What do you consider RICH?

[mondo joe]

What do you consider:

Poor
Low Income
Lower Middle Class
Middle Class
Upper Middle Class
Comfortable
Well off
Rich
Stinking Rich

[AX10]

1. What is 'wealthy'

If your NET value is $10 million+, you are 'rich'. At this point, it's only how rich are you.

-my view

[MarvinBarns]

2. You got more than me.

Hand it over.

[andyhappy]

3. welcome to the DU!

glad to have you on board!

[AX10]

5. I never said that I have 10 million, just that is what...

I consider rich.

[StellaBlue]

61. Welcome to DU, MarvinBarns!

:hi:

[Dutch]

98. Yes, it's all just envy

Doubtless the people of New Orleans are just "envious" of the super-rich who got tax cuts while flood defenses went unrepaired and thousands of them had to live below the poverty line.

[sandnsea]

15. If you're anywhere near $500,000

you're rich, and if you don't think you are, you're either a selfish, oblivious stooge or a Republican. Or both.

[On the Road]

28. If You Don't Have Enough to Provide a Middle-Class Income

without working, I don't see how the word "rich" is appropriate. And $500,000 isn't nearly enough for that. It would be at least a million. I was also thinking assets of $10 million is a good boundary line for the "rich".

[sandnsea]

44. Yeah well

I guess I've been to one too many dentists lately who work 4 days a week, are buying up investment property all over the place, and aren't "rich", apparently because they work. :eyes:

Whaaa I feel soooo sorrry for them. :cry:

[Serial Mom]

105. Me too ... dentists are now richer than most doctors

My dentist, a nice guy, has such a busy practice with his associate you can't even get scheduled for your next 6 month check up/cleaning in 6 months - he is booked 7-8 months out!

Plus he has the most up-to-date computerized equipment to show the xrays on a computer screen, TVs on the ceilings, choice of CDs to listen to, a full size game room for the kids, AND 1-1/2 days off during week.

[lukasahero]

62. Bwahaha.

Sorry but you're displaying your ignorance here. Does that figure account for age, retirement? Is this "net worth"? Do you figure in the value of a person's home to arrive at this conclusion?

Throwing out one figure to accomodate every region of the country and personal situation is ridiculous.

[haydukelives]

72. What she said

My view exatly. Thank you sandnsea.

[jmowreader]

73. Rich = more money than most people have

And what "rich" is depends on where you are.

If I moved to Appalachia with $250,000 in the bank, I would be filthy rich. Obviously if you moved there with $10 million-plus, you'd be obscenely rich.

Move to Beverly Hills or Palm Beach with the same $10 million and you are in the market for starter homes.

It's all relative.

[Gunit_Sangh]

4. True wealth is not measured in $$$

<eom>

[CrispyQ]

11. Very nice answer!

:thumbsup:

Two good sayings to remember:


Time is the essence of our lives.


He who dies with the most toys, still dies.

[MindPilot]

31. "There are two ways to be rich

make more or want less"

[pitohui]

12. yes it is

platitudes are just a way to put a band-aid on the cancer of this class-based society

i'm tired of lying abt it

wealth IS measured in $$$


if we can't even agree to talk abt apples when we're talking abt apples, then all we do is chase our tails

as a rough rule of thumb, you are not rich unless you are financially independent, which means you have sufficient income to keep you & yours for the rest of your life even if you never worked agn, otherwise, really, you're just well-to-do or comfortable, because it can all be taken away if you cross the wrong person or develop the wrong health problem & can't work any longer


at today's low interest rates, prob. to be securely financially independent you'd need $4-8 million, depending on the region

there is no use pretending that any amt of hard work or smart work is going to make most of us rich, it ain't gonna happen

[mondo joe]

50. Then don't sully yourself with this thread on mundane $ wealth.

Words do mean things, you know.

[Seansky]

91. Agree

I say rich = peace of mind and also true love.

[CrispyQ]

6. Wow, I've never really thought about it so specifically before.

I'm assuming a annual income for a family of four.

Poor: $15,000 or less
Low Income: $15,000 to $30,000 or less
Lower Middle Class: $30,000 to 50,000
Middle Class: $50,000 - $100,000
Upper Middle Class: $100,000 - $250,000
Comfortable & Well off: $250,000 - $1,000,000
Rich: Greater than $1,000,000
Stinking Rich: Greater than $10,000,000

Good post. I'm interested to see what others say.

[mattclearing]

17. That looks about right to me. n/t

[hfojvt]

51. since I am alone, I do not go by families of four

however, for 2001, here is the break-down for family income

2001 109,297 $17,970 $33,314 $53,000 $83,500 $150,499

That is of 109,297,000 families in this country 20% of them made less than $17,970, 40% made less than $33,314, 60% less than $53,000, 80% less than $83,500 and 95% less than $150,499.

