Pic of "grain barge" that may have breached levee.

[Nitrogenica]

http://www.dfwforums.net/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=124&mode=&order=0&thold=0

I checked this out in photoshop and everything looks seamless, it's either authentic or very well done.

[aquart]

1. Am I seeing a barge on what was formerly dry land?

[dweller]

7. same question here

the water appears to be 'flowing' against the arrow direction. or at least to me.

other questions: who took the photo, that appears to be a flyover perspective.

why no damage to the barge?

curious.
dp

[Tin Man]

30. FWIW, another pic - different angle

More good info and satellite imagery in the following link
http://www.digitalglobe.com/images/katrina/Hurricane_Katrina-New_Orleans.pdf

[dweller]

40. and the water again appears

to be heading away from the barge, in this case towards the upper left of the pic.

not that i'd understand why it should, but appears wrong.

dp

[Tin Man]

47. water flows from high to low

As the storm surge surrounded the city - the water outside the levee was considerably higher than any water inside. When the levees broke - the flood waters poured into the city.

Later, when the storm surge retreated from around the city, there came a time when the floodwater accumulated inside the levee became higher than the water outside the levee, so the water poured out of the city. When the two levels equalized, the flow ceased.

[dweller]

52. from hi to lo? in *bush world?

yes, i know that it flows from hi to lo. This photo, and the one above is from after that fact. Got that.

appears to be at least one possibly 2 people in the phote you've provided, one with windsock, the other standing on roof mid side of barge?

maybe they could answer questions about how it got there. Posts below speculate.


too much cross info. Post below says it's in industrial area. :shrug:
That's not a bad looking house in that photo by the way, doesn't appear to be a tenement, or poorer based neighborhood.

i think i'll stick with pursuing the explosions heard by residents in the area of the initial devasting breach of the levee.
and see where that leads.

dp

[Tin Man]

55. satellite pix here

BTW, that's the Industrial Canal break.

More pix here: http://www.digitalglobe.com/images/katrina/Hurricane_Katrina-New_Orleans.pdf

[mattclearing]

2. I'm curious to hear more about this. Has anyone else come forward on it?

While I'll take Steve Harvey's word over most federal officials these days, it would be nice to get a second account.

The picture is pretty damning, though.

[Nitrogenica]

3. Yah I'm curious too I kinda just stumbled on it.

[rzemanfl]

9. Remember the plan, on the first day of the breach, to put a

barge across it? Could this be the barge? It would have had to have been placed across where the water was flowing out.

Oh shit, I am getting sucked into this.

[mattclearing]

12. I do remember this...they were trying to patch it with a barge.

Good call. It wasn't widely reported, and fell down the memory hole after the first few days or so.

[Nitrogenica]

32. Ok so that's another plan that didn't work out right then.

[never_get_over_it]

33. But the first day of the breach was after the storm passed through

so why would the barge be bashing against it if the storm was over - is this blame the barge defense? Blame the locals who put the barge there - it just seems funny to me that 10 days after the breach we're seeing this

[Tin Man]

43. The best info now places the breach opening *during* the storm

but news reports didn't get out until much later because of the continuing winds, lack of communications, and widespread damage.

Occam's Razor analysis: barge driven against levee in storm, levee fails, barge swept into city on surge. Later, when surge recedes from around city, waters begin to drain from within and barge is left high and dry within the levee walls.

[Land Shark]

68. ramming the levee, the barge has NO POWER to back up against H2O flow

so the barge should have broken through to the other side, or gotten hung up on the levee itself, not be 100 yards away...

[rzemanfl]

4. And then it floated against the current into the position it's in now?

Pretty hard to believe given the force of millions of gallons of water going the other way.

That barge is named the Karl Rove.

[mattclearing]

10. You're right...it should be out way past the levee in this picture. n/t

[fishnfla]

11. Initially the water would be going the other way

into the city. It could've rode the current in then.

[Jersey Devil]

25. It would have been WITH the current

From the lake to the city would be the way the current flowed and since the barge came to rest in the city it would have been moving with the current, not against it.

[Spangle]

5. That barge would still be in the area and seen in fly overs

This picture shows the barge had already crossed over the levee and was next to houses. No way they could move it until the water was high enough to float it back over the levee. Did the water rasie up high enough, that it would be possible to float it back over?

If anyone can figure out which break we are looking at.. and then view photos from fly overs, etc.. during the time right before and right after the levee break.. This barage would be there.

THAT would be the confirmation.

[AtTheEndOfTheDay]

6. This story was on TV 2 days ago.

Local residents were claiming it was done on purpose to save the French Quarter and sacrifice their neighborhood. That may be inaccurate but the footage definitely showed the barge and the water wall on its side. Apparently these water walls aren't the same as levees which are sloped earthen structures. They serve the same purpose though it seems.

