What we call Islam is a mirror in which we see ourselves

[muriel_volestrangler]

An interesting comment piece in The Guardian by Timothy Garton Ash. Ask yourself what you really think the root causes of the conflict (or conflicts) are. And then tell us.

Six views of the west's problems with the Muslim world reveal as much about those who hold them as the conflict itself

Four years after the September 11 2001 terrorist attacks on New York and Washington, which were perpetrated in the name of Allah, most people living in what we still loosely call the west would agree that we do have troubles with Islam. The vast majority of Muslims are not terrorists, but most of the terrorists who threaten us claim to be Muslims. Most countries with a Muslim majority show a resistance to what Europeans and Americans generally view as desirable modernity, including the essentials of liberal democracy.

Why? What's the nub of the problem? Here are six different views often heard in the west, but also, it's important to add, in Muslim countries such as Iran. As you go down the list, you might like to put a mental tick against the view you most strongly agree with. It's logically possible to put smaller ticks against a couple of others, but not against them all.
...
Now, which of the six views got your largest tick? In answering that question, you will not just be saying something about the Islamic world; you will be saying something about yourself. For what we call Islam is a mirror in which we see ourselves. Tell me your Islam and I will tell you who you are.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1570236,00.html

So, where does your biggest tick go? Please read the article before voting - the one-line summaries I give may not do justice to the views that Garton Ash is describing.

[R Hickey]

1. The problem is religion itself

I'm an atheist. I don't believe in make-believe. I don't believe in gods, holy ghosts, or the magical kingdoms of heaven and hell. Rational thought makes me evil in the eyes of those who love superstition, and especially those who package and sell that product. The superstition industry hates clear thinkers.

I believe that believers are the problem. True believers want to force all other people to believe the same myths that they believe. The religious must occasionally feel ridiculous about their silly fantasies, and perhaps this provides the motivation to convince other people that their delusions are real.

Violent religions win out over peaceful religions, so the worst religions generally grow the fastest.

[Qibing Zero]

2. I voted religion, however,

the problem really isn't religion's existance or it's supernatural quality. It's the fact that most religions stifle freethought, and instead cause people to adhere to authority and established belief blindly, that gets me. I also strongly disagree with the entire bit about judaism or christianity (and mentioning of the christian right) being a little better. Not only does history show that to be dead wrong, but I think that if the christian right had the same kind of power in the US, things would be much worse for the world. Hell, they have enough power as it is, and look at the sickening shit that has happened over the past 5 years.

Really though: raise kids to be open minded, and then see how many religious people we have in the world in a few generations.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

4. You only have to look back to

the Puritans to see what kind of mischief real fundamentalists (Christians) can get into. And that wasn't so very long ago. They were thrown out of England because of their excesses.

[RedstDem]

3. Where Is "None Of The Above"?

The Heart Of The Conflict Is Feminism, Arab Middle Eastern Men See Women In The West With Power, & Damn If They Will Let That Happen Over There. It Might Sound Too Simple, But, Think About It. That Is The One Component Of A Modern Society They Will Resist Until The End Of Time.

[muriel_volestrangler]

5. I would say that comes under "Arab culture and history"

if you think it's just an Arabic problem, or "Islam is unreformed" if you think it comes from the religion rather than the one traditional culture.

Sorry, it's too late for me to add a "none of the above" now. But Garton Ash did say you could pick some reasons as secondaries - this was to find the primary one, in your opinion (or the one closest to your opinion).

[enigma000]

7. They hate us because they hate our freedoms? n/t

[PublicWrath]

9. A couple of professors finished a major survey in the Moslem world

just as we were preparing to march into Iraq. One of the questions asked was why they disliked the USA. The top two reasons are given in order of popularity:

1)Because we support Israel.
2)BECAUSE AMERICAN WOMEN RUN WILD! Words to that effect anyway. We're unvirtuous.



Empowered women are sexually liberated and that is more threatening to conservative Moslem men than anything else, I think.

[porphyrian]

6. Reading the article did change my initial response.

Based on the article's descriptions, I changed from my initial urge to say that religion itself is the problem to the meeting of Islam with Western society. While I've always believed this to be a memetic conflict, I think it is on a much grander scale than just the clash of religion struggling for dominance. This is closer to the effect of colonialization - the entire culture feels threatened on some level (though attracted on others, thus the confusion and feelings of guilt) and this is its defense mechanism.

[muriel_volestrangler]

8. One reason for shying away from the "religion itself" argument

is a comparison between the western relationships between Islamic, and other non-Christian, countries. For instance, Pakistan and India. The BBC did a worldwide poll of "Who runs your world?"

On the question of who had the most influence on decisions taken in personal lives, 92% of surveyed Indians said family and partner, compared to only 45% of Pakistanis. A total of 18% of Pakistanis answered religious leader, while none of the Indians surveyed did.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4246054.stm

Quite a difference - and the basic difference would seem to be that Hinduism expects more to guide rather than control people - and I'd say that reformed Christianity is closer to Hinduism in that respect, and so can co-exist with 'hedonism' - even if it doesn't like it.