So you are saying that families who make more than 95% of all other families are only "upper middle class". I tend to think of the top 5%, making over $150,000 as stinking rich. Those making over a million are dirty rich. The top 20%, those over $85,000 are rich.

However, it depends on wealth, other assets and expenses as well as income. Someone making $30,000 as a pension, or what Webb Hubbell called a "nominal" salary for being on a board of directors, is better off than someone working 2000 hours for that same income. Someone making $40,000 a year for a 40 hour week and five weeks vacation every years is better off, or richer, IMO, than someone making $50,000 a year for a 60 hour week and one week of vacation. There are other factors like the cost of housing, utlities, distance of commute which would impact "well being" apart from money income.

[belle]

71. Also depends where you live, and the relative cost of living

$50,000 a year goes farther in a number of places in the U.S. than it does in NYC or the Bay area, for instance.

[StellaBlue]

55. I agree with that

My post wasn't numbers-based, but would correlate to your numbers, I think.

[SmokingJacket]

63. that's pretty much what I say.

Though there are a lot of variables... age, family size, region...

[samsingh]

118. that sounds about right

[NewJeffCT]

7. depends where you live

in some places in the South, you can probably buy a good home for $250,000. In places around NYC, Connecticut, Boston and California, $250,000 will maybe buy you space in a garage...

[smbolisnch]

52. Was just talking about this yesterday with a friend from Long Island.

A 250,000 house in my town (WV) would cost upwards of 800-900,000 there, with quadruple the property taxes.

It is totally dependant on location. :)

[NewJeffCT]

64. Just in Connecticut...

Our home that is northeast of Hartford would probably get around $400,000 if we sold it now.

If the same house was in SW Connecticut on the same amount of land, it would be at least $600,000 to over $1 million depending on the town. (I saw a home similar to ours in Fairfield, CT a while back that was similar to ours, but on 0.25 acres of land instead of the almost 1.5 acres that we have now that was like $650,000... and Fairfield is not the most upscale town in that part of Connecticut)

[smbolisnch]

66. Yep - it is all dependant on local COL.

Major differences. Where I live, 600,000 homes are mansions. Literally. :P

[shanti]

79. actually

250,000 would buy you my 2/1 with yard halfplex in a sacramento suburb.

[NewJeffCT]

81. yes

which is why i said in places. my old home in CT was a 3br/2bath ranch on 0.25 acres and it went for $225K last year.

[bryant69]

8. What is the value of seeing what I think those various categories are?

Seems like participating would reveal more about my biases than it would about who is really poor and who is really rich.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Ready4Change]

9. Point of view dependant

Regarding most of the human beings who ever lived, even most of the USs Poor are more rich and powerful than can be imagined.

For example, you can travel at speeds unimaginable simply by hopping onto a bus.

However, in the modern, Western civiliation context, I'd go with a personal value of $5+ million as being Rich, and the view that an individual earning $200,000 a year has a shot at getting there.

If you earn less than that you are "little people" or at best a Wannabe Rich Person.

imo

[sandnsea]

10. Upper to Stinking

When put on a global scale, they're all rich and it's time they recognize it. On a global scale, I'm wealthy, despite the fact that I'm lower middle class to low income here. In this country, the income of upper middle class people makes up about 10% of the total population. The poor, low and lower middle make up at least 40%. Yet, by the pictures you see on the teevee, you'd think it was the other way around.

I am tired of rich people asking me to feel sorry for them.

[faithfulcitizen]

13. well, I think anything over $150-$200K/year, but it's regional.

I live in the midwest, people on the coasts make much more due to cost of living.

Poor -Have a hard time putting food on table
Low Income -Cannot afford new material goods
Lower Middle Class -"Back to school" shopping means the necessities
Middle Class -Living paycheck to paycheck, but making it
Upper Middle Class -Takes about 3 vacations per year
Comfortable -Content, and doesn't worry much $$$
Well off -About the same as upper middle class
Rich -Has expensive hobbies, ie. windsurfing :hide:
Stinking Rich -Able to generously give $10/mil w/out missing it

[BOHICA06]

22. You're a Bad "undeclared"

:)

[faithfulcitizen]

25. what's that mean? :)

[hfojvt]

33. I have a couple of quotes from Webster Hubbell

"I billed more than $750,000 for the firm, which netted me $150,000.
But my expenses continued to outrun my earnings. And my stress level
was, if anything, higher than ever." "Friends in high places" Webb
Hubbell 1997 p 149

"Although my $124,000 salary at Justice wasn't as much as I'd made
at Rose, with Suzy's salary and money in the bank, we thought we'd
be okay for a while. op cit p 207

How comfortable you are, depends on what you want to buy. I probably made less than $150,000 for 15 years, but I thought I was doing okay. I was saving money, buying music CDs, and did not complain about stress. Even 70+ hour work weeks without any days off was tolerable since for half of that I was working for myself.

