PHOTOS: The water is wide, I cannot get over.

[Bluebear]

The water is wide, I cannot get over,
neither have I wings to fly...

Give me a boat that can carry two
And both shall row, my love and I.


I leaned my back against an oak
thinking it was a trusty tree,
But first it bent and then it broke...
Must I go bound while you go free?


Oh love be handsome and love be great
Sweet as a jewel when first it is new...


The water is wide, I cannot get over,
neither have I wings to fly.

===

America, so many left in New Orleans are not "renegades and holdouts". They WOULD NOT LEAVE their BEST FRIENDS.

[shraby]

1. We wouldn't..they aren't only our

best friends, they are our four-footed children.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. ok let me reach for my rescue hat

there are reasons why amimals are not high in the priority list in wide spread disasters, and the reasons are valid and have to do with public health.

Now short term disasters, such as even the Cedar Fires in California, you can and should evacuate animals... indeed they were.

But when given a choice, human, dog, I will pull the human out every time... and yes I am a pet owner and know what this means to my three children (they are birds)...

Now there are exceptions to this, companion dogs under fedeeral law go everywhere their owner goes, and in that case, they can and shoudl be checked by vets workign with the cadaver and body recovery dogs.

But in any disaster, as much as it breaks my heart, animals are not that high, not here, not anywhere in the world.

Oh and getting to my asbestos suit, becuase I know many cannot and will not see this... but fluffy or Mike, it is Mike... and if Mike chooses to stay behind... fine, sign this legal release.

[mopaul]

6. sad but true

i've owned MANY cats and dogs, but when the man says come on it's time to go and you can't take the dog,.....people come first.

if you CAN take the dog, then of course take him.

when i was a kid, my folks raised hogs, and several were pets, and i was heartbroken when we had to eat them.

i had a cat go mad and began attacking children and i couldn't afford to take it to a vet, so i shot it, and was upset for months over it. but people come first.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. I hope you are being sarcastic here

somehow I suspect you are not...

[mopaul]

10. i love animals, but i don't see them as people or four legged kids

i see them as animals, people come first. i wish we could save all the animals, even the doomed alligators, not being sarcastic, the water will kill them and any dogs that drink the water. packs of wild starving diseased dogs are roaming new orleans now, sad, tragic, horrific, but true.

you can personify pets all you want but the cops won't.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. ahem read my original post

I said that as a rescue worker, (been there, done that) I have to choose between fluffy or johnny, I choocse Johnny.

Yes these birds are my kids, I don't have kids, but I also realize in a diaaster I get my ass out first, not them.

So take this to the OP ok, who is trying to make the animals far more important than they are.

[friesianrider]

39. "trying to make the animals far more important than they are."

That is a sick comment. No one is trying to say animals are "more important" but to many people (and I mean MANY people) their pets are as valuable to them asa human child. Why can't you understand that? We all get that YOU would dump your pet in a heartbeat if it meant saving your own skin, but for those of us who love our pets as much as a human child, we would risk our own lives for our pets. I know I would.

Honestly, if you have nothing constructive to say besides insulting how others feel about their animals, can't you please just stay off this thread? My God...

[Rex]

66. Some people think they have a right to be more important.

I have far less respect for humans as a species than I do for other animals. If that makes me a loony than so be it.

[friesianrider]

67. I agree.

"I have far less respect for humans as a species than I do for other animals. If that makes me a loony than so be it."

Truer words have never been spoken.

[mopaul]

14. pardon my harsh tone

i meant you no disrespect. i choose words poorly a lot.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. We are under pressure

but nothing like the peoople working this

[neweurope]

31. The last flood in the Netherlands: All animals were rescued,

among them 100.000 cows.

AND ALL THE COWS WERE MILKED.


--------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[Bluebear]

32. Dank u wel, Nederlands

[truedelphi]

36. I hope I live to see this country

Someday be

The United States of America of the East Netherlands!

Carol

[friesianrider]

44. Well lookie there! You mean to tell me it is possible to save both?

Well shit, I never thought of THAT. I thought you could only care about people OR animals and not both. :eyes:

I think it is time people stop thinking it is a far-fetched idea to think we could rescue and save people AND animals in a disaster like this.

[Bluebear]

It's time for a public dialogue on this

Before the next "big ones" strike. Clearly the federal government could give a crap about US let alone our pets, so we need to make alternative plans. Maybe grassroots efforts are in order to lobby our local leaders to set up animal-friendly shelters.

