I will vote for any Democrat

[Zodiak]

who stands up to Bush now.

That included Leiberman...that includes Zell Miller. Any Democrats who ignores the "strategists" and media people and presses the issue of criminal neglect for Katrina will get my vote because those Democrats actually care about American citizens.

And taking down a dictator makes one a hero, in my opinion.

Do you hear that? I, like so many here, am NOT an ideological purist when it comes to my vote. But I am against Bush because Bush hates Americans. He is the enemy.

I can work with someone I disagree with. I cannot work with someone who refuses to do their job or continually makes excuses to not do their job. And yes, that means RISKING one's job in this day and age. But hey, that is what courage is all about!

How many "purists" feel the same?

[Frances]

1. I think you make good sense

I am no historian, but I have always understood that both the communists in Russia and the fascists in Germany benefitted from a divided opposition when they were coming to power. I think the future of our country is at stake now and that Dems should unite to save it.

[Zodiak]

2. There have been some surprising names

Clinton, Pelosi, Reid, Dean, Edwards, Clark, and choice members of the CBC.

I am taking these names and noting how they behave in this crisis. Yes, it is a crisis, and a crisis is what tests one's mettle.

I don't *need* progressives at every turn. I only need leadership, caring, and, above all, a willingness to listen.

[Zodiak]

3. self-delete

[Zodiak]

4. self-delete...hiccupping internet

[wuushew]

5. Bush and Lieberman are in perfect alignment with PNAC

removing Bush from office would significantly reduce the chance of war with Iran. Therefore this scenario is not likely.


:nuke:

[freemen2005]

6. Why vote for either of the 2 big parties?

vote for one of the smaller ones...

did you know that Kerry and Bush are part of the same secret society?
The Skull & Bones. Yep google it.

it doesnt matter who won the last election because inn the end the ultimate agenda of this elitist group woulld/will be carried to fruition.

[bee]

8. yeah. skull & bones, illuminati, new world order... blecchh!

but we wouldnt be in THIS mess if Kerry was in office. And you forgot the PNAC to which Kerry does not belong. And that, in my opinion is one many giant differences between the two. kerry and bush despite skull and bones do not share the same agenda. Be carefull not to let yourself get pigeon-holed by that line of thinking.

[Zodiak]

11. hahaha

I'm sorry, but everyone on DU knows that Kerry was in Skull 'n Bones. That meme is well-over a year old and this is a VERY informed bunch. Just sayin'

Right now, it is about getting a dangerous, criminal administration out of office before they kill any more of us and enact a full-blown police state to not lose power. They seem to be trying very hard right now.

I said I would vote for Leiberman ONLY IF he stands up now. He has not, but it served as an example of how far "across the fence" I am willing to go.

SOME Dems are falling back into my favoribility fold right now, and I am happy about that, but it is not because they are Dems. It is because they are doing something.

If they give us Bush's walking papers on a silver platter, I will vote for them in gratitiude for thwarting the greatest threat to world peace and stability since Kruzchev (sp?). But they must act NOW or forever be held in contempt as complicit.

Of course, Al Gore gets a free pass. That man can;t do anything politically, but he sure did a great job as a citizen. I'd vote for him (in his present form) any time.

[Zodiak]

12. because...

no one in the smaller parties can do anything right now. They are unrepresented. Now, if the Greens and the Dems want to get together for a thrust in impeachment, that would suit me fine.

But we are talking NOW, and NOW, only Democrats, the media, and the people can do anything. The media is back into spin mode (with a few, notable exceptions), the people are not oprganized enough, and the Dems need to act now.

So....any Dems that takes up the mantle, you will be noted and put on the "good" list. I don't care if you are DLC, blue dog, yellow dog, or a "new" Democrat. Just protect the American poeple from this crazy-ass dictator, and at least you have the primary quality of a political leader (caring about the people).