I scoff at the idea of money being necessary for happiness, but it made a world of difference to me when I went from $5.5 an hour to $7.15. Still there is a paradox, when I went from 22 hours a week to 40 hours a week at the same pay, my income almost doubled, but my happiness level did not. The extra 18 hours of work a week make me feel like I have almost no time for myself.

[patdem]

14. There is INCOME..and there is NET WORTH...very different

please define if you mean INCOME or NET WORTH...Income of 1,000,000 is rich, but Net Worth of 1,000,000 might be middle class. PLEASE, define what you are talking about?

[sandnsea]

18. Middle class???

Are you kidding me?? A million dollars of accumulated wealth is MIDDLE CLASS?

:banghead:

Some people have just got to get out more, that's all I can figure.

[MsTryska]

23. million dollars NET WORTH.

different from Accumulated wealth.

[sandnsea]

40. See #39 n/t

[pitohui]

26. do you never plan to retire

i guess you don't

many retirees who are perfectly middle class have a million dollars in accumulated assets that they have saved over the decades, much of it based on the equity in their homes

if you retire at 70 & live until 90, you must be able to afford to live 20 years w.out working, at a time of life when yr medical costs will be at their highest

a mere millionaire is not rich these days

YOU need to get out more, is all i can figure, visit a few nursing homes, talk to yr older relatives, get the REALITY abt what it costs to be old

[sandnsea]

39. They don't have a million dollars

I live in a retirement town, one with many folks who have done quite well for themselves. They don't have million dollar homes. They don't have million dollar stock portfolios. They came up when there were pensions, which is the primary source of their income. They might have $500,00 cumulative. And that's the rich ones, the ones who aren't living in a single wide trailer on social security.

What's the code on your gate again?

[pitohui]

45. the value of the pensions is often more than a million

i'm not sure if i should do the math for you but i've seen pensions valued in the millions, that is what you need to save to throw off that amt of interest income ea. yr

i won't share the code on my gate since the mathematics involved is clearly beyond you

but if you don't have a pension, you had better plan on having investments of a million dollars or more if you plan to live a long time

no skin off my nose if you don't believe me, it's your future that you're cheating by not being willing to face reality

[sandnsea]

47. Now you're just stretching

Say anything to defend your position, calculating the value of pensions which isn't remotely what the OP was talking about.

Reality is reality, RICH people have a million dollars to live off of. Everybody else gets their home paid off and lives on social security. That's reality and I'm shocked more people don't know it.

Save and invest. God. Have you been paying ANY ATTENTION to Katrina AT ALL?? Or do you just believe all those people are on welfare???

[MsTryska]

53. well bear in mind that these days

900 sq foot condos are selling for 300-400K. and that it's apparently easy for people making 60K combined a year to get into one of those homes (right now) thanks to interest only, no money down ARMs.

So let's say they're sitting on 400k worth of house.


there's also the 2 25K cars - we're now at 450K, let's say each has 150K set aside in their 401Ks - that's 750K....


it's not inconceivable - especially when you start looking at small businesses owners as well.

[Solon]

94. LOL, That sounds like the northeast or west coast...

Condos for THAT much, hell might as well get a full fledged house around here for about 190-250k. Also, there are other problems with such calculations. For one, most people don't buy houses with cash, so, assuming they were able to actually pay it off from the bank, they probably paid TWICE what it was worth, not getting that back, over 20-30 years or so. During that time, the depending on the "Bubble factor" they could have their house either double, triple, or more in value, or depreciate rapidly, depends really.

Give an example with my parents, my father brings home about 50k a year, with overtime. They bought the house we lived in(renting) 10 years ago, so far it has increased in value to about 190k. Four cars, only two work, none worth more than 2k each, no savings at all, been living paycheck to paycheck, plus filed for bankruptcy this year, medical bills and all that. This with my dad being less than 20 years from retirement. How he is supposed to accumilate a million dollars in net worth in that time is beyond me. According to most stats, he is middle class, but compared to his net worth, he and my mom are dirt poor.

[phylny]

113. My husband's company has a pre-retirement seminar for its employees.

What you are not accounting for is illness. If/when the elderly become ill, their accumulated savingsbegin to evaporate.

SO, you need as much as possible going into retirement years.

[MsTryska]

19. i took it in term of income.....

so much easier to deal with tax brackets than to use Net Worth.

to me it's easier to really define what's what that way - as opposed to some farmer barely able to make ends meet thinking he's the rich guy the republicans give tax cuts too, since the net worth of all his equipment is over 500K.

[rman]

24. The middle class is living 'one moth's salary away from bankruptcy'

The average American has 8 credit cards and $8000 debt (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/credit/).

