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Onlooker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:12 PM
Original message
What are the names of some famous liberal Christians?
Just wondering who else besides Martin Luther King are among the great liberal preachers in any branch of Christianity?
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chalky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. Jimmy Carter. Oh--are you limiting this to preachers?
n/t
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Onlooker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Not just preachers
... but people who are known to be driven more by religion than politics. I think Carter is an example of that.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
36. Yes
He also does a Sunday school class. My town's mayor is sooo much like Mr. Carter. Only thing is he's an indie.
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Melodybe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-05 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #4
126. Hugo Chavez!
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cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. oops, sorry
chalky, we musta posted at the same time...great minds...and all that...
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cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
2. not a preacher
but how 'bout Jimmy Carter? :7
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:14 PM
Original message
Jesus.
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cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
13. yep
I'm not religious, but I would agree there.
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karlrschneider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:33 PM
Response to Original message
43. Some 'liberal' points from JC

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.

Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of
God.

Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for
theirs is the kingdom of heaven.


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cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #43
60. hmmmm
in light of recent events in NOLA...this has a certain something...not sure what....
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adarling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. Jesus
Not to be a smartass but i believe he was a liberal :). There are alot, google christian and liberal, you might find something
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cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #3
68. yep
I would agree he was a liberal too...
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spindoctor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #3
81. Jesus was not a Christian, he was a Jew.
He can, after all, hardly follow himself :)
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Poiuyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #81
115. Jesus was a Jew, but Matthew would be considered a Christian
Matthews teachings were very liberal
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
5. who cares? n/t
SEPARATION OF CHURCH and STATE PLEASE.

Christians do your thing whatever it is, worship how you please but just leave me and our democracy, our constitution, and our laws out of it!

ok?

please!

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Onlooker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. I'm arguing in another forum
I'm arguing in another message board where people seem to be assuming all Christians are right-wing.
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flowomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. you don't need to defend this question....
it's fair and relevant enough
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #9
20. sorry..... i've just had it up to the eye balls with so called Christian
"values" as defined by the domininists and other extremists whose demented psychotic, logic bending delusions have been allowed to hijack the public fora of this country.
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flowomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. well, I'm with ya on that....
this seemed different.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #20
87. Don't confuse Christofascists with True Followers of Christ:
you will know them by their fruits. Or whatever.

Most intelligent folks can tell the two apart easily enough.
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stlsaxman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #20
100. They pray in the front pews, making a mockery of those truly spiritual.
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progdonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #9
66. I think you're looking at it the wrong way...
Edited on Fri Sep-16-05 11:56 PM by progdonkey
You're letting them put you on the defensive. By coming up with famous liberal Christians, you're just providing them with "exceptions that prove the rule." You need to get them on the defensive and ask exactly what parts of Jesus' teachings are conservative. Chapter and Verse. I guarantee 90%--if not all--of their citations will come from the Old Testament, rather than from Jesus.

Don't let them set the terms of the debate. Instead of trying to drum of liberal Christians, force them to show you a conservative Jesus!

:toast:
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I Have A Dream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #66
82. Very good point, progdonkey. It doesn't matter how many...
conservative "Christians" they can name, Jesus said that we'll know God's followers by their fruits.
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #66
85. I think progdonkey is onto something here.
They won't care about Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Jimmy Carter, etc.
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #5
21. So, you'd throw out MLK, Jimmy Carter, Al Gore, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton
etc because they were Christian?
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #5
104. Yeah shame on MLK for bringing Christian principals to government
I just wish he had stayed home and kept his Christian nose out of the government of the South. sarcasm in case someone is very dense
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flowomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
7. Jesse and Al of course
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
8. Was Going to Say Ghandi, but...
that Christian thing got in the way again.

