Need help with Jesus liberal teaching

[question everything]

I am debating freepers - more or less - about the meaning of progressive.

Started when one of them posted this:

"Can someone please explain to me how the liberals got exclusive rights to the term "progressive." Conservatives have let them get away with it. We may pronounce the word with a wry smile or a raised eyebrow, but the fact is, it's still a pretty complimentary term. Progress is a good thing, right?"

So I gave a long reply and mentioned that I've heard that if Jesus were walking among our midst teaching, he would be labeled a bleeding heart liberal, a Commie.

But, I am not familiar with Jesus teaching so can someone please provide me with a sentence or two? One of them already replied with 'render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, not "soak the rich."

Thanks

[skooooo]

1. Early Christian communities..

....were set up "each according to his means, each according to his need," which is a rather Marxist, or at least socialist point of view I think. THat phrase is found in the book of Acts.

[Yupster]

19. Certainly very anti-rich

and pro-poor, but something Jesus had no use for was the government, so I don't think calling him socialist is right.

The government was to be tolerated or ignored as much as possible, not used for good causes.

[mntleo2]

20. According to Elaine Pagels

Harvard professor of divinity, the early (within 1/2 a century after Jesus' death) gnostic christians drew lots for priestly duties and the lots also included women to do those duties. Also one of the apostle Paul's best friends was Lydia a dyer of purple, who was a prophet, it says in Acts....

The Gospel of Mary, discovered within the last 1/2 century also is a document authenticated as being less than a century old after Jesus' time. It describes a woman who was a "disciple" and she was the one whom Jesus loved the most, that he "kissed her on the mouth" and was his dearest friend...Google the Gospel of Mary Magdalen sometime and you will see what I mean...it almost appears in these writings as if Mary was his wife as well as his friend....

Not only that...they really should read the Beatitudes sometimes, and also that Jesus called the leaders of his time "vipers and hypocrites". He had *no* tolerance for the people in power because they cared more about the laws than people ~ especially since the elite benefited most from those laws financially as well as in privilege, while the little people suffered under those same laws. (Matthew 12).

Oh and about Matthew. One of the very first churches established was in India, by this man. Lebanese tradition says some of the "lost years" of Jesus was spent in India studying under the great yogis of that time. That community of Indian chrsitians is still in existence today, I have met some of them, from the state of Karala. They trace their christianity back 2000 years....

When Jesus met the woman at the well, the prostitute, he befriended her and went to her home. A prostitute had sometimes hundreds of partners....they could not get pregnant in order to ply their trade and make a living. How do you suppose with no reliable birth control, they managed not to have children? Could we use the word A-B-0-R-T-I-O-N here? No mention of that by Jesus as her worse sin tho, only that she had "had five husbands...."

Polycarp, the third Pope was a dear friend of the apostle Peter. He was a devout believer in reincarnation ~ Polycarp, "many bodies" get it? You can read Polycarp's letters to Peter if you google them on the Net...I believe they are posted and translated from the Vatican....

I know not all of these things are considered part of the "liberal" agenda per se, but many of these practices and beliefs are attributed to the "loony left" of today...all of them biblical and/or historical...

Hopefully this will give you a start....

Cat In Seattle

[question everything]

21. Beautiful summary. Thank you (nt)

[Tsiyu]

23. Um, the woman at the well wasn't a prostitute

She was a Samaritan who came to the well where Jesus was sitting. In Jesus' day, Jews and Samaritans did not speak. Jesus was hanging at the ancient well thirsty but without a cup while his followers procured groceries in a nearby town. Jesus was too high-profile to tag along.

When the woman showed up and he spoke to her, she was surprised, because he didn't care about the "rules" between the Jews and Samaritans. She wanted to discuss religion with him ( she was a woman very concerned with spiritual matters.) He said, "Go get your husband and we'll chat." She could have lied, but she was honest and said, "I have no husband."

Many have misinterpreted Jesus' next words to mean he was accusing her or showing his judgement of her when he says, "You are correct. In fact, you have been married five times and the man you live with isn't your husband." But she never tried to hide her status. She was an honest woman. Jesus said this to her to gain her confidence, to show her he really was all-knowing. He needed her to help him spread his message so he told her something about herself that he could otherwise have no way of knowing.

At that time, it was very easy for a man to divorce and abandon his wives. There was a lot of social fallout. It is clear Jesus blamed the hard-hearted men for this, not the women.

She returned to her town ( but left her water dipper for Jesus, cuz she was also a generous person) and told many people about her meeting with this guy. "Because of her testimony, many believed." She obviously had the ear of a few people, and her words were trusted by them.