[orpupilofnature57]

14. Shrubs only real concern in all this, MONEY rich peoples MONEY

[Spangle]

20. Flood Wall is on top of Levee

The levee is an earthen mound. The 2 ft thick wall is on top of that.

[madokie]

8. It looks like the water is running from where the houses are into the lake

Whats the deal with that.

[Roland99]

13. Uh...it floated UPSTREAM?

[Catherine Vincent]

17. Good catch.

:hi:

[Roland99]

19. Here's the Google Katrina Satellite Photo

It's from the Industrial Canal:

http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=29.971619,-90.022842&spn=0.006163,0.007838&t=e&hl=en

[fishnfla]

22. something's screwy

if the water was flooding into the city, that would be down current.

But the current is going out in this photo. I thought they had to pump it out?

[Roland99]

27. Yeah...it's like that part of the city was already flooded?

I dunno.

The Google imagery is from 8/31.

[Jersey Devil]

28. They reported that when the water equalized between the city

and the lake some of it began flowing back into the lake. So that is probably what they were talking about.

Certainly, the barge was NOT in the city to start out with. It had to be moving with the current to get in there.

[Roland99]

29. Yeah...suppose so. Still...seems odd

:)

[Ready4Change]

37. During the storm surge water flowed into the city

During the storm surge water flowed into the city, taking the barge with it. Now, after the storm, some of that water is flowing back into the lake. Looks like the barge got caught up in some trees and such.

That's why the water appears to be flowing the wrong way.

Stop looking for bombs blowing the levees. This storm was all it took. The REAL villany are the people who yanked the funding that would have rebuilt these levees to stand up to exactly this kind of storm.

[NorthernSpy]

41. OTOH, storm surges have been known to reverse the flow of rivers

I haven't heard whether that happened in this case, but it's something to keep in mind.

[tabasco]

15. Looks fake to me ! Used to work on tugboats and barges.

The barge would have grounded on the levee, not gone across it. Plus if you saw the video of the giant sandbags being dropped ...amazing! ...no big-ass grain barge nearby.

This seems like some twisted fuckers attempt to make the levee breach seem "unforeseen" to protect Bush. Absolutely amazing to what lengths cult members go to to protect the leader.

[Canuckistanian]

16. Could be that the barge was sucked through the hole in the levee

Which already existed. Kind of hard to pin the cause without witnesses.

And somehow, I don't think an unpowered barge could ram it's way through the massive embankment, storm or no storm.

But then again, I'm not an expert and I don't know all the possibilities.

[Zynx]

46. "Unpowered barge."

Barge weighs several thousand tons.

Hurricane can pick that up and move it quite easily, as fast as the waves are moving.

That's easily going to smash just about anything.

[Canuckistanian]

51. Hmm, yes, and I know how big they are

It was just a theory, though. I know that even small objects being driven at great force can be deadly.

I just couldn't imagine how great that force was.

[Sgent]

18. Photoshop genius

Because this is impossible.

The breech in the 17th St Canal is located on the river side of the Old Hammond Hwy Bridge. Since the bridge is not tall enough to allow a fishing boat through, a grain barge has no chance.

edit: The Bridge was undamnaged in the hurricane.

[Roland99]

26. Here's the Google Sat. imagery...it's not fake

http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=29.971619,-90.022842&spn=0.006163,0.007838&t=e&hl=en

[rzemanfl]

31. Remember the first day when they said they were going to use

a barge to seal the breach? Could this be the one? Looks way to short to fill the gap.

[Roland99]

59. Wrong canal. That was the 17th St. Canal being discussed.

This was Industrial (and it had another 500' break just north of that one)

[meisje]

42. YES! Google faked the photo, they are in on it!

What is scary is that some people have clicked this thread to agree with me

[crickets]

80. Re: Google Sat. imagery

What's with the blacked out areas nearby? The pictures usually blend together even when there's an obvious change in quality for pictures taken at different times/with different equipment, or there's a blank spot with an "image not available" message when there are no pictures at a certain resolution. I don't think it's anything nefarious, I'm just curious. I haven't seen that before, but maybe I haven't spent enough time surfing googlemaps.

[Spangle]

35. It's in the Satellite Photo

Take a look.

[Spangle]

39. Then how did it get there

We are now seeing other photos. And it's showing up on the satellite images.

If what you say is true, is there any other way this barge could have gotten there by some other route. Other wise, this is really, really wierd.

[dweller]

45. storm surge?

or from up 'river' ?

yeah, i know it was Lake Ponchetrain (sp) that was a major culprit, but where was the current taking anything? North, south, etc.

dp

[cynatnite]

21. What comes to mind is the casinos...

that were lifted up by the winds and set down.

