Beltway vs. Blogosphere ("I feel like I've joined the Resistance!")

[Pirate Smile]

Beltway vs. Blogosphere

Democrats are struggling to reconcile the differences between party leaders in D.C. and independent activists on the Net.

WEB-EXCLUSIVE COMMENTARY
By Howard Fineman
Newsweek
Updated: 11:40 a.m. ET Sept. 14, 2005

Sept. 14, 2005 - If I am hearing Simon Rosenberg right (and he is worth listening to), a nasty civil war is brewing within the Democratic Party, and Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton - the party's presumptive 2008 nominee - needs to avoid getting caught in the middle of it.

"It's not a fight between liberals and conservatives," Rosenberg told me the other day. "It's between our 'governing class' here and activists everywhere else."

In other words, it's The Beltway versus The Blogosphere.

-snip-
Rosenberg rejects that notion that the bloggers represent a new "Internet Left." It's not an ideological rift, he says, but a "narrative" of independence versus capitulation: too many Democrats here are too yielding to George W. Bush on the war in Iraq, on tax policy, you name it. "What the blogs have developed is a narrative," he told me the other day," and the narrative is that the official Washington party has become like Vichy France."

-snip-
But, in the view of the Blogosphere, the DLC model is outmoded and dangerously accomodationist, in the manner of the allegedly independent, but in reality pro-Nazi, regime of wartime of France.

Rosenberg, who has, and can move easily in establishment circles, somewhat self-mockingly declares his own allegiance to the narrative. "I feel like I've joined the Resistance!" he says.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9339863/site/newsweek/

Very Interesting! Read the entire thing.

[charlie]

1. It's been interesting to watch Rosenberg's evolution

from DLC insider to his falling out with From over the direction of the NDN (From was squicked by the "racial politics" of Rosenberg's Hispanic outreach) to his approval (but not endorsement) of Howard Dean... and now this. I think he's right, many on the left would cut way back on their criticisms if the Dems would just be collectively combative.

[JHB]

10. "many on the left would cut way back on their criticisms if the Dems...

...would just be collectively combative"

Oh, indeed! In Spades! Republican strategists have SAID they want to return us to the robber baron days of the 19th Century. They're actions have shown that they aren't kidding, either.

So FIGHT them!

[Pirate Smile]

12. The reputation Dems have developed for not fighting for what they

believe in has been much more damaging then anything else, IMO.

You don't have to always be correct but you must be willing to fight for your beliefs and you must be willing to fight for your constituents rights - that isn't optional, that is your job as their elected representatives.

[hvn_nbr_2]

36. Yep. Fight for your beliefs or Vichy France--Vichy Dems

From the OP: the official Washington party has become like Vichy France
Great analogy. Refresh my memory now: Who was it that took over the country? I can't remember clearly. Was it Casper Milquetoast or was it a gang of pitbulls including Newt Gingrich and KKKarl? :sarcasm:

Vichy Dem Milquetoasts will never accomplish anything.

[kath]

49. Loved the ref. to Vichy France in that article - over on TableTalk,

people have been calling the spineless Dems "Vichy Dems" for years now.

[hvn_nbr_2]

60. What's TableTalk?

I tried tabletalk.com, which is a furniture store, and tabletalk.org, which is a table manners site.

And gee, you burst my bubble. I thought I invented the term upon seeing the reference to Vichy France.

[caraher]

67. Table Talk is a discussion board at salon.com (nm)

[AbbyR]

17. Yup...

The last time a Democrat fundraiser called me for a contribution, I told him that I wouldn't give another penny to the party or any of its representatives until they started standing up and fighting for our beliefs. This Repub-junior, I will be nice version of the party drives me to distraction. :banghead:

[lateo]

30. The Dems are combative...

But the drop to their knees quicker than a twenty-dollar whore after they bark.

It isn't enough to be combative in public and then when it comes time to vote they surrender.

[JHB]

41. I thought you were going to say "...but only with each other"

I mean, how many "anti-DLC" people would there be if the DLC attacked the Republicans as often and as fiercely as it attacks "Left Wing" (read: populist) Dems?