Jesus and his disciples were invited to her town where they were offered meals and a place to sleep for a few days.

I could go on, but it is a very important - yet misinterpreted story. I'm not a Christian any more, but i still get irked when people quote the bible without actually reading it or understanding it.

[mntleo2]

24. Good Point But...

I misinterpreted, and it is true Jesus said that divorce was created, "because of men's hardness of heart..." I would still say that Jesus visit with this woman was notable because she was considered a woman of "ill repute" in that her sin was having five husbands...and was a Samaritan, I should have gone back and read the text all right.

Still what I am trying to point out is that there was no reliable birth control in those days. And while having more children was considered good for people of means, lots of children was, and is, not the easiest for especially the poor to support. No birth control and yet, no mention anywhere of abortion being the worse sin or even being addressed at all by Jesus or anyone. Perhaps one might say his compassion for the poor involved the very real grief of family in poverty...

I hope I am not sounding too harsh here, but take it from a woman of poverty: People were and are very practical for good reason. This has been true for all time; if anyone thinks a poor woman is or was most of the time, glad to be pregnant....NOT!!!! It does not matter whether she is married or not, pregnancy only means more burden for her. Having children is not only work while in labor giving birth, they are a lot of work for at least the first few years of their lives. You can love them until the cows come home, but with the infant mortality there was (and is in America), that labor does not produce more assistance for the family's survival, it worsens it's chances for survival. Another child means a woman works twice as hard with little or no assistance because childcare is another huge responsibility added onto what she already must do for her family. To make matters worse, often she wound up losing her children to death or slavery, and this meant more deep heartache and suffering for BOTH mother and child. It might be and is considered to be better and more loving if a person did not exist to endure such a life....

My point is, abortion was a biblical "non-issue" while in the Old Testament, simply the act of "spilling seed on the ground" was grounds for being struck dead for a man (Gen 28). Nowhere is abortion considered as even worth mentioning in our modern Bible. It should be assumed that abortion was practiced (perhaps commonly) because it was the *only* means of reliable birth control. Especially for poor women...

My two cents....

Cat In Seattle

[Tsiyu]

25. No quarrel with moi

I agree with everything you've written. as a woman who made a whopping $$$eight grand last year ( a four-figure income!)


The "woman at the well" story has always fascinated me, probably because it is so misunderstood, but I believe you understand reality as well as I, and I appreciate your posts on this matter. :hi:

[GreenPartyVoter]

2. Come to my website. :^)

http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/liberalchristians.htm

[question everything]

9. This is a wonderful webpage that really requires time

to view everything. Unfortunately, I was looking for a quick comeback.

But thank you. This is really a labor of love.

[H2O Man]

3. Erich Fromm

noted that the sermon on the mount was a revolutionary manifesto of the poor.

[kath]

4. There's a website "Liberals Like Christ"

www.liberalslikechrist.org

[blonndee]

5. From http://www.jesusisaliberal.org

But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the maimed, the lame, the
blind, and you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you. You will be repaid at the resurrection of the just. Luke 14:13-14

Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children
of God. Matthew 5:9

Resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. Matthew 5:39

I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you,
do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despite-fully use you, and persecute you. Matthew 5:44

Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; a man's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions. Luke 12.15.

Truly, I say unto you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 19:23

You cannot serve both God and Money. Matthew 6:24.

Love your neighbor as yourself. Matthew 22:39

So in everything, do to others as you would have them do to you. Matthew 7:12.

If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Matthew 19:21

[question everything]

7. Thank you so much. This is what I need (nt)

[scarletlib]

17. Read the Gospel of Matthew especially the "Sermon on the Mount"

other things Jesus said: If a man ask you to walk a mile with him go two miles. If he asks for your cloak give him your shirt as well. (paraphrasing here).

When you feed the poor, comfort the afflicted, visit prisoners then you are doing it to me.

Before you criticize your neighbor for the splinter in his eye, take out the log in your eye.

Forgive those who offend or hurt you seventy times seven times.

Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's (tax money) and unto God that which is God's.

When you pray to your heavenly father go into your closet and pray. Do not pray loudly in the streets for all to see.

and there is so much more. the words of Jesus are truly those of a revolutionary.

[mzteris]

6. here's one

Mark 10

17 As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. "Good teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
18 "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good—except God alone. 19You know the commandments: 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, do not defraud, honor your father and mother.'"

20 "Teacher," he declared, "all these I have kept since I was a boy."
21 Jesus looked at him and loved him. "One thing you lack," he said. "Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
22 At this the man's face fell. He went away sad, because he had great wealth.

