I have a Clinton Question. Really.

[lildreamer316]

Ok. I have been so busy since 2000 (multiple deaths in family; birth of son, etc) that I really did not keep up with Bill and his political actions since departing office except for the headline things. That being said,of course I have paid more attention since joining DU; however I have a question. Did I miss something? Why was Clinton up the Bush family ass since then? Why do you (PLEASE no SNARK answers; I want your INFORMED opinions) think he did this; for what gain for him? Soley because Hillary wants to run, or what? And how does that help her exactly? On the surface of things they both would have earned more respect if they had just stood by their (supposed) Dem values. Is it really a "Primary Colors" thing? And then why the turn today? Just going with the tide? I can see the obvious answers; I'm saying is there anything I am missing historaclly or politically to explain this other than him being opportunistic. Just didn't really seem that way in office....but maybe I was brainwashed then. Throw me a bone here.......

[Mizmoon]

1. They have a lot in common

Scads of cash
Yale
The Presidential thing
humaniarian projects to keep themselves busy

Here is the part where we swallow hard and recognize that the Bush and Clinton family have far more in common than say my family and the Clinton Family.

[cantstandbush]

29. I really think that Clinton being close to Bushes is to make it easier

for him to rub the salt into those wounds. Every slap on the back to daddy and son rubs another handful of salt into the lashes of reality that has whipped them almost senseless. It's like Clinton is saying, "See, I not only was a better President than both of you, but I am also a better human being. Afterall you did to try to undo my legacy while out of office and all that you helped to do against me while I was in office, I still can look you in the eyes, offer a helping hand, officer advice, smile, shake you hand, speak even kindly and gently about you, tell the truth and shame you while doing it. People listen to me, they may hate me, but they respect my intelligence, my ability to "feel their pain," or at least my ability to make them think I do. Yes, I'll be your friend, here let me slap you on the back. And everytime they see me with one or both of you, people will naturally remember. They will remember what life was like when I was President. They will remember that America was the envy of the world and its leader was revered and respected by all the world's citizens. They will remember when they bought their first home, worked decent paying jobs...and no matter what the problems, life seemed good. Here, let me put my arms around your drooping shoulders and slap you again on the back."

[William769]

2. Please show examples where Clinton is up Bushs's ass.

[Pab Sungenis]

9. Please don't.

That image is too horrible to think about without JPG's to back it up. :)

[lildreamer316]

17. LOL n/t

[lildreamer316]

11. I mean

I personally just can't believe that he would hang out with the family (can't he feel the negativity radiating from them? I can through the damn TV!!) On the Yacht; Barbara saying he was like a son, etc. That's what I'm talking about.And the fact that in my opinion his silence until now (or not taking a firm stand against what anyone could see was a horrible administration that GUTTED EVERYTHING he worked for)=complicity. I really want to like him, but I am kinda suprised. I KNOW you have to play a bit on the fence to get things accomplished, but it seems to me he took it a bit overboard, like he thought we (the country) really would like him better if he was buddies with the Bushes. He seemed to really be strong in his convictions sometimes; I'm a little confused.

[WilliamPitt]

3. It's a little odd

By this I mean his recent lash-out is odd, given the historical silence past presidents keep about present presidents, and about his snuggle-up with the elder Bush.

My take on it is pretty straightforward: There are, right now, only a handful of living humans who know what it is actually like to be president of this country: Ford, Carter, Bush, Clinton, Bush Jr. Somehow, Bill and the elder Bush hit it off while trying to help after the tsunami. I think their shared experiences from holding that office means they are about the only two people who can talk to each other about it.

I don't like it, but I think I can understand it.

[KoKo]

10. Clinton and Carter never hit it off, I guess. Bush Senior may be using

Clinton to save his own reputation after he fell on his face like his idiot evil spawn son is beginning to do and Clinton is in need of saving the legacy of his Presidency after the Monica tarnish. Clinton is well aware of how he's viewed and that those on the Left no longer have the reverence we once did for him after Selection 2000 where he never said a word in defense of Al Gore.

I think it's a mutual admiration society of Presidents who are tarnished. Carter managed to be independent after his failed presidency.