They showed a major casino, huge place from the looks of it, that was lifted and set back down almost completely intact.

It seems to me that this could have happened as well...plus given that a storm was raging at the time, it's possible the barge went over after the levee broke.

There's not enough information to say one way or the other.

[rzemanfl]

23. Remember this is from Texas, who and what else have we

gotten from Texas and why an unnamed source?

[LincolnMcGrath]

24. Rove taking up Photoshop as of late?

[Avalux]

34. This is not a reliable source.

We should treat it for what it is - someone's idea of what might have occurred, nothing more.

[Nitrogenica]

36. Truth dat!

[Sgent]

38. Ok... I see what it is now

Remember that they used a barge at night to drop sandbags with when the helicopters couldn't fly.

My bet is that this is the one.

[Zynx]

44. Water's flowing out because it's now higher than the lake

[godai]

48. This is the INDUSTRIAL Canal

Don't know why but seems that this has not been shown on TV. This canal is probably not under repair (may be impossible to repair). Seems logical that the barge could have done the damage and this might explain the 'explosions' heard (barge hitting the concrete wall).

[godai]

50. Described as an 800 ft break on the Digiglobe images (eom)

[newyawker99]

73. Hi godai!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Sarojin]

49. I think the barge went thru b/c of the breech n/t

[NNN0LHI]

53. Barge could have crashed through canal's floodwall

http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/index.ssf?/base/news-2/112598630787230.xml&coll=1

A loose barge may have caused a large breach in the east side of the Industrial Canal floodwall that accelerated Hurricane Katrina's rising floodwaters in New Orleans' Lower Ninth Ward and adjacent St. Bernard Parish, Army Corps of Engineers project manager Al Naomi said yesterday.

Naomi said the barge was found on the land side of the floodwall, leading Army Corps officials to believe it could have crashed through the wall and sent a huge amount of water -- which was already pouring over the top -- into the neighborhoods immediately downriver.

"We have some pictures that show this very large barge inside the protected area. It had to go through the breach," Naomi said. "The opening is a little bit wider than the barge itself. One would think it's the barge that did it."

If it did strike the floodwall, Naomi said, the barge would have "precipitated a tremendous collapse" that would have quickly flooded the Lower Ninth Ward and then St. Bernard Parish.

There are two large breaches in the floodwall, said Ivor Van Heerden, deputy director of the Louisiana State University Hurricane Center, who did an aerial survey of flood damage Sunday. The larger of the two, possibly caused by the barge, is about 800 feet long. The second is 500 feet.

[smurfygirl]

54. so a levee couldn't hold the barge but trees and

rubbage can? yeah right.

[smurfygirl]

56. who is the guy waving a white flag? n/t

[Silverhair]

58. One is driven by 145 mph winds, the other isn't.

Or did you forget about the hurricane? It crashes through under the pushing of 145 mph winds. After the storm is gone, then the water flow reverses and without winds it doesn't take much to hold it.

[alphafemale]

63. There's also trees still along the line of the breech, nt

[tuckessee]

57. Whose barge is it?

It's gotta have an owner and somebody should know where it was moored or anchored before the storm.

There may have even been a crew on it. In the photo in post #30 there's a guy with a white flag stranded on top of the barge.

[Jabbawest]

60. Author here.

Thanks for checking out my place.
That image is in no way photoshopped, well except for the arrows and text I added. I use photoshop but I suck at it.
I kept seeing that barge in so many aerial shots and I only put two and two together when I heard the Steve Harvey interview.
Days passed since that blurb and no one has discussed it, so I posted what I saw.
Considering all the levee breaches, I guess it's not that big a deal but it was the largest breach.

As for the possibility of using the barge to plug the levee. I've watched the coverage non-stop and I never saw any such attempt. I do remember The Army Corp of Engineers discussing two options.
#1 Fill shipping containers with debris and drop them into the breach.
#2 They supposedly dropped a couple of junk cars into it but gave up once the sandbag crew was in place.

You could not use that barge to plug the levee, ahhh, because it floats. They would have had to shoot holes in it or use dynamite to blast holes in it for it to sink.

Thanks again.

[Roland99]

61. Thanks for posting and welcome to DU, Jabbawest!

[newyawker99]

74. Hi Jabbawest!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Nitrogenica]

79. Thanks Jabba! Welcome to DU!

[illuminaughty]

83. Evacuee has more photos that will raise lots of questions

I saw this post yesterday and by chance my friend called today after a weekend at Camp Gruber in Oklahoma. She saw pictures and video from evacuee who had not even seen tv coverage yet - he says "they did it.." and something about Panavision.

We will find out more tomorrow. This person has thankfully gotten out of Camp Gruber, which is another story in itself, and is supposed to be e-mailing pictures to my friend. My friend was never a tin foiler but she's a believer now. This person who has the pictures is very credible, works with well known musicians, and has vowed to get this story out. I think we will be more than shocked as a nation as these people begin to be able to really tell their stories.