[lateo]

53. I don't know if you have noticed this but...

We have a couple of people here who are pro-DLC that blame certain progressive Dems for various undeniable crazy things...ie....9/11 and Katrina.

[OneGrassRoot]

2. very interesting, indeed ....... thanks! n/t

[leveymg]

3. Does this mean we don't have to shave Simon's head?

;)

[Hardrada]

6. Or send him to Devil's Island!

[Pirate Smile]

13. LOL. I think he gets it. Let's hope he spreads the news around DC.

[Talismom]

4. This answers a lot of questions I've had lately. Thanks! n/t

[iconoclastic cat]

5. Damn right. Read it!

[Pirate Smile]

8. Nominate it if you want more people to see it.

I think it is a good take on the battle going on between the grassroots/netroots and the beltway crowd.

"The first sign of its reemergence was Cindy Sheehan (remember her?) on the national stage. Beltway Democrats avoided her like the plague; the Blogosphere embraced her as a heroine of the grassroots. It wasn't so much the content of what she said; she was, after all, claiming mostly to be asking questions. It was the WAY she came to prominence-quickly, virally, seemingly from out of nowhere-and her stubbornly confrontational tone.

In Rosenberg's view, that's the tone Democrats need to adopt now, especially after Hurricane Katrina. Too many "governing" Democrats, he says, wrongly assume that their party's traditional vision of "competent, benevolent government" has been rejected by the voters. It hasn't, he says.

There is no need, Rosenberg says, to wander in the desert in search of a new theoretical synthesis, the way conservatives did a generation ago. What the Democrats need, he says, is an unforgiving toughness and a mastery of new means of communications-and all of this is more likely to be accomplished in the Blogosphere than inside the Beltway."

[Coexist]

7. Great, true article.

wish he would've mentioned the overwhelming support of the "resistance" for Howard Dean and Wes Clark.

[LiberalEconomist]

9. The nail has a headache

Yes, it is the "fighting spirit stupid." Nicey-nice may have appealed to the now passive, but once active, baby-boom generation. Us X-ers have no time for nicey-nice. Cut through the bullshit and take out the opponent. "Total destruction...flawless victory..." Civility went out the door when the GOP overthrew the republic. This is fucking war.

[jwirr]

47. I am in my sixties and I want a fight - but I have

learned that it must be a smart fight. Know your enemy and his/her tactics. Know your own power. Work together. That is what we are doing here on DU and we have seen it work.

[chalky]

11. Whoa.

Strategically, Clinton has no higher priority than reaching out to what Rosenberg calls “the emerging activist class” and word is that, through aides and advisors, she is doing just that: they have set up meetings with key bloggers.

That alone got me to nomm this.

[Zodiak]

16. I hope she is serious

Meetings through advisors and aides sounds a bit distant, though.

If Hillary meets with "prominent bloggers" (and it better not be Drudge or Wonkette) and is willing to listen and learn a thing or two, then she is at least politically savvy enough to gain the Presidency. If she is offering a vacuous, token meeting to shut the bloggers up, then she is in for a rude awakening.

Time will tell, but I, for one, am willing to give her a chance. She is 65% Democrat, after all.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/9/10/133312/333

[Pirate Smile]

14. kick

[SlowDownFast]

15. Excellent. Recommeded.

[Gregorian]

18. Phew. I feel better about that call I made to Kerry's office today.

Of all the demands he's made, he had better start playing hardball and demand resignations. And impeachment.

I felt so mean, until I realized we're all starting to ask for the same thing. Grow a backbone. Play hardball.

It's only been 20 years of this namby pamby baby play. Stop singing and start swinging!

[Senator]

19. The Real Narrative does not include euphemisms like "Vichy France"

The real narrative describes the DC beltway (and it NYC annex) correctly as a large sphincter muscle, from which few can successfully extract their heads.

This is why I use the term DC/Euphemedia Analstocracy.

