Should Nagin screw NO and continue to antagonize * to make DUers. . .

[wndycty]

. . .happy? Or should he do what is necessary to help rebuild his city?

I'm so pissed off right now by the DUers who are pouncing all over Nagin because he has called a truce in his battle with *. Folks if you look at the Bush's approval ratings Nagin has him by the short and curlies and the minute * pisses him off again he can go back to criticizing him. A major reason * is in so much damn trouble is because Nagin called him out! But more important we just had the worst human tragedy in American history and MANY OF YOU WANT THIS TO BE ABOUT POLITICS 24/7!

Nagin's first responsibility is to the people of NO, not DU or the Democratic agenda! Much is being made about him being a former Republican but at some point this has to be about more than politics for Nagin. Let others play god damned politics (I guess that is what we are for) let Nagin do what he needs to do help his people and his city.

Cut the man some damn slack! And grow up!

[meegbear]

1. Links? Links? Links?

[wndycty]

4. Here you go

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4742525

[wndycty]

6. Here is another. . .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4735658

Disgusting, the man moves his family to TX so they can live, go to school, et al, while he returns to NO to look after his city and some DUers just sit back and pounce all over him.

[wndycty]

110. I can now add this one as well

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4744495

[leveymg]

2. So, how is DU preventing Nagin from doing his job?

Seems to me, that role of obstruction of state and local authorities is being played by the WH/FEMA.

Are you asking us to suspend our critical faculties for the duration of the disaster? When does that end, Nov. 5, 2008?

Don't lecture us, and don't tell us to shut up.

[wndycty]

3. DUers want him to continue his stand off with *

He is being criticized for being photographed with *. If people have the right to criticize Nagin for doing what he feels he needs to do, I have the right to lecture.

[Bluebear]

5. Nagin might be reading DU right now & it will throw him off!

;)

[wndycty]

7. Oh please. . .

. . .that is not what I am saying and you know it. I just think its silly for DUers to get so upset with Nagin that he meeting with *.

[Bluebear]

12. Just teasin' windy

I understand your point completely.

[Imagevision]

94. Nagin said his and right up to the President's record should be evaluated

regarding who did what and when regarding Katrina response...!


http://downingstreetmemo.com/

[DoYouEverWonder]

15. There have been 100s of Nagin and Blanco bashing threads

and it is the same people over and over, making the same Rove talking point complaints. It's getting old.

We don't have time to waste arguing the same crap over and over. That is exactly what Rove wants us to do. People needs to read down the threads and not keep posting the same topic over and over. It's a major waste of time trying to respond to all the misinformation that is spread in them. I'd much rather spend my time bashing Bush, thank you very much.

So please folks,let's not play into their hands. We must support each other and the people in Louisiana who have been through more then any of us can even start to imagine. Please.

Peace be with you all.

DYEW

[H2O Man]

26. That isn't what was said.

In fact, it's not even close. Rather, people should use their "critical faculties for the duration of the disaster." The OP was directed at the posts that show a total lack of insight, and that substitute unfocused emotional reactions for reasoned thinking.

[wndycty]

28. Thanks H2O

:kick:

[H2O Man]

34. Thank you

for this thread.

[FlaGranny]

78. There's a lot of that on DU -

unfocused emotional reactions, that is. It does get disgusting at times, but I don't know how you can keep people from making asses of themselves.

[ElectroPrincess]

119. Glad you admit to being "one of us"

We are all a**es at one time or another. I don't even begin to judge a HUGE message board as having this or that opinion. Why? Because to do so would be glaringly inaccurate. :hi:

[FlaGranny]

126. The only fusses I've ever gotten into

on this board are because of people purposefully misinterpreting something I've said. There's a lot of that. Misinterpret and accuse. I've been guilty of it in the past, but not for a long time now. I've just learned to type up a reactive, emotional response, and then hit "delete" before I post it and make an ass of myself.

:hide:

Edit: It seems to be a black and white frame of mind, when most things are actually a shade of gray.

[ElectroPrincess]

128. We're the same ... we all sin ... hopefully we also all forgive :-) /eom

[OctOct1]

8. I agree, but hope that Nagin won't get

burned.
On MTP you can hear Nagin thinks that NO will be rebuilt and become prosperous for all the NO people.
He said he will be in charge of the re-build.
He said NO people will/should do the re-build.
He is being kind to the WH because they seemed to have promised him great things.
But will he get burned????
being nice to Bush is the cost, but will the WH be kind in return??
OR will they get what they want from Nagin and then tell him to go screw???
By the time Nagin screams that the WH screwed him, NO will be a distant thought.
But you are right Nagin has no choice right now. He has to play nice with WH

[goclark]

107. I agree completely

As an African American, I really want him to be a shining star because that is so much needed for our people and the world of Compassionate PEOIPLE.

