Young Marines Are An Outrage

[Maine Mary]

This as a letter to the editor in my local paper. Does anyone else think it's innappropriate to dress little kids up in military costumes for a public event? I can't really explain why, but the whole image bothers me somehow



Saturday, September 17, 2005
Young Marines are an outrage


My wife and I were leaving the recent Franco-American Festival at Colby College when we saw an outrageous incident in the parking lot.

The festival was great, the food and music were excellent. However, the lasting impression we took away was of the Young Marines, kids dressed up in warlike costumes of camouflage and shiny helmets doing what the city must have deputized them to do -- direct traffic, which added credibility to the nation's military-recruitment agenda. As we were walking to our car, my wife addressed one of these children, who looked to be about 10 years old. She warned him that if he goes on to become a Marine, he could be killed.

If I ever had a doubt about my suspicion of their agenda, it was removed when the child ran immediately to report this to the adult leader who stopped our car from leaving the lot while he gave my wife a Marine-style lecture on how wrong she was. We were able to drive away without further incident, glad to just get away from such a negative place.

I think the moms and dads of the festival organizers who gave their lives opposing fascism in the 1940s would have been outraged, as well, to have witnessed such behavior today at a Franco-American Festival.

The Rev. Ken Smith

http://morningsentinel.mainetoday.com/view/letters/1954303.shtml

[TallahasseeGrannie]

1. Great letter... another point to ponder

I am an art teacher. I have taught literally thousands of children in 34 years.

One give of teaching art is that little boys draw tanks, guns, and war when given the chance.

I'm not talking about necessarily children of RW fundies. These are just as likely to be children of peace activists!

I usually take the opportunity to talk about how art and creation is the opposite of war and destruction. But it has always fascinated me. Are we doomed as a species?

[rodeodance]

3. terrible--yet I do not think the wife should have said what she did to a

10 y.o.

...AS we were walking to our car, my wife addressed one of these children, who looked to be about 10 years old. She warned him that if he goes on to become a Marine, he could be killed.

[Ms. Toad]

12. At what age do you believe it is appropriate

to introduce children to reality?

By 10, in the Vietnam war era, I certainly knew soldiers were being killed.

My daughter has known and visited her uncle on death row since birth, and knew at least by age 5 generally what was convicted of doing, and what the state intended to do to him.

As a teenager She now occasionally posts on DU, refuses to participate in the daily loyalty oath ritual (pledge) at school - but has thought through it enough to decide that out of respect for those who choose to participate she will stand during the ritual, and regularly (since age 12, at least, perhaps earlier) debates social issues with posters on other boards with folks closer to her own age. I do not believe she would be participating in these socially engaged activities if she had been sheltered until sometime after age 10.

It is my strong belief that children who grow up in a vacuum are much more likely to mimic the bubble president as adults - and I don't think that is healthy for our children.

[MADem]

79. Better to talk to the parents, but then, they wouldn't get it either

Some people are obtuse.

But I agree with you, the kid is probably just doing what his parents tell him to do...that outfit probably has after school programs, and it is cheaper than daycare or a nanny.

[oblivious]

4. It may just be an American thing.

I haven't noticed this preference among Canadian or Chinese children, where I've taught.

[opihimoimoi]

8. in one word......Y E S , , , , , We are doomed D O O M E D

It will be all our fault for not getting good leaders in there

[Marr]

77. I've heard that starts about the same time that kids become aware

of gender. I suspect it's purely social, as society encourages little boys to identify war with being male.

Most of those little tank artists grow up to do something constructive.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

102. Yes, they do grow up

to be something constructive, for the most part. I am fortunate enough to have taught in the same community for many years so I DO see that. But sometimes I do wonder where it comes from.

[fujiyama]

101. It's a violent society

When I was young I used to do thhe same thing.

I don't know what it is with little kids and swords, guns, tanks, fighter jets, and other destructive weapons and machinery.

But then again, it was a reflection of the TV shows I saw as a kid - GI Joe, He-Man, etc. and later on the video games we played.

