...of spying for Israel, and has been in prison since his conviction.

Here's a research topic for you...take a look at some of the individuals that are U. S. citizens and members of PNAC, and then find out what other organizations they belong to, domestic and foreign.

Then check out the number of Israelis that were were rounded up and deported after 911. Also do a search on a van that contained a number of Israelis who were caught filming the burning WTC on 911 and cheering...at least one of those individuals was an agent for Mossad.

Israel, IMHO, has made a very bad habit of spying on its primary benefactor, and continues to do so to this very day.

[jody]

159. OK but what does that have to do with the specific exchange between

Freedomfried and me?

As I now understand Freedomfried's point, he objects to a security clearance for Michael Chertoff who Freedomfried says is an "Israeli citizen" in addition to being a U.S. citizen but Freedomfried asserts he's not bothered by the dual citizenship.

Does that confuse you? :shrug:

[sakabatou]

12. He has dual citizenship

He was born in the U.S.

[Freedomfried]

15. Do you not swear allegiance to the country of issue

when you receive a passport from another country?

How did he qualify for the job just considering the security clearance requirments?

[txindy]

97. No, no allegiance to any country is professed in order to get a passport

Not if you're legally entitled to one. Why would there be? It's a citizenship law, not a certificate of an oath of loyalty.

[Fight_n_back]

19. CAannot be true

the US does not allow dual citizenship

[jody]

20. Yes it does. n/t

[Kenroy]

22. sure it does

http://www.post-gazette.com/nation/20020515dual0515p4.asp

[H2O Man]

23. Sure it does.

It requires those becoming US citizens to be just US citizens. But there is no stopping US citizens from obtaining dual citizenship. There are many US citizens with dual citizenship in Ireland. It's legal.

[txindy]

99. Oh, it certainly does.

You've got to be kidding. To make it even more interesting, you cannot denounce your US citizenship either. You will always be a citizen, no matter where you live, no matter how long you've lived there, no matter what you've done. You are a citizen unless the gov't. decides to change your status. YOU, as an individual, do not get that choice.

[Misunderestimator]

198. Yes it does... I know a number of people who have dual citizenship...

[Nikki Stone 1]

39. Link, please?

A respectable sourcE?

[sakabatou]

47. Unfortunately, I don't have one.

[Name removed]

183. Deleted message

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[libertypirate]

202. Why don't you take your crap some where else?

The question is valid and you know it... So piss off!

[Name removed]

209. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[guruoo]

184. Michael Chertoff - wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Chertoff
**Check out the google cached version:
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:FMm-FHv2rN0J:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Chertoff+chertoff+israeli&hl=en

[Behind the Aegis]

186. Proves NOTHING!

Even the cache says BELEIVED and has no PROOF to back it up!

[Name removed]

191. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

182. Deleted message

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[guruoo]

185. Being Jewish isn't the issue

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:FMm-FHv2rN0J:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Chertoff+chertoff+israeli&hl=en

[Name removed]

188. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Behind the Aegis]

189. From your link...

"He is believed to be an Israeli citizen."

I believe Zeus is the Supreme Being...don't make it true!

[WiseButAngrySara]

21. Sorry, folks...if this is true, it is disgusting! Please verify. n/t

[jody]

24. Whether it is true or not is not important. Many U.S. citizens both

naturalized and born to parents who were naturalized are allowed to vote in foreign elections as well as in the U.S.

For example, I believe that certain U.S. citizens who were formerly from Iraq are allowed to vote in Iraqi elections. If I'm wrong, then some DU member will quickly correct my error.

[Freedomfried]

31. I think its very important

To hold such a high level important job in the US government one would sensibly think you would have to denounce allegiance to any other country.

If they want the job, the person should have to give up the other passport.

[WiseButAngrySara]

40. I agree....too sensitive a position, especially in wartime. n/t

[jody]

46. Giving up a passport and renouncing another citizenship are two

different things.

Current U.S. policy is:
Dual Nationality
QUOTE
A U.S. citizen may acquire foreign citizenship by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. citizen may not lose the citizenship of the country of birth.U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one citizenship or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship. However, a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship.
UNQUOTE

[Freedomfried]

106. Exactly! for that job you have to renounce your citizenship

in the other country, whatever country that is, I would think there would be no way in the world you could make exemptions on this.

If you wanted to stay in the US as a duel national, fine, but don't expect a job in the US government that requires a security clearance till other loyalties are officially renounced and other passports surrendered for good.

[stickdog]

204. Considering the questions about JFK's allegiances to the Pope,

and the fact that you can't be President unless you were born an American, I'd say having a citizen of another country in charge of the HOMELAND Security of the entire United States ought to at least be a open topic for discussion.

[mzteris]

25. So does

Wolfowitz and Zakheim. Ari Fleischer *may* have, too.

Dov Zakheim was/is? Under Secretary of Defense, Comptroller, and Chief Financial Officer (CFO) for the Department of Defense

[bribri16]

35. So why is this news to anyone. Who really didn't know that the neocons

and PNACers are running and ruining our country. i bet this won't make the mainstream news. Do we allow Russians who were also spying on us, to hold dual citizenship? So you already know how the polls are going turn out, how the cover up will be accomplished, why the MSM will never change.

[elehhhhna]

28. WHOA! ADD NEGROPONTE & WOLFOWITZ to the list!!!! OMG!

grabbing links now. Please google!