I am praying that he can hold his own and not let ROVE turn him into someone that he use to be.

I love this man!

[OctOct1]

125. Thanks

We agree and I love Clark too.
Great minds think alike.

[Bridget Burke]

9. He made his real opinion quite clear.

When he was pleading for help & the Feds were nowhere to be seen.

Now, I can understand that he's got to play along with the idiot.

Perhaps he'll write a book someday?

[wndycty]

11. I sort of knew this would happen. . .

. . .if he does not criticize * 24/7 he would get dumped upon.

[Skwmom]

10. Sorry but I think Nagin's first concern is Nagin. You're right his first

responsibility was to the people of NO and I think the man failed miserably. Furthermore, if you go back and listen to Nagin's rant he really didn't call Bush out - he said the Gov and Bush needed to get together and he didn't know whose fault it was (and from then on he proceeded to blame the gov).


On edit: Playing politics is defending an idiot just because they have a D in front of their name.

[wndycty]

14. Well go ahead. . .beat the shit out him. . .

. . .since he is not meeting your standards of leadership beat the shit out of him.

[Skwmom]

16. Would you say the same thing to Republicans criticizing Bush for

his lack of leadership?

[wndycty]

24. Republicans are not my concern. . .

. . .Democrats are and furthermore we advance the Democratic agenda more if we are smart and allow our leaders to do what is necessary to SERVE their LOCAL constituents!

[Skwmom]

27. Supporting a mayor who did a lousy job because he has a D in front of

his name (especially when he only became a Democrat to get elected), is PLAYING POLITICS and makes the Democrats look no better than the Republicans who blindly defend Bush because he has a R in front of his name.

[wndycty]

31. Without using Rove's talking points. . .

. . .explain how evauating 80% of his population and getting a significant amount of the remaining population to safety to await relief from the state/feds is doing a lousy job.

[Skwmom]

39. How many of that 80% were able to get out of town on their on steam?

How many of the people unable to self-evacuate from New Orleans because they were too poor or to sick were evacuated?

I don't need to use Rove talking points. I have a brain and can think on my own.

On edit: When will the Democrats and Republicans EVER realize that blindly supporting someone because they have a D or R in front of their name is destroying this country?

[wndycty]

42. Oh so the mayor had nothing to do with that 80%?

Oh please!

[Skwmom]

46. Again - how many of the 80% were able to self-evacuate from N.O.?

Do you know the guy just put a D in front of his name to get elected? Does that make my question more valid or acceptable?

[wndycty]

48. He did? Were you in the meeting where it was determined. . .

. . .that he put the D in front of his name just to get elected. Do you have evidence of that?

Also the 80% who got out on their own took part in evacuation plan he led.

[Skwmom]

55. The guy was a Republican. He wants to get elected Mayor in a

Democratic stronghold. He becomes a Democrat and runs for mayor (of course I'm sure it had nothing to do with his wanting to get elected).

[wndycty]

58. I guess you feel the same way about Wes Clark?

You do not know why the hell he became a Democrat and you know it. You know what happens when you ASS U ME! LOL

And to think I'm getting criticized for telling people to grow up? I think it was a rather appropriate comment. LOL

[Skwmom]

64. The same set of facts do not apply to Clark.

Clark was neither a Republican or a Democrat. He voted for both parties.

I've always found that when a person resorts to personal attacks, it's a sure sign that I'm winning the argument.

[wndycty]

68. Who am I attacking?

Not Wes Clark, whose campaign I fully supported (I helped draft him). I'm just pointing out that Wes Clark took the same criticism and he is now one of the best Democrats we have. I think Nagin is the one withstanding personal attacks.

[tx_dem41]

73. Sad...very sad.

You have the talking points down well. Just the wrong ones.

I'm from New Orleans...its the most amazing thing I've ever witnessed to see 80% of the people get out of that city on 3 routes in about an 18 hour period. The evacuation plan and past history showed that it could never be more than 60%. BTW, the truly Democratic mayor Marc Morial did a miserable job back in 1998 at evacuating the city.

[Skwmom]

74. Sorry, I find nothing amazing or commendable about the number

of poor and elderly who were left behind to fend for themselves. Furthermore, I could care less whether Nagin is a Democrat, Republican or Independent. I was trying to point out to those rushing to Nagin's defense because of the D in front of his name that maybe they should take a second look at whether that's really a D or a d(R).

Again, how many of the 80% were able to self-evacuate? What's the 80% - a talking point put out by the mayor?

[tx_dem41]

76. No...its a talking point put out by the people that live there.

I do agree that if someone is ONLY defending him because of the "D", then that's just as wrong as attacking someone ONLY because of the "R".