:evilgrin:
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The Traveler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
10. Pierre Teilhard de Chardin
Anthropologist. Evolutionist. Very devout Catholic Priest.
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flowomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. and Bonhoeffer...
Edited on Fri Sep-16-05 11:45 PM by flowomo
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faithnotgreed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #14
45. oh yeah... dietrich bonhoeffer
corrie ten boom

thomas merton

to name a few
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flowomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
11. John XXIII...
if any pope can be considered "liberal" -- in context he sure was.
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chalky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
12. Bishop Tutu.
n/t
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cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. right again
good choice chalky...I'm drawing a blank...
a very good question thread...
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faithnotgreed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #12
47. i love hearing him on american tv - he tells some great truths
good example
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DanCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
17. Jim Wallis and Andrew Greely.
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DanCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
18. Al Sharpton and Rev Jesse Jackson - nt.
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Laughing Mirror Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-05 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #18
133. Ditto
and they're the best Christianity has to offer too.
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cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
19. Now don't laugh y'all
but how 'bout Clinton?
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. He claimed to be Christian, and certainly acted more Christian than Bush
or any number of conservative "Christian" leaders.
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cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. yes, my point exactly
isn't there some quote in the Bible about "works" versus words...not sure...
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. Lots of quotes like that
Jesus claimed there would be false Christians who would lead even the elect astray. When asked how to tell a false Christian, he said "You will know them by their fruits."

Something like that. I'm an atheist, so it's been a while since I read the Bible.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #34
89. There is wisdom in the bible whether or not you believe in a god -
try reading Proverbs. Also if you have a red letter version and just read the red letters (Jesus'words) it filters out a lot of the useless cr--.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #31
41. Yes
James said in his book "faith without works is dead."
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cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #41
56. wow,
amazed at myself that I rememberd that...thanks for the quote...though not religious, I do like a lot of the Bible...
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #25
39. I think Clinton is a baptist
Remember earlier this year he appeared at Billy Graham's thing in NYC and Graham said Clinton should go into preaching and Hillary should be president. But Billy Graham is another one. He's a registered democrat.
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #39
52. Billy Graham endorsed Bush over Gore, so to me
he's not a democrat or a Christian. His anti-semitic comments and his years of lying about them didn't help his image, either.
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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #52
65. have to agree
The way Graham and his church have treated his daughters is despicable
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flowomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #19
28. not much of a liberal in too many ways for my tastes
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cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #28
35. I'm intrigued...
who IS a liberal in your view...
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flowomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. wellstone for one
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cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #40
53. ok
i got ya there...going on with that...
I'm thinking Lieberman might qualify...

"Christian" as being defined as religion maybe is too constrictive..."Christian" as a way of life, a philosophy, an outlook...opens up a new way of looking at things. But as I said I am not religious...so perhaps I should not comment. Spirituality is important to me however...it is just not institutionalized or denominational.
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flowomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. interesting take, though.
not sure how comfortable Joe would be with that. I'm not religious either, though I did go to a Jesuit high school.
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cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #55
63. yikes on the Jesuit thing
bet there's some stories there...
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flowomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. ah, they're mostly all liberals who cudn;t get a regular job
:)
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banjosareunderrated Donating Member (389 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #63
86. i'll affirm what flowomo said...
the jesuits I knew in jesuit high school and jesuit college were devout liberals who only veered away from me on abortion. As a matter of fact, in my H.S., (University of Detroit Jesuit) MOST of the jesuit priests would tell you that the mainstream xtians were fake and nothing more than looters and sadists that tried to incense their parish into hating some person or people just to fill their coffers.

but they believed in peace, science, and philosophy, and, even in a jesuit high school, one of my junior year classes was "Religions of the World" in which we were taught, without prejudice, about most major religious philosophies.

It was their teaching that actually led me away from catholicism, and on more than one occasion, I was congratulated by jesuits for being an atheist because I backed it up.

A lot of Xtian organizations deserve their insane, hateful reps., but the Jesuits don't, imho.

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I Have A Dream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #53
69. You're probably aware that Lieberman is Jewish. I'm only...
mentioning it just in case you weren't. (I wasn't sure what you were saying about "Christian". This may be what you meant.)
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #40
54. Wellstone was a good liberal, and one of my favorites, but so was Clinton.
People condemn him for his compromises and lose sight of what would have happened without them.
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flowomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #54
57. that's the problem...
I don't know what would have happened without them. I sensed and hoped there was a real, committed liberal under there... but so much got lost.
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #57
109. Look at the Gingrich reform package
After the 94 Gingrich sweep of Congress, Clinton's approval rating was in the 30s, and Gingrich was very popular. Gingrich introduced a budget that basically rolled back government to pre-FDR reforms. Clinton took the lead on "reform," hacking away at welfare and social spending enough to look like a reformer, but retaining as much of the old structure as he could. His compromises defeated Gingrich's more aggressive bill.