[neweurope]

47. Please understand: My point is that not only ALL animals got

rescued - and Friesian Rider having horses understands about the difficulty to rescue 100.000 cows - but:

Every cow got milked.

That means: Not only were the animals rescued but they were also being taken care of as best people could.

EVERY COW GOT MILKED.

Yes, and for everybody else: No person died. Every person got three meals a day. The Netherlands, Belgia and Germany worked together on this. Be nice, have friends, accept and receive help. Care, think, plan. Simple, Really.

All the cows got milked.

------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[whopis01]

70. which flood was that?

Which flood was that? Was that the 1953 flood? The one with the 3.36m storm surge?

[neweurope]

72. No, one of those floods in the nineties, I think.

Forgot which. Somebody posted it here last week, but I cannot use the search function unfortunately.

------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[Why Syzygy]

69. I see homeless people in our town

all the time with a little puppy on a leash. If they go to a food pantry, they can even get pet food! Companionship. Everyone needs it.

[kath]

54. And in the Netherlands, they had a REAL War on Poverty - and they WON

Totally different mindset from The Laaa-aand of the Fuh-reeeee, and the Hoooooome of the Brave, eh??

[rodeodance]

7. i thank the goddesses that people are starting to care for these pets

[fooj]

2. Oh Blue...you're making me cry! I love my dog.

I don't know what I would do. I'm not sure that I could leave her.

Peace.

[Benbow]

3. There's research, much of it in the US, I believe, that shows

that 80 per cent of those who return to an area from which they have been evacuated, or a burning building, without permission (ie before being told it is safe to do so), are looking for pets that they had to leave behind.

I can't now find again the web sites on which I read about this, a year or so ago. But anyone who has not had time - or means - to arrange for their animals to go to a pet shelter is not going to abandon them just because they are told to. I know I wouldn't.

[tblue37]

63. I know I wouldn't either.

[mirandapriestly]

5. I'm trying not cry, that is so sweet

My heart goes out to the people of new Orleans, but the animals are so helpless and something about their plight affects me strongly. I am so glad there are people working to rescue them too. A citizenry who takes care of their animals is truly civilized.

[livvy]

8. Nice post.

I would never leave my four "children". When I agreed to bring them into my home, I made the decision to provide and care for them until their time here was over. I could never violate the trust they have in me. They are my responsibility. I couldn't abandon them anymore than I could abandon the real children under my care each day at work. I know that most people who don't have pets, and even many that do, would never understand, but it's the way I feel, and I know many others that feel the same.
Now that there are some rescue groups in NO, it makes no sense that they won't let these people bring their buddies out with them. I can understand them not being allowed to stay in some of the shelters, but the rescue organizations could take care of the pets, and the people could reconnect with them when they were back on their feet.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. You've got to be kidding me

take care of the pets on top of going into that muck every day? You've got to be kidding me, seriously kidding me

[livvy]

20. The day I could get in a boat and...

"sail" away leaving my four dogs watching would be a cold day in hell. I'm just not capable of doing that. I understand where you are coming from, and I agree...people first. I'm not suggesting that pets be rescued before people.

[Bluebear]

21. "As they pulled away..."

"As they pulled away they all watched their trusting, confused and terrified canine family member alone on the roof...."

No way. And I am no "outlaw holdout" as they are trying to paint the remaining citizenry of Orleans parish.

[livvy]

27. I'm with you.

I could not stand to have that visual with me the rest of my life. One of my dogs died in my arms. It was very sudden and unexpected. I can still "see" that event as clearly as the moment it happened, and it is still painful even though this was over 5 years ago. It took me a long time to stop beating myself up over her death, even though I knew it was something out of my control.
I'm fortunate. I have the means to make arrangements (given enough warning)to arrange for safe shelter in the event of an emergency. Many of these people are not so fortunate.
I do know though, if events made it impossible to get out with my dogs, or to arrange for safe placement for them, I'd just hunker down with them, and do the best I could. With four bouviers, it would certainly be a challenge, but then having four bouviers can be a challenge on any given day at times! :)

[truedelphi]

33. Until 14 dqays ago, my compassion was always BEAMED on Iraqis

Suffering in the hellhole that we had made of their once beautiful country.

Now I watch in horror as we Iraq-ify a territory inside our own country- and sadly, it is the very territory that existed
to entertain and delight us. Orleans was a muse and a Big Sassy
Vamp of a town that tempted us with the best food and the most wonderful music.

And now we force these people, who have given this country so much, (and after all they have endured,) to leave their pets behind?