And if Simon has really "joined the Resistance" he can no longer "move easily in establishment circles."

We live a world of reality, with 2 demonstrably stolen national elections, and other serial, inarguably-impeachable offenses, all of which demand recognition and full political and legal response.

They live in a bubble of non-reality, created in reaction to the very same events.

---
www.january6th.org

[bobbieinok]

20. article only on the web???? ..... so 'real' people don't have to see it???

[Pacifist Patriot]

23. There is some irony there considering the topic, eh?

[Pacifist Patriot]

21. I disagree with one statement...

"Dean did it without even knowing he was doing it."

I think he knew exactly what he was doing.

Overall the article is outstanding!

[Senator]

32. No, that statement is correct

Dean and Trippi were simply riding a tiger. Neither has been shy about saying so.

In fact, the whole campaign theme of "you have the power" was based on that reality.

(But don't spread it around too much. The more the beltway boobs think that the movement was about Dean personally or an "internet fundraising breakthrough" the more they'll think they've put the genie safely back in the bottle as DNC chair.)

--

[Pacifist Patriot]

33. Really?

I always had the impression he knew darned well the impact and appeal of the internet. Learn something every day. Thanks!

[RaleighNCDUer]

70. I think he picked up on it quickly enough - he is a fairly astute

politician - but the only person more surprised by it was Rove. Of course when Rove thinks of the internet he's thinking Der Sturmer or Stormtrack or whatever the fuck it's called.

[milkyway]

22. Fineman's clueless yet again. Hillary is the "presumptive nominee?" Not so

fast, Howie. And he wonders who will be the candidate of the "emerging activist class." It's this guy, Howie:

http://alternet.org/story/25349/

He's been speaking like the true voice of non-capitulating progressives for a few years now. And he's very, very electable.

[Pacifist Patriot]

24. Oh yeah, make that two sentences I thought were off base.

That would made me raise my eyebrows as well. I wouldn't say there is any "presumptive nominee" at this point.

[Pirate Smile]

25. Right but that has been the mantra of the talking heads as soon as

the 2004 election ended (it actually seemed to be their theme before the 2004 election was over).

[Pacifist Patriot]

27. Oh I know.

I definitely heard "Clinton '08!" well before primary season in the last general election.

[abbiehoff]

29. I'm not sure any Democrat is electable as president

unless we can clean up the election process and count the votes correctly. Democrats have gotten more votes than the "winner" in the last two presidential elections, but it didn't matter.

[milkyway]

31. You're right. A Dem has to be up by at least 6% in the polls for it not

to be stolen. Kerry won, but not by enough to make it totally implausible that bush won.

[UrbScotty]

40. I was just going to say that.

The term 'presumptive nominee' is for someone who has secured the nomiantion after all other candidates have dropped out, i.e. Kerry after Super Tuesday.

[jwirr]

50. I would gladly support Al Gore over Hillary Clinton.

He is a great man who believes in Rule of Law and cares about people.

[stubertmcfly]

73. I would gladly support....

...nearly ANYONE over Hillary. No offense but if the _____ in '08 isn't bad enough the fact that Hillary's name gets thrown in there all the time is even worse. I can't think of a worse candidate to really rally the GOP voting base.

I have always voted Democrat but I don't get excited at all about Hillary as our candidate for President. Sure, I'd vote for her over Cheney or whomever the GOP runs but ugh.

[rateyes]

55. Damned straight! Gore has been proven

correct, and has shown himself for the leader he is...America needs him LEADING, not following someone else. IMHO, if he runs, he beats Hillary, and probably everybody else in the primaries.

[Laurab]

59. To a lot of people she is because the Repukes keep saying it

so, in their minds, she is the "presumptive nominee". I don't get it. She has done NOTHING special in her entire career that I know of, she is so hated by the RW that it will be a real get-out-the-vote push for them without even working at it. Personally, I don't think she's electable - at this point in time, I don't know who is, but she would certainly be at the bottom of my list. I don't mean to bash her, I like her okay, she's an okay senator (she's my senator), but I see no reason in the world she should be the "presumptive nominee", and I don't think she really is. The RW would like nothing more than for that to be true, but I just don't think it is. I do agree with much of the article - we need a fighter, and I keep waiting....

edit: typo

[howmad1]

63. Every time I see Fineman on tweetys' show

I want to gag. He's been a toady for the rethuglicans for as long as I can remember. Take his words with a grain of salt.