[Nikki Stone 1]

34. Please be careful with your sources. David Duke is also one of the sources

That's why I am asking for a mainstream source

[The Stranger]

38. Didn't see a source yet.

That came from your post.

[Nikki Stone 1]

43. I am still waiting for sources on this. No one seems to have any

I found some wacko sites--like this one:

http://www.catholicintl.com/catholicissues/politics2-print.htm

which claims:

"Today there is little difference between Stimson’s policies and the “pre-emptive” war policy of Kristol, Perle, Wolfowitz and the Bush Skull and Bones cartel. It is probably no coincidence that Wolfowitz, appointed as head of the World Bank by George Bush; Michael Chertoff, appointed as secretary of Homeland Security by George Bush, along with Richard Perle and Charles Krauthammer who are very active in the Bush administration, all have dual citizenship, with Israel as their second country of allegiance. No one seems to have paid attention to the U.S. Law, section 1448, that prohibits dual citizenship, especially when this duplicity puts them in very powerful governmental positions. In March 2005 the American Free Press reported that Michael Chertoff’s mother, Livia Eisen, was an Israeli national involved with the Mossad. Consequently, unless Chertoff renounces his Israeli citizenship then Israeli law considers him one of its own. To know the extent of Chertoff’s present power one only needs to read the Patriot Act, one of the most abusive stretches of government power against the citizenry ever devised. You can depend upon it that Chertoff will use it for Israel’s interests."


So according to this wacko source EVERYBODY in power is an Israeli citizen!

Please, guys, be careful.

[elehhhhna]

49. Evidently if ones Mother is a Jew, one automatically has dual cit.

[jody]

51. So what? This thread can get hot if you want to list all women/men born

of a Jewish mother.

[Nikki Stone 1]

58. Exactly. Until someone has a credible source of a citizenship issue,then

ignore this nonsense

[elehhhhna]

96. exactly. we're talking millions of people.

[MADem]

74. I seem to remember it was GRANDPARENT

I recall a kid whose grampa was Israeli by way of another country, the kid was a US citizen, born here, no other passport, and he killed and butchered a kid in MD a few years back. He fled to Israel, was granted citizenship based on grampa, and they tried him there because the US had the death penalty.

He was convicted, if I recall...

[seemunkee]

78. His father held an israeli passport

Unfortunately I know(knew) that family. They all live there now.

[Nikki Stone 1]

84. But if citizenship is automatic, then there is no need for dad's passport

ANy Jewish criminal could flee to Israel and claim citizenship.

[seemunkee]

87. It's more complicated than that. And its not just being Jewish

His Father actually never held an Israeli passport but was eligible for one. He sent Samuel over to Israel and then claimed dual citizenship and by rights Samuel could get it. It went all the way to the Israeli equivalent of the Supreme court

[Ms. Clio]

52. Yes, I should just disregard the evidence of my own ears

It was on the tee-vee last week. Whoever reported it just mentioned it in passing.

[Nikki Stone 1]

59. Next time, get the news source, the channel, etc. We can at least check

Hearsay doesn't help.

[Ms. Clio]

64. It happened last week, it didn't strike me as important enough to TIVO

[Nikki Stone 1]

82. Really? Hmmm.

Oh well.

[Ms. Clio]

88. Yeah, oh well--I'm reminded of the thread about when the levees broke

You were wrong then too.

[Name removed]

194. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ms. Clio]

197. What is racist about it? Downthread someone says she has dual citizenship

You are the one freaking out about it, not me.

[Name removed]

200. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ms. Clio]

208. Only baiters are trying to make it into a big fucking deal if he is/isn't

[The Stranger]

57. There is a link to rense.com, below.

[Name removed]

176. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Just Me]

29. Fascinating, considering the spy plot indictments recently.

Can't say dual citizenship in and of itself causes me concern as much as the circumstances tending to show that one nation's interests have taken front burner (in some circles within the BushCO/neoCON regime) to our own people's interests.

[WiseButAngrySara]

50. Very well put. I have many foreign friends (all in university positions

as it turns out) and I think all of them (with maybe the exception of Canada?...I know she didn't want to renounce her Canadian citizenship to become a US citizen) have dual citizenship (Israel, Taiwan, India, UK). Their positions are not a conflict of security interests.

[Just Me]

71. Well, imagine if the "circle" and spy plot involved Nigerians or,...

,...Indians or Mexicans or Iranians. What I am saying is that, no nation's interests are supposed to take front seat to the economic and security interests of our own people.

Chertoff's dual citizenship is quite concerning to me because of the clear sacrifice of our own nation's health and security by those associated with the same circle of foreign nationalistic "interests" who have been indicted for everything short of espionage.

[WiseButAngrySara]

140. Once again, very well put. I agree. I wish the MSM would report on this!

n/t

[Name removed]

195. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FreedomAngel82]

32. Psst

read PNAC.

[Liberal Dose]

36. There's an explanation on rense

http://www.rense.com/general63/GCEHER.HTM

[Monkey see Monkey Do]

63. Christopher Bollyn is a friggin' neo-nazi

who writes for American Free Press. He had his political awakening after reading Michael Collins Piper's "Final Judgement" which claims that Mossad killed Kennedy.

Anyway, from scanning the article Bollyn is basically getting his panties in a twist about a Jew born in Poland giving birth to a guy in America.

