Is no one outraged by the Vatican's blatant discrimination against gays?

[BurtWorm]

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/22/international/europe/22vatican.html?hp&ex=1127448000&en=4b5ee9218e6daead&ei=5094&partner=homepage

I wonder why this isn't getting buzzed about on DU. I'm a hetero atheist and it bugs the shit out of me.

[DeepModem Mom]

1. I'm an Episcopalian, and it disturbs me. And you're right --

I posted this article in LBN, and there wasn't much response. The responses did reference one of the worst aspects of this action -- the seeming equation of pedophilia and homosexuality.

[BurtWorm]

14. The twisted question this begs (in the incorrect use of that phrase)

is, why is the Catholic church interested in priests' sexuality at all? I thought priests were supposed to be asexual. :eyes:

[DeepModem Mom]

16. Well, that's a very good question. nt

[damntexdem]

25. Supposed to be, but they're not.

So the Vatican needs a scapegoat.

[Bill McBlueState]

2. are people just used to it?

I know that I stopped paying attention to Fred Phelps a few years ago because it was always the same old shit. Maybe people have come to expect the same from the Vatican, so it's a "here we go again" :eyes: type moment.

Unfortunately, the Vatican is much more powerful than Phelps, so if we ignore them, we're putting progressive ideas in jeopardy.

[terip64]

3. I heard about it this morning and I am outraged

I was brought up Catholic and am so happy that I trusted my gut and didn't just push my kids through all the bullshit! It sounds to me as if they are basically saying that the gay priests are the molesters. It is disgusting and anybody who was raised Catholic knows that it is bullshit.

[AX10]

4. The Vatican funds the MOB too.

They are just EVIL.

[arcos]

5. Why do you hate Catholics?

;)

[damntexdem]

27. Unfortunately Americans are ignorant of an important distinction:

that between anti-Catholicism and anticlericalism. I have much better discussions of such topics in Mexico, because people appreciate the difference. Worse, any criticism of what Christians do now gets characterized as anti-Christian. Guess what: insisting on that equation only drives people who become outraged at what the Pope, or a televangelist, or the SBC does into actually becoming anti-Christian.

Now, how about commenting on the TOPIC, instead of smearing the commenter?

[BurtWorm]

36. I took it as a joke.

;) I think that was the spirit it was meant in.

[arcos]

42. Yes it was.

:)

[BurtWorm]

43. The avatar was a bit of a giveaway.

;)

[arcos]

41. It was sarcasm...

that's why there was a wink ;)

And I'm not American, by the way... :P

[Rowdyboy]

6. Benedict has yet to surprise me, but I knew it was coming......

You pick rightwing leaders, you get rightwing policy.

[titoresque]

7. disgusting!

It amazes me that people so ignorant and evil can have such an impact on society, have such a large following. The followers of such bullshit are the ones to watch out for! All these mindless drones. Sickening!

[rurallib]

8. Yeah it pisses me off but it's not like the Vatican will take any advice

Banning gays makes no more sense than banning heteros. It's pedophiles that are the problem. Believe me. I was one of their victims.

[calico1]

Yes, of course.

I am totally disgusted. As a person raised Catholic I wanted to still believe there was some good left in the Church but I can't believe that anymore. I will no longer think of myself as Catholic.

[KittyWampus]

9. Come On, It's Funny! Without Gay Priests The Catholic Church Will Wither

even further.

How the heck can they even know who's gay?

And this is their pathetic response to the gay pedophilia they've excused and covered up?

It's so hypocritical and STUPID, it's laughable.

And they're supposed to be CHristians?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

33. Yes, it borders on shoot-one's-self-in-the-foot ridiculous

It's as if they don't know their own clergy. An awful lot of Catholic priests set off my straight woman's gaydar.

If all the gay men left the priesthood, they'd have an even worse time covering all the parishes. :eyes:

[Caution]

10. Is anyone surprised by the Vatican's blatant discrimination against gays?

Particularly with this new pope? Seriously? Is this in any way shocking? No. Am I outraged? Tough to get outraged by something you absolutely knew was gong to happen.

[Thtwudbeme]

11. Well, hell yes it bothers me!

ALL sexual/racial discrimination bothers me

[Mutley]

12. I think to most of us the fact that the Vatican

discriminates against gays is well known and "old news" in the sense that all we can do when we hear about things like this is roll our eyes, shake our heads, and move on to the next order of business. If the US government pulled something like this we could all be in the streets protesting, but what are we going to do against the Pope? Especially if we're not Catholic?

[Boredtodeath]

13. Sorry, too much to worry about with THIS government

We have no time for what the vatican is doing.

[charlie]

15. Not as much as the impetus behind it

Problem: Pedophiles in the ranks.

Solution: Kick out the gays.

World's largest church regarding gay men as kiddie-molesters-in-waiting, that's really fucked up.

[BurtWorm]

20. You mean the EXCUSE behind it.

Or are they really as sexually naive as they want their flock to think they are?

[Zhade]

17. I think many have outrage fatigue with regards to the RCC.

We've witnessed them covering up child rape for years, and there's just so much bigotry without strong repercussions one can see before throwing up one's hands.

[true_con]

18. Certainly not right

but catholics believe that practicing homosexuality is a sin. Priests should not be committing sin. What bothers me is that they are the ones who will say they have no problems with homosexuals as long as they don't practice it. Well, how is a celibate priest going to practice homosexuality?