[wndycty]

79. You push the Republican talking point, I push the Democratic

Mayors talking points, which are backed up with fact. I guess the enemy of your enemy (Nagin) is your friend (Rove).

[Roland99]

112. Your anger is misdirected.You should be angry at the decades of corruption

that has plagued the city.

Nagin's been mayor for, what, 2 1/2 years and he's supposed to magically cure all of its ills?

[Skwmom]

59. Well that evacuation plan seemed to have a BIG HOLE in it. n/m

[marshall]

85. Compared to other cities' evacuations?

In the coming days we will probably see comparisons to other areas that have evacuation plans--the Florida keys, Galveston, Savannah, etc. I would like to see what percentage of people evacuated from those areas.

[Qibing Zero]

90. Wait, wait

Which officials ARE you going to stand up for then? Nagin was at least critical at the RIGHT time, and let it be known he wasn't going to bullshit from the start. His actions may be questionable, but they're far better than most of congress, which didn't have it's footing at all. As far as I know, Kucinich and the Black Caucus were the few to actually say something right away.

I say give the man the benefit of the doubt. He's a mayor for goodness sake - he doesn't have massive amounts of resources at his beck and call like, say, the president does.

[AnnInLa]

13. I agree....thanks!

[tx_dem41]

17. The way some people are placing politics over the people of NOLA...

it makes me think they couldn't care less about the people....just like they think * doesn't care.

[wndycty]

19. Exactly. . .

. . .* is in trouble, but so are the people of the entire Gulf coast. He has been SHAMED into do something, but it seems like some DUers would rather watch continue to screw up just so we can continue to get the political upper hand. FOLKS we have the upper hand, but what is important and this point is to get all of the people of the region help in rebuilding their lives and unfortunately * is going to play a major role in that.

You will notice that I AM NOT SAYING SUPPORT *, I'm just saying allow those who need to do business with him (Nagin) do f'ing business with him.

[zanne]

18. You almost had me, until you said "grow up"

We've been through five years of being unrepresented by our Democratic officials. Five years of Bush and his group getting away with murder because Dems wouldn't speak up. Five years of Bush's critics capitulating and actually apologizing for their criticism of him. And you want us to "grow up"? Who the hell do you think you are?

[JuniperLea]

21. I really hate that phrase... grow up

Everyone has the right to their own feelings.

[wndycty]

25. And I have the right to . . .

. . .to tell people to grow up, right? Me telling some DUers to "grow up" does not mean they have to, right? LOL

[zanne]

29. From high upon your lofty perch....

Of course, you can say whatever you want. Please don't let my criticism of any self-righteousness on your part stop you from pointing out what immature morons we all are.

[wndycty]

32. Thanks I won't. . .

. . .however you did miss a point, this is not directed at "all" DUers just the immature ones. . .LOL Hence the "grow up!"

[JuniperLea]

36. My point exactly...

but you were far more eloquent. Good job!

[JuniperLea]

30. You missed the point - telling someone to grow up is insulting

and invalidates their feelings. Additionally, it takes the wind out of your sails (makes your point less believable) and makes you appear self righteous.

Yes, you have the right to say it, but do you really want to make yourself appear closed minded?

[wndycty]

35. I'm self righteous and close minded?

And those who bash Nagin for having his picture taken with * aren't? Surely you jest!

[JuniperLea]

38. It's their opinion and they have a right to it

and furthermore, I'm not the only one who called you on the self-righteous bit... soooooo

[wndycty]

45. So their opinion counts and mine doesn't. . .

. . .hypocritical isn't it? hmmmmm

[JuniperLea]

49. You didn't voice an opinion

You insulted... two different things. If your opinion is that they need to grow up, fine. But you got what you asked for in voicing it.

Telling someone to grow up is insulting their opinion. There are other ways to get your opinion heard. I thought you did very well until you insulted the others. That's all I'm saying.

[H2O Man]

40. If anyone seriously

takes the stance that their belief on this issue hinges on your use of the phrase "grow up," I would submit their beliefs were not well-rooted to begin with.

[JuniperLea]

61. I see no one hanging that on their beliefs

All I'm seeing is people saying the first part of that comment being an opinion and the "grow up" statement being an insult that detracted... never mind... said it too many times already.

I guess tempers are worn thin right now. Sorry if I offended anyone. I just can't stand it when one adult voicing an opinion tells another adult who is voicing an opinion to "grow up". It is an insult that says "your feelings won't be valid until you 'grow up' and agree with me".

[wndycty]

22. I think I am a pragmatic, rational flaming liberal who feels that . . .

. . .in the end its more important that the people of the region get help. * is EXTREMELY vulnerable, however if Nagin needs to work with him, let him! There are tons of others who can play politics at this point, but no one should to the extent of biting our nose off to spite our face.