Look at it this way. If we had a government basically at the level of the Coolidge government, and Clinton introduced the social spending and jobs programs that he managed to save, he'd be the new FDR in terms of liberalism. That's pretty much what he did, by preventing Gingrich from rolling us back to that era.

He also did a lot that was less obvious, like making it easier for states to actually get the assistance they qualified for from the federal government, on welfare and social programs. Reagan and Bush killed a lot of spending programs not by defeating them, but by making it impossible to actually get the money for them. Clinton made this easier.

He was a liberal with a very conservative Congress, and moved us far ahead of where we were. He dropped the poverty rate from 15% to 11%. He raised income levels in every bracket. He made the economy more mobile, so that people could climb out ot their income brackets. All of these have reversed under Bush, and all of those were improvements from Reagan/Bush.

I love the guy. Well, not everything about him. But he was the best we could hope for at the time. He was also the setup pitcher. When he took over people were afraid of liberalism. By moving us closer to it, he was setting the nation up for Gore to move even farther left. That's what we lost when the election was stolen (and it's why I hate Nader almost as badly as I hate Bush).
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wellstone dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-05 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #54
129. wellstone was Jewish.
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wellstone dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-05 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #40
130. as noted below
wellstone was jewish
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insanity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
22. I don't know how he stood politicaly
Darwin was a pastor though.
Also, Dean is a Christian.
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. Darwin was an atheist.
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insanity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #27
61. Read the Voyage of The Beagle
Darwin was infact an Angelican Pastor. Only towards the end of his life did be begin to question faith.
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #61
114. Long before the end of his life.
Darwin was never a pastor. He studied theology to become a pastor, because many naturalists of his time became pastors. It allowed them the time to study nature while receiving a pension. But Darwin never took holy orders.

He claims that he was "orthodox" on his voyage on the Beagle, but that even then he had begun to question his beliefs, and soon lost faith in the Old Testament. By the time he was thirty, he was beginning to question religion to the degree that his fiance asked for reassurances that he was a Christian, so she could meet him in the afterlife. By the time he was forty, over thirty years from his death, he had rejected religion altogether, though he claimed he was agnostic and not atheist.

His life is a journey away from Christianity, not a journey within Christianity, and he was conscious of this even while it was happening. However, since he relied on government pensions and public opinion for his livelihood, he kept his doubts from the public, even holding off publication of his theories for a decade, until he felt the political climate would allow it.
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-05 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #27
125. Darwin was no more an Atheist than Jefferson was
He was a scientist - and I would challenge anyone to show me where he said in 'Origin of the Species" that Man evolved from primates..... he NEVER said it! He stated that further research is warranted.


He is a widely misunderstood scientist. He threw out 'Origin..' because a competitor was almost ready to print.


He may have believed that humans evolved from more primitive primate forms, but he did not publish said beliefs (unless couched).