[mondo joe]

42. I'll let you define it in your answer. :-)

[MsTryska]

16. hmm...well for me?

for a family of 4 per year:


Poor: 12K
Low Income: 12K - 24K
Lower Middle Class: 24K - 50K
Middle Class:50K - 80K
Upper Middle Class: 80K - 120K
Comfortable: 120K - 200K
Well off: 200K - 400K
Rich:400K+
Stinking Rich:1M+

[rman]

20. If you have a billion in the bank, you could spend a million each year

for a thousand years, and not work a single day. Imagine that.
And there are people who have multiple billions.

That's well within the realm of stinkin' rich. Rich as in "you ought to be ashamed of yourself".

[Cleita]

21. Stinking rich is a billion or more in assets.

Anything under that, which still gives you an income that you can afford to buy what you want and go where you want is rich.
If you can afford your own home, or two or three, several cars and belong to a country club, but still have to have a job or career, even if you are worth millions, does not make you stinking rich. You could lose it in a stock market crash.

Upper middle class means you have a good job that pays well and maybe enough savings to be a millionaire, but not enough for a rich man's income.

Lower middle class, you have a good job, a home, savings and a couple of cars but you have to live on a budget.

Anything below that is poor.

If you are homeless then you aren't even poor, you are destitute.

[Lenore]

27. shouldn't comfortable be between Lower and Middle Class?

In any event since you have had no real responses, that answer your question, before the time I hit "reply", I thought I would give it a try.

As a child I grew up "poor". My father was a minister in a small hick town of Montana and we lived on 10% of the tithes given to the church. Them must have been some similarly poor sob's because his wage was often not enough to keep electricity, to our home, the year round.

When I think about "poor" I think of how my daddy would hunt deer and bear for our winter meet supply and while we cut up the meet on the big solid kitchen table, my mom melted down the fat from the bear to make "lard" which was stored in empty donated coffee cans stacked up in the pantry... this was our cooking and baking grease for the winter. Not being able to afford Krisco is "poor" in my book.

I could similarly detail aspects of each of your classifications, from "poor", where I started out, to now almost fitting into the "upper middle class" (all Glory to God) category. Amazing what marrying up can do for ones social standing LOLOL. (My husband, his family would be considered firmly in the Upper Middle Class, country clubs and all, but since he married down.. socially speaking... it all evens out to be a comfortable middle class type of lifestyle).

One thing I can say about growing up in dire poverty is that it has truly given me an appreciation for the nicer things in life. In addition, all those years of poverty really taught me how to shop frugally and make ends meet on the fewest of pennies. Now that I am in a position that I could make purchases on a daily basis, I love doing so at Goodwill and Craigslist.org

I don't know if this helped answer your ?? but I do hope it gives you a little input into a few of your categories, as you have requested.:)

[pitohui]

35. no -- comfortable is a euphemism for upper middle or upper class

at least it is around here, the gulf south

many ppl use the word "comfortable" to mean the man w. several million $$$

i have never heard "comfortable" used for the middle middle class, who are most decidedly NOT comfortable unless they budget carefully & avoid having any sick children

[Seansky]

Rich=Peace of Mind

I'm re-posting part of my answer to an earlier qs. about people wanting to be poor. Adding to that, being rich means being able to enjoy life, in its fullness, which requires complete peace of mind (weather or not that means having lots of money)

----
I am sharing this out of memory, so if someone has heard this doctor, please fill in the blanks.

A couple of months ago I stumbled into a speech by a renown doctor being aired in Pacifica Radio. The renown doctor (to this date I haven't checked who he is) was telling the audience an anecdote about his visit to Nepal when he was young and not yet a doctor.

He had been hiking the countryside and ran into a family living in what I understood were some form of tents and basic ly conducting all their daily routine outdoors, in an environment lacking all modern luxuries.

And, as in most humble environments, the family welcomed the young man into their home as if he were one of them.

The young man, noticing how poor these people were, felt sorry for them, but realizing that these people didn't know they were poor, he noticed how content they were with their.

Coming back to the present, the doctor pointed out that the reason this family didn't know they were poor was because they had no advertising. No one telling them how much is there to have.

<snip>

[pitohui]

38. yes, well, agn, a way of denying the reality of OUR society

a family living in a damn tent w. no access to modern medical care or even a dam indoor toilet is poor

ppl living in those conditions have a life expectancy of around 40

that is poor, my friend

no amt of condescending commentary by rich doctors able to go slumming in nepal can put lipstick on that pig

[Seansky]

85. Well, I have lived in both side of the spectrum, really poor in a third

world country and now doing pretty well, so I know what you are trying to say. As a child, I did do go to bed with little to eat, being one of four children to a widow. So, no, I didn't take your comment as being condescending to the rich doctor's commentary.

Seems I didn't make my post clear...but here is my experience of poor vs. comfortable.

Selecting from the list provided and what I have personally seen thru my volunteer work in the US, poor is someone whose part of the house floor is dirt, lacks heating for most of the winter because there is so little money, and struggles all the time to afford sending kids to school. Or, the homeless with mental illness who can't recognize the inhumane state they live in. Or, the elderly with health problems unable to cover basic medication cost. The spectrum of poverty I have seen in the US since I first arrived is rather broad, almost as bad as what I saw in my home country.