[JuniperLea]

20. The beauty of being a Democrat

is free thinking.

Personally, I didn't find Nagin's recent comments all that strange. I commend him for not putting his hatred of * above his duty to the people of his city. He didn't fold at all. He was being diplomatic. He hasn't really cut * any slack.

I'm still pissed about DUers bashing looters.

[ElectroPrincess]

23. WTF, over?

:wtf:

[sam sarrha]

43. got to face the facts.. it is over.. it got spun into thin air.. its gone

I hope the 10's of thousands of dead haunt Bu$h till he dies, then i hope they drag him down to burn for ever in Hell

[Skwmom]

33. Nobody is asking Nagin to be rude to Bush. However, not being rude

and becoming part of the blame the governor/not Bush game is far more than not being rude and will hurt the Democratic Party.

[wndycty]

41. Wait a minute. . .

Didn't you just write:

"Supporting a mayor who did a lousy job because he has a D in front ofhis name (especially when he only became a Democrat to get elected), is PLAYING POLITICS and makes the Democrats look no better than the Republicans who blindly defend Bush because he has a R in front of his name."

But you have a problem when he takes issue with the lack of response from the LA's National Guard? Are you for real? LOL Talk about hypocrisy.

I don't want to see a Blanco/Nagin battle, however this point contradicts a previous post of yours.

[Skwmom]

50. No, I don't have a problem with his calling the Gov on things

she failed to do. However, I do have a problem with his calling a Democratic Governor on her shortcomings while giving Bush a free pass. Do you see the difference?

[wndycty]

52. How is Bush getting a free pass. . .

. . .I think this should be interesting.

[JuniperLea]

44. How, exactly, did he do that?

I thought I'd seen all that footage ad nauseum... I seemed to have missed any blaming of the governor.

[Skwmom]

53. I'd suggest you watch Nagin's various interviews.

As soon as he gave his rant but stated that he didn't know who was to blame - the Gov or Bush - my money was on him trying to get climb aboard the "idiot gravy train."

[JuniperLea]

57. That's what I'm saying

I watched his interviews all day yesterday, sometimes more than once. And I read the transcripts as well. What I'm saying is that I never once heard him blame the governor like you and others are saying he did.

[wndycty]

60. Now you see why. . .

. . .I don't feel so bad for telling some DUers to "grow up" some lack any kind of rational thought. . .

[JuniperLea]

66. Sorry, wndycty

I have agreed with most of what you have said here. I just find the "grow up" thing distasteful. Maybe it's a personal thing, although others here have agreed with me.

My ex-husband used to tell me to grow up and get off my high horse when I didn't agree with him or when I felt insulted by his words or behaviors. He would tell me to grow up and not be so sensitive to his insults, basically.

[wndycty]

69. I understand what you are saying to a point, however. . .

. . .I just feel the criticism of Nagin is worth telling people to grow up. I wise man once said "Sometimes you have to call a motherfucker, a motherfucker." This is one of those times but instead of calling someone a motherfucker I prefer to tell them to grow up.

[JuniperLea]

72. I would have preferred

motherfucker:)

[wndycty]

87. LOL

:kick:

[crispini]

65. Did you watch MTP?

He pretty clearly said he 'wasn't happy' with Blanco's response. he didn't out and out say it but he implied a lot.

[JuniperLea]

67. Yes, I did

He also said he felt he could have done more. He felt everyone could have done more. I didn't hear him "out and out" say it, that's what people are saying here though.

[crispini]

105. Yeah, but if you read between the lines....

IMO he was kind of indirectly slamming her. You're right, he implied a lot, but he was using that kind of weasel language that people do when they're all "well, I don't want to say anything bad about this person BUT..."

[tx_dem41]

108. Crispin....there are a lot of good Louisiana Democrats...

that are not exactly happy with the state's efforts the past two weeks. It shouldn't detract from the Fed's culpability. Ultimately, the state and the Fed has to learn from these mistakes and make sure that next time they do not occur. The only way that will happen is for people to criticize.

[crispini]

113. Oh, I agree.

I was pretty much restricting myself to the question of what was or was not seen on MTP. There's plenty of accountability to go around. However, I keep coming back to the whole paradigm of "the buck stops here." With George, the buck never, ever stops there, does it? Shame. He's like a child. Who broke the vase? "Not me, mommy!" :eyes:

[JuniperLea]

114. Reading between the lines is dangerous

and subjective. What I read between the lines is that he wanted to help his people and was taking care not to offend. I heard nothing that caused me to think he was backing down, not at all. In fact, I got the impression he was saving his outrage for future use.

[crispini]

115. Oh, I don't know about backing down.

And you're right, it's all shades of gray. Here are the transcripts of the pieces, though, that are making me think what I am thinking. Look at the bolded part (emphasis mine) and tell me if you see what I see:

MR. RUSSERT: How would you grade the president's performance thus far, A through F?