[Liberal Dose]

69. Should've edited to say, "rense has an explanation of the dual citizenship

law" Chertoff is still a citizen of Assholevia no matter where he lives.

[burythehatchet]

42. wow. your thread didn't get deleted yet?

mine was deleted with no explanation whatsoever. I can only guess because I said the same thing you did.

Anyway, Wikipedia has been eedited in the last two days to include this gem: "He is believed to be an Israeli citizen by anti-semites." :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Hardrada]

169. Those guys work fast!!

[Name removed]

190. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Must_B_Free]

45. What was the story on Kissinger?

was he a US citizen? He has such a heavy accent....

"Henry Alfred Kissinger (born May 27, 1923 as Heinz Alfred Kissinger) is a German-born American diplomat and statesman. He served as National Security Advisor and later Secretary of State in the Nixon administration, continuing in the latter position after Gerald Ford became President in the aftermath of the Watergate scandal.
...

Kissinger was born in Fürth in Franconia (Bavaria) as Heinz Alfred Kissinger into a Jewish family. In 1938, fleeing Adolf Hitler's persecution, his family moved to New York, New York. Kissinger was naturalized a U.S. citizen on June 19, 1943.
"

Why was he allowed to have so high a role in policy?

[Kenroy]

48. Same reason Madeline Albright

was allowed to hold the same position - a citizen is a citizen, regardless of where they were born.

We don't differentiate between naturalized citizens and citizens-from-birth.

[jody]

53. Yes we do in special cases such as becoming President. On the other

hand, we recruit men/women from other nations to join our military and fight/die for a country in which they are not yet citizens.
:shrug:

[Nikki Stone 1]

65. Except in the Presidency (and VEEP). That is what keeps Ahnold out-------

Thank God!

[WiseButAngrySara]

54. I just saw Chertoff again on K.Olbermann...he is utterly souless. Kick

and nominate this post to get this info to the media.

[SharonRB]

61. Maybe you're not aware of it, but any Jew who steps foot on

Israeli soil is considered an automatic citizen. There are thousands of American citizens who can also be considered Israeli citizens.

And I would be very careful about your post -- I'm surprised it hasn't broken out into a total flame war yet.

[jody]

62. Aren't there exceptions such as marrying a Christian or Muslim? n/t

[Nikki Stone 1]

66. Source, please?

Haven't gotten a good one yet.

[SharonRB]

68. I'm Jewish and have always known that.

[Monkey see Monkey Do]

70. here

Acquisition of Nationality according to the Law of Return

On the establishment of the State, its founders proclaimed "...the renewal of the Jewish State in the Land of Israel, which would open wide the gates of the homeland to every Jew...." In pursuance of this tenet, the State of Israel has absorbed survivors of the Holocaust, refugees from the countries in which they had resided, as well as many thousands of Jews who came to settle in Israel of their own volition.
The Law of Return (1950) grants every Jew, wherever he or she may be, the right to come to Israel as an oleh (a Jew immigrating to Israel) and become an Israeli citizen.

For the purposes of this Law, "Jew" means a person who was born of a Jewish mother or has converted to Judaism and is not a member of another religion.

Israeli citizenship becomes effective on the day of arrival in the country or of receipt of an oleh's certificate, whichever is later. A person may declare, within three months, that he/she does not wish to become a citizen.

Since 1970 the right to immigrate under this Law has been extended to include the child and the grandchild of a Jew, the spouse of a Jew, the spouse of a child of a Jew and the spouse of a grandchild of a Jew. The purpose of this amendment is to ensure the unity of families where intermarriage had occurred; it does not apply to persons who had been a Jews and had voluntarily changed their religion.

An oleh's certificate may be denied to persons who:

engage in activity directed against the Jewish people;
may endanger public health or the security of the state;<
have a criminal past, likely to endanger public welfare.

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/2000_2009/2001/8/Acquisition%20of%20Israeli%20Nationality

[SharonRB]

72. Here's a source

http://www.richw.org/dualcit/faq.html#israel

I've heard that the US has a special agreement with Israel permitting people to be dual US/Israeli citizens. Is this true?
No. It just happens that Israeli citizenship law does not require renunciation of one's old citizenship in order to become a citizen of Israel.

In this regard, Israel is really treated no differently than Canada, the UK, France, or other countries which permit people to become citizens without giving up their old status.

As best I have been able to determine, the US does not have any sort of treaty facilitating dual citizenship with any other country. Dual citizenship arises, not out of explicit bilateral agreements between nations, but because each country makes its own laws respecting who is or is not its citizen, often without regard for whether a given person is considered a citizen by more than one country at once.

It is interesting to note that Israel's "Law of Return" (under which any Jew may immigrate to and become a citizen of Israel) confers Israeli citizenship automatically, without the immigrant having to apply for it, attend any ceremony, or swear any oath of allegiance. The Israeli law may originally have been written this way to encourage American Jews to move to Israel; they could, in theory, argue that they had not explicitly requested Israeli citizenship and were thus still entitled to keep their US citizenship. (Note that Mr. Afroyim, subject of Afroyim v. Rusk, was alleged to have lost his US citizenship, not because he had become an Israeli citizen, but because he had voted in an Israeli election.)