****

[question everything]

8. Wonderful. Thanks (nt)

[Az]

10. My fave verse to scare a fundie freeper away

Luke 6:30. Just go look it up. The entire chapter is fun for giving them hives. But that one verse can cause them so much cerebral damage its entertaining just watching them squirm.

[mzmolly]

11. "What you do unto the least of these, you do unto me."

"It is easier for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle, than a rich man to enter heaven."

Both are paraphrased of course.

Here is more information on what Jesus said about the poor.

http://www.google.com.ar/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=RNWE,RNWE:2004-45,RNWE:en&q=jesus+and+the+poor

More here:
http://www.voiceofjesus.org/onthepoor.html

[Eric J in MN]

12. The camel quote.

Jesus is quoted as saying "It is as diificult for a rich man to get into heaven as it is for a camel to go through the eye of a needle."

However, a better translation is probably ""It is as diificult for a rich man to get into heaven as it is for a camel-rope to go through the eye of a needle."

[BringEmOn]

13. Luke 16:19-31 (Amplified Bible)

19There was a certain rich man who {habitually} clothed himself in purple and fine linen and reveled and feasted and made merry in splendor every day.

20And at his gate there was {carelessly} dropped down and left a certain utterly destitute man named Lazarus, {reduced to begging alms and} covered with {ulcerated} sores.

21He {eagerly} desired to be satisfied with what fell from the rich man's table; moreover, the dogs even came and licked his sores.

22And it occurred that the man {reduced to} begging died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried.

23And in Hades {the realm of the dead}, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far away, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24And he cried out and said, Father Abraham, have pity and mercy on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.

25But Abraham said, Child, remember that you in your lifetime fully received {what is due you in} comforts and delights, and Lazarus in like manner the discomforts and distresses; but now he is comforted here and you are in anguish.

26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who want to pass from this {place} to you may not be able, and no one may pass from there to us.

27And {the man} said, Then, father, I beseech you to send him to my father's house--

28For I have five brothers--so that he may give {solemn} testimony and warn them, lest they too come into this place of torment.

29But Abraham said, They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear and listen to them.

30But he answered, No, father Abraham, but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent {change their minds for the better and heartily amend their ways, with abhorrence of their past sins}.

31He said to him, If they do not hear and listen to Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be persuaded and convinced and believe {even} if someone should rise from the dead.

[bee]

14. Its very simple...

Main Entry: conservative
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: moderate
Synonyms: bourgeois, cautious, constant, controlled, conventional, die-hard, fearful, firm, fogyish, fuddy-duddy, guarded, hard hat, hidebound, holding to, illiberal, inflexible, middle-of-the-road, not extreme, obstinate, old guard, old-line, orthodox, quiet, red-neck, right, right-wing, sober, stable, steady, timid, traditional, traditionalistic, unchangeable, unchanging, uncreative, undaring, unimaginative, unprogressive, white bread

Antonyms: incautious, left-wing, liberal, progressive, radical, revolutionary

edit to add: Its ours by definition. hehehe
http://thesaurus.reference.com/search?q=conservative

[question everything]

15. Wonderful! LOL.

Still, enjoyed the opportunity to tell them how reactionaries they are, going back to the Middle Ages with their "Intelligent Design."

[Bluerthanblue]

16. "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth."- "To whom

much is given, much will be required".

" And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same.
And if you lend to those from whom you hope to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for he is kind to the ungrateful and the selfish.
Be merciful, even as your Father is merciful."

And His words to the 'rich young ruler'-
" sell everything you have, give the money to the poor and follow me"

there are a myriad more-

The 'Acts' church was communism at it's finest- no wealth- everything shared- all given what they need regardless of their 'worthiness'-

[scarletlib]

18. Speaking to an individual he says in answer to a question about

how to be a good person. He asks what is the greatest commandment and the person replies "To love the Lord God with all your heart, with all your sour and all your might." Jesus agrees and adds "and love your neigbor as youself" Those are his two great commandments.

[Debs]

22. You want real liberal politics?

Read the prophets, like Jeremiah 5 28, 29

Their evil deeds have no limit; they do not plead the case of the fatherless to win it, they do not defend the rights of the poor.
Should I not punish them for this? declares the Lord, Should I not avenge myself on such a nation as this? The prophets are all about social responsibility

[magnolia]

26. Bill Clinton said...

...on Larry King tonight there are 500 times in the New Testement where Jesus says that it is our responsibility to take care of the poor.