PS - evolution is the only logical reason for our existance.
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Az Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #22
62. Not quite
Darwin was studying for the clergy before he took his trip. After that he renounced Christianity and was ambiguous about his belief in god. There was a Christian started rumor that a certain Lady Hope was at his deathbed and that he recanted his work and accepted Jesus. But this was refuted by his wife who really was at his deathbed and clearly stated no such person was ever present.
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flowomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
23. name just about any well-known 20th c. liberal politician...
Teddy Kennedy, Hubert Humphrey, Ed Muskie.... they'd largely be Christians of one stripe or another.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #23
46. John Kennedy!
Don't forget him!
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flowomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. well, Bobby too
Edited on Fri Sep-16-05 11:38 PM by flowomo
all them rum-soaked Catlicks. Actually, JFK wasn't much of a liberal in many ways. Bobby was.
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DBoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
24. Cesar Chavez, Dorothy Day
and others
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Tallison Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #24
110. Dorothy Day!
I still have a lifetime subscription to the Catholic Worker.
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JuJu Lazarus Donating Member (18 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
29. Yashua
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DanCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
30. George Foreman and Chris Reeves.
I don't know how he voted in the last election but after readding his book George Foreman has lots of liberal traits.
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:27 PM
Response to Original message
32. Cardinal Bernardin seemed pretty liberal.
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DanCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #32
38. Bernadine was a great man and a liberal thats why they set him up.
Tom Laughlin also a Liberal Christian
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:27 PM
Response to Original message
33. Vincent DePaul
Another Catholic (Saint, actually). He did a bunch with and for the poor. Here's one link from Google:
http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/saintv01.htm
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
37. William Sloane Coffin, Bill Moyers,
Sister Helen Prejean, Bishop John Shelby Spong...
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #37
90. Bishop Spong is GREAT! Love his books.
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DanCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:33 PM
Response to Original message
42. John Kerry, Jfk, and Bruce Springsteen
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papercut Donating Member (80 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #42
48. Bruce Cockburn. Bono.
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DanCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. welcome to DU papercut.
:hi:
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DanCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #42
58. Mick Foley, the New Arch Bishop of CanterBury, Bishop Gene Robbinson,
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DanCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #42
59. Mick Foley, the New Arch Bishop of CanterBury, Bishop Gene Robbinson,
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:35 PM
Response to Original message
44. George McGovern
He is the son of a Wesleyan Methodist minister. He attended Garret Seminary on the campus of Northwestern University near Chicago after learning of the christian social gospel while doing his undergraduate degree at Dakota Wesleyan University. He was briefly a student Methodist minister himself. Deciding later to switch his major at Northwestern University to history. Upon receiving his Phd he taught history for a number of years at Dakota Wesleyan University prior to entering politics. He has always been driven by the belief that the christian calling is a call to work for social justice and peace.
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flowomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #44
51. and Gene McCarthy
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cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
67. Mother Teresa?
Or has anyone mentioned her yet?
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I Have A Dream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #67
71.  She was anti-choice. She may have been liberal on other things.
(I'm not sure.)
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Az Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #71
74. Mixed bag
Not worth starting a flame war. Let it slide.
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cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #71
79. didn't know her view on choice
Or Jesus' either for that matter...just going with the "works" thing again...don't think abortion probably figured much into her life...

She certainly lived her beliefs...and that counts...
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Az Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #79
80. There are complexities
Suffice to say that Theresa has a complex background.
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cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #80
84. life is complex
I think we are all more than our stand on one issue...I am pro-choice, but damn...my life cannot compare to hers in what she has given to others...not even close....

I understand what you are saying though...I guess we have to define "liberal" and where does that take us????

Oh dear, it is so late and this liberal is taking herself to bed...
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I Have A Dream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #84
108. Without a doubt, she was an amazing Christian. The OP...
asked for examples of "liberal" Christians. I'm not saying that she's not worthy of our complete respect. However, she WAS against abortion and even birth control. Therefore, I'd find it difficult to call her liberal based upon my personal definition of the word.
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I Have A Dream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 12:12 AM
Response to Original message
70. Nelson Mandela and Archbishop Desmond Tutu n/t
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banana republican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 12:16 AM
Response to Original message
72. THERE NUMBERS ARE LEGION
Edited on Sat Sep-17-05 12:45 AM by banana republican
1) REINHOLD NIEBUHR (MORAL MAN & IMMORAL SOCIETY; CHARLES SCRIBNER'S SONS; NY, NY; 1932)
2) S. KIERKEGAARD ( JUST ABOUT ANYTHING HE WROTE BY NUMEROUS PUBLISHERS (MOST RECOMMENDED ( SOCRATES CONCEPT OF IRONY)
2) MARTIN BUBER (A RABI RECOMMENDED BY REINHOLD NIEBUHR) ( I & THOU; CHARLES SCRIBNER'S SONS; 1958)
3) FR. THOMAS KEATING (OPEN MIND, OPEN HEART, THE CONTEMPLATIVE DIMENSION OF THE GOSPEL; AMITY HOUSE; 1986)

