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timber84 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 11:10 AM
Original message
Help I'm being Freeperd at Work!
Everyone reciting the editorial by Robert Tracinski>>>
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wakeme2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
1. do you have a link to it nt
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timber84 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. no link but here it is very long sorry


September 5, 2005
Unnatural Disaster: A Hurricane Exposes the Man-Made Disaster of the Welfare State
By Robert Tracinski

It took four long days for state and federal officials to figure out how to deal with the disaster in New Orleans. I can't blame them, because it also took me four long days to figure out what was going on there. The reason is that the events there make no sense if you think that we are confronting a natural disaster.

If this is just a natural disaster, the response for public officials is obvious: you bring in food, water, and doctors; you send transportation to evacuate refugees to temporary shelters; you send engineers to stop the flooding and rebuild the city's infrastructure. For journalists, natural disasters also have a familiar pattern: the heroism of ordinary people pulling together to survive; the hard work and dedication of doctors, nurses, and rescue workers; the steps being taken to clean up and rebuild.

Public officials did not expect that the first thing they would have to do is to send thousands of armed troops in armored vehicle, as if they are suppressing an enemy insurgency. And journalists—myself included—did not expect that the story would not be about rain, wind, and flooding, but about rape, murder, and looting.

But this is not a natural disaster. It is a man-made disaster.

The man-made disaster is not an inadequate or incompetent response by federal relief agencies, and it was not directly caused by Hurricane Katrina. This is where just about every newspaper and television channel has gotten the story wrong.

The man-made disaster we are now witnessing in New Orleans did not happen over four days last week. It happened over the past four decades. Hurricane Katrina merely exposed it to public view.

The man-made disaster is the welfare state.

For the past few days, I have found the news from New Orleans to be confusing. People were not behaving as you would expect them to behave in an emergency—indeed, they were not behaving as they have behaved in other emergencies. That is what has shocked so many people: they have been saying that this is not what we expect from America. In fact, it is not even what we expect from a Third World country.

When confronted with a disaster, people usually rise to the occasion. They work together to rescue people in danger, and they spontaneously organize to keep order and solve problems. This is especially true in America. We are an enterprising people, used to relying on our own initiative rather than waiting around for the government to take care of us. I have seen this a hundred times, in small examples (a small town whose main traffic light had gone out, causing ordinary citizens to get out of their cars and serve as impromptu traffic cops, directing cars through the intersection) and large ones (the spontaneous response of New Yorkers to September 11).

So what explains the chaos in New Orleans?

To give you an idea of the magnitude of what is going on, here is a description from a Washington Times story:

"Storm victims are raped and beaten; fights erupt with flying fists, knives and guns; fires are breaking out; corpses litter the streets; and police and rescue helicopters are repeatedly fired on.

"The plea from Mayor C. Ray Nagin came even as National Guardsmen poured in to restore order and stop the looting, carjackings and gunfire....

"Last night, Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco said 300 Iraq-hardened Arkansas National Guard members were inside New Orleans with shoot-to-kill orders.

"'These troops are...under my orders to restore order in the streets,' she said. 'They have M-16s, and they are locked and loaded. These troops know how to shoot and kill and they are more than willing to do so if necessary and I expect they will.'"

The reference to Iraq is eerie. The photo that accompanies this article shows a SWAT team with rifles and armored vests riding on an armored vehicle through trash-strewn streets lined by a rabble of squalid, listless people, one of whom appears to be yelling at them. It looks exactly like a scene from Sadr City in Baghdad.

What explains bands of thugs using a natural disaster as an excuse for an orgy of looting, armed robbery, and rape? What causes unruly mobs to storm the very buses that have arrived to evacuate them, causing the drivers to speed away, frightened for their lives? What causes people to attack the doctors trying to treat patients at the Superdome?

Why are people responding to natural destruction by causing further destruction? Why are they attacking the people who are trying to help them?

My wife, Sherri, figured it out first, and she figured it out on a sense-of-life level. While watching the coverage one night on Fox News Channel, she told me that she was getting a familiar feeling. She studied architecture at the Illinois Institute of Chicago, which is located in the South Side of Chicago just blocks away from the Robert Taylor Homes, one of the largest high-rise public housing projects in America. "The projects," as they were known, were infamous for uncontrollable crime and irremediable squalor. (They have since, mercifully, been demolished.)

What Sherri was getting from last night's television coverage was a whiff of the sense of life of "the projects." Then the "crawl"—the informational phrases flashed at the bottom of the screen on most news channels—gave some vital statistics to confirm this sense: 75% of the residents of New Orleans had already evacuated before the hurricane, and of those who remained, a large number were from the city's public housing projects. Jack Wakeland then told me that early reports from CNN and Fox indicated that the city had no plan for evacuating all of the prisoners in the city's jails—so they just let many of them loose.

