Yeah, I've bashed Democrats. (Yes, this is a poll)

[Guaranteed]

I've been extremely angry at our leadership over the past few years.

But, we all have to admit that they have been about a thousand times better since the presidential election, and Dean's election to the chairmanship of the party.

Kerry himself somehow woke up a month BEFORE the election, even. It suddenly occurred to him that the people couldn't trust him, and since then, he's been doing a great job, as have most of the other Democrats.

The biggest complaint we can make against our party is that there are the Nelsons, Lieberman, Feinstein, Biden, and a couple of others who have been, still, undermining us (the bankruptcy bill was pretty bad). But the Republicans have the same people in their party (which is not to say that we shouldn't get rid of our Benedicts)!! The ratio's about the same. But, as the minority party, we have to pull together. There's no room for this DLC weak-kneed bullshit- not that there ever was, in any case.

HOWEVER, back to the main point: In general, I think the Democrats have "gotten it" since the election. They understand the need for leadership, and have been doing what they can- WITHOUT CROSSING THE LINE INTO "TIN-FOIL LAND." They've been showing solid leadership, based on common sense. They've been putting up a pretty solid fight.

So, I have to give them some props. Will you give them props with me?

P.S. They have to take it to the next level eventually, though- which means taking leadership in the alternative energy arena. Which they should have done in 2002.

[Cocoa]

1. props for Social Security

:thumbsup:

[Guaranteed]

2. Abso-freaking-lutely.

It's dead, been dead for months, now.

They just beat the crap out of it.

[confludemocrat]

4. Props for a no-brainer? Is that what it's come to? They have a lot to

answer for. Although most of us critics of big name Democrats would not include your man Feingold in that criticism, I'd wager, I'd vote for him

[Guaranteed]

6. Think of it as positive reinforcement when they behave correctly.

That's the most powerful form of discipline, after all.

It's obviously not a no-brainer, anyway- I guess? They got scared, and fucked-up, big time, which is halfway understandable, if you give them that they're just cowards.

The thing is that they have to feel like we're behind them when they start doing things right.

And, YES, I'm still angry for them letting it come to this.

[in_cog_ni_to]

7. And that's ALL they've done since the 2000 SCOTUS appointment of the idiot

:grr: They get NO PROPS from me. I pay them. That's all they're ever gonna get from me. Should they decide to start doing their fucking jobs and acting like Democrats with balls, I may reconsider.

[Guaranteed]

15. That is NOT true- I remember about 4 or 5 issues in a ROW that

we kicked the shit out of BushCo on.

You don't remember that? When we were just beating them, over and over?

As the MINORITY party????

[in_cog_ni_to]

21. No. I don't remember that. Refresh my memory?

Please. :)

[Guaranteed]

23. Lemme see if I can refresh mine...

But, yes, it started with Social Security, and there was John Bolton, and Terri Schiavo, and (IMO), the Federal Appeals Court appointments (we did block a couple and retain the filibuster), just recently, the Hurricane Katrina. And there were more.

The point is that the Democrats, even as the minority, have been FIGHTING, with some typical exceptions. I am just as angry as anyone else about the bankruptcy bill, CAFTA, and I think they could have even done better with John Roberts.

But they've done what they can, giving opposition, and they're hopefully drawing up longer-term plans to take back one or two Houses of Congress in 2006, along with an even longer-range plan to use alternative energies to get the nation out from under the Saudis and terrorists in the future.

[IndyOp]

3. We have to pull together?

I will never put 'loyalty' above morality. When individuals do the right thing, I support them. When they do the wrong thing, I am not going to pull for them. The lessor of two evils is still evil.

[Guaranteed]

5. No, you're right in that regard.

I don't put loyalty over morality, either- as many, many can attest to, here.

The point that I was making there was not a "DLC point"- it was the opposite. These fucking clowns who are voting with the corporations need to figure out that, as the minority party, we don't have the room to be fucking around with votes on issues like the bankruptcy bill, just because they are corporate-sponsored.

Yes, what's right is all that matters- and, thus, we need to hold true to party principles, by, I suppose, actually FINDING them again. But the point is that we have to band together even tighter now, and circle the wagons around what we believe in, while we're the minority party.

[IndyOp]

10. Well said - We band together by FINDING our principles again.

and speaking them aLOUD, and acting on them.

:kick:

[Guaranteed]

13. I think we are- especially since Katrina.

I've actually been seeing some serious leadership as far as the grander socioeconomic issues since Katrina, by far more people than even our elected leadership.

Everyone is getting in on it. And it's working- because it's common sense.

Things are looking up. We need to support our Democrats, as they do well.

[Individualist]

35. I'm with you

Some of us feel that integrity is more important than political gamesmanship.