Poppy and Clinton may have more in common than many of us thought ...especially their vision of Globilization which is so important to both. (Remembering how Clinton rammed NAFTA through)
I don't think Carter ever bought into that Globilization theory so popular with the Bush's and Clintons.

:shrug: my 2 cents.

[WilliamPitt]

23. Remember the Haiti crisis during Clinton's term?

Carter went in under the radar to try to negotiate a solution. That was a good thing, except that he never let the Clinton people know he was going in. It disrupted a whole series of things Clinton was doing to try to deal with the situation, so there may be sole lingering annoyance.

Recall, also, that in '91 and '92 Clinton went out of his way to be the "I am not Carter" candidate and eventual nominee. So the antipathy could be going both ways.

[11cents]

32. Not quite right.

The Clinton administration asked Carter and Powell to go to Haiti and negotiate with the junta, but Carter violated Clinton's brief about what was and was not an acceptable agreement. The result was that the junta leaders hung around after the US invasion until the day before Aristide returned.

Carter was similarly overly solicitous to the Bosnian Serb ethnic cleaners.

[lildreamer316]

25. Ok

I can live with that; but I dunno....it just seems that as a person, how could he stand to be around people you know have worked to smear you and your family unmercifully; or people who if not the direct culprit still share some complicity?People who have systematically dismatled almost EVERYTHING you worked so hard for? I guess I am expecting too much from him; but damn....that would really get under my skin. Just a little too much. I mean, yes it is "business"; but they hit below the belt every day-and hard. At some point, dosen't one have to make politics personal to be effective? Maybe I am wrong; show me where.............I am willing to learn.

[WilliamPitt]

26. Koko has an interesting observation above

They are both globalization freaks.

[lildreamer316]

30. MMMmm

Yes; see that is what I am referring to needing to know. During his actual administration I was just another clueless blonde; and now I am trying to educate myself as to what was really going on (and what many of his policies enacted meant in long term).

[TahitiNut]

31. I don't believe for a moment ...

... that Chimperor Disgustsus "know(s) what it is actually like to be president of this country."

The Maynard G. Krebs pResidency: "Work!?!??"

[Bridget Burke]

4. You'll be hearing lots more complaints about Clinton....

Now that he's criticized little Bushie....

[Flubadubya]

12. Yeah, I hope he's been wearing his "flack jacket" around Babs...

At least that's what Poppy says anybody had better be wearing if they dare criticize Jr. in front of the old battle ax. :rofl:

Pretty scary stuff, eh? :scared:

[Toots]

5. Surprizingly Clinton does not recognize the same bad in people DUers do.

Clinton is just one of those "Can't we all just get along" sort of guys. He is a "Lover not a Fighter" He is also extremely intelligent. He knows the amount of hatred built up against him and his wife during the ninties and he wants to try and defuse some of that hatred. The fund raising for both Katrina and the Sunami victims was a way to do two things. Bring in money from Liberals that Bush 1 or Bush* could not get and also to show right wingers that Bush 1 and he can get along just fine so Democrats may not be as bad as the right wing echo chamber would have people believe. I sometimes am humored by DUers trying to out think Clinton. He truly is extremely intelligent.

[marbuc]

8. "Surprizingly Clinton does not recognize the same bad in people DUers do."

Go figure, eh?

[KoKo]

15. I know....*cough* ...*cough.*

Gag...

[lildreamer316]

14. Well that is what I thought

but I still feel like he should see the deep evil rooted there. I mean really. How can he be friends with that? Sure, I'd like us to all get along too, but obviously that isn't in the Bush lexicon. It's not for lack of trying (to a fault!!) on the Dem side.If he wants to be peaceful why not just remove himself from the situation. Given his intelligence I thought maybe he had something up his sleeve? That's what I'm asking. I really WANT to believe that he knows what he is doing.

[KoKo]

22. Oh...I believe he knows what he's doing and he's extremely intelligent....

BUT..... There's an awful lot he could have used his intelligence for like: Verified Paper Ballot Voting, Environmental Degradation, Election disenfranchisement of millions of Americans, Corporate Reform, Poverty in America, helping Unite the Democratic party after we took heat all throughout his Presidency DEFENDING HIM?