[A-Possum]

62. This barge was clearly seen on MSNBC tonight

I think it was Rita Cosby interviewing 2 men living on a bridge. One man pointed over his shoulder at the levee breach and said his house used to be there and it was gone. Rita said, "Right beside where that barge is?" or something like that.

It's clearly there, big red rectangular thing just where it's shown in the photos. She didn't seem to think there was anything odd about it, but then she wasn't focused on it except as a landmark to orient where the man's house had been.

BTW, the water is flowing the opposite direction now because the lake is lower at this point than the flooded city, so they are allowing it to drain w/o repairing the breach.

Seems only logical that a barge now on this side of the levee either caused the breach or washed through it afterward. That could be possible, with so much water pouring through, that a loose barge would wash with it.

It's certainly an interesting question. Doesn't seem anyone has really noticed this barge yet.

On edit: Oh, I now read up thread that there was an attempt to close the breach with a barge. Probably that's it.

[newyawker99]

75. Hi A-Possum!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[A-Possum]

77. Thanks, actually been here a few years

I have to re-register everytime cause I can't remember my former pword and never seem able to come up with the combo of email/username that works to retrieve it! ;) Doh.

[Must_B_Free]

64. confused by this pic

what is all that grass over to the right?

[magellan]

65. A reporter asked about this during a ACoE press conference last week

The reporter asked if there was any truth to the rumor that a loose barge was responsible for one of the breaches. His response was no. But he also said there would be no environmental impact on Lake Pontchartrain or downstream due to the filthy polluted waters being pumped out of NOLA.

Looks like this is true.

[soup]

66. Photos from German Press

Is this the same area? Is that a barge?


http://stern.de/politik/panorama/544974.html?nv=fs&cp=17


http://stern.de/politik/panorama/544974.html?nv=fs&cp=16

DUer wake.up.america posted Katrina galleries on a thread earlier today, and these were among them.

Apologies if these don't relate to the discussion.

[Jabbawest]

67. More Great Examples!

Thanks soup.
Again. I can't fathom the ACoE trying to use a floating barge as a plug for a levee breach.
Such an ambitious plan would have been thoroughly covered and discussed. There would have been tug boats maneuvering the barge into position while it was some how scuttled into the spot where they wanted it.
Look at how much coverage the sandbag drops have received.

[soup]

71. You're welcome.

and a welcome to DU, Jabbawest. :hi:

Thought the addition of 'reliable' sources might help.

[ohio_liberal]

76. Barges aren't safe in waters like that

Maneuvering them around waters like that would be extremely difficult. I've lived on the Ohio River all my life and I can tell you that no river pilot here would attempt to guide a barge anywhere in waters filled with debris and unusual currents like the breach shown here would cause. So the idea of sinking barges, in my not terribly educated opinion, is a no go. It's just not safe.

I've also seen 7 barges break loose and slam into the Ft Henry Bridge in Wheeling WV without causing a bit of structural damage. I don't personally think the barge caused the breach.

[soup]

69. CNN photo

HURRICANE KATRINA: AFTER THE STORM (AUG. 31)

Floodwaters from Hurricane Katrina flow through a broken levee near downtown New Orleans on Tuesday.
Gallery: Aftermath of Katrina:
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2005/katrina/
:shrug:

[tx_dem41]

70. Self delete

Self delete

[Javaman]

72. Major Bullshit Alert!!!

Honestly folks, don't you think if this was the least bit true the repukes would be screaming from every corner of the U.S. that it wasn't their lack of funds, their cutting of support, etc, that caused the levee to break, but in fact it was a grain barge????

This is a colossal pile of bullshit. Gigantic in fact.

And if, IF, this is real, so what? It's still a failure on their part to send in supplies in time to save people. Whether it was water, a barge or a kid pulling his finger from the dike, it's still no excuse for the lack of planning, lack of funding and lack of help that killed all those poor poeple.

So once again, this is bullshit, no more no less.

colossal failure*.

[Jabbawest]

78. Insurance Considerations

Many may think I brought up this issue because I want to absolve some in government from their responsiblities.
Fine.
But I'll bet you'll change your tune if the many people without flood insurance are made whole because of that loose barge.

Just a thought.

[kwassa]

81. The Wall Street Journal was all over this yesterday

Believe it or not, they are doing a great job of reporting on Katrina, and are highly critical of Bush.

They discussed the barge theory yesterday, and said it broke through on Monday, during the storm, on the Industrial Canal, not the 17th street canal flooding on Tuesday.

[Jabbawest]

82. Link?

That's positive news.
Could you dig around a bit and post a link or paste the text?

Thanks.