There is no doubt a significant overlap between these two populations--that is, a large number of people in the jails used to live in the housing projects, and vice versa.

There were many decent, innocent people trapped in New Orleans when the deluge hit—but they were trapped alongside large numbers of people from two groups: criminals—and wards of the welfare state, people selected, over decades, for their lack of initiative and self-induced helplessness. The welfare wards were a mass of sheep—on whom the incompetent administration of New Orleans unleashed a pack of wolves.

All of this is related, incidentally, to the incompetence of the city government, which failed to plan for a total evacuation of the city, despite the knowledge that this might be necessary. In a city corrupted by the welfare state, the job of city officials is to ensure the flow of handouts to welfare recipients and patronage to political supporters—not to ensure a lawful, orderly evacuation in case of emergency.

No one has really reported this story, as far as I can tell. In fact, some are already actively distorting it, blaming President Bush, for example, for failing to personally ensure that the Mayor of New Orleans had drafted an adequate evacuation plan. The worst example is an execrable piece from the Toronto Globe and Mail, by a supercilious Canadian who blames the chaos on American "individualism." But the truth is precisely the opposite: the chaos was caused by a system that was the exact opposite of individualism.

What Hurricane Katrina exposed was the psychological consequences of the welfare state. What we consider "normal" behavior in an emergency is behavior that is normal for people who have values and take the responsibility to pursue and protect them. People with values respond to a disaster by fighting against it and doing whatever it takes to overcome the difficulties they face. They don't sit around and complain that the government hasn't taken care of them. And they don't use the chaos of a disaster as an opportunity to prey on their fellow men.

But what about criminals and welfare parasites? Do they worry about saving their houses and property? They don't, because they don't own anything. Do they worry about what is going to happen to their businesses or how they are going to make a living? They never worried about those things before. Do they worry about crime and looting? But living off of stolen wealth is a way of life for them.

People living in piles of their own trash, while petulantly complaining that other people aren't doing enough to take care of them and then shooting at those who come to rescue them—this is not just a description of the chaos at the Superdome. It is a perfect summary of the 40-year history of the welfare state and its public housing projects.

The welfare state—and the brutish, uncivilized mentality it sustains and encourages—is the man-made disaster that explains the moral ugliness that has swamped New Orleans. And that is the story that no one is reporting.

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timber84 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
2. I CAN GET IT IF YOU REALLY WNT TO READ IT
posters here were talking about it earlier, it's being sent via e-mail.
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
3. Here are some facts to fight back with:
The entire state of Louisiana has about 60,000 welfare recipients, approx 23,500 families. http://www.acf.hhs.gov/news/stats/Mar02-Mar03.htm
The total population of Louisiana is 4.5 million. http://www.census.gov/census2000/states/la.html
Those on welfare represent 1.3% of the population.

There were approximately 25,000 people at he Superdome and 20,000 at the convention center; Untold numbers that remained in New Orleans. Statistically speaking, they all can't represent the total Louisiana welfare state. Let's say they represent over 50% of the Louisiana's welfare recipeints: 22,500 people.

There is no question of the raping, looting, and lawlessness that existed. But the overwhelming majority didn't resort to crime. The probably represented less than 10% of those who were stuck in mire. Let's call that number to be around 2,000 (a high number). These numbers in my mind don't support the logic of the article.

His article was an overt attack on "The Welfare State" and "Welfare Parasites". He got ALL of his information from his wife's retelling of a Fox News presentation. He claims to be a journalist, but then just regurgitates Fox News from his living room chair. And he abuses the term "objectivist" - he is most clearly unreasonable and biased.

He's an idiot and anyone who thinks he has anything worthy to say is an ignorant uneducated lazy thinker themselves.
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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
5. Link here:
http://tiadaily.com/php-bin/news/showArticle.php?id=1026

It's vile garbage. It blames the welfare system for killing the people of New Orleans.

Ideology over substance.

The underlying message is one of racism.

It is beneath contempt.

Anyone who quoted this garbage to me right now would be chewing on a knuckle sandwich in short order
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timber84 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. They know I'm the only liberal here so are hitting me hard
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. That is horrible that they are circling you like some smug hyenas.
Please take care. :hug:
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MamaBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. GOP Talking Points
Air America aired a Rush rant yesterday that was point-for-point identical to what was printed above.

The One True Party has put this out for talking points and the mouth breathers are falling in line.

Sorry for your troubles at work. Try to maintain your sanity. Just remember, it's useless talking to them in groups. Try to reason with the most reasonable of the lot in a one-on-one.