During the late 19th and early 20th centuries, the US ratified a series of citizenship treaties (the "Bancroft treaties", named after American diplomat George Bancroft). The intent of these treaties was to prevent dual citizenship by providing for automatic loss of citizenship by foreigners who obtained US citizenship, or by Americans who obtained foreign citizenship. As a result of the various Supreme Court decisions on dual citizenship, however, the Bancroft treaties became legally unenforceable, and all of them have by now been formally abrogated by the US. One of these treaties (the one with Sweden) is mentioned in the Supreme Court's decision in Perkins v. Elg.

[Nikki Stone 1]

80. How does "automatic" citizenship work? It seems from the article that

you just have to visit and you can be considered a citizen? Wouldn't that make every Jewish tourist to Israel a citizen?

[TimeChaser]

103. Basically, yes n/t

[onenote]

139. basically no

Can't anyone read? Under the law of return you don't become a citizen just by being a tourist. You have to have expressed a desire to settle in Israel."

onenote

[Must_B_Free]

112. law of return

here's the law of return;
http://www.lectlaw.com/files/int16.htm

more details
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/2000_2009/2001/8/Acquisition%20of%20Israeli%20Nationality

[Obamarama]

114. No, not to the Orthodox wing-nuts.

You can be Reform and make Aliyah, but you're certainly not welcome to call your self Israeli. I made Aliyah for my Bar Mitzvah and I came home simply KzooDem, Reform Jew who visited Israel.

[nodehopper]

149. it's not quite like that

that was true in a both symbolic and literal way back in the day. Now there are restrictions. You have to be Jewish on your mother's side, etc.

[rockymountaindem]

173. Nevermind

I was wrong about that.

[geek tragedy]

211. No, they're automatically ELIGIBLE to be citizens, but they're not

considered Israeli nationals without affirmative intent on their part.

Israel couldn't try Chertoff for treason.

[tabasco]

67. Why did the Bush administration show Secret/Noforn documents

...regarding the Iraq invasion to Prince Bandar, a non-citizen?

Because the corporate cabal is a bunch of traitors who don't give a damn about the American People!

[Parrothead Terp]

75. So was Albright and many others...

in the Clinton administration. Any person who is Jewish and who goes to Israel is a citizen. I also am one.

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[goodhue]

79. He has dual citizenship

Israel is one of the few countries for which the US recognizes dual citizenship.

[jody]

81. Is Alberto Gonzales a citizen of Mexico?

Alberto Gonzales is the son of Pablo and Maria Gonzales, children of immigrants from Mexico.

As of March 20, 1998, Mexican law recognizes dual nationality for Mexicans by birth, meaning those born in Mexico or born abroad to Mexican parents.

Does that mean Pablo and Maria Gonzales were Mexican Citizens and therefore Gonzales is also a Mexican citizen?

Would that be an issue if Gonzales is appointed to SCOTUS?

[Nikki Stone 1]

85. Interesting question

It seems that lots of citizenship laws shifted in 1967, the same year that immigration laws shifted drastically.

[Mich Otter]

83. An Israeli connection?

Check out these bits of information and see what you think might be going on; (You'll have to Google most of them for yourself)
Gerald Bull, Super Gun,
April Glaspie, transcript of conversation with Saddam Hussein,
The Tampa-St. Petersburg newspaper article on "Tanks in the Desert",
Letter to President Clinton on Iraq,
http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm

[pretzel4gore]

86. has anyone ever heard of this guy?

http://www.defenselink.mil/bios/zakheim_bio.html

his jewishness (he's a rabbi) has nothing to do with it. what's amazing is that the radar (even alternative press) seem to allow such amazing facts to hang around w/out even a whisper....
http://judicial-inc.biz/Dov_zakheim.htm

[Monkey see Monkey Do]

93. judicial-inc is virilently anti-semitic nt

[Nikki Stone 1]

100. Those are the kinds of sources tht tend to have this dual-citizenship info

Anti semetic and nutbaggy

[Name removed]

177. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

91. What does your jew hating have to do with his incompetence?

[Brightmore]

94. They accused JFK of having dual loyalty

Now they accuse Jews of having dual loyalty. It's quite disgusting, IMO.

[txindy]

107. JFK didn't hold a Vatican passport and that was prejudice against religion

We're talking about National Security. I don't know if Chertoff really has an Israeli passport, but citizenship of another country while being head of HS in THIS country is a big deal, IMO. Particularly when that other country is located in the most volatile region on the planet - a region we've mucked up beyond all belief, already.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

110. Every jewish person is granted citizenship to Israel..it means nothing

I've not seen any proof on this thread about anything...just Jew hating paranoid bullshit.

[Joe the Revelator]

116. Exactly...its a red herring and nothing more...

It disgusts me that we preach tolerance in all things, and it seems that half the people who post on this board have serious issues with Jewish people.

[txindy]

123. It may be paranoia, but don't accuse me of anything else

You haven't a clue about me. I'm talking about National Security. You're talking about hatred. Your own, obviously.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

193. I responded to the OP but your posts tow the line of paranoia as well

When Madeliene Albtight was Secretary of State did this alarm you?

[Name removed]

196. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Brightmore]

115. And this isn't prejudice against religion?

[txindy]

119. Don't be ridiculous. If he had Italian citizenship it would be the same

He's the head of Homeland Security in the United States. If you don't see a National Security program with that, there's nothing anyone can say to convince you.

[Brightmore]

122. Yea right

I highly doubt that.

[Name removed]

127. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Brightmore]

128. Calm down, skippy

Don't worry. The Jews won't hurt you.