[theHandpuppet]

2. How about camo outfits for toddlers and infants?

Yep, I was in a store several months ago when I saw a woman carrying a toddler dressed completely in military camo, complete with an American flag patch. A couple of folks stopped her to say how cute the little girl looked in battle fatigues and she replied that she was getting another camo outfit for her, one that sported little pink ribbons down the seams.

This society's infatuation with violence, killing and militarism is chilling.

[gratuitous]

51. All part of our national mythical belief

No, our national religion isn't Christianity; not even close. Our real national myth is the belief in redemptive violence, the idea that we will end our troubles, solve our problems, and defeat our enemies by shooting, bombing, torpedoing, blasting and annihilating them.

Where do we get this belief? I don't rightly know. But I do know that it's drummed into us 24-7. Every troop must be honored, every military death creates another fallen hero. And we must spend over a billion dollars a day, every single day, holidays and Sundays included, on the personnel and materiel of war. We flower it up with nice phrases: national security, national defense, a strong America. But all it really is is making war.

And it spills over into so many areas of life: Someone cuts you off in traffic? Boy, would you like to kick his ass. The neighbor's playing his stereo too loud? Grab a bat and go have a chat. We bristle with hostility, swift to be offended, slow to be mollified.

And somewhere, someone is making a huge pile of money off of all this anger and violence. And he just laughs at toddlers in camouflage onesies and tots up another pile of dough.

[MADem]

80. It is a huge market, get yer warbaby accessories here!

http://www.nextag.com/baby-camouflage/search-html

Sick fucks!!!

[theHandpuppet]

87. Wow -- that was pretty sick!

I thought the lace-trimmed kiddie camo in the Cabela's catalog was bad, but that site beats it by a country mile.

[bigbrother05]

5. No big surprise there

Right out of the Nazi Handbook.

[Boomer]

6. I can beat that

I was at a restaurant the southern region of Virginia, when I saw a woman who had dressed her INFANT in camouflage fatigues. And she was burbling on and on how cute they were to a friend.

[cornermouse]

7. Question.

Why did they sit there and let the leader deliver a lecture? Why didn't they either drive away or if they were blocked by other cars, roll up the window, or just flat out tell him to bug off?

[cwydro]

9. yeah

that's what I wondered....

[pretzel4gore]

10. ever heard of cameras?

'pictures are worth a thousand words'
:)

[Maine Mary]

11. Who? Me?

Or the couple who was actually there?

I agree. They should have taken pics though.

[pretzel4gore]

54. yeah the couple...

too bad they never went back to photo this...even a rightwing militarist nation like usa would be shocked to see young kids being conditioned so openly..

[KC_25]

13. as an Arny VET

and Army Reservist,
I have to say that I like the young marines program
It is an afterschool program, that gives kids something to do, teaches them discipline, helps to keep them physically in shape, and keeps them doing things within the community.

[0007]

17. ...keeps them doing things within the community, like ratting on neighbors



[KC_25]

18. ratting on neighbors?

[Lars39]

21. It's a conveyor belt to gain cannon fodder.

[KC_25]

22. YEah sure

Hey kids lets go rock climbing, rappelling fishing etc..

then next week we will toss grenades!

[0007]

26. The little junior detective are so cute, 'eh?

[KC_25]

27. IF you do not like it..

keep your kids out of it. Seriously.

IF you feel that all children should not do it, get ahold of your congressman...etc and tell them to do away with it.

Meanwhile, those parents that wish to give their kids something constructive to do, physical activity, and some community activity at the same time will do so.

It is voluntary. no more no less.

and you till never elaborated on your ratting on neighbors remark.

[0007]

35. Ratting on neighbors remark, must have indeed hit a sore

spot,'eh? LOL!!

Congress have nothing to do with cretins that want to dress up their children to make believe. Are you kidding me?

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[0007]

39. You have no idea! So just stay curious & believe what you

want.

You know what they say when one assumes, don't you?

[KC_25]

42. so elaborate

show your proof, enlighten me.

[0007]

50. The tread starter should be enough to enlighten YOU.

you should read it? Get Serious about proof and enlightenment.

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((gong)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))


That's all folks

[KC_25]

52. what 10 y/yo kid

isnt going to tell any group instructor that someone told them they are going to get killed?

[Lars39]

56. What "instructor" is going to risk a 10 year old's life by having

him directing traffic?

[KC_25]

57. yeah

4-h
boyscouts
girl scouts
others

never have kids direct traffic in a freaking parking lot

[Lars39]

59. Where I live they don't. It's considered dangerous for adults,

let alone for kids that don't have the same physical presence.

[KC_25]

61. well

where I live they do, have, and more than likely continue to do so.
It is a parking lot, not a main freeway

[LeftyMom]

86. I was in girl scouts, campfire and 4H

never once did I direct traffic. Every one of those organizatiosn had greater concern for my safety than to leave me in a hot dusty parking lot where I could suffer a heat-related illness (big possiblity where I live,) abducted or hit by a car.

[KC_25]

104. Oh please

Directing traffic in a parking lot huge risk eh? Adult volunteers all over the place supervising.

When I played pony league baseball, we directed traffic in parking lots for the games, and fundraisers all the time.

[KC_25]

38. it is a not for profit organization

what lawmakers are in charge of that tax status if not congress?

are YOU kidding me?

[Lars39]

49. A non-profit organization that reimburses Young Marines for expenses

incurred. I can tell you right now that Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts don't do reimbursements.

Reimbursements seem to be the carrot in this case.

[KC_25]

105. where do they get reimbursed?

and with what?

"The Young Marines strengthens the lives of America's youth by teaching the importance of self-confidence, academic achievement, honoring our veterans, good citizenship, community service, and a healthy, drug-free lifestyle. Young Marines learn new skills, and earn rank. They earn ribbons in areas such as CPR, swimming, map reading, drug prevention training, conservation, first aid, academic achievement, community service and physical fitness."

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KC_25]

106. I am still in shock

I call this guy on his accusation, and my message keeps getting deleted?
I thought the burden of proof was on the accuser? Seems freepish to go the other way.

[Squatch]

109. Forget it, man...

I've hit an alert after a member called me "asiatic", a blatantly racist and derogatory term. That post still stands.

[KC_25]

110. Well, I am at a loss...

The horror that these kids are being taught in the Young Marines.

"The Young Marines strengthens the lives of America's youth by teaching the importance of self-confidence, academic achievement, honoring our veterans, good citizenship, community service, and a healthy, drug-free lifestyle. Young Marines learn new skills, and earn rank. They earn ribbons in areas such as CPR, swimming, map reading, drug prevention training, conservation, first aid, academic achievement, community service and physical fitness.

Young Marines make a pledge to be drug-free and work hard to encourage family, friends, and schoolmates to share in this commitment. "

[Squatch]

111. We can't have an organization with those kinds of values

running around unchecked. Won't somebody please think of the children?

[Lars39]

30. It's called conditioning them for military life.

Get a kid used to modeling a soldier, take away financial help to get to college, take away any kind of job that might pay a living wage...and chances are great he/she is going to join up as an adult.

Have you forgotten your history? Look up Hitler youth.

[sandnsea]

28. Never heard of it, is it new?

I'm shocked, it's revolting. Beyond revolting. I can't even believe it. Most men who've been in war wouldn't want any little kid glorifying it. How old are these kids?

[KC_25]

29. it isn't glorifying anything

it gives kids something to do other than hang in streets...


http://www.theyoungmarines.org/

[sandnsea]

41. Got kids?

How could you possibly believe that impressionable little kids aren't being unduly influenced by this kind of organization. Frankly, it takes a pretty sick mind to think 8 year olds ought to associate themselves with killing machines. And that's no slam against the military, that's the reality of the purpose which those in the military are quick to point out to any "pacifist bleeding heart".

[KC_25]

48. got kids

12 year vet
Iraq vet

[sandnsea]

53. Get some new interests

Your kids deserve better. Sorry to be harsh, but damn, you don't stick 8 year olds in military school or the kiddie marines.

[KC_25]

55. I will do what I wish with my kids

Thank you, for your concern however.

[Lars39]

33. They can sign up at age 8.

:puke:

[KC_25]

36. Yeah

to learn how to swim, and fish and hike

you don't like it keep your kids out of it.