I find it very hard to sleep at night.

[friesianrider]

41. Why?

You think the United States isn't capable of rescuing people AND their pets? It IS possible to walk and chew gum at the same time. It IS possible to care for BOTH.

Seriously...what's with your 'tude on this thread? Far as I can tell, you've had *nothing* constructive whatsoever to add to the discussion other than attacking others for the way they feel about their pets.

[Hun Joro]

58. If that is how you feel, you don't truly care about the people

because there are MANY who would never betray their best friends by abandoning them to death.

[HuskerDU]

60. I agree with your post livvy.

I wouldn't be able to look at myself in the mirror if I was safe and my lil critters were not.

[Auntie Bush]

61. "What's hidden behind the bushes?"

Condi with a bottle of Vodka.

[livvy]

71. There is so much hidden behind the Bush family....

we will probably never know the extent of it. I'm not even sure I want to know. My head is pretty full of enraged knowledge with what I know now. Sometimes it feels like it might explode! :nuke:

Condi with a bottle of vodka....:rofl:

[berni_mccoy]

11. Thanks Bluebear

:cry:

[Straight Shooter]

16. My dogs have always been my best friends, since I was a little kid.

Could I leave my dog behind? No, I could not. But then again, it's only the two of us. If a child were involved, the child would come with me. If there were another adult, that person is free to make their choice.

I will never abandon any creature that has been given to me by the Universe to protect. I really don't care if I die with it; at least it will not die alone. That memory would be too a heavy burden, and there are some burdens I cannot carry.

Then again, that's just me. We all know, deep inside, what we can and cannot live with.

[Bluebear]

17. That is the point. To the folks who say "people come first"...

OK, but why does there have to be a choice? Surely a week has gone by already, why are there people shooting animals? Is there no rowboat that can hold people AND a dog or two?

If you had money you went to the Marriott, where "pets are family". If you are destitute, you either went to the Red Cross shelter where "no dogs are allowed" or you rode out the storm at home with your friends. :cry:

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. And if you are a rescue worker and have to make the choice

sorry but people come first. Sorry, that is the reality

In far smaller incidents (cedar fire) you can evac both, we have the resources, but not here .

By the way, have you ever dealt with a hungry, biting, scared dawg in a rescue situation? They are not that nice, and what will yuo say when fluffy all so nice, bytes the rescue worker, taking him or her off the line?

[Bluebear]

19. But the choice didn't have to be made.

What harm would a crated animal at a shelter pose? "Corinna" aside, there are many examples of routine evacs in Florida where people have plenty of time to leave but they are not given the option to save the pet. What would be the harm of designating a classroom or two at schools set up as shelters for animals?

[mopaul]

22. i'm sure they're saving as many animals as they can

but there is a lot of horror and suffering going on, human and animal. i understand some of the shootings were done in the name of preventing the spread of disease. also, the animals will drink the poison water and die slowly, another sad but true fact in all this horror.

it's hard to imagine the horror of being there and seeing it. george bush should be FORCED to look at the photos.

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. When you have the resources you do that

cedar fire, local animal control did evac and keep the animals

When you don't have the resources you apply the few you have to saving human lives... I am sorry but this choice is part of triage... how many resources do I have and who can I save?

yes may be cruel to you... but animals are truly NOT in the upper priority list... never have and never will and this is not an American thing, this is the rule of thumb world wide. In general we can do more for animals than most countries MOST OF THE TIME, but this is a CAT 4 disaster... and we don't have enough to take care of people and you want me to take care of fluffy?

Oh and by the way this also means in a massive disaster where I live, I will have to make the choice, where to place my kids? I am not looking forwards to it, but I do understand it... and yes that will break my heart

[Bluebear]

26. I didn't ask you to take care of Fluffy.

I am asking that a schoolroom or two at the shelters be set aside for crated animals. Nothing more.

[friesianrider]

43. "animals are truly NOT in the upper priority list"

Oh, I'd love for you to have told that to my elderly next door neighbor who is 89 years old and her whole fucking LIFE is her 12-year-old Poodle.

How insensitive can you be? The truth is animals are not on YOUR priority list, which is fine. But to many people, their animals ARE, and very much so. Why can't you just accept that fact that some people are more committed to their pets than you would be or are?

[friesianrider]

38. If I were a rescue person and came to a dog first,

I would take the dog. If I came to a person first, I would take the person.

It is so stupid that no one on here can post a goddamn thing about the pets without certain people chiming in with the "PEOPLE FIRST!! PEOPLE FIRST!! PEOPLE FIRST!!!" crap.

I shudder to think that some people in this bunch have pets. I know damn sure your dog would risk his life to save yours...it's a shame some wouldn't return that to their pets.

[Maru Kitteh]

24. I wouldn't leave any of my family behind - human or not

It's that simple really

[mopaul]

25. yes, i honor your right to stay behind and die with your pets

i say make your own choices, and i mine.

[LisaL]

28. You might not care about animals-but do you freaking

realize that at least some people won't leave the animals behind?
So, if you care about people so much, do you not understand that saving these pets will save their owners as well? Or do you think the owners deserve to die because they wouldn't leave the pets behind?

[mopaul]

29. no one deserves to be left behind man nor beast

i hope i never have to make such a heartbreaking decision, but i know if given the choice, i'd leave the pets. if i could take them i would, but stay behind when i need meds and food and water to survive? no.

jeez, i don't hate pets already.

[lukasahero]

45. And I honor you for that.

Just thought since you're going to get ripped to shreds by others (yeah, maybe compassion really isnt' their strong point), I'd let you know you are not alone and some of us respect your ideals.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

30. Thank you Bluebear for this and for your very good heart. :)

Whenever I think of an evacuation plan for here (I live 10 mins from a nuke plant) I have my pussycat Amy always in mind.

[neweurope]

34. Made me cry, Bluebear. Shit, I'm howling. N/t

----------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[Bethany Rockafella]

35. Why do some people let their pets lick them in the face like that?

I know that's how they show affection but geeze.

[neweurope]

37. My dachshund "niece" - dog of my friend - always licks me all over my

face. So what? I go to the bathroom and wash my face. It's not as if it were permanent. She loves me, that's what's important. Not a bit of spit.

--------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[Bethany Rockafella]

49. Okay, I was just asking.

[Bluebear]

40. A dog naturally licks the mouth of the leader of the pack.

Most dog owners find no problem with it. :)

[LisaL]

46. Clearly, you haven't got a dog.

[Bethany Rockafella]

50. No, I don't.

I did when I was a kid though.

[tblue37]

68. While it is true that dogs are sometimes copraphagic

(if given the opportunity), it is also true (if somewhat counterintuitive) that a dog's mouth has fewer germs than a human's mouth.

[lukasahero]

42. How the fuck can anyone look at this and think, "yeah, let's kill 'em"?

Thank you for this. It's beautiful.

[Mikimouse]

48. Where I go, the cats go, or nobody goes...n/t

[Coventina]

51. I just had a "lightbulb moment" about the posters that disrupt these

threads.

You know the ones..."people come first". "Fluffy has to wait" ad nauseum.

I finally figured it out. THEY'RE INSECURE. Somehow, they feel unworthy, and have to constantly INSIST that HUMANS (read: they themselves) COME FIRST. The insecurity causes them to not have enough compassion for creatures more helpless than themselves. Because deep down inside, they feel like THEY are the helpless ones.

Well, quit telling ME that I have to limit MY compassion because of YOUR insecurity problem. Don't hang your shit on me.

[Vektor]

52. Agreed. All our loved ones are important.

I'd never leave my pets. They are family.

[nashville_brook]

53. stand by me

sometimes the only ones who stand by us stand on four legs.

[FreedomAngel82]

55. Awww

The poor babies. :cry: I love that third picture. The little dog is so small!

[FreedomAngel82]

56. I also love the fourth photo

The little dog is looking at the camera and you can see in his/her eyes that they're so thankful to be safe with their owner. :) The last one is so sweet and sad. They stayed together and stuck it out and protected each other. It's like the dog is saying "I got your back". I just want to cry. :cry:

[complain jane]

57. I couldn't leave my pet and I don't give a crap what anybody thinks.

[Usrename]

59. Wonderful post. Makes you kinda love these people, and pets.

[donco6]

62. This just kills me.

Love the poem - I just cry when I think of my pet in that predicament. The water is wide, indeed.

[Catchawave]

64. Petfinders Animal Rescue Data Base/Katrina

Lots of animal welfare organization involved, including information on fostering these lost babies.

http://www.petfinder.com/disaster/

Very nice tribute to the pets and the people who love them. I couldn't leave mine behind either !

[Tatiana]

65. Sad.

I watched the Dateline report on Katrina yesterday and was suprised to learn that Animal Rescue teams were there on the ground, but not allowed in to do the job they were trained to do.