:eyes:

Run along, now.

[txindy]

130. I could tell you how ironic your statement is, but you couldn't grasp it

It's obviously beyond you.

[Brightmore]

137. You don't see the anti-Semitism in these claims of dual loyalty?

Hitler was quite fond of using that one. Same goes for David Duke and his neo-Nazi cronies.

And, just because I can see it, doesn't mean I am a Bush supporter which you implied. Maybe you just can't grasp it. It's obviously beyond you.

[txindy]

141. Thanks for parroting my words. Can't come up with any, hmm?

It's a NATIONAL SECURITY postion. It doesn't matter WHAT country the second citizenship is in. He could be an atheist from China and it would STILL be the same issue, you putz!

As I said, run along. When you graduate from junior high, ask your HS teachers what NS means. They'll help you. I'm done. I don't babysit.

[Name removed]

199. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Nikki Stone 1]

102. Seems that every disaster brings out the anti-semitism in some people

.....

[tx_dem41]

164. NSMA....we don't often agree on things, but I applaud your posts..

on this thread. Thank you!!!

[Brightmore]

92. Even if he was...

what difference would it make? Should we ban dual citizens from holding public office?

Plus, besides neo-Nazi websites who accuse all Jews of having dual loyalty, there is no basis to your claims.

[elehhhhna]

98. One can renounce a citizenship.

[Brightmore]

101. One shouldn't have to

[txindy]

104. Not to this country, you can't

The US can take away your citizenship, but you can't change your own in the eyes of the US gov't.

[elehhhhna]

108. I believe you still can renounce US citizenship, but can be

"denied" if it is to get a Caymanian passport & stop paying tax here on your income & asssets. Dart & others did that, and the Clinton Admin. tightened up the rules.

edit to add:


Electing to Leave
A reader’s guide to expatriating on November 3
Posted on Wednesday, November 3, 2004. Originally from Harper's Magazine, October 2004. By Bryant Urstadt.
SourcesSo the wrong candidate has won, and you want to leave the country. Let us consider your options.

Renouncing your citizenship

Given how much the United States as a nation professes to value freedom, your freedom to opt out of the nation itself is surprisingly limited. The State Department does not record the annual number of Americans renouncing their citizenship—“renunciants,” as they are officially termed—but the Internal Revenue Service publishes their names on a quarterly basis in the Federal Register. The IRS’s interest in the subject is, of course, purely financial; since 1996, the agency has tracked ex-Americans in the hopes of recouping tax revenue, which in some cases may be owed for up to ten years after a person leaves the country. In any event, the number of renunciants is small. In 2002, for example, the Register recorded only 403 departures, of which many (if not most) were merely longtime resident aliens returning home.

The most serious barrier to renouncing your citizenship is that the State Department, which oversees expatriation, is reluctant to allow citizens to go “stateless.” Before allowing expatriation, the department will want you to have obtained citizenship or legal asylum in another country—usually a complicated and expensive process, if it can be done at all. Would-be renunciants must also prove that they do not intend to live in the United States afterward. Furthermore, you cannot renounce inside U.S. borders; the declaration must be made at a consul’s office abroad.
http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:Bz3DOzVgyKUJ:www.harpers.org/ElectingToLeave.html+renounce+U.S.+citizenship&hl=en

[txindy]

117. Not really

For instance, those who have recently emigrated to, say, Canada, cannot even renounce their US citizenship. They're still citizens, no matter what. There's no way to leave it behind. Even marching into a US Embassy and tearing up your passport means nothing. So, for all of those freepers saying to do just that, it's impossible. You can become a permanent resident or citizen of another country, so do not need to pay taxes to the US, but, in the end, you are still an American citizen. You can still come back and live here, even decades later. Your kids are still Americans even if born in other countries. And the US can still extradite you if they want to make trouble for you for some reason. They retain all their rights. The expatriots,...maybe.

Weird, hmmm?

[onenote]

129. do you just make this stuff up? because you're absolutely wrong

Of course you can renounce your citizenship. There are specific requirements and procedures, but its absolutely possible. And if you do renounce it, its irrevocable absent a special administrative appeal and finding. So basically everything in your post is bullshit. Which suggests a lot about other posts in this thread, doesn't it.

Oh yeah, here's a link (not sure you know what one is) http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html

onenote

[txindy]

134. Then go right ahead and try it

:eyes:

What a divisive moran.

[onenote]

135. huh?

onenote

[jody]

111. Yes but not under intimidation. SCOTUS said in AFROYIM v. RUSK:

AFROYIM v. RUSK, 387 U.S. 253 (1967)
QUOTE[br />Petitioner, of Polish birth, became a naturalized American citizen in 1926. He went to Israel in 1950 and in 1951 voted in an Israeli legislative election. The State Department subsequently refused to renew his passport, maintaining that petitioner had lost his citizenship by virtue of 401 (e) of the Nationality Act of 1940 which provides that a United States citizen shall "lose" his citizenship if he votes in a foreign political election. Petitioner then brought this declaratory judgment action alleging the unconstitutionality of 401 (e). On the basis of Perez v. Brownell, 356 U.S. 44 , the District Court and Court of Appeals held that Congress under its implied power to regulate foreign affairs can strip an American citizen of his citizenship. Held: Congress has no power under the Constitution to divest a person of his United States citizenship absent his voluntary renunciation thereof. Perez v. Brownell, supra, overruled. Pp. 256-268.