MAYOR NAGIN: How would I rate it?

MR. RUSSERT: Yes.

MAYOR NAGIN: Oh, I don't want to get into that, Tim. I mean, I will tell you this: I think the president, for some reason, probably did not understand the full magnitude of this catastrophe on the front end. I think he was probably getting advice from some of his key advisers or some low-level folk that had been on the ground that this was serious, but not as serious as it ended up being. My interactions with the president is, anytime I talked with him and gave him what the real deal was and gave him the truth, he acted and he made things happen.

MR. RUSSERT: How about the governor?

MAYOR NAGIN: Well, you know, I don't know about that one. We fought and held that city together with only 200 state National Guard. That was it. We did not get a lot of other support for three or four days of pure hell on Earth. There were resources that were sitting in other parishes. I just don't know. I mean, and then when a group did come down to review what was happening in New Orleans, it was a big media event. It was followed with cameras and with AP reporters, a little helicopter flyover, and then they had a press conference and it was gone. So I don't have much else to say about that.

MR. RUSSERT: It sounds like you don't think the governor has done a very good job.

MAYOR NAGIN: I think there was an incredible breakdown of coordination, of resources, and decisions were made to move resources and to not move resources that just don't make sense to me. And then there was this incredible dance between the governor and the president about who had final authority, whether this was going to be federalized, who was going to be in charge at the end of the day, and I just don't appreciate that kind of stuff when people were dying in my city.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9240461/

Now, just restricting the conversation about Nagin to THIS interview, and NOT having any opinion about what he SHOULD be doing, but rather, what he IS doing in this interview:

it's my reading of this piece of the conversation that he IS virtually making excuses for the President's response ("probably did not understand the full magnitude of this catastrophe on the front end") and IS leaning on the Governor a little bit ("Well, you know, I don't know about that one.")

I wanna point out here that I am not expressing an opinion about what he SHOULD be doing but rather, to me, what it seems that he IS doing.

[JuniperLea]

118. Bit by bit

"MAYOR NAGIN: Oh, I don't want to get into that, Tim. I mean, I will tell you this: I think the president, for some reason, probably did not understand the full magnitude of this catastrophe on the front end. I think he was probably getting advice from some of his key advisers or some low-level folk that had been on the ground that this was serious, but not as serious as it ended up being. My interactions with the president is, anytime I talked with him and gave him what the real deal was and gave him the truth, he acted and he made things happen."

This part does seem butt-kissy, but by the same token, it could be construed as Nagin using what he has to get action from Bush and once he did get action he didn't want to keep bashing too much. Like I said, it seems his first priority is to his people and he will do what he has to do to get it done. "I don't want to get into that" tells me he is holding back, which, under the circumstances, is a wise thing to do, imho.


"I mean, and then when a group did come down to review what was happening in New Orleans, it was a big media event. It was followed with cameras and with AP reporters, a little helicopter flyover, and then they had a press conference and it was gone. So I don't have much else to say about that."

To my eye, this is a clear jab at the administration for setting up photo/press conference ops. "and it was gone", meaning, it was all for show... and again, "not much else to say about that". I would expect him to get back to his outrage once his people are taken care of, as it should be.

[crispini]

121. That second part is clearly in reference to the Governor.

It's in response to Russert's question about the Governor, not Bush. If it's a jab at anyone, it's a jab at Blanco.

[rman]

37. For Bush it IS about politics 24/7

"screwing NO to make DUers happy" - nice framing, dude...

[wndycty]

47. You are welcome. . .

:kick:

[zanne]

51. When you throw an insult...

Look; I don't know you. For all I know, you could be a twelve-year old boy; I have no way of knowing. I have no way of knowing if you are a self-righteous person or not--you could be a real peach for all I know. But what I see is what I read in your post, and if you throw out an insult to an entire group of posters, what do you expect to get in return? I read the beginning and middle of your post with interest. Then, the insult came and completely invalidated the rest of your post. Now, in attempting to defend your insult, you've entrenched yourself. Stop, take a breath, and think.

[wndycty]

54. Not 12, 37 year old political veteran who is not afraid to call people out

Others can vouch for my credentials. . .thank you very much.

:kick:

[zanne]

62. If you can't admit to making a mistake...

You can't learn from it.

[wndycty]

63. And my mistake was?

Calling people out for irrational criticism of Nagin?

[zanne]

75. Nevermind, wndycty

This is pointless.

[Armstead]

56. He can cooperate without adding to the GOP spin

Nagin isn't really a Democrat. he just plays one on television.

But regardless of that, Nagin is dong the same thing Clinton did. he took "We need to work together" beyond the necessary neutrality. Instead they defended the indefensible actions of Bush, and contributed to the spin that "no one saw this coming, and Bush was let down by his underlings, but once he took charge things started working."

Before you tell me to grow up, I'll point out that in the immediate aftermath of the hurricane, I posted a protest of those who instantly jumped on Bush and make it political.

But in the aftermath, the GOP has been spinning like a top to both deflect blame from Bush and his administration, and to make this into a failure of Democratoc state and local officials. They have also been spinning this to futrther the conservative agenda.

There's a big difference between "growing up" and becoming senile, which is what our side will be if we allow the GOP to set the terms without challenge, yet again.

[Skwmom]

71. BINGO. What Nagin is doing goes far beyond mere cooperation. n/t

[Armstead]

86. Beyond Nagin, it's a syndrome among Democratic leaders

Go along with something horrible to appear moderate. Echo the right-wing talking points to appear "reasonable."

Support Bush lost causes (like Iraq) to avoid seeming negative or unpatriotic.

Not all Democratic leaders do this. But too many of them can't seem to get it through their heads that there is no reward in being collaborators in the GOP spin.

[wndycty]

89. And what Bush "lost cost" is Nagin supporting?

:kick:

[Armstead]

93. Not a lost cause but the Bush mythology

Bush was let down by his underlings, but once he understood the dimensions of the crisis he swung into action and became the effective leader we all know and love.

Meanwhile the Democratic governor was the real obstacle.

Even if it makes sense to avoid partisan bickering, Democrats will once again be at a huge disadvantage if they overcompensate by echoing the GOP talking points.

[RepublicanElephant]

70. can dems afford to play nice...

...when repubs are killing us, literally?

[wndycty]

77. So is Nagin supposed to refuse a presidential visit. . .

. . .when the president is the one man who can push through the funds and resources necessary to rebuild New Orleans.

[Tatiana]

80. Honestly, it seems as though some wouldn't care if NO vanished off the

face of the earth, as long as the Mayor gave * the finger.

[wndycty]

81. Exactly. . .

. . .there are some (NOTICE I SAID SOME!!!!) who appear to root for anything that will make * look bad, even the destruction of human life and the furthering of human suffering.

[Tatiana]

84. Why is the vitriol all directed towards Nagin? And not Blanco or Landrieu?

(From the NYT)

At midafternoon on that Monday, a few hours after Katrina made landfall, state and federal leaders appeared together at a press conference in Baton Rouge in a display of solidarity.

Governor Blanco lavished her gratitude on Mr. Brown, the FEMA chief.

"Director Brown," she said, "I hope you will tell President Bush how much we appreciated - these are the times that really count - to know that our federal government will step in and give us the kind of assistance that we need." Senator Mary L. Landrieu pitched in: "We are indeed fortunate to have an able and experienced director of FEMA who has been with us on the ground for some time."

Mr. Brown replied in the same spirit: "What I've seen here today is a team that is very tight-knit, working closely together, being very professional doing it, and in my humble opinion, making the right calls."

[wndycty]

129. Because. . .

. . .well because, er uh, you know because.

[Tatiana]

135. Don't worry, I won't go there. n/t

[DS1]

82. DUers talk.

[UTUSN]

83. The Wingnut Criticism of Him Has Totally Zeroed-in His DEM Label

Dear wndycty, I am one who has made much of his Repuke-ism, his only having taken the Dem label from expediency. If he were a sincere convert, there would be no criticism from me. But the Dem LABEL is what the wingnuts have been using to exculpate Shrub with. As for his needing to make nice with Shrub FOR THE PURPOSE of getting NO fixed, my point/opinion here is that Shrub-love ain't that much of an effort for his core Repuke-ism. As for the actual help for NO, the Shrubbites are pretty much over a barrel--will HAVE to do almost as much as possible. The wingnut I sent the Repuke bio to said that the mayor just might be one of those people who can function in a job so long as no crisis comes up but is no good in a crisis--that's HIS speculation/exculpation.

But in all of this, my MAIN point is that the wingnuts have been using the Dem LABEL as a club on us to get Shrub off the hook. It's not that I'm pulling for the mayor to catfight Shrub.

[wndycty]

88. How do you know he is not a serious convert?

:kick:

[UTUSN]

91. Can't Really KNOW, But Here Are Some Quacks of the Duck

1- He only reluctantly supported KERRY.

2- He endorsed the Repuke-for-Gov.

3- His own platform in running for mayor was solely for economic growth, attracting business/jobs--a Repuke core value--, NOT including a vision of holistic caring for the people/infrastructure of the community--a Dem core value.


***********QUOTE**********

Before his election, Nagin was a member of the Republican Party and had little political experience; he was a vice president and general manager at Cox Communications, a cable communications company and subsidiary of Cox Enterprises. Nagin did give contributions periodically to candidates, namely President George W. Bush and former Republican U.S. Representative Billy Tauzin in 1999 and 2000, as well as to Democratic U.S. Senators John Breaux and J. Bennett Johnston earlier in the decade.

Days before filing for the New Orleans Mayoral race in February 2002, Nagin switched his party registration to the Democratic Party. Shortly before the primary election, an endorsement praising Nagin as a reformer by Gambit Magazine gave him crucial momentum that would carry through for the primary election and runoff. In the first round of the crowded mayoral election in February 2002, Nagin received first place with 29% of the vote, against such opponents as Police Chief Richard Pennington, State Senator Paulette Irons, City Councilman Troy Carter and others. In the runoff with Pennington in May 2002, Nagin won with 59% of the vote. His campaign was largely self-financed.

Shortly after taking office, Nagin launched an anti-corruption campaign within city government, which included crackdowns on the city's Taxicab Bureau and Utilities Department. Nagin also made a controversial endorsement of current Republican U.S. Representative Bobby Jindal in the 2003 Louisiana Gubernatorial Runoff over current Democratic Governor Kathleen Blanco, and only reluctantly endorsed U.S. Senator John Kerry in the 2004 Presidential race.

Nagin received a B.S. degree in accounting from Tuskegee University in 1978 and an M.B.A. degree from Tulane University in 1994. He and his wife, Seletha Smith Nagin, have three children: Jeremy, Jarin, and Tianna.

*************UNQUOTE**********

[wndycty]

92. Well the bigger question is policy. . .

. . .has he governed NO like a Democrat or a Republican? You do your research, surely you can tell me how how he has run the city of NO, right? You know what happens when you ASS U ME!

[UTUSN]

100. Doesn't Sound Like He Improved the Lot

of the people who got left behind at the Superdome.

[tx_dem41]

95. Do you know anything about New Orleans?

I find some of your highlights intriguing.

"Cox Communications"...ummm...yeah...so? Democrats can't be businessmen?

"Self-financed"....ummm..Democrats can't have a large amount of money?

"Reluctantly endorsed"...why should he endorse a candidate that acted like the state did not exist?

[Bridget Burke]

97. His biography tells me he wasn't very interested in politics.....

Before he decided to run for Mayor. He was not a particulary fervent Republican, but was busy running a business. And he actually made money--unlike Bush Jr, who ran a couple of businesses into the ground.

He wanted to be Mayor more than he wanted to be a Republican. And I won't forget the anger he showed while Bush left his city to suffer. If he has to "play nice" with the Bushies to get his city rebuilt, I can understand.

But some would rather blame ANY Democrat (if only recent one) than a Republican.

[tx_dem41]

98. We agree...I know that I want my hometown rebuilt....

I don't care who does it, as long as its done.

[UTUSN]

99. What Do My Intriguing Highlights Have to Do with

knowledge of New Orleans?

The thrust of my highlights is the TENDENCY towards Repuke traits, not to rule out, absolutely, that NOT A SINGLE DEM can work in business, or have the cash to run, etc. Why would a true Dem be reluctant about supporting a Dem who has been labelled as possibly the MOST LIBERAL member of the Senate?

What surprises ME in the two days I have been defending my line of argument is that my attack on Repuke-ism raises such rancor on a Dem discussion board.

[tx_dem41]

102. Because the MOST LIBERAL member of the Senate ...

(which by the way is a Republican talking point that you seem to have swallowed hook-line-and-sinker) didn't even attempt to campaign in the state. You know, you actually have to attempt to care about a city or a people, if you expect them to "non-reluctantly" vote for you.

[UTUSN]

106. He Didn't Campaign in My State

and I didn't connect that to CARING ABOUT ME. I was interested in his Dem policies, nation-and-world-wide. As for swallowing Repuke talking points, whether he is THE MOST LIB or whether he is VERY LIB or whether he is JUST A DEM---his record was exhaustively documented here at DU. I don't know who else you might suggest as being MORE of a Dem. But more significantly to me, is why a few of you here are defending a NEWLY labelled Dem over an undeniable Dem.

Alrighty, then, time for me to get on with other life tasks. I'll check in (much) later.

[tx_dem41]

111. I'm defending the only politician that has passionately defended ..

my hometown, and has tirelessly talked about its re-building. Why people seem to discount this or not care about it, perplexes me. I guess winning power and party labels are more important than the future viability of 1,000,000 people.