OTHERS
PAUL TILLICH
MARTIN LUTHER ( NOT MARTIN LUTHER KING BUT THE ORIGINAL IN THE 1500'S)
DIETRICH BONNEHOFFER (KILLED BY ADOLPH HITLER IN THE ASSINATION ATTEMPT)
ST. AUGUSTINE
MOST OLD TESTAMENT PROPHETS
ALL OF THE CHURCH FATHERS (E.G. 100AD TO ABOUT 200AD)



ON EDIT: SPELLING

ON EDIT 2: NOT LIBERAL CHRISTIANS JUST CHRISTIANS....
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charlie and algernon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
73. Sister Mary Chittister, Bill Moyer
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Kablooie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 12:20 AM
Response to Original message
75. Dodridge Derry, Tryphosa Hoit and Vorntuger Jope
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I Have A Dream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 12:28 AM
Response to Original message
76. Martin Sheen & Leo Tolstoy n/t
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Sugarcoated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #76
78. Johnny Cash and
Jane Fonda
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 12:33 AM
Response to Original message
77. woody guthrie would be a good one
though some may doubt his christian cred. He definitely saw the dark side of organized religion, but also understood the true nature of the christian philosophy, and wrote many songs that reflected that.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 12:49 AM
Response to Original message
83. Ratzinger!
Okay, okay, I'm kidding.

:evilgrin:

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HuskerDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 01:11 AM
Response to Original message
88. Liberal Christians know that what the televangelists do is
more or less blasphamy. In order to become famous, you have to have a large, multi-million dollar operation ala the dozen or so famous televangelists. To do this would be against the teachings of Christ, thus there aren't many famous liberal Christian pastors.
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no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 06:13 AM
Response to Original message
91. 1. JOHN SHELBY SPONG
Edited on Sat Sep-17-05 06:34 AM by no_hypocrisy
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bertha katzenengel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #91
105. in the same vein: Mel White of Soulforce
gay man, ghostwriter for Jerry Falwell (before he came out, of course)

leads http://www.soulforce.org which is dedicated to getting Christian churches to see that God loves and accepts EVERYONE
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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 06:31 AM
Response to Original message
92. FDR may not have looked like it, but he had deep faith.
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Freedomfried Donating Member (684 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 07:00 AM
Response to Original message
93. Ted Kaczynski ?
If not, I posted his name cause I like him anyway.
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Tallison Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #93
111. WTF?
Care to expound?
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 07:56 AM
Response to Original message
94. Louisa May Alcott, most of the New England Transcendentalists
Very liberal for that time, anyway.
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jokerman93 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 07:58 AM
Response to Original message
95. Here's some famous christians who have/had a clue
Edited on Sat Sep-17-05 08:13 AM by jokerman93
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 08:00 AM
Response to Original message
96. Many erly 20th Century progressives
Sorry I'm not erudite enough to give any specific names off the top of my head.

But the progresive reform movements of the 19th and early 20th Century were often driven by people who saw social justice as a component of Christianity.
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ultraist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #96
107. Progressive reform movements throughout history...led by liberals
All major progressive movements have been led by liberals, many of whom were "driven by people who saw social justice as a component of Christianity."

http://www.rense.com/general34/lifeand.htm

Frederick Douglas:

This is not how Frederick interpreted Christianity. For him it meant the equality of all people before God and deliverance from bondage in this life. Religion taught Frederick to value himself, love others, and work to achieve freedom. His religious faith was life affirming and gave him both comfort and a degree of personal autonomy. In his later years he would have little use for organized religion because of the hypocrisy of many professed believers, who both went to church and supported slavery. Nevertheless, throughout his life, Christianity's ideals helped inspire his work and guide his actions
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anarch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 08:04 AM
Response to Original message
97. Yeshua bar Yoseph? n/t
Edited on Sat Sep-17-05 08:05 AM by anarch
On Edit: I guess, strictly speaking, he was a Jew.
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stlsaxman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 08:11 AM
Response to Original message
98. James Cromwell "That'll do, pig"
Wasn't sure if he's he's christian, but i just read he's in a TV movie about John Paul II. Chances are good he's Catholic.

He's been an anti-war activist since the Viet Nam war.
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etherealtruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 08:14 AM
Response to Original message
99. Evangelical Christians and quakers led the abolitionist movement
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Moosepoop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 08:26 AM
Response to Original message
101. John Conyers is a Baptist.
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chat_noir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #101
103. Would Jesus Love a Liberal?
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/liberalchristians.htm

Haven't checked out all of the many links, but I'm sure you can find more names at this site.

