Corruption is Inherent in Any Ideology that is Not Reality Based

[norml]

And the More Non-Reality Based the Ideology is, the More Inherently Corrupt it Will Be.

Discuss

[enki23]

1. what does it mean for an "ideology" to be "corrupt?"

.

[norml]

4. Lying and Stealing

And No, it's not a question of "Everybody does it"

It's a matter of degree.

An above average level of corruption is something that needs attention drawn to it.

You're never going to get rid of corruption (lying and stealing) entirely.

The more non-reality based an ideology is, the less reality there is in the attention drawn to it, and the more cover and opportunity it provides for corruption.

[0rganism]

6. So is an ideology of corruption pure or corrupt?

E.g., organized crime, the mafia. The more corrupt it is, the more pure it is, no?

Is kleptocracy the most reality-based, hence purest, of all ideologies?

[norml]

7. Since both the Mafia and the kleptocracy must practice deception

in order to sell themselves and cover for their thievery, they are corrupt.

If however they openly say they are liars and thieves and let everyone see their game, then they are pure.

[tocqueville]

2. what ideology is reality based ?

[Armstead]

3. Cynicism

...Okay, that's not really an ideology, but it's reality-based.

[norml]

5. Ooh! Good answer!

This is what makes philosophy fun.

[tocqueville]

10. I thought of political ideologies first...

if you think of epistemological ideologies, the most interesting is empiricism regarding the reality based...


cynicism is a form of nihilism and fatalistic. If everybody became a cynic, society would cease to evolve. The fact that the lack of faith in humankind could lead to its disappearing, sounds corrupt to me.

[Armstead]

14. It's all a matter of balance

My flippant answer above aside, I think being reality-based is ultimately a matter of balance. That includes balancing hope/optimism with cynicism/realism.

That also applies to ideologies. Capitalism and libertarianism are great in an ideal, theoretical sense. So is socialism and collectivism.

However, both are also undermined by darker realities of the human condition and social forces, especially the tendency to seek power and wealth for their own sake.

Therefore, any ideology needs its opposite in order to function as well as possible in the real world. A healthy dose of socialism is necessary to restrain the darker side of capitalism and libertarianism, and vice versa.

Because of this, in an ellightened society, there is never a static state. They are always struggling in a dynamic process.

[tocqueville]

16. mmm dialetical materialism ?

[Armstead]

18. Kinda sorta

Or cause and effect and then reaction against the effect becoming a new cause...etc.

In poilitical/economic terms, the excesses and foul ups of liberalism resulted in a conservative backlash which has subsequently led to conservative excesses and foul ups which will eventually lead to a liberal backlash....etc.

[norml]

9. The ones that are concerned with genuine feedback.

The ones that are backed up by the facts, not scared of them and not always needing to sell themselves or cover for their failures with lies.

[Cleita]

8. And who said that besides you?

Your premise is flawed. But you know that don't you?

[norml]

17. I thought it up for myself while driving around listening to

the right wing radio, and no I don't know that my premise is flawed.

[Maple]

11. Corruption is a given

in any human endeavor.

[Renew Deal]

13. How do you figure?

Am I corrupt by posting to DU? Is it corrupt to go food shopping? Is it corrupt to have children?

A generalization like that can't hold up.

[norml]

15. DEGREES! There are differences in degrees. Everything is not the same.

See post #4.

[Renew Deal]

12. It depends on who controls reality.

All ideologies are corrupt and all ideologies are not corrupt. It really depends on who's ideology it is. Ideology by definition is not corrupt to those who believe it.

Is capitalism corrupt? Not ideologically. People are meant to make as much as they can without restriction. Right?

Is socialism corrupt? Not ideologically. Socialists consider wealth redistribution and land use as natural and not corrupt in their reality.

Is the Democratic agenda corrupt? It surely isn't pure. It is reality based if your reality is the Democratic Agenda.

Is the Republican agenda corrupt? They're ideologically impure with little basis in reality. Is the fantasy that is conservatism inherently corrupt? Not to conservatives.