[pretzel4gore]

58. 1/2 the entire world's military budget=usa!

theoretically, there's a book of matches that, were you to strike one, would flare up so hot it would, in effect, burn off the entire global atmosphere......instead of this military stuff (christ, quite a few of us go through life hoping NOT to kill anyone!) why not issue such matches to everbody on earth? that would teach discipline etc :)

[Lars39]

63. I've read by next year the US military budget was going to *equal*

the rest of all the other countries' military budgets.

[pretzel4gore]

81. it's so silly, they hide the fact

if the people knew this, surely they'd think that someone is playing a congame on them! and it isn't obl or arabs or commies or even xians, it's thieves ie conmen (in jail, conmen are considered lower then skin beefs; child molestors etc...because trust is essential to normal living, and conmen prosper by exploiting trust) yet conmen run most american institutions

[cornermouse]

69. I thought that was what their parents are supposed to do...

Engage them in clubs (something to do and doing things within the community) and after school sports (discipline and physical activity). It seems more healthy than putting them into the military at that young of an age.

Do you disagree?

[KC_25]

107. I thought that by allowing them to

participate in groups like this,
parents were doing that.

Are you all against the CAP (Civil Air Patrol) as well?

[Solo_in_MD]

14. The Young Marines are something between an Boy Scouts and

and after school JROTC program. Participation is voluntary, and is an alternative to the streets for some.

[cynatnite]

32. My daughter is in the Jr. Navy ROTC program at her high school

It's a really good program that has done her a lot of good.

[sandnsea]

44. Should have started her at 8

She'd have quit school and been in Iraq by now.

There's a difference between high school and 8 years old, it has something to do with choice.

[cynatnite]

70. These are ten year old kids...what makes you think they didn't decided?

Your argument is shit.

[sandnsea]

76. They start at 8

But even a ten year old doesn't have the capability to fully appreciate what the military means, particularly in the US. It's kind of like those who say a 13 year old can truly have consentual sex, they don't have the life experience to begin to understand the long term ramifications. It's sad this country even has a group like this, I thought we were moving away from the idea of military school and militarism of our children. One more gift from George Bush I guess.

[cynatnite]

78. It was around long before georgie...way before him

Let's keep this in perspective. These are volunteer organizations that are NOT indoctrinating kids as much as you'd like to believe.

These organizations have a lot of value such as teaching them about helping others and responsibility.

I can't believe the level of ignorance on this thread.

[sandnsea]

83. Enjoy your militarism

But don't wonder why this country is so violent.

[cynatnite]

84. blaming the military for a violent country is lame and shallow...

there are far more reasons than having a military...which this country has ALWAYS had.

I guess it would be easier than to actually look at the root causes of violence which happens even in non-military environments.

:sarcasm:

[0007]

15. Hitler had children brainwashed also!

[tuckessee]

16. The military..........

As someone once said.......
"The military is the only place where you can die for a living."

[RiDuvessa]

19. Honestly,

I really don't think it's proper for someone to tell a ten-year-old kid they don't even know that if they join the Marines they will die.

[KC_25]

20. well at least if you do tell them that

tell them that if they have promiscuous sex they could get AIDs or an STD.

If they do drugs they could OD and die
If they smoke they could get lung cancer
IF they drive to fast they could kill themselves or someone else...

if they don't watch both directions when they cross the street they could get hit by a car


etc etc

[Stuckinthebush]

23. Yes, all very reckless things as well

good point

[KC_25]

25. ooops

self delete

[uncle ray]

43. but nobody's offering to pay them for those activities

and besides, you can look both ways before crossing the street, you can make safe sex decisions and decisions regarding drugs and smoking. driving fast is a choice. once the military has you, they OWN you, you cannot choose to get shot or not get shot. don't buy into the koolaid salesmans B.S.

[KC_25]

45. you can make a choice to

join the marines or not

[uncle ray]

65. it's not much of a choice when it's drilled into you since being a baby.

[KC_25]

103. Drilled into since being a baby?

What about all those that never joined the military and go out and murder people?
What about those that grew up in loving families and become sociopaths?
What about those that have been taught right from wrong, and still choose wrong?