Where WAS he WHEN "WE" NEEDED TO BE DEFENDED? Now he Lurks with Poppy?

There was so much he could have done...So much. And Al Gore has tried to do what Clinton should have been doing.

He might have stayed back to let Hillary have her day...after the way he shamed her. I do believe he had enough honor to do that. But, he could have done more to help the people he hurt who have suffered through almost six years of hell and the dismantling of his whole Presidency and what the Democratic Party worked for in Labor rights and social liberties and environmental and pharmaceutical safeguards since FDR. Everything is being dismantled...and he hangs with Poppy. It's too much to bear...for many of us. Not all, but many of us.

[crispini]

24. "Deep evil"

Not everyone on the planet thinks of the Bush family as "evil." That's a pretty strong word.

[lildreamer316]

28. Strong negativity then?

You are right; I wrote that without thinking. But I do believe they are quite the test for us.

[bryant69]

6. Maybe because he cares more about

Tsunami victims and katrina victims than he does about the opinions of left wing message boards?

But I think Mr. Pitt is on to something as well.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[tx_dem41]

18. I like both your answer and Will's...

but the edge goes to yours.

[peacetalksforall]

7. I hope this is a serious thread as I also want to know,

Supposedly, Clinton really believes in the concept of forgiveness and appears to be genuine on this subject. For me, that is a starting point because I believe we have to seek beyond the Hillary-WH issue.

Normally, however, I can't believe that anyone who did what they did to the Clinton's, including Chelsea and everyone in their world - would now turn around and apologize to the Clintons assuming an apology is a starting point for forgiveness in the political world.

The gravity and scope of the war against the Clintons that is now fifteen years in the process was real and serious for our country.

It was a WAR in that the entire right wing worked together to attempt to remove him from office and assassinate his character. This was a 100% campaign with all levels of attacks and battalions of generals and soldiers. Hundreds to thousands of organizations, many of them tax-exempt, and thousands and thousands of journalists, lawyers, and FBI people banded together along with the cable and network television and radio station owners.

[Bethany Rockafella]

13. All those questions should be asked to Clinton himself.

If you really want an honest answer. :-)

[lildreamer316]

16. (sigh) I know

I just tend to defer to the older and wiser minds here at DU (sometimes!!) to help me to understand. I'm sure there is something I am not seeing here; just can't put my finger on it..........

[FlaGranny]

19. How has this board morphed

from an anti-Bush board to a "Clinton hate" board? That's my Clinton question.

[leetrisck]

20. More like bush is up Clinton's ass trying to look

respectable. Clinton was a President of the people - bush is not and never will be.

[z-man]

21. My take on it has always been

that he faced an incredible onslaught of hate and abuse from the GOP particularly those last four years of his Presidency and his response has reminded me of a typical psychological abuse response- to go along and not make waves to try to alleviate some of that. I mean these people went after him non-stop and we all know what they are capable of. There could have been even more threats and attempted manipulation going on behind the scenes that we aren't even aware of.

Also he was incredibly shamed with his impeachment. Never underestimate the power of shame and fear in its ability to weaken the resolve of even the strongest leader. The ongoing attacks threatened his marriage, his credibility, his power as a leader.

None of these things are important to someone like * but to an actual intellectual that has the capacity for empathy, the power of shame can make even the toughest "go along" to keep the peace.

That's what his response has seemed like to me. That only works for a time until the outrage and anger take over at the repressor and then truth takes a seat again no matter what the personal cost.

Just my take. But what do I know?

[KoKo]

33. Good GAWD...couldn't he have picked a better father figure,though...Still

an interesting post...I understand lots of what you say.

[Terran]

27. Poppy Bush is the father Bill never had

and Bill is the son Poppy really wanted but never got. I think they just get along well, and have that ex-President thing in common. There aren't too many people who have held that job hanging around, so I would think it's natural they might gravitate toward each other. You notice it's not * the Younger that Bill hangs around. I don't see anything sinister in it, really.

[KoKo]

34. Kick for this post from this morning that the night crowd might have

missed. So many questions about why Clinton has done what he's done. I have questions and so like to read the posts about it. Maybe I'll change my mind the more I read. :shrug: