Did they just pull the "2000 school buses" number out of the air?

[madfloridian]

Or pull it out of somewhere else? I have wondering where they got the number 2000. Media Matters has some stuff about it which indicates the Moonie Washington Times started it.

There appear to be much much fewer than that. I wish that someone would find out the answer to the question so they would sending it around as a false soundbite.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200509120005

"September 11, ABC host George Stephanopoulos repeated a falsehood that had reverberated through the right-wing media the preceding week -- that "there were 2,000 buses under water" that New Orleans Mayor C. Ray Nagin could have used to evacuate his city before Hurricane Katrina's arrival. The claim appears to have originated in a September 6 column by Washington Times editor-in-chief Wesley Pruden, who inaccurately charged that, although Nagin ordered a mandatory evacuation before the hurricane's arrival, he "kept the city's 2,000 school buses parked and locked in neat rows when there was still time to take the refugees to higher ground." Conservative websites, including the Power Line and Little Green Footballs weblogs, quickly linked to Pruden's column."

"But Pruden dramatically overstated the number of New Orleans school buses. As of 2003, the most recent year for which data appears to be available, the Orleans Parish school district, which operates New Orleans' public schools, owned only 324 school buses. In addition, a Louisiana Department of Transportation and Development profile of the New Orleans Regional Transit Authority (RTA), last updated May 5, notes that RTA owned 364 public buses, bringing the total of the city's public transit and school buses to fewer than 700 (assuming the fleet of school buses has not been dramatically increased since 2003), far fewer than the 2,000 Pruden claimed."

In fact, The New York Times reported on September 4 that Louisiana emergency planners believed it would take as many as 2,000 buses "to evacuate an estimated 100,000 elderly and disabled people" in the event of a catastrophic hurricane like Katrina. But, The New York Times wrote, this was "far more than New Orleans possessed."

Pruden's claim that the city possessed 2,000 school buses that could have been used for a pre-storm evacuation appears to be an exaggeration of a September 1 Associated Press photograph of school buses parked in a flooded lot in New Orleans. The photograph was widely reported on conservative websites, including the Media Research Center's NewsBusters weblog, the Instapundit weblog, and Michelle Malkin's weblog. A September 6 MSNBC.com article that described the scene in the AP photograph noted, "Some 200 New Orleans school buses sit underwater in a parking lot, unused. That's enough to have evacuated at least 13,000 people."

AND this number really stunned me....the number of people most likely left in the city:

While estimates of the number of residents stranded in New Orleans following the storm vary, New Orleans officials have suggested that 80 percent of the city's residents evacuated before the hurricane hit. That leaves roughly 97,000 residents who remained in New Orleans.

New Orleans' combined fleet of public transit and school buses would not have had nearly enough capacity to evacuate all of those who remained in the city. A July 8 Times-Picayune article, titled "RTA buses would be used for evacuation; But plan still falls far short of needs," pointed out that the RTA owned 364 public buses. "Even if the entire fleet was used," the Times-Picayune noted, "the buses would carry only about 22,000 people out of the city -- far short of the 134,000 people estimated to be without cars in a recent University of New Orleans study." Even the addition of the full school bus fleet would have been far from sufficient to transport the remaining residents.

[benddem]

1. Just like all the other

crap the wingers spew. Right out of their a......

[WildClarySage]

2. Were there 2000 drivers?

Were there available locations to drive them to? Was there money to house them when they arrived in their destinations? Were there resources like food, gas and water to supply the buses? Were there emergency medical crews available to tend the sick and elderly who needed the buses to leave?

just askin'...

[smirkymonkey]

20. Yes - The 2000 Missing Postal Workers.

Huh! Typical.

:sarcasm:

[htuttle]

3. They pulled it out of Limbaugh's copious ass

His anal cyst is quite the fabricator.

[barb162]

4. Hey, I think I have the answer. They always show that

picture of those buses in the parking lot. I heard Nagin being questioned with in the last week and he basically said the drivers of the school buses, mostly women with families, were already evacuating or already evacuated themselves maybe a day or two before the hurricane hit. Who was he supposed to get to drive the buses? He also said some of the lawlessness in NOLA was already starting to pop up in the news and the women were afraid to go into NOLA and drive people out of NOLA. Also where were the people supposed to go? The train was another issue, Amtrak supposedly offered to take some people out on one of their last runs and I can't for the life of me remember how that was handled and why it didn't happen although I seem to remember the Mayor say he doesn't remember hearing that offer because hew ould have taken them up on it.A typical train can hadle about a thousand people I think. That still wouldn't have done the trick but it would have helped a little . That's all I can remember and I don't even remember the interviewer.

[sandnsea]

8. That about covers it

And Jebby's bullshit about evacuating people? Florida has an evacuation site. I can't find it on there. Yes there's stuff about transportation, but it doesn't say for who or to where. I suspect it's just like New Orleans, evacuation to a shelter.

http://www.floridadisaster.org/

[barb162]

19. J. Bush has such great plans, my eye

That's why so many people in Florida also have blue tarps on their roofs from the hurricanes last year. His great plans...That's why people in trailers (for god's sake) on beaches were never evacuated.

[faithnotgreed]

5. ok last night i saw al franken show w/david brock on sundance

and heres the explanation

the managing editor at washington times (pruden) was the first to use this phony #
he just made it up

in fact david brock used to work at washington times and he said (which al was well aware of) that there was a term they used called "prudenized" to describe how that tactic works
just making things over the top

so brock researched it and said that pruden first used it sept 4 then hannity was next on his show pounding out that figure

then stephanopoulos

that according to david brock

he actually said there were 254 working buses
324 - 70 that werent running

[alphafemale]

11. So, they multiplied buses by 10. Like #'s of people at a pro-Bush rally.

Got it.

[faithnotgreed]

12. you know their math very well....

yes
your statement probably about sums it up

[faithnotgreed]

16. to fill out explanation:

which i left out of course (sorry)

see demgrrrll post below
or here is the rest:

i think pruden stated that # as fact in the washington times
(the nyt stated "even if there had been 2000 buses" it wouldnt have been enough)

then hannity took that # and pounded a couple guests and gingrich took over and repeated the falsehood on fox i think

then gingrich was on stephanopoulos show and he (george) repeated that figure as fact in a conversation that incl gingrich

whew
thats how it works

[sandnsea]

6. RTA drove people to the Superdome

If the buses were evacuating people out of the city, they wouldn't have been able to give people rides to the Superdome, which would have meant more people stranded in houses and dead. That's why the evacuation plan calls for the RTA to drive people to a "shelter of last resort".

[TallahasseeGrannie]

7. Gosh. My school district is huge

and we have about 200 busses, max. That doesn't ring true to me.

[Rainscents]

9. I heard, actual number of school buses under water was... 70 buses!

Number 2000 was from FOX NEWS and everyone took the numbers from Fox and ran with it.
Mayor Nagin told this to NIghtline last week. When you look at the photo's of buses, you can see, there's no fucking way 2000 buses under water.

[demgrrrll]

10. Brock was on Al Franken's show last night and he said he had confirmed

that there were about 330 buses and 70 of those buses were broken down so I think there were about 250 available buses. Not nearly enough to transport a huge number of people. He thought the 2000 number might have been grabbed from a New York Times? article that stated that "even if there were 2000 buses" or something like that.
Apparently the NYT did not say there were that many but used the figure as an example and then Gingrich and his posse ran with the number. I may have some of this wrong because Brock spoke quickly. His point was that this is how they operate, they start out on Fox with a lie and the lie then seeps into the MSM.

[faithnotgreed]

13. thats it - nyt only stated even IF there were 2000 buses

on edit: but i believe the washington times (pruden) used this # first and the nyt was responding to it

according to david brock research
i think this is the sequence

[Tsiyu]

15. I think it was actually a Washington Times OpEd that originally

tossed out the 2000 figure. Gotta love the busshit in any case.

[faithnotgreed]

17. yes washington times i think used it first - correct

according to david brock

[Tsiyu]

14. He aslo discussed the "pverty figures" where they claim ** has lower

numbers.

Actually poverty was around 15% WHEN CLINTON TOOK OFFICE (another Bush legacy). It was 11% when he left office and ** took over.

It has now climbed to 12%, but the ** shills use the 15% and 11% figures to claim Bush's poverty numbers are lower. Aren't they just clever as hell?

[faithnotgreed]

18. i know it - isnt that wholly typical

wasnt that again a washington times guy

on edit: what i will never understand is how complete liars and those who exaggerate any sense of facts end up on television

its one thing they have their own radio shows
and its even one thing that they appear on fox because everyone who wants to know does understand that fox completely shills

but what i will never get - even with explanation - is how these same people end up on television media as commentators or guests etc

oh and why are those who completely lie - including politicians of course - always on the right

they have the most outrageous claims and they always come from the right
you dont see hard left people even on television and for those who are allowed they dont lie about things
can you think of any on the left who make things up
if anything they are all weak and dont fight - even with the facts

[Tsiyu]

21. It's all about $$$$$

Most people will compromise to a small or large degree to make a few $$$$

The folks in TV land are caught in a real struggle (LOL.) The number of actual viewers has dropped; the Internet is a HUGH1111!!!!! threat and don't you forget that!

When numbers drop, networks have to woo a larger share of audience to keep the advertising charges high ( based on # of viewers.) Since ** has tanked, they can't very well hold onto share by kissing his ass.

But the Parent media companies and corporations - and blackmailers - keep them from pushing the envelope too far. They will make a few snide remarks or ask a few biting questions but in the end they will allow most lies to go unchallenged. It sucks, and that's why I pretty much avoid TV. It's completely irrelevant these days.

I learn more on DU in fifteen minutes than I can learn all day watching corporate news.

[chalky]

22. Apparently, this whole Bus thing is a big lie, according to one who would

know:

http://www.readingeagle.com/editor/archives/2005/09/new_orleans_bus.html

The transcript isn't online yet, but it will be, and on Friday night's "Real Time With Bill Maher," Walter Maestri, the emergency management chief for Jefferson Parish, commented on that famous image of municipal buses parked waterlogged in a flood zone.

The photo, plastered prominently all over Drudge, came to symbolize the ineptitude on city officials. Why weren't the buses put into service to save people?

Maestri, the chicken little (in a good way) of Louisiana crisis planners, told Maher, "The buses were used, and then brought back to get another load of folks. The problem is that a number of people, particularly in the city of New Orleans, didn't have the resources themselves to be able to leave....The buses were used to get as many people out as we possibly could."

Maestri said that three generations of New Orleans residents never faced a storm of Katrina's magnitude and simply thought they could ride it out, viewing those who ordered an evacuation "as prophets of doom and gloom."

Kind of puts the dent in the argument that local officials were the ones asleep at the wheel.

[Debs]

23. All Freeper numbers from Rectal Database n/t

[Pepperbelly]

24. the more important question for those right wing knotheads ,,,

and drive them where?