Comfortable, on the other hand, is someone who has no debt, at least two houses with all the toys necessary to make it complete, and enough left to enjoy trips, good dinners as much as desired, and so on.

[MindPilot]

29. Rich to me

is when you are in a position that if your income stopped, you wouldn't notice.

[jlseagull]

30. A cynical view of things - here's mine...

Poor - Less than $400K a year, with a job (the "Working poor")
Low Income - Between $400K and $1M, interest and investment income only
Lower Middle Class - Between $1M and $5M annual income and owning less than 2 houses.
Middle Class - Between $5M and $15M annual income and owning less than 4 houses and a private jet, may own 2 local politicians.
Upper Middle Class - Between $15M and $50M annually, net worth of less than $400M, owns less than 2 county officials.
Comfortable - Between $50M and $150M annually, net worth of less than $1B, owns less than 2 state congressmen.
Well off - Between $150M and $300M annual income, net worth of less than $3B, owns one Federal congressman.
Rich - Between $300M and $1B annual income, net worth of less than $50B, owns less than 4 congressmen or one head of state.
Stinking Rich - Above $1B annual income, net worth of more than $50B, owns more than 4 congressmen and more than one head of state.

[StellaBlue]

57. hahahaha

Love it.

[Seansky]

86. yeap! and the rest of us are just underprivileged and

should be glad that we are allowed to live in this country at all.

[CrispyQ]

111. lol

:rofl:

Wealth as define by what type & how many government officials you own!

[leftofthedial]

32. rich is net worth of $20 million or more

stinking rich (wealthy) means you can afford to keep your net worth from really being calculated.

[mondo joe]

48. That fits a family I know - the mother is valued at about 20 mil and

concedes she is rich. But she also concedes that her daughter - worth much more - is stinking rich.

[Blue_In_AK]

34. I don't know how to break this out

other than to say if you think you need more than $10,000-$15,000 a month income to live comfortably, you need to cut back on your "needs" a little bit. There's no excuse for CEOs, movie stars and sports figures, etc. to be making millions of dollars a year when other people can't even put food on their tables. Nobody's worth that much, and if they think they are, they've seriously got their heads up their butts. Just my $.02.

[StellaBlue]

58. I agree

As I said in another thread a few days ago

My mother is a secretary who earns about $26,000 a year working about 50-60 hours a week (no overtime paid!).

You cannot tell me that Dick Cheney (or anyone) works a hundred thousand times harder than my mother.

It's I-M-M-O-R-A-L.

[blindpig]

65. bingo

This is what drives me crazy. How anyone can with clear conscience fairly claim an income magnitudes greater than that of the working class is beyond me.

I think of my father. Of the people in my old neighborhood. Of my customers today.It makes me mad as hell. Yes, it is class warfare and we've been getting our asses kicked for a long time.

[ArkDem]

109. So you believe a hard working janitor should be paid the

same as a hard working neurosurgeon?

[Seansky]

88. Agree.

[jzodda]

36. This is not so clear cut as it seems

First off I hate numbers. A person doing ok in a rural area of Kansas might very well be homeless here in New York City. Money is worth more or less in different areas of the country.

I break it down into:

Poor: Having a hard time just keeping a roof over them

Middle Class: Working hard to keep that roof over them and to pay for childrens needs and their own retirement.

Rich: Anybody who does not need to worry about money

Now its possible that the family of 4 may make more then the single guy, living alone. I may call him rich even though he makes less then the family because that family needs to spend alot more while the single guy does not. I define Rich more in terms of how one gets to live rather then how much one earns.


Now take this interesting aside: My dad has a house worth about $1.2 million in this inflated New York City real estate market. He had it appraised last year. He has lived ther for 40 years, but is he rich? Hell no! He is living from one social security check to the next and can not even afford to eat out. Is he rich? I do not think so.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

37. I'm not sure about those categories.

In the UK, class isn't usually used to mean wealth - it's entirely possible to be poor but upper class, or rich but lower class. How different is it in the US?

I'd define "poor" to end somewhere between £12,500 and £25,000 a year, and "rich" to begin somewhere between £50,000 and £100,000 a year.

[pitohui]

41. it is v. different in the usa

it's all abt $$$

you cannot be "upper class" if you are poor in dollars

conversely, you can be a v. poor-spoken, ill-educated country boy, yet if you are worth many $$$ because of your buying & selling, then you are upper class or rich, you'd be surprised at how many ill-dressed slobs in dickies and F150 pick-up trucks have assets in excess of a million dollars, i've met several, contractors can be like this, some even take pride in how low-class they look & act

[StellaBlue]

60. I agree with the other respondent

It's all $$$

I lived in the UK for four years. Totally different.