[RaleighNCDUer]

71. He's referencing the DLC crowd, and for them she is the

presumptive nominee.

But once again they are not figuring us into the equation.

[Generic Other]

26. seemingly out of nowhere...heh...heh...

"The first sign of its re-emergence was Cindy Sheehan (remember her?) on the national stage. Beltway Democrats avoided her like the plague; the Blogosphere embraced her as a heroine of the grass roots. It wasn’t so much the content of what she said; she was, after all, claiming mostly to be asking questions. It was the WAY she came to prominence—quickly, virally, seemingly from out of nowhere—and her stubbornly confrontational tone."

[earth mom]

28. Vive La Resistance!

Message to dems in office:

KICK SOME ASS or GET THE HELL OUT! WE WILL FIND SOMEONE WHO WILL!

[ktowntennesseedem]

39. KICK!!! I love it!!!

Tell 'em: "There WILL be some ass-kicking taking place. All you have to decide is whether you will be on the giving or receiving end."

Kick some ass, or we'll kick yours!

[paineinthearse]

66. the way the Democratic party is run...

...is NOT very democratic. They rule to maintain power and control.

The Massachusetts platform convention last March was a joke. Those in control are further restricting participation, for example, the same group that ran the convention (the charter committee) held a meeting tonight. Any Dem could attend, but could not address the meeting ("...and any concerned Democrat may pose a question or questions through any member...".

It's time to bring democracy back to the Democratic party, FROM THE GRASSROOTS.

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. So... when Senator Clinton declares her candidacy

we will have to ask, was she presured? It is coming from all sides even if she has said I am not running, but expect a change of heart

Also expect this civil war to deepen if Rosenberg is right, and peak in 2006... I expect the landscape to radically change if Diebold does not get 100:1 vote ratio

[StefanX]

35. "The DLC has no constituency"

I think Conason wrote this recently.

Googled it but can't find it.

[Pirate Smile]

37. I just searched also and found nothing. That was just a couple of

days ago. Did he say it on AAR? On Franken's show?

[nvliberal]

38. It might have been

Bernie Ward's show of Monday night.

Conason should stick with reporting rather than inside political party baseball.

[JHB]

42. It was Ward's show

Here's the thread:

longship (1000+ posts) Tue Sep-13-05 05:59 AM
Original message
Joe Conason: DLC has no constituency!
Joe is on Bernie Ward's program.

He said the DLC will not be picking the next Presidential nominee because they have no constituency. The activists in the party are on the Internet; they are the ones doing all the money raising.

Gawd, I love that guy.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4753820

[Pirate Smile]

44. Good job. Thanks. He is right. Thanks, Joe.

[slay]

43. Beltway obviously doesn't work

and in my opinion is part of the problem. This quote pretty much says it all: "But, in the view of the Blogosphere, the DLC model is outmoded and dangerously accomodationist, in the manner of the allegedly independent, but in reality pro-Nazi, regime of wartime of France."

It has become painfully obvious that many involved in the DLC at best allow the Republicans to get away with their crimes, and at worst are nothing more than Republicans dressed up as Democrats. Here's hoping the Blogosphere wins this war! :)

[Lindacooks]

45. "A cold smile"????

Gee, no bias there, huh?

[Voltaire99]

46. Why worry about Hillary's fate? She's history--bad history.

Hillary as much as anyone has put the Vichy in this party.

Her eagerness to go to war, her eagerness to remain at war, her betrayal of American workers in promoting outsourcing, and her friendliness to corporations mark her as no one worth supporting.

If the party fobs off a Hillary nomination, it will not get my help. "Anybody But Jeb" sooner or later will become the rallying cry of the hacks, but it's going to be very far from a siren call to my ears or those of the many I know who are disgusted with this spineless party for serving as Bush's patsies.

Party leaders: your shameful time is up. Step aside, reform, or adios.

[The Witch]

48. Rec'd! finally we're getting the kind of press we need

Finally, someone in the "establishment" GETS IT!

[Generator]

51. Hot damn!

DU'ers again! Between Joe Conason saying yesterday the DLC will NOT pick the 2008 nominee and this-well I first heard the term Vichy Dem here on DU. You guys rock!

PS The narrative ain't just a bedtime story..it's the truth.

[TankLV]

52. FIneman is a whiny repuke whore.

He makes effeminate gay people look butch!

Who gives a flying fart what he says.

Repuke party over logic, reason, facts, country, humanity - that's h is entire life motto.

[Stockholm]

54. This is not a democrat problem or a US problem

The situation is the same all over the world.

The Internet"s" have to a degree changed politics and IMHO improved the conditions for democray.

It has smashed the collective "bubble" grassroots more or less were confined to previously and sharply shortens the feed back-time for the political leadership, especially if they are out of sync with their voters.

There are already some bloggers with political clout out there and I bet it won´t take long before a future leader is elevated from their ranks.

[Pepperbelly]

56. Rosenburg seems prescient and on the money.

That is my view after being on the Internets since forever.

[purduejake]

57. What the "Beltway" Dems need to realize is...

They've lost my vote and I don't think I'm alone.

[Nothing Without Hope]

65. No, you're not alone. There is a great lack of TRUST for politicians, and

given the DLC's sorry non-performance, they are clearly not worthy of trust. They have already demonstrated how they will do ANYTHING to get along with the criminals who have driven this country toward ruin. That makes them guilty and they need to be booted out.

[rateyes]

58. Democrats have to be sharks right now!

There is blood in the water, and it's Republican blood, and now is the not the time to "feel sorry" or "just get along for the sake of unity." We smell blood, and we need to feed on the chum without feeling guilty about it. There is a hell of a lot more at stake in this world than "who is in the majority." And, the problems we face will not be solved when the Dems get in the majority. It's about a vision of RESTORING peace and freedom and civil rights to a country and then a world that is teetering on the brink of disaster. And, we need LEADERSHIP that is bold and unafraid to stand up to people like Bush and Co, who are selling OUR birthrights for a mess of pottage. That's why Cindy Sheehan has such appeal. A grieving woman ready to "drive a political stake through the black heart of George Bush." That, I can identify with.

And, if realizing that vision means that a few Democrats have to go down the tubes, then so be it. This is bigger than the Democratic Party. And, we will need to judge candidates, not on their words of appeasement, but on their actions demonstrating real leadership in the direction of that vision. IMHO, Hillary Clinton doesn't have it, and a few kind words pretending to be listening to the "blogosphere" won't cut it. I'm tired of hearing the talk, I want to see the walk. If she steps up to the plate and takes a stand and FIGHTS==really fights for that vision--then, I'll listen, until then, I'm looking for real leadership--Al Gore, IMHO and a few others fit that bill.

We aren't in the business, as progressives, of coronation---we are in the business of taking back our country for the people--and, it means that we will have to get our hands dirty.

Smell the blood, sharks---and, attack!

[Nothing Without Hope]

61. Yes, this is very true. The choice between GOP and GOP-enabling

really isn't a choice at all. We are at a turning point for this country, one way or the other. More years of accommodating the disastrous regime that the GOP evolved into will be the end of hope for regaining democracy. It cannot be borne.

I don't trust Hillary Clinton and I will not work for her. I suspect the GOP wouldn't mind a term of accommodating Dems in the WH, so they can get blamed for the terrible problems brought by Bush Administration policies - while actually not changing anything.

This is absolutely true:

in the view of the Blogosphere, the DLC model is outmoded and dangerously accomodationist, in the manner of the allegedly independent, but in reality pro-Nazi, regime of wartime of France.

In these terrible times, a business-as-usual, more-of-the-same, go-along-to-get-along "Democratic" candidate is very little improvement over the GOPs. Not enough to save the country, and I will not support it. The DLC has become a well-fed, lazy, and - I believe - often corrupt backroom collaborator in the destruction of this country.

[bpilgrim]

62. thank GORE he 'INVENTED' the INTERNETs ;-)

We're HERE...

more...
http://GlobalFreePress.com

psst... pass the word ;->

peace

[Nothing Without Hope]

64. If it's true that Hillary Clinton thinks the way to win over the

"blogosphere" is to set up meetings with a few "key bloggers," she's wrong. This isn't a passive, shut-up-and-do-what-we-tell-you kind of political arena. If Atrios or Kos suddenly started spouting, say, pro-Hillary pieces and censoring anything opposing this candidate or the issues the candidate supports, they would find their audience of activists shrinking.

Hello, empty-headed analysts: we internet activists are NOT blindly following leaders, we are here to learn what is actually going on, watch what leaders and potential leaders DO as opposed to SAY what they will do, and make up our OWN minds based on the facts. We are grateful for internet sites to gather and get our business done together, but that doesn't mean we agree with the political choices of the people who run the sites.

Why is it so hard for people to imagine that we come to these internet forums because we want to know the truth and make this terrible national and global situation better, NOT because we want to be led by the nose by anti-progressive politicians who cannot be trusted? The GOP-accomodating DLC seem to be so mired in their own sorry rut that they can't see it's the way to ruin for us all. We can't afford more years of this while hoping that they finally wake the hell up and DO something besides mouth platitudes.

I do question the author's blanket statement that the 2008 nomination is "Hillary Clinton's to lose." I seem to hear that much more from Republicans who want it to be true than Dems or Independents who actually want to know what is going on.

[BamaBecky]

68. I no longer support the Democrat party, waiting on them to

do something about 911, then I'll read their e-mails! I'm still a liberal in search of leadership.
Bama

[oc2002]

69. Hillary is not one of us, and we should not support her.

She is DLC through and through, rotten inside and out. She is a Bush enabler and a corporate appeaser.

She is not the stuff of leadership.

[HootieMcBoob]

72. Gee...I wonder who the "netroots" might embrace...duh

Let's see...who has won each of the dailykos and mydd strawpolls over the last few months by increasingly large margins?

WES CLARK!!!!!!!!!!!

And yet even in an article about the blogosphere and who we might end up "embracing" in the primaries - not even a mention.

They are going to try to shove Hillary down our throats and if that happens it will be a disaster.

They are afraid of Clark because he isn't one of them and they know if he catches on he would be unbeatable - so their tactic is to ignore him. We can't let that happen.

[melissinha]

74. So, who's a rebel?

I am

[Gloria]

75. If Hillary is "getting it" then she should tell Bill when he's on Larry

King tonight to not utter one word of praise for Bush and to talk ONLY about his UN project. I don't want to hear ONE MORE WORD about the Bush-Poppy love fest and any covering up for Bushco's mistakes with Iraq or Katrina.

[adigal]

76. I really wanted to run for Congress against

John Sweeney, NY, drunk driver and wife abuser. Well, to say I was discouraged by the county chairpeople is an understatement!!! They are running a woman lawyer with close ties to Hillary Clinton.

Fine. But it is a very repub district, I used to be a repub, will never vote repub again, have a husband who was a NYC firefighter, disabled because of the air quality at the WTC, and I was not given any consideration at all.

So even when the activists and the grassroots, the real people who know the effect of gasoline at $3.59/gallon, want to get involved, no one wants us except to lick their envelopes.

[jwirr]

77. I have been thinking about how to take control of local

politics. Here in Minnesota we have caucuses. In other states there are other ways. We need to learn those ways and show up at these things with the same kind of power we use here on DU. We are able to educate ourselves and speak to the issues so that we will become respected in the local level and then move up. Unfortunately we may not have the time for that.