Anyone who doesn't speak up likes their job more than the people, and should be kicked to the curb and replaced with a Dem who does. Or a Green...or a friggin' Martian, but DO IT!

[Dogmudgeon]

7. I'm not a purist -- and here is why

As much of a Republican fanny-smoocher Lieberman (for example) is, he's still delivered a few good kidney-punches to the Elephant over the past several years. For every quisling vote or Bush-pleasing quotation he's made, he's also quietly twisted the knife on another occasion.

There are even Republicans who have acted this way to Bush. One thing to keep in mind is that radicals like Bush are the marginal force in American politics, so even "enemies" can be our friends often enough to surprise us.

Taking down Bush and undoing a century or more of right-wing domination will require a lot of calculation, finesse, and cleverness. Ranting about treason and swearing eternal emnity for our co-partisans is not likely to help this process along. Intelligent action, often over a long period of time, is what brings tyrants down. I say this not to allow letting the bastards get away with murder indefinitely, but to encourage the development of our own stamina.

Fighting for one's beliefs is a beneficial process, too; but the ideal is to let the battles be fought in a world of solidarity. To use the example that was popular a few years ago, I want the world to allow Liberals and Progressive Radicals the ability to fight on a political continuum that has moved to the left.

Right now, the main fight is against an Empire which has laid claim to our planet, our works, our minds and our bodies. I do not mind grappling with issues of progressive theory and practice as long as we are a single fighting force on the battlefield of history.

</manifesto>

--p!

[confludemocrat]

10. OK, apologize for Lieberman, but where's his "kidney-punch" now?

when it's really needed?

[Dogmudgeon]

14. He was the first Democrat to announce holding hearings

He announced it as part of a "bipartisan" effort with Susan Collins (R-Maine), who is often denounced as a "RINO" and a "Traitor!" by her fellow Republicans. C'est la guerre. Immediately thereafter, Bush proclaimed that he himself would lead the investigation into his own incompetence. Stout fellow! -- NOT.

I sense that you're just running on hatred for Lieberman, though. I have no particular love for the man, but spending time hating him is time you'll never get back. I see a lot of this on DU, and most of it seems like spill-over from frustration.

In the long run, "Joementum" is irrelevant. As far as I'm concerned, he can lead, follow, or get out of the way. But when he does something to stifle the radical Republican agenda, he should get a pat on the head. Yep, that's the entirety of my apology for him. If he's really that bad, those who want him out should work with Democratic Party insurgents in Connecticut to oust him in the next primary.

Same thing with "Naderites" and Ralph himself. Most of them are clearly "on our side", and Nader's main blunder IMO is his hatred for the Democratic Party. It is worthless to continue to gnash teeth over him.

You need not convince me that Joe Lieberman or other "DINOs" are less than ideal. The argument I make is that the amount of rage they cause is far out of proportion to the trouble they make. It also causes us to lose sight of winning strategies. If we were a little less willing to strike a match to the gasoline over the IWR, we'd have a powerful argument in "(so-and-so) voted for the IWR because the President lied to make the case". By choosing to cry "Treason!" over "Deceit!", we lose a long-term, powerful weapon against the radical Right and Bush himself. The argument that Bush lied gets so little traction because we've focused the attention on those who believed him.

Most of the rest of this larger issue is argumentation and clarification, and I probably agree with most of anyone's points. My agenda is for humanistic and progressive political change; personalities are secondary. So what if Lieberman kisses Bush butt or Zell goes off his meds? Fred "God Hates Fags" Phelps is a Democrat, too. But as far as I'm concerned, he's a hate-filled little backwoods madman who is no part of the political process I'm involved in.

And I don't care if I never rage out at Bush again -- as long as he gets kicked out on his lying ass, faces a court of justice, and lives to see the history books scorn his name, I'll be happy.

--p!

[confludemocrat]

9. That's not asking too much, but some here are going to be wary of that

anyway. Go figure.

[Johonny]

13. Well

I'd vote for a Tunip over any Republican at this point.