My stance is that these kids are doing something other than gangs, drugs, vandalism, other things that kids do to get themselves into trouble.
Why are you against that?
Would you rather that they vegged in front of a TV, video game, or hang out on street corners and get introduced first hand to gang violence?
Boy Scouts wear uniforms, they perform community service, and they do alot of the same activities that these guys are doing. Guess what, if you attain the rank of eagle scout, you can join the service as an E-3 instead of E-1. I do not think that the young marines have that kind of incentive.

[sandnsea]

46. Gosh WE DO

We have all kinds of programs in the schools that tell kids all of these things. So we should probably add the dangers of a militaristic society to the list.

[cynatnite]

24. Telling a ten year old kid he's going to be killed????

Sorry, I think she was wrong for saying it. I wouldn't want my kid told that.

[nonconformist]

95. I *have* a 10 year old son.

I also have a 7 year old son.

They both know that if they join the military, they run a risk of being killed and being in a position where they will have to kill others, even innocent people. And my husband is a veteran!

[natrat]

31. the military sucks...there i said it

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KC_25]

47. so a lurking freeptard can post that

a duer said the military sucks


but they won't see another Duers response to that.

Classic

[0007]

60. As one vet to another (I'm Korean war vet) your taking this

whole thing way to personal. I thought marines were taught to be a little less sensitive. When you attack another DUer, with a "Fuck You" you'll alway find your post deleted. Then you got balls enough to write, Classic like everyone is against you.

We are not against you, but the action.

[pretzel4gore]

75. welcome to DU KC-25

in case noone else did it, i will :)....btw you do realize that, as someone once said 'war is politics by another means' and 'war is a failure of diplomacy' and 'thank god war's so awful or we shall love it' etc.....all of which say that few things men do collectively create so much waste as war.... now, even 2 generations ago a good drawn out mass death fight was ok; no one got hurt but those too dense to get outta the way....today, however, war really isn't fighting: it's push button murder by those with the most junk (junkies) and junk cost big money....you can judge who is the strongest by their budgets, and by the infastructure able to maintain the budgets etc. in a way, a mere soldier no longer really means anything: force is so massive to be in any military is to put your life in other's hands, and incompetent hands they're almost 100 percent certain to be (re: war is a failure of diplomacy).....a kid would do better to learn language, music or philosophy, which require rushless discipline and sure keep students of these subjects off the streets!
also, the 'war' in iraq (or afghanistan) isn't a war..it's a military action imposing one gang of thugs on an innocent people who're defended by either themselves in adhoc actions, or another gang of thugs...

[Squatch]

62. Are you freaking kidding?

If a strange adult told my kid he was going to die, I wouldn't give them a "Marine-style" lecture. They would get a "Marine-style" beating.

Just another case of a nosy, pretentious asshole who seeks any opportunity to make a political statement, even if it involves chastizing a child performing a community service.

Yeah...directing traffic = fascism.

[KC_25]

64. Thank YOU

[uncle ray]

67. so why camo and helmets instead of a nice officers uniform?

or even better, some blaze orange jackets so they don't get run over?

[Squatch]

72. I find nothing wrong with their choice in clothing.

[0007]

68. Re-read the article and you'll find what was indeed said.

And how do you give a woman a "Marine-style" beating? Do you use a open hand or a close fist? Or do you use a 2x4 and beat 'em senseless? Or do marines use just the boots?

"could" and "was" are very far apart.

[Squatch]

71. Whatever way to get the point across that you do not

verbally accost the child of another.

[0007]

89. The Armed Service recruiters should follow your advise. It is damn good.

[Squatch]

90. Any stranger who scares my child that way will receive

the beating of a lifetime.

[0007]

92. An intelligent & responsible parent wouldn't have their child

in that position in the first place. Get a grip!

[Squatch]

93. And what position is that? Shit, I thought the kid was

performing a community service.

You're absolutely right! Kids shouldn't be doing that sort of stuff. They should be planted squarley in front of their X-Boxes engorging themselves on Coke and Twinkies.

[Name removed]

98. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Squatch]

100. OK...

Asiatic:

A·si·at·ic ( P ) Pronunciation Key (zh-tk, -sh-, -z-)

adj.
Often Offensive. An Asian.

Usage Note: As with Oriental, the use of Asiatic in referring to the peoples and cultures of Asia sounds conspicuously dated in contemporary American English, tending to evoke the prejudicial and offensive stereotypes of an earlier era. The preferred ethnic term is now clearly Asian. In most other contexts, however, as in Asiatic Russia or the Asiatic elephant, the term remains a neutral geographic descriptor that need not automatically be replaced with Asian. See Usage Note at Oriental.

[KC_25]

108. It is not an article

it is a LTTE.
Not exactly unbiased in the deliverly. not even written, by the OP, if I am not mistaken.

[cynatnite]

74. Agree!!

Just because a kid is a part of something that could be considered part of that horrible 'military' that gets bashed so much here at DU doesn't make them little hitlers.

Oh, and lets not forget those brainwashing uniforms :sarcasm:

Some people see 'propaganda' everywhere. :eyes:

[Arugula Latte]

66. This kid probably only hears one side

about the military. I think you were doing him a favor by letting him in on the realities. You may have planted a seed in this kid's head.

I know that when I was a kid of about 10 I saw a liberal bumper sticker that started to open up my eyes to some of the conservative propaganda I was hearing. It made me realize there was more to most issues than the mainstream stuff I had been fed.

[onager]

73. Other cultures? Nah, they don't glorify this stuff...

If you ever visit Chapultepec in Mexico City, you will walk directly under a huge, Diego Rivera-style mural of a kid appearing to fall on your head while wrapped in the Mexican flag:

Los Niños Héroes (the "Boy Heroes" or "Heroic Cadets") were six teenage military cadets who died defending Mexico City's Chapultepec Castle (then serving as the Mexican army's military academy) from invading U.S. forces in the 13 September 1847 Battle of Chapultepec.

Their commanders, General Nicolás Bravo and General José Mariano Monterde, had ordered them to fall back from Chapultepec but the cadets did not; instead, they resisted the invaders until they were killed, with popular legend maintaining that the last survivor leapt from Chapultepec Castle wrapped in the Mexican flag to prevent it from being taken by the enemy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ni%C3%B1os_H%C3%A9roes

BTW, those ninos at Chapultepec were fighting U.S. Marines, who lost about 90% of their officers and NCO's in the battle. The kids must have been very good shots.

[raysr]

82. With any luck

that same kid will get blown away upon arrival in Iraq. Don't support the troops, they asked for it! Don't give me the economic horseshit angle either, if they weren't pumped up about killing "ragheads" they wouldn't be there.

[Nigel_Tufnel]

85. my son is 7 years old and he knows the score...

i've told him that soldiers are brave individuals and seek to protect us, but the soldiers in iraq have been lied to by bush.

he knows that both soldiers and innocent iraqis are dying, and it's bush's fault

i think dressing children in soldier's uniforms is grotesque

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

88. Making killers role models. What a swell idea.

In Germany it was "Der Hitlerjugend". A real nice bunch of boys who did swell things like run fight for Der Vaterland and run extermination camps.

[Silverhair]

91. Were they JROTC ?

Junior Reserve Officer Training Corps. Those are schools that operate in conjunction with the military. The number of those was fixed by congress a long time ago. Most of the schools are boarding schools, and the kids learn military subjects as well as the regular subjects.

They have been around for decades.

[Silverhair]

94. In the 1920's the Boy Scouts were attacked for exactly the same...

reasons. The more things change, the more they remain the same.

[spindoctor]

96. H-I-T-L-E-R J-U-E-G-E-N-D (nt)

[Eric J in MN]

97. What are the "Young Marines?"

nt

[cynatnite]

99. They were kids...not marines n/t

[MaineDem]

112. Hey there, Maine mary; good to hear from you!

I was reading this in the Sentinal this morning and wondered what kind of group this could be.

Some sort of Explorer troop or JROTC? Yikes!!!

[Moderator]

113. Locking....

This thread has become inflamed and
has run its course.