(a) Congress has no express power under the Constitution to strip a person of citizenship, and no such power can be sustained as an implied attribute of sovereignty, as was recognized by Congress before the passage of the Fourteenth Amendment; and a mature and well-considered dictum in Osborn v. Bank of the United States, 9 Wheat. 738, 827, is to the same effect. Pp. 257-261.
(b) The Fourteenth Amendment's provision that "All persons born or naturalized in the United States . . . are citizens of the United States . . ." completely controls the status of citizenship and prevents the cancellation of petitioner's citizenship. Pp. 262-268.

361 F.2d 102, reversed.
UNQUOTE

[Nikki Stone 1]

105. There is a conflict of interest, which is why sensitive positions don't

allow dual citizenship. Even some employees of the Federal government and government contracters are not allowed to have dual citizenship if they have security clearances at a certain level.

[Brightmore]

109. What about Albright & Kissinger?

Both Sec. of State.

[onenote]

121. did you bother to check the facts before you posted?

Yes "dual citizenship" can be an issue for security clearances. But there is not a hard and fast prohibition and, based on the facts as they've been stated here, Chertoff's dual citizenship would not pose a security clearance issue:

6. The evaluation element presented by dual citizenship is that it could raise an issue of possible divided loyalty to the United States. Title 32 C.F.R. 174.5, Adjudicative Guideline C, Foreign Preference, provides:

(a) The concern. When an individual acts in such a way as to indicate a preference for a foreign country over the United States, then he or she may be prone to provide information or make decisions that are harmful to the interests of the United States.

(b) Conditions that could raise a security concern and may be disqualifying include: (1) the exercise of dual citizenship; (2) possession and/or use of a foreign passport; (3) military service or a willingness to bear arms for a foreign country; (4) accepting educational, medical or other benefits, such as retirement and social welfare, from a foreign country; (5) residence in a foreign country to meet citizenship requirements; (6) using foreign citizenship to protect financial or business interests in another country; (7) seeking or holding political office in the foreign country; (8) voting in foreign elections; (9) performing or attempting to perform duties, or otherwise acting, so as to serve the interests of another government in preference to the interests of the United States.

c) Conditions that could mitigate security concerns include: (1) dual citizenship is based solely on parents' citizenship or birth in a foreign country; (2) indicators of possible foreign preference (e.g., foreign military service) occurred before obtaining United States citizenship; (3) activity is sanctioned by the United States; (4) individual has expressed a willingness to renounce dual citizenship.

7. To illustrate the DS evaluation process regarding dual citizenship, some past examples that have arisen recently are provided below. DS' goal is to maintain consistency in its determinations. There may appear to be many similarities between cases; however individual circumstances vary greatly and may not be known to the hiring entity. While not all inclusive, the following examples give an indication of how such factors are evaluated and determinations made:

Example A. A subject derived foreign citizenship from his or her parents. In this case, DS would examine whether or not the subject has exercised the foreign citizenship: by accepting educational, medical or social welfare benefits for himself/herself or family; possessing and using the foreign passport; serving in the foreign military; working for the foreign government; etc. In the absence of the subject's exercising foreign citizenship, and if subject's current and past actions consistently demonstrated preference for and allegiance to the United States, then dual citizenship would not preclude a security clearance.

SOURCE: http://www.careers.state.gov/specialist/join/dualcitizen.html

onenote

[Name removed]

207. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[onenote]

113. this could be the stupidest thread I've ever seen on DU

Chertoff is a US citizen because he was born here (under US law anyone born here is automatically a citizen whether or not their parents are citizens). He is an Israeli citizen because when he was born here, his mother was an Israeli citzen (not yet naturalized).
He didn't apply for or seek out Israeli citizenship...it just comes automatically, just like US citizenship. If he had been born in Ireland and both of his parents were US citizens? Guess what: he'd be a citizen of the US and Ireland. There are multiple ways of being deemed a citizen of a country, and most of them don't require the person to do anything...it just comes automatically based on your parents citizenship and/or where you are born. I suspect that if you started checking through any number of administrations, including Democratic administrations, you'd find loads of "dual" citizens. Big fuckin' deal. Show me that someone applied to become a citizen of another country that they weren't "automatically" a citizen of, and then maybe some questions would be warranted. But this thread is simply offensive. What next...DUers talking about blood libels?

What a load of crap.

onenote

[Ravenseye]

120. Ditto

What 'onenote' said.

[txindy]

124. I'm talking about IF he has an Israeli passport which no one has confirmed

Try reading before judging. Talk about a load of crap.

[onenote]

131. try providing support for the claim he has an israeli passport

before posting. You might as well have claimed that Al Gore has an Albanian passport.

onenote

[txindy]

136. Try reading and comprehending the title of the post you're responding to

:eyes: IF. Do you understand words of two letters? You're just interesting in dividing the board and flaming rather than discussing the possible security issues of anyone heading HS having a passport to ANY country other than the US. I don't give a flip if it's Israel. I'd tell you why, but the irony would probably go right over your head. Think of the obvious. Could it be because I, too, might have a claim to such citizenship of a certain country?

Or did that never cross your mind? You being so righteous and all.

[onenote]

144. Damn straight, skippy

I'm righteous about threads that ask "why is an Israeli citizen the head of Homeland Security anyway?" when there is zero evidence that Chertoff's Israeli citizenship is anything more than an accident of birth and even you admit you have no evidence to the contrary.