[UTUSN]

116. Since When Is He THE ONLY Politician

who has talked about rebuilding NO? Who has discounted it? My entire thrust, speaking for me, is that the people of NO, and people ANYWHERE in the country, would be better off trusting their future to Democratic party ideology and values. And my entire line of argument on this topic in the past two days has been to MAKE AN ISSUE of how the WINGNUTS have been scrambling to COVER for Shrub, to GET Shrub OFF THE HOOK, to EXCULPATE Shrub, to TAKE THE HEAT OFF Shrub--how many different ways can it be said?----PRECISELY BY bashing the Governor and the Mayor USING the Dem LABEL. Therefore, my response to the WINGNUT line has been to focus on the Mayor's slight hold on the Dem LABEL. I'm talking about ONE thing. You are mixing in OTHER things, and, I will say, lashing out emotionally, which might be understandable but not fair.

[tx_dem41]

117. Again, some of us care about rebuilding....

and some of us care about politics. That much is apparent.

[UTUSN]

120. One Doesn't Exclude the Other. Most of Us Care about Both n/t

[Bridget Burke]

124. How many times have you posted this?

I remember the yellow highlighting.

[UTUSN]

133. How Many Does It Take? & Others Have Posted It, Too

But, why do you ask? What's your point?

[progressivebydesign]

96. Oh brother. That's a "do you still beat your wife?" question.

Not worth an answer.

[mtnester]

101. I was hoping personal integrity and dignity would not also become a victim

of Hurricane Katrina, but apparently it has.

IMO, he has no reason to humble himself to get the aid his city needs to rebuild and take care of people. The WORLD is on his side..why would he picth his dignity and integrity out thw window for that?

If he gives up his dignity and integrity, how can anyone expect the citizens of New Orleans to keep theirs?

Just my opinion...he is in a difficult circumstance, and I have no idea myself what I would do in this circumstance.

[TahitiNut]

103. Golly! I feel heady and woozie with all that power!!

:crazy: :eyes: :crazy:

[Roy]

104. Sorry wndycty...

But Mr. Nagin may have just lost me too. His body language suggested he wasn't happy being there, but there he was standing behind Bush on CNN in the position usually reesrved for their token or hired 'black faces', while Bush is stuttering, stammering, spewing almost remembered talking points, and lying.

All while the administrations echo chamber is simultaneously spouting talking points blaming he and Gov. Blanco. If he is not at least smart enough to realize that he offered himself up to be used as a tool and scapegoat, maybe he doesn't deserve the benefit of doubt being reserved for him.
He could have easily come down with a sudden case of diarrhea or anything rather than actively participate in thes farce.

[Roland99]

109. Hear! Hear!

[cascadiance]

122. I think a key is that he DOESN'T allow eminent domain to be used...

to reward the rich developers and penalize that those living in rebuilt areas of New Orleans.

If he makes a public committment to make sure that developers rebuild housing so that those displaced from this disaster can afford to move back to the same areas they lived in, and not to have a huge "Disneyland" replace it, that would be a signal to the public that he's doing the right thing to help out the people of his city and not being "bought off" by this administration and its cronies.

[nadinbrzezinski]

123. there are days I wodner, many of his worst critics

woudl be doing the same to get the help their people needed, if not, then we would be on them for not doing it.

He is pulling an old style southern back run and bush is too stupid to even notice

[Greyhound]

127. So, if I understand your position, Nagin should adopt a policy

of appeasement? Well that has worked so well in the past. :banghead:

[wndycty]

130. Well you don't understand my position. . .

. . .who said anything about appeasement, its more like pragmatism.

[Greyhound]

132. The second that Nagin eases up, * & Co. will turn it around, score

PR points, and screw NO & Nagin again. You only have one shot in this game, and it is a game to these jackals. Nagin cannot let up and then come back later. That is one sure way to get labeled with "wishy washy", "flip flop", "indecisive", etc.
The longer he can keep the microscopic attention of the public, the more he will get for the people of NO.

[applegrove]

131. His job is to suck it all up and make sure some of those billions

end up in the hands of government who actually represent the people of NO.

[nonconformist]

134. So, slamming on Blanco helps rebuild NO... how again? nt

[brindis_desala]

136. And when pray tell has George Bush done anything

for the poor much less African Americans. The naivete of Democrats is the reason they get their noses rubbed in the gutter. Either you have principles and a spine or you don't. I agree there was nothing to be gained by being rude but the situation called for finesse and Nagin folded like a cheap suit when he was holding all the cards. He could have called out Bush obliquely (Nagin is not a dummy). Don't worry New Orleans will be rebuilt by Bush's cronies and gambling buddies but the folks that made it famous, IF they are allowed to return, thanks to Stump's repeal of the Davis-Bacon Act will be working for Halliburton and Bechtel for peanuts while the neocon vultures laugh all the way to the bank. Nice going Mr. Mayor, you played the good boy when you could have shamed them but that's what you're paid to do in America- make the fat cats feel noble.
Oh and btw as for "growing up", Congress allocates funds not the executive.