Courage!
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timber84 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 11:47 AM
Original message
trying very hard all men and very stuborn well like me
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timber84 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #8
20. trying very hard all men and very stuborn well like me
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timber84 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #8
21. trying very hard all men and very stuborn well like me
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ArkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. We heard ya the first time.
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timber84 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. hit post one too many times
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2Design Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. use ear plugs -
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txaslftist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #6
24. Tell them fuck themselves.
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
9. Halliburton is a billion dollar welfare pig. No bid contracts,overcharging
the U.S. taxpyaers for services in Iraq.

Fuck a freeper. They aren't programmed to listen.
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katusha Donating Member (592 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
10. sooooo, another bush failure
it's been four years since bush took office and almost 10 years since "welfare reform" was passed into law. so if that many people were still on welfare it represents a failure of bush to live up to his own conservative ideaology. of course it'a all bullshit, this whole welfare is to blame crap, but if they spew it then let them know that it is just more failed leadership from bush!
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freemen2005 Donating Member (226 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
12. facts from the census board itself
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TNOE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
13. Same here
I got this e-mail yesterday at work - and responded, and have lots of hate e-mail today.

Thanks to some poster (I WISH I KNEW WHO) - who posted this:

http://www.blackcommentator.com/149/149_think_wise_new_orleans.html

This guys says it better than I ever could - will be forwarding to the hateful e-mail senders.
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
14. Tell them to quit thumping their bibles and crack 'em open once in awhile
And lo, Jesus said "the poor are lazy, long live the rich". Whether or not god exists, most neocons believe he does. What a bunch of hypocrites they are to use god as an excuse for their shit behavior but conveniently ignore the parts that don't help their selfish agenda.
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
15. TIMELINE-this is all you need
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The White Tree Donating Member (630 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
16. Throw his words back at them:
Edited on Thu Sep-08-05 11:44 AM by The White Tree
From the article that was posted here he says:

People with values respond to a disaster by fighting against it and doing whatever it takes to overcome the difficulties they face. They don't sit around and complain

If that is true then where was the President? He stayed on vacation 2 days after the hurricane hit, attending other functions. He made the excuse that he did not want to get in the way. He made the comment, "No one could have anticipated the levees breaking". He and his people complain about the people pointing fingures at them and playing the blame game.

Wasn't he elected for moral reasons, i.e. as a man of values? Is this not the same guy who flew back in the middle of the night to sign legislation to save a brain dead woman.

In effect his response to this disaster has been to sit around and complain that people shouldn't blame him. And he was not even in an area that was devastated, where there was no food or safe water, where 90+ heat was roasting people alive.

How cannot you make this statement and not make that comparison.

Ask yourselves this. When the death toles finally come in, how many will have been killed by looters and how many will have died because the people who lead our government, who had the resources to do whatever it takes to overcome the difficulties, did not.


Edited for a statement that got cut and pasted into the wrong placee when I typed this up.
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Tess49 Donating Member (606 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
17. Someone from my office e-mailed me this Tuesday night.
It really pissed me off. She was absent yesterday, which was a good thing, or I might have said some ugly things to a person that I, otherwise, like. She has sent other things in the past, which I ignore and don't comment on. I give her some slack because she has had a lot of tragedy in her life, has a daughter in the military (who,surprise! won't get to come home as promised) and because, well, she's not exactly the analytical type.
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timber84 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. I emailed back to the person that sent it that he oughta stick to
the porn he emails all the guys here at work.He is unaware that I know about all the smut he sends to the guys at work here.
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z-man Donating Member (41 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
18. There were reports of rape
after the tsunami as well, and they don't have welfare in those countries.
Rape is about power and control. How they connect that someone getting $285 a month turns them into a rapist is beyond me. So basically their logic is because these people are so lazy and unwilling to work that they expect a handout, that this "entitled" thinking somehow turns them into rapists?
By their own logic they would be at the most risk for rape because they feel the most entitled, and they do. They rape the environment, they rape the school systems, they rape the federal coffers, they rape the truth, they rape democracy.
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ArkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
22. Does anyone have time to work?
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Zodiak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
25. this is harsh, but true
When they bring up the "welfare state" crap, you can always point out that welfare has been gutted, so it is a moot point.

But the better response is this "why don't you just call them n****rs and get it over with, you racists."

Anyone who can look at that sheer level of human suffering and complain about welfare deserves no more respect than that. They are racists who take solace in their coded language, thinking it is okay to think such things if you don;t say them specifically.
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timber84 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. My post abouth that very thing was deleted by mods yesterday
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
26. Ask them what they think of the corporate welfare state,
& pull some salient facts from this website to throw in their face:

http://www.corpwatch.org/
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txaslftist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
27. Seriously. Tell them to fuck off and get back to work.
What the hell are they standing around for?
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