Didn't Ulysses Grant leave office in shame due to

[CatWoman]

corruption, cronyism and nepotism?

[SteppingRazor]

1. Yeah, but he stil served his whole term...

and in U.S. Grant's defense, he just spent his whole term in office drinking whiskey and smoking cigars, while everybody else sunk into corruption and cronyism.

Sort of like Bush, only replace "drinking whiskey" and "smoking cigars" with "choking on pretzels" and "falling off bikes."

[bklyncowgirl]

2. Grant served out his term. Bush will too, sadly.

Grant was taken advantage of by his friends who were a bunch of crooks. He personally died poor. Somehow I doubt Shrub is going to end up destitute. He'll spend the rest of his misreble life being protected by taxpayer paid Secret Service from the people he harmed.

Also, unlike Bush, Grant knew how to run a war.

[CatWoman]

3. good point, BCG

Also, unlike Bush, Grant knew how to run a war.

[Zomby Woof]

9. Partially true

His memoirs were completed just before his death, and although poor when he died, the sales of the memoirs were so huge, it gave his widow and family financial security for years.

[tabasco]

14. Grant was taken advantage of by robber barons.

Of course, Grant can be condemned for not being more savvy, but it seems Grant was not personally corrupt or involved in any of the graft.

Grant remained pretty popular despite the scandals. He did not have much money as a former President and stayed alive out of sheer willpower to finish his memoirs, which would create an inheritance for his family. On the day Grant finished his memoirs, he died.

The so-called "Powell Doctrine" is a bullshit hijacking, as known by all military historians. The US military doctrine of overwhelming force has been known as Grantian military strategy since the Civil War. Powell never came up with any new doctrines, but the republicans started using the incoerrect term "Powell Doctrine" to make him look like a great general. Powell is a colossal fuck up who refused to send an armored force to Somalia. The result was the Rangers getting ambushed with no armor to come to assist. Of course, after that happened, an armored brigade was right on the way from Fort Stewart.

[WCGreen]

18. He wrote his Autobiography and it sold so well...

His wife and hiers were set for life....

[DemocratSinceBirth]

4. Whatver Grant Did As President He Gets A Pass For Winning The Civil War..

I hope you're not comparing a Bush* to Ulysses Grant...

[CatWoman]

5. no, not the man

but the corruption - the military industrial complex.

[Bridget Burke]

6. He served two full terms.

Most say he was personally honest, but was unsuccessful in combating the corruption of others. He was a bit too trusting--& was new to politics.

He did NOT stop Reconstruction, but continued to oppose the Klan & pursue rights for blacks. So some Southerners fostered the legend that his presidency was 100% corrupt.

As a General, he helped save the Union. After he left the Presidency, he lost money in a bad investment. To support his family, he wrote his memoirs--while dying of cancer. Many consider the memoirs to be quite excellent.

Some of this info is from memory. Then, there's the usual source:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulysses_S._Grant

There was more to his Presidency than corruption. And there was more to the man than the Presidency.

[CatWoman]

7. this thread isn't supposed to be a slam against Grant

but rather a slam against corruption and croynism in the presidency.

I watched this move, "Son of the Morning Star" - biopic about Custer.

Custer testified before Congress about the corruption he witnessed in the Bureau of Indian Affairs. And he named Grant's brother as one of the benefactors.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

11. Custer Wanted To Be President...

He thought he would burnish his reputation as an Indian fighter and ride that reputation to the White House...


Haha...

Sadly that was the Native American's last big victory which provoked the government to respond with grossly disproportionate force...

[CatWoman]

13. Custer was a fucking loser

hot headed asshole, completely unrealistic in his vision when it came to dealing with Native Americans.

But that doesn't mean he was lying about Grant's brother, or the corruption.

[Zomby Woof]

16. Custer graduated last at West Point!

Yet had such blind ambition... he almost succeeded... but was crushed by his own ego and stupidity.

It is true he may have been truthful about Grant's brother. But as I hinted below, Grant is no more responsible for his brother's behavior than Bill Clinton was for Roger, or Jimmy Carter was for Billy. :D

[DemocratSinceBirth]

19. Custer Equals Bush Without The Battlefield Courage...

I just hope there isn't a Little Big Horn in his and our future.....

[Zomby Woof]

20. Little Big Horn is now

We're swimming in it.

[Zomby Woof]

12. Custer was a dumbass

But besides that, I would see Grant's brother like I see Clinton's - an embarrassing goof, and an example of how trusting Grant was.

Custer testifying about corruption in the BIA is like David Duke testifying about corruption in the Civil Rights Department. Objects in the mirror may be larger than they appear! :D

[Zomby Woof]

8. He served two full terms

He was embarrassed, yes. He himself was an honest man of integrity and virtue, but he had one of the most corrupt cabinets in history. The fact was, he was in over his head - and had NO CONTROL over what they were pulling behind his back. He was too trusting and naive, and had NO political acumen.

He was a failure in civilian life before the Civil War. He served in the Mexican War and was privately opposed to it - it divided the nation the way Vietnam and Iraq have divided us in our time. He resigned from the Army in the 1850's, and worked as general store clerk - and that even failed.

He re-enlisted and made military history. But again, as president, he was a glaring failure the way he was in pre-war life. He simply had no aptitude for politics or administration.

I highly recommend his memoirs. They were edited by Mark Twain, and are still considered the best memoirs of any ex-president. He understandably doesn't dwell on too much on his presidency. But you come away with a sense that he was a well-meaning man in over his head as president. No similarity to Harding, Nixon, Reagan, or Bush II - he had more virtue than all of them combined and then some. His administration, unfortunately, ranks right up there with theirs for its levels of corruption.

[CatWoman]

10. Zomby Big Brother to the rescue

:hi:

Thanks for the info :loveya:

[Zomby Woof]

15. You're welcome!

And thanks to Bridgit for filling in some gaps. Grant DID feel pressure to end Reconstruction and civil rights advances, but stood firm. Unfortunately, the 1876 election (as Grant was ending his second term) between Hayes and Tilden was like 2000 - with Tilden winning the popular vote but not the electoral. Guess where the disputed votes occurred? West Palm Beach County Florida! :crazy:

And so a deal was cut - the southern Democrats said they would give Florida's electoral votes to Republican Rutherford B. Hayes in exchange for Hayes ending Reconstruction, and therefore ending the northern presence in the south to aid African-Americans in securing their rights.

As a side note here, Hayes's great-great grandson is a retired attorney in Seattle named Rutherford P. Hayes. He wrote a letter to the Seattle P-I newspaper in 2000 endorsing Gore.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. Yep... The Republicans Sold Out The Freedman

nt