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La Coliniere Donating Member (581 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
102. Dr. Bruce Prescott
he's the leader of the Mainstream Baptists of Oklahoma and the president of the Oklahoma chapter of Americans for the Separation of Church and State. He's a Baptist minister who has a weekly radio address and he writes a blog: mainstreambaptist.blogspot.com. I 'm amazed at how liberal this guy is. Take a look; not all Baptisits are of the Southern Conference ilk. Praise the Lord.
Peace
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ultraist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 08:38 AM
Response to Original message
106. Susan B. Anthony, women's suffragist, Quaker
There are a lot of famous abolotiionists who were Quakers, as well as child rights activists.

Quakers have been instrumental in ending child labor, women's rights, civil rights, and gay rights.

Famous Quakers, includes three signers of the Constitution:
http://www.adherents.com/largecom/fam_quaker.html
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Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
112. Most of the founding Fathers
Many of them thought the morality of Jesus was wonderful but they thought he was human and didn't buy into all the supernatural stuff. Too bad most Americans are not aware of this. Our education system sucks.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/jesus/jefferson.html
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I Have A Dream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #112
122. As you're probably aware, most of them weren't Christians per se...
based upon the definition of Christians for Evangelical Christians. They were deists.

There's a very interesting article about this at the link below:

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20050221/allen

Evangelical Christians believe that one is only a Christian if one believes that Jesus is divine and if that person has accepted Jesus as his/her Lord & savior. This is certainly not the case with many of the "Founding Fathers". Using the religious right's definition of Christianity, the "Founding Fathers" wouldn't be Christians. I think many in the religious right would be shocked about this.
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Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #122
123. Who gave Evangelical Christians the power to decide who is Christian?
Edited on Sat Sep-17-05 11:20 PM by Quixote1818
I agree with most of what you said but I think too much emphasis has been put on the Evangelical definition of Christianity.


They were Christians in that they deeply admired the moral teachings of Jesus and thought them to be the greates the world had ever seen.


In the book Jefferson and Religion by Eugene R. Sheridan, Jefferson’s beliefs are summed up in this way: “Jefferson’s demythologized version of Christianity, like so many other aspects of his life and thought, resists easy historical categories. It was anti-Trinitarian in its concept of God, Christian in its acceptance of the morality of Jesus, skeptical in its rejection of biblical revelation and church dogma, deistic in its conviction that the clergy had deliberately corrupted the pure doctrines of Jesus to serve their selfish purposes, rationalistic in its assumption that human reason was the only valid source of religious truth, and humanistic in its equation of religion with morality. In the end Jefferson probably best described his peculiarly eclectic faith when he observed of himself: “I am of a sect by myself, as far as I know.”

I am not much into labels and it's obvious Jefferson wasn't either but it pisses me off that Evangelicals think they can define what a true Christian is. Who are they to judge? I wish the media would quit giving their views so much weight.
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I Have A Dream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-05 07:41 AM
Response to Reply #123
127. My point is that it's usually the Evangelical Christians who use...
Edited on Sun Sep-18-05 07:46 AM by I Have A Dream
the supposed beliefs of the "Founding Fathers" as an argument for having Evangelical Christianity be the focus of American life. However, the "Founding Fathers" weren't Christians according to Evangelical Christians' beliefs. My guess is that the person who the OP was debating was an Evangelical Christian because they're usually the ones who say that there are no liberal Christians.