And I'm righteous about posts that ask "How could somebody that is a citizen of a country involved in illegal, clandestine intelligence gathering in America hold such a high level cabinet post in the US government?" and who then suggests that he wasn't picking on Israel in particular, just anyone who had a passport from any other country (but who still can't produce evidence that Chertoff is such a person).

And I'm righteous about posters who try to divide this board along religious lines. And I suspect my righteousness on that is shared by a lot of others.

onenote

[txindy]

148. Fine, but those weren't my posts

So you might want to adjust your righteous tone when addressing others who merely want to know IF this claim can be proven, otherwise you come off as flaming, divisive, and SELF-righteous. Particularly to those of us who are on the same religious side.

Skippy is cute, though. Do you and Brightmore hang out often and use each other's nicknames? :eyes:

I'm interested in NATIONAL SECURITY. I don't care what your interest is. I suspect we may never find out the answer to the question of Chertoff's citizenship due to the flaming. Which, no doubt, was the intent of a few people. They've been all over these boards, lately. All over.

[onenote]

161. Sorry for suggesting you were the source of the OP

But it was the inflammatory tone of that post that set me off. And, while I owe you an apology on my last post, you ought to be willing to admit you were wrong when you stated that its not possible to renounce US citizenship, rather than just shooting back a nonsequitur response.

Time to douse the flames and give this one a rest.

onenote

[txindy]

165. Agreed. I should have verified my info. on the citizenship issue

I took the word of a friend who recently emigrated to Canada and bellyached about the resulting dual citizenship paperwork dilemma and what HE stated was US policy. I never verified it, but repeated it here because I thought he would know seeing as how he's living it. My bad. I thought it was true, I wasn't trying to make it up.

Pax, then. I really am only interested in the claim of citizenship because this is a very odd cog (DHS and, by extension, the abysmal FEMA) in Junior's admin. and, it would seem, the thread was all for nothing. No proof of the original claim. Well, we exercised our fire extinguishers, anyway. ;)

We do need to keep our eyes on Junior and his thugs, though, including Chertoff.

[onenote]

166. right...after all, Chimpy is a US Citizen

and as best I can tell, he has no loyalty to this country at all...

onenote

[lostnfound]

143. Well thanks for the info, but you don't have to be so harsh about it.

I personally was curious about this very subject.
In light of the treasonous leaks out of Feith's office, however, -- and didn't Wolfowitz used to write policy papers for Sharon -- the issue is worth discussing.

[txindy]

153. I think so, too, but it's not worth the time or effort.

And God forbid if it turns out that you're Jewish, too, because you will STILL be an evil, Hitler-loving, Jew hater. Or so I've learned in the most retarded thread I've ever had the misfortune to wander into in the interest of learning more about HS and, by extension, the corruption of FEMA. It's too difficult for people to concentrate, apparently.

[nodehopper]

152. thank you and I agree

[sabra]

170. I agree 100%

[Sgent]

126. By some of these people's reasoning

Kerry is an Isreali citizen as well.

Attack his policies, but if he hasn't acted upon his Israeli citizenship (recieving passport, serving in the army, etc), then this is anti-semetic bullshit on par with David Duke.

[Cocoa]

138. has Chertoff been accused of any crime?

and no, dual citizenship with a demonized country does not count as a crime.

nor does his belonging to an often-scapegoated ethnic group count as a crime.

[DistressedAmerican]

145. This Is The Question I Am Left Asking...

Why is an evil sociopath the head of Homeland Security anyway?

That worries me a lot more than his passport status.

[Behind the Aegis]

147. Because...

...an evil sociopath is the head of the country!

Interesting, 145 responses...over three hours of life, and not ONE reliable source...just a site known for antisemitism!

[beam me up scottie]

157. Oh, SURE there was, I saw someone link to rense above...

What more could you want?
:banghead:

[Behind the Aegis]

160. I could give you this...

"Under control of the Jewish supremacists our nation's government has gone insane.

Sincerely, David Duke " Who also says that he is a dual citizen.

I won't hyperlink the site since it is a neo-Nazi website!

[beam me up scottie]

167. I'm REALLY hoping that this just keeps getting

brought up because people are unaware of how this issue is being used by the Nazis.

I'd hate to think that people are kicking this constantly in the hopes of spreading their propaganda.

It is funny, though, that some people continue to feign innocence after being informed previously that this was a non-issue being used as a vehicle by anti-Semitics.

[Name removed]

178. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[txindy]

151. Me, too. His background was but one piece of the puzzle

That's beyond too many people here, though. I wish he'd been a citizen of OompaLoompaLand, then maybe some people here wouldn't go into spasms at a discussion about him. He's evil and he's in charge of OUR National Security. I want to know EVERYTHING there is to know about him.

Instead, I've just greatly increased my Ignore list.

[incapsulated]

146. Dual Citizenship does not disqualify you from Security Clearance

Dual Citizenship is a consideration in Security Clearance but there is no rule against it. Obviously after 9/11, they pressure people to give it up.

From a Q and A on Jobs Live from the Washington Post:

Derrick Dortch: Hello Jerusalem,

Thanks for your question. Foreign Preference and Dual Citizenship is a major concern for the United States and can be a major factor in the security clearance process. Pre 9/11 it was a concern but not as major. Post 9/11 it is now a major concern. Most individuals are asked to give their full allegiance to the United States and give up their dual citizenship. This is a case-by-case situation but you should be prepared to do so.

Here is what the Adjudicative Desk Reference says about foreign preference:

The concern. When an individual acts in such a way as to indicate a preference for a foreign country over the United States, then he or she may be prone to provide information or make decisions that are harmful to the interests of the United States.

Conditions that could raise a security concern and may be disqualifying include:
a. The exercise of dual citizenship;
b. Possession and/or use of a foreign passport;
c. Military service or a willingness to bear arms for a foreign country;
d. Accepting educational, medical, or other benefits, such as retirement and social welfare, from a foreign country;
f. Residence in a foreign country to meet citizenship requirements;
g. Using foreign citizenship to protect financial or business interests in another country;
h. Seeking or holding political office in the foreign country;
h. Voting in foreign elections; and
I. Performing or attempting to perform duties, or otherwise acting, so as to serve the interests of another government in preference to the interests of the United States.

http://www.wpni.com/wp-dyn/articles/A8303-2005Feb8.html

From the State Department:

3. Security clearance evaluations/determinations must assure that access to classified information for a specific individual is "clearly consistent with the interests of national security." Under the adjudicative guidelines, "any doubt as to whether access to classified information is clearly consistent with national security will be resolved in favor of the national security." When making such a determination, DS must consider all available information, both positive and negative. This is the "whole person" concept. Dual nationality is a relevant element in some cases. While U.S. citizenship is a basic eligibility requirement to be considered for access to classified information, it does not automatically confer the right to a security clearance. Dual citizenship must be considered in context of other circumstances in an individual's background.

4. The Department has not implemented, and does not intend to implement, any "blanket rule" regarding dual citizenship. In making security clearance determinations, DS will continue to evaluate dual citizenship issues on a case-by-case basis. Applicants will be questioned about dual citizenship as part of their initial subject interview. Current employees will not generally be questioned about any foreign citizenship until the regularly scheduled periodic reinvestigation. Should an event trigger a review of an employee's access eligibility before their routine update, any foreign citizenship will be addressed at that time.

http://www.careers.state.gov/specialist/join/dualcitizen.html

[txindy]

154. My interest was in the implications, but this is interesting stuff

I don't know much about Chertoff, but I find the possible conflict of interests fascinating. If his citizenship is based solely on ancestral claims, as appears likely, then I don't see any conflict, at all.

Gee, it would've been nice to have come to that conclusion up around post 15-20 instead of experiencing "Let's burn down the board!" :eyes:

[incapsulated]

158. I really think it's just because his mother was Israeli

It confers upon him dual citizenship with Israel without any action on his part.

I will say, and I hope this doesn't get my head cut off, that I'm kinda in agreement with the policy of pressuring people to give up dual citizenship with ANY other country before handing over a high-level security clearance and was surprised to find out it wasn't against any regulations.

Well, you learn somethin' new every day. :shrug:

[txindy]

162. It really is surprising that it's not a security requirement, yes.

I won't cut your head off, although I understand the concern. :hug: I only wanted to confirm the original question of if it was true and suddenly I'm an evil-doer. And I don't even work for Junior! ;)

I'd be more surprised by the issue of a possible conflict of interests in this HS role if this was any other administration. However, conflicts and irony mean nothing to them (e.g., Cheney and Halliburton). They don't much care about appearances, either, which is why the scrambling to rebuild their image after Katrina's aftermath surprises me. I didn't think they cared enough to bother with any PR, at all.

[tx_dem41]

163. What you are implying is that no one of Jewish origin should hold...

a position in the U.S. Government, since all American Jews are automatically citizens of Israel.

This implication is despicable and should not in any way be associated with Democrats or the Democratic Party.

Please, find another board on which to spew this crap.

[rockymountaindem]

187. Thanks for saying that so I don't have to.

That's exactly what some people are implying. In all this thread, I'm surprised nobody has brought up the Alfred Dreyfuss affair, since your post pretty much sums up the French government's attitude during that case (replacing Israeli citizenship with automatic membership in "the world Jewish conspiracy).

[sabra]

168. As someone who is both an Israeli and US citizen I see no point in your

post! BTW, my children who were born here, are also considered Israeli citizens...

[beam me up scottie]

171. Damn. That's a thread-killer if I ever saw one.

:applause:

[Name removed]

179. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

201. Hey marry a Mexican man and you can have triple citizenship!

We should all fear you and ask your mother's maiden name :evilgrin:

[Catherine Vincent]

174. Didn't Madeline Albright have dual citizenship?

So I guess it's no big deal.

[Name removed]

205. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

175. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

180. Deleted message

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[Freedomfried]

210. No, I think you're the one with a problem

My only inquiry was as to why anyone with such a high security clearance requirement in the UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT would be allowed to hold the job with a former oath of allegiance already sworn to another country, should it be Israel, Spain, Lebanon or God forbid France.

You've obviously never experienced the background checks and interviews that a common serviceman or contractor would have to undergo in order to be granted a entac "secret" or above.

Contacts within, and loyalties to other governments are very much frowned upon.

So don't give me that discrimination B.S., please.

[Jersey Devil]

203. No!

What a bunch of crap.

[Technowitch]

212. Locking

This is flamebait and anti-Semitic.

-Technowitch
DU Moderator