The 'upper class' here are almost totally classless. And the nouveau riche are even worse. Tacky, tacky, tacky, as we'd say in the South.

Do you think * qualifies as 'upper class' according to British norms? Of course not! These people have no subtlety, no appreciation of education or intellectualism, and very little sense of irony.

I favor a meritocracy of the intelligent and noble (meaning you can be both or either and still be 'higher' than others - by which I mean people like * and Paris Hilton). In my imaginary world, Ralph Nader is considered upper class creme de la creme.

And people who call things 'classy' never are. (As in, 'That newly refurbished Caesar's Palace is classy, LouAnn.')

[LSK]

43. rich means never having to work again

Means you have enough money to live your current lifestyle without ever having to work again.

Middle class means having to work, but you can sustain a certain lifestyle.

Poor means working all day and still not having enough money to live even a decent lifestyle.

[slackmaster]

46. It has to do with income and debt

Poor = Dead broke, no income, probably no debt because can't qualify for a loan
Low Income = Under $25K income, negative net worth, hopeless debt load
Lower Middle Class = $25K - $40K with burdensome debt
Middle Class = $40 - $60K with some debt load
Upper Middle Class = $60K - $90K, debt foreseeably paid off during lifetime
Comfortable = $90K - $120K, debt not a big problem
Well off = $120K - $250K with modest debt and positive net worth
Rich = $250K = $500K lots of assets and no significant debt
Stinking Rich = Over $500K and high net worth (multiple millions)

[1932]

49. Someone who doesn't need to be employed to have a debt-free comfortable

life that will not reduce their life expectancy (ie, they have good health care and plenty of opportunity for vacations).

People who are in control of their own destiny and have relative degree of economic power are rich.

I imagine that person as someone who makes a lot of money from dividend and capital gain income and who might have a job, but has a golden parachute and a severence package which saddles shareholders with the costs of their retirement (including life insurance).

Most Americans are far from that situation.

[BlueIris]

96. Best post of this thread! Great reasoning, very interesting explanation.

Makes the thing I was going to post look silly. Basically to me, "stinking rich" is someone who, because of the sheer amount of wealth to his name, will never have to worry about threats to his own prosperity ever again, even in the case of the total economic collapse of the globe (a more real possibility than most people realize). Hence the "stinking" part of that label. In this world, it is highly unlikely that you are that wealthy and have clean hands.

[1932]

102. Hey, thanks.

Good point about total financial security even in crisis. Those are people who have no concern for the effects of policy, and even, often benefit during times when other people are in misery.

[StellaBlue]

54. Rich = most Americans

Our ideas about what 'rich' means are usually wildly off-base, in a world-wide context, IMHO. Ask any suburban SUV-driving mom with a Starbucks latte, 5,000-sqare-foot house, Louis Vuitton purse and Caribbean vacations if she's 'rich' - she'll say no.



To me personally, in America

Poor = living without what most Americans would consider basic necessities (any of the following: carpeted floor; washer and dryer; dishwasher; electricity; 24/7 running, hot water; a TV; long-distance phone service; a car)

Low Income = has work but not enough hours/pay to make ends meet; relies on some public assistance OR does not have some of the things on my list above

Lower Middle Class = working but does not earn enough to make ends meet, living without some of the things the middle class would think are staples of American life these days (any of the following: multiple options on phone service - e.g. call waiting, caller ID, etc.; a cell phone; more than one TV; vacations out of state; college paid for without major financial strain on family; more than one car; buys fanmcy brands rather than store brands; goes to movies, etc. without budgeting the cost into the month's outgoings; has enough money to save for retirement; has healthcare)

Middle Class = for most of working years, has work in a secure field with benefits (retirement, healthcare, etc.) or owns a small/local business; takes at least one out-of-state vacation per year; buys impulse items without damaging monthly budget; has two or more cars; has multiple phones/numbers; assumes children will go to college; thinks they pay too much in taxes; gets very few benefits from government, either through 'welfare' and benefits or through corporate welfare.

Upper Middle Class = same as above only with more assets; buys not just fancy brands but gourmet brands; assumes children will get jobs out of college through nepotism; takes far-away or foreign vacations; usually keeping-up-with-the-Joneses-conscious; usually a mix of inherited money and earned money.

Comfortable = indistiguishable from the above, but never realizes they ARE 'comfortable' because they are likely caught in a balancing act between out-of-control spending and mortgages, etc.
Well off = same as above to me, only with more social connections and commitments.

Rich = Anyone who has more STUFF or MONEY than they can possibly use themselves.

Stinking Rich = Same as above only x 1000. Usually totally out of touch with anyone below the 'rich' category; shameless, shallow spending; can do literally anything they can imagine within the bounds of physics.

[melody]

110. Things cost more here - the "wealthy" line is higher, not lower

I think anyone who works for a living (even the working rich) can hardly be considered "rich or stinking rich". I think THAT kind of wealth requires you to inherit it...it has to come through the generations, unless you're just damned lucky or named Bill Gates (roughly the same thing).

[MissB]

56. Interesting question

It is all subjective anyway. Some categories are hard to quantify with numbers, although I found myself tempted at times.

Stinking Rich? More money than God.

Rich? When your money works for you versus when you work for your money.

Well Off? Six figure income, nice house, can spend money with little thought.

Comfortable? Six figure income, budgeting.

Upper Middle Class? Not-quite six figure income, serious budgeting to live a good lifestyle.

Middle Class? Budgets are a fact of life, but the future looks good.

Lower Middle Class? Tossing the financial balls in the air and juggling them a good bit. Income in the $40k's-60k's.

Lower Income? Your average grocery store worker income. Barely making it.

Poor? No savings, little income, relying on social services for basic needs.

[Lefty48197]

59. The ability to buy necessities without EVER having to wonder if you have

enough money.

[Maine Mary]

67. I've an uncle who is "well off" and another who is "rich"

But they came by their money through hard work. Both lost their parents at a young age and slept in their cars for lack of dorm funds during their college years. One become the Attorney General of this State, and the other is a business consultant (the rich one).

I never attended college therefore my status has always generally been Poor/Low Income. I'm a hard worker, but I guess that doesn't count.

[mvd]

68. Rich - those who can afford some high-priced luxuries comfortably

Stinking Rich - Bill Gates
Well off - never have to worry about bills
Comfortable - need to watch the bills, but can afford to splurge sometimes
Upper Middle Class - can afford necessities comfortably
Middle Class - can afford necessities, but not comfortably
Lower Middle Class - need to save sometimes when you don't want to
Low Income - need assistance like food stamps
Poor - those who sometimes or often go hungry or without proper health care

[Greyhound]

69. Too many categories, you must be rich.

Only rich people want to make all these distinctions. All you need is;
Poor
Middle Class
Rich
Super Rich

In answer, and depending on where you live, I break it down like this;
< 25K = Poor
25K - 125K = Middle
125K - 500K = Rich
>500K = Uber Rich

[mondo joe]

70. Too few categories. You must not appreciate nuance. Is that you *?

He doesn't like to think too hard either.

[Greyhound]

83. ha ha you're so busted. Nuance, hahaha! Lemme guess, you make

a low 6figure income and don't think of yourself as rich 'cause you don't get invited to the same parties as (insert name of regional celebrity, mover shaker). :kick:

[mondo joe]

84. Not even close. Are "big words" a problem for you too? *?

Very odd attitude.

As someone who grew up quite poor and is now middle class, I'd say you're quite wrong about what middle and low-income people can think about in terms of income and in terms of vocabulary.

[Greyhound]

93. OK whatever you say. BTW I'd hardly classify nuance as a big word. n/t

[mondo joe]

101. I'm not the one who made such a fuss over the word.

And I think you seriously underestimate poor people.

[rman]

97. you talking income or capital?

what's 500k/year if you have a couple of million in the bank?
what if you have a couple of billion in the bank?

if 500k/y income is super rich, then what's 10 million/year income?

[11 Bravo]

74. Chris Rock has it right.

Shaq is rich. The mother-fucker who signs his check is wealthy.

[fortyfeetunder]

87. Ha Ha..give Chris one on that. n/t

[sakabatou]

75. Chocolate covered lard

[MazeRat7]

76. *tee hee....Me in so many ways... thanks for asking. (n/t)

[jmowreader]

77. How the rich are different from you and I

Rich people don't have to think about money. That's the difference.

If a rich person's car breaks down, he doesn't have to sit down and go through his checking account, his savings account, his credit card limit, all his bills and so on to see if he's got the money to fix the thing or if he's going to be bumming rides to work for the next six weeks. He picks up his cell phone, calls his mechanic, tells him "I'm broken down at Ninth and Main; come pick this thing up, fix it and let me know when it's ready."

Rich people don't worry about getting sick. They know they've got insurance. They know they've got the cash for the deductibles, for their prescriptions, for any rehabilitative therapies they might need. Plus, they have the wherewithal to afford preventive care so they're less likely to get sick in the first place.

If a rich person wants crab for dinner instead of beans, he goes down the crab aisle instead of the bean aisle--and without worrying about whether he should skip dessert tonight to make his grocery bill match the amount of money in his checking account.

This is what it means to be truly rich.

There are a lot of "nouveau riche" people out there. They're not really rich, they just have more money than you and I. They get up in the morning with money on the brain and go to bed at night with money on the brain. They worry about money more than I do, and I worry about it a lot. Rich people don't have to worry about money. It's like air: it's there, use as much as you need, don't sweat it.

[MindPilot]

107. It's amazing how different our perspectives can be

I would not have a second thought about any of those scenarios. If my car breaks, I get it fixed; I want crab for dinner, I go get crab. I'm single, own a house and I have a job that provides health insurance with an income that's somewhat less than six figures.

But I don't consider myself rich by any stretch. Solidly middle class, but nowhere near rich.

To me rich is not having to work. Or getting paid so damn much that you only have to do it once--like writing best seller or making a movie.

[mondo joe]

112. I'm with you there.

I think there is sometimes a sense that there are only 2 classes: rich and poor. (Sort of like only political classes: liberal or conservative.)

[Zynx]

78. When the interest on your accounts is so great you don't need to work.

If your interest(investment income included) can cover all of your expenses and then some, that is wealthy.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

80. The actual numbers mean less than the level of comfort

If you NEVER have to worry about whether you can afford some everyday purchase, then you're richer than most of the world's population.

[hootinholler]

82. Having the love of my children. n/t

[Seansky]

90. That is it.

being truly loved...

[tyedyeto]

89. 7-8 figure income n.t

[CoffeeCat]

92. My take...

Poor--below 27,000
Low income--31,000-27,000
Lower Middle Class--39,000-31,000
Middle class--income 40,000-70,000
Upper Middle Class--income 71,000-225,000
Rich--225,000-450,000
Stinking Rich 451,000+

[eridani]

95. You are forgetting entirely about social capital

--which can make surviving on little money much more doable. I grew up medically impoverished, meaning that we would have had a standard small-town level of comfort if it weren't for the fact that my parents were partially disabled and not able to get insurance at any price because of that.

One thing we did have was a lot of social capital that most people in our actual income bracket did not have. The loan officer at the small-town bank thought that my dad was a capital fellow, likely to pay money back when he was in shape to work. As a result, my parents refinanced the house a dozen times or so to keep on top of medical bills, and we lived very frugally when money was coming in. We always knew that there wouldn't be very many hungry nights in a row--it would all be better when dad got back from the bank.

[B Calm]

99. Rich= Someone who can afford 3 half naked hula girls to swat

their bare butt with palm leaves. Rich = Someone who thinks about flying coach to save a buck, then laughs about it for even thinking about doing it!

Rich is someone with good health and a loving family...

[Name removed]

100. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mtnester]

103. Rich IMO only, is when my money is making enough money

so that I/my hubby/my parents/children/grandparents do not have to work and can pretty much do whatever I/they want, whenever I/they want.

Anything else is not rich. If you still have to work for it, IMO, you are not rich. And the harder/longer/more you have to work for it, the poorer you are (strictly in monetary value only, not poor in family, health, friends, etc)

[dback]

104. All I know is, my household makes around $100K

And we sure as hell didn't feel "comfortable" or even "upper middle class." In San Jose, we were middle class. Now that we're in Oregon, I'm trying to figure out our new designation--maybe "upper middle class," but considering the amount my partner works and how we worry about money, it still doesn't feel "comfortable." We're one serious health-crisis or job layoff away from depleting a lot of our savings, as many in America are nowadays.

[calico1]

106. Rich is spending what you want,

whenever you want and never have to think or worry about money.

[ArkDem]

108. Per Anum

Poor 20,000
Low Income 40,000
Lower Middle Class 60,000
Middle Class 100,000
Upper Middle Class 1,000,000
Comfortable 20,000,000
Well off 100,000,000
Rich 750,000,000
Stinking Rich 2,000,000,000

[Zynx]

114. Upper Middle Class "$1,000,000"?!

You gotta be shitting me.

[ArkDem]

126. You are right...

5,000,000

[Barbra Whiner]

115. You might be rich when....

you get a Christmas Card from Haliburton signed by Dick and Lynne Cheney.

[Barbra Whiner]

116. You might be rich when....

the Diebild Company calls you to ask if you have a fovorite in the next election.

[Barbra Whiner]

117. You might be rich when....

you spell it "Kaliephonyah."

[Barbra Whiner]

119. You might be rich when....

you add his and her ATM's in the master bathroom.

[Barbra Whiner]

120. You might be rich when.....

your garbage collector checks every bag for jars of leftover beluga.

[Barbra Whiner]

121. You might be rich when....

your lawyer calls you every morning and asks "How's the marriage holding up?"

[Barbra Whiner]

122. You might be rich when....

you get the "too large to display" reply on your Blackberry when you are trying to check you checking account balance.

[Barbra Whiner]

123. You might be rich when......

the gas station attendant says to you, "Can you please turn off thr motor? I can't keep up."

[HoosierClarkie]

124. Doesn't it depend on where you live?

20,000 a year in California is different than 20k a year in Indiana.

Here is an interesting study: http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=6&tid=14403

It is a long read, but basically it says that Happiness doesn't increase with more income.

[Barbra Whiner]

125. You might be rich when....

every page in your daily planner says, "Don't forget to make the bank deposit."