[On the Road]

8. It's Become Less of a Liberal-Moderate Split

than a divide between Washington insiders and the state-level party.

Howard Dean came from the states and is the leader of that faction. He got the job over the dead bodies of past party leadership, but has gotten a number of allies in Congress and the Senate. I give props to anyone following his lead.

[Guaranteed]

20. I think many of those even in Washington, seeing this come from the

grassroots, are getting it.

In fact, many of them have been there, all along. Many of them- and here I'm thinking Kennedy- have been there long enough that, much like long-term stock-traders, they aren't scared by temporary problems. They didn't run for their lives just because things started getting hot.

[ulysses]

9. I'll take a "maybe".

I like what Dean's done, and I like some other things I've seen.

I'm not going to forget CAFTA. No, that wasn't the whole party, but it's representative of a group we're better off without.

[in_cog_ni_to]

14. CAFTA, The Medicare reform bill, the Patriot Act, The IWR, The Bankruptcy

Bill, The gang of 14 letting the repukes have all their friggin' judges, doing NOTHING about evoting machines, doing NOTHING about 3 stolen elections and if I thought about it for a bit longer, I'm sure the list could go on and on and on about how USELESS the Democrats are.

[ulysses]

16. I think it's important to differentiate

between "the Democrats" and "the scum-sucking asswipes who voted for the bankruptcy bill". The Democratic party as a whole isn't useless, but parts of it are.

[Guaranteed]

18. That's a big part of what I'm saying here, though:

That the vast majority of the party has finally figured it out, while the list above, in the OP, is basically comprised of your typical whores that you'll find in any party (that we need to get rid of, as the minority party).

See what I'm saying?

[ulysses]

25. has the vast majority figured it out?

Maybe they have. I'm not sure.

[Guaranteed]

28. Yes, I'm pretty sure that they have.

I'm pretty sure that they get it at this point.

[ulysses]

29. hope you're right.

I doubt the corp. money has quit flowing, though. We'll see.

[Guaranteed]

31. It hasn't. But we know too much.

They know we're watching them. And they know we think they're cowards.

That hasn't stopped all of them (CAFTA, bankruptcy).

But we're their bosses, and their bosses have, at this point, laid quite a "smack down" on them. They're quite aware of it.

[StudentOfDarrow]

11. Yes on the props.

The Democrats are heading in the right direction.

[Autonomy]

12. Yes. nt

[union_maid]

17. Well, OK

If YOU'RE giving them props then I guess I can. I've read a lot of your posts. :) However, there are some, including my own Congressman sometimes, who I just don't understand. He votes well on a lot of things, is good on Social Security and then voted for the bankruptcy bill. Very disheartening.

I'll give them props. They'll certainly have my vote. I think a lot of them still have a way to go. I don't expect them to move so far left that they can't get elected to anything, but I do want them to understand that the market is not the answer to everything and to speak out more for social and economic justice. That would be nice.

[Guaranteed]

19. What I'm saying is that the party, as a whole, has pretty well gotten "it"

at this point.

There are several within the party, enough to hurt us, who are still fucking everything up.

But, the party as a whole is doing quite well in actually opposing Chimpy, Inc.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

22. Support the issues that count. The politicians are followers - not leader

They go where the money and votes are.

[Guaranteed]

24. When they have an interest, they are leaders.

Thus, the rich motherfucker Republicans setting up their media monopoly leverage move in the 90's. And, also thus, we find ourselves here today.

[KittyWampus]

26. Democrats managed to get Dean heading up DNC... so they got something

I enjoyed your post and would say that what is lacking now is the

VISION THING- think Apollo Project

If The Dems aren't careful, the GOP will run in 06 as the party advocating retooling for Green Technology.

They'll be full of shit... but the Democrats will end up looking like copycats.

[Guaranteed]

27. Right, that's what the last paragraph was about.

We needed to be about alternative energies long, long ago.

[KittyWampus]

33. thing is, ecology IS a security issue on many levels.

and I think people gravitate towards war mongering leaders because attacking other countries gives the impression of accomplishing something.

[NCPatriot]

30. Unfortunately....

I know this sounds and IS horrible -

But until we rid ALL parties and everything happening within the beltway of corporate and special interest lobbying... I have very ittle faith in ANYONE in public office! Our congress is FILLED on both sides with representatives who's pockets are lined with corporate funds for their own agendas! (Disguised as campaign contributions)

When the day comes that ALL social classes of people are represented equally (Never) with a similar percentage of Senators, then maybe the USA will become a better place again!

[Guaranteed]

32. Totally agreed. Public financing should be one of our

biggest issues.

[Guaranteed]

34. Kick nt