By the way, I'm NOT an Evangelical Christian, and I'm a Christian. I don't need to be convinced. I always enjoy telling right wing Christians that the "Founding Fathers" wouldn't be Christians according to them because it takes the wind out of their argument, and they're ALWAYS surprised.
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Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
113. JFK, RFK, RFK Jr. Wes Clark
JFK use to use Bible quotes all the time in his speeches about helping the poor.
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #113
116. Would you count..
Mr Fred Rogers...I know he was a leader for children. He made everyone's day in the neighbourhood beautiful. You can't truly love and be concerned for kids and NOT be a flaming liberal (or take Christ's word to heart and not be liberal either).
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I Have A Dream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-05 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #116
128. Based upon the article below, I'd consider him to be a liberal.
Edited on Sun Sep-18-05 07:55 AM by I Have A Dream
http://www.tuuc.org/religiousbroadcasting.htm

(I haven't read the whole thing, but I thought that you might find it interesting.)
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StellaBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
117. Two
John Shelby Spong


Hugo Chavez



:D
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Aristus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
118. This one may surprise you: William Jennings Bryan.
He was a conservative Christian, but a social liberal. My liking for him went up when I found that out.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
119. Brennan Manning, Tony Campolo, Daniel Berrigan, Thomas Morton
Phillip Berrigan, Walter Wink.... there are many....
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MissMarple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
120. Martin Marty...a personal favorite.
He has a great book on churches in early America. :bounce:
http://illuminos.com/mem/memMain.html
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dcfirefighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-05 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
121. Henry George
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Lisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-05 01:22 AM
Response to Original message
124. Tommy Douglas (leader of North America's first socialist government)
Baptist minister, and a key member of the CCF (forerunner of the New Democratic Party) and when he was elected Premier of Saskatchewan, brought in universal public health care. (This was later copied by the other provinces.)

By the way, he was also Kiefer Sutherland's maternal grandfather.
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-05 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #124
132. And, for what it's worth, many of the leaders of the CCF-NDP.
Stanley Knowles was also a minister, as is Bill Blaikie.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-05 08:14 AM
Response to Original message
131. Reinhold Niebuhr
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinhold_Niebuhr

People forget that there was a massive Christian socialist movement in this country throughout most of the 20th century. Niebuhr's thought and teaching was also instrumental for the civil rights movement.
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liberalitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-05 08:38 AM
Response to Original message
134. A Jesus was a buddha: a buddhist monk in the 16th century
was listening to two students talk about christ.... He said to them..... I don't know who he was..... but I know that he was a buddha.

Where was jesus betweent he ages of 12 and 28?
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mia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-05 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
135.  C.S. Lewis (1898–1963) comes to mind
I know that he's claimed by both Fundamentalists and Liberal Christians, but feel that he's more Liberal...



Quotation for Sunday, September 18, 2005:
©The C. S. Lewis Company -- used with permission

For humans must not be allowed to notice that all great moralists are sent by the Enemy, not to inform men, but to remind them, to restate the primeval moral platitudes against our continual concealment of them.

The Screwtape Letters



“I am a democrat because I believe in the Fall of Man ... Mankind is so fallen that no man can be trusted with unchecked power over his fellows.”

One of the greatest Christian thinkers of the twentieth century, C.S. Lewis was a respected scholar and teacher at Oxford University for 29 years and then a professor of Medieval and Renaissance literature at Cambridge University to the end of his career. An atheist throughout his early life, he adopted theism in 1929 and converted to Christianity in 1931. Although a talented debater and writer-Lewis wrote many fictional, didactic, and devotional works in addition to his sizable academic production-he is not known as a political commentator. He avoided partisan commitments; indeed, he turned down a title offered him by Winston Churchill, thinking his critics would use it to accuse him of being an anti-Leftist propagandist.


C. S. Lewis—Who He Was & What He Wrote

The name “C. S. Lewis” usually brings forth a number of accolades customarily used to describe him— “Brilliant, great Christian, great mind, great apologist, greatest lay champion in the 20th century.” His book sales, still today, remain over two million dollars annually, half of which come from the sales of his famous fantasy series, The Chronicles of Narnia.

Who is this man, and what were his beliefs that he should be touted as such a monumental Christian? C.S. Lewis (1898-1963) was a college professor, and author, and had his own radio broadcast for many years. He was an atheist, who converted to theism, and later professed Christianity. His most notable work, for which he has won much acclaim, is Mere Christianity. The author basically describes the book’s intent as an effort to set forth the fundamentals that form the basis of Christianity, excluding all doctrines and opinions that are not integral to Christianity (or, at least his definition of Christianity), thus, the name Mere Christianity. The exclusion of all such doctrines allows for the inclusion of all faiths.

This book has received raves from the liberal Christian press as a great apologetic work...
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