[titoresque]

21. they're sending a bigger message

they're saying that Homosexual=pedophile
Which is such complete bullshit! But you know what.......they don't give a crap either way, if they did and if they were truly men of god...in the sense that god is love........these bastard motherfuckers would have done something a long time ago about the decades and decades of child molestation in the church. They dont care...it's all about money and power....and image.

[true_con]

23. The threshold for excommunication has gone down

in recent years. You would have thought the assholes responsible would have been kicked out and excommunicated. They have the spine to say this, but they don't have the spine to excommunicate?

[Angry Girl]

19. Hell, I'm outraged that most "religious" groups exist at all!

Most of them say basically,
If you're not for us, you suck.

A bunch of them also say,
If you're not for us, you suck but we're going to meddle in your lives to try to force you to see things our way

What's there to like about that? If you're spiritual, you don't need a fancy box to pray in and you don't have to tell others how spiritual you are either.

Oh, yeah, here's a little about the current Pope:

Opus Dei and Pope Ratzinger
http://www.odan.org/media_opus_dei_stake_pope.htm

Neil Bush & Pope Ratzinger
http://www.nynewsday.com/news/nationworld/world/ny-wochar214226829apr21,0,2092802,print.story

The Crusaders...
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/magazine/articles/2003/11/02/the_crusaders/

[Silverhair]

22. The Catholic Church is NOT a democracy.

They do not care about public opinion. They only care that God approves, and that is defined for them in the Bible and in Church Doctrine.

Nor is membership mandatory.

For that matter, any religion, that swings with the latest opinion will lose it's effectiveness.

[BurtWorm]

26. Benedict has made clear that his mind is stuck in the Middle Ages

where he wishes every other Catholic's mind was. How's that for not swinging with the latest opinion?

;)

[closeupready]

29. Not a democracy:does that mean the buck stops with the Pope, or with gays?

Because they are shifting blame for the scandal away from the hierarchy towards gay priests. If it's such a top-down organizational structure, why aren't the people at the top taking responsibility for the pedophilia?

[damntexdem]

31. Shh, that hasn't been exposed yet ...

just the pedophilia lower down among the priesthood.

[Silverhair]

38. I am talking about their doctrine.

Their doctrine was set hundreds of years ago, and it isn't going to chance very easily or quickly. They only recently apologized to Galileo. And that was over a peripheral issue.

[closeupready]

40. Yes, doctrine changes slowly. But this change came overnight.

It was never the policy that men who were sexually oriented homosexually could not become priests, merely that they were "called to chastity" or some such language.

I agree the Church changes slowly, but what doctrine gives the hierarchy the right to shift blame for scandals to innocent priests who are gay when that blame should be laid entirely at the feet of the actual pedophile priests and to some extent at the members of the hierarchy who were responsible for overseeing those priests and did nothing despite knowing or looked the other way?

[damntexdem]

30. Well, that's defined for them that way, excluding the Bible, ...

and any Church Doctrine that gets in the way of what they want to do now.

But an inquisitor in charge, and you get an inquisition.

[damntexdem]

24. Even priests have their shorts in a knot over that.

The Vatican will feel the blow back in their own ranks.

The Vatican isn't even sticking to its insistence on the sexual perversion known as celibacy -- it wants to stigmatize and shun even gay seminarians who are and intend to remain celibate.

[baby_mouse]

28. It doesn't bother me in the least

As a raving homosexual, I recognise that a religion is a religion and is entitled to make up whatever loony rules it likes. Why should I care? I'm not a Catholic! And I have no interest in being a Catholic priest! And I think any gay person who WANTS to be a Catholic priest is quite mad.

Now if the Vatican *ruled* me in some way, I would be upset, but it doesn't.

[Splatter Phoenix]

34. I love the way you worded that.

I read it to myself in a Disney Mad Hatter voice.

:rofl:

Very good points, however. But even so, there were some whites who participated in Freedom Rides, etc., to protect the discriminated, when they themselves were not victimized...

[mondo joe]

32. Unbothered gay man right here.

In fact I'm rather pleased that they're walking their talk.

Let's see what good it does them.

[frictionlessO]

35. There was a thread the yesterday on it, and i couldn't believe

how a few on DU will support this church and its flagrant homophobic policies.

heres the thread btw.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4836576

[iamahaingttta]

37. To me, the more relevant question...

...is:

Why the HELL would ANYONE want to join a club that is openly hostile to the very fact of their existence?

Why would ANYONE want to a be a Catholic priest if they were gay, when the Catholic church CLEARLY hates their fucking guts?

It's all pretty stupid, in my opinion. But then, the Catholic Church is pretty stupid, in my opinion.

For what THAT'S worth...

[kweerwolf]

39. Of course I'm outraged ...

... but it seem anytime a thread like this comes up it brings out those that accuse anyone of criticizing Vatican policy of "Catholic bashing" and then the flame wars begin. I guess they really don't see the difference between bashing a religion and bashing a belief system that controls its own nation ... albeit a tiny one, but one that tries to impose its beliefs on other nations as we saw in the last election.

Reacting to any nonsense the Catholic Church does on DU anymore just doesn't seem to be worth all the shit it stirs up ... so my response is just to roll my eyes and wait for those that are so sensitive to "Catholic bashing" to wake up with the Vatican jumps into the middle of an issue they care about.

[DerekG]

44. I'm a Christian, and I think the Vatican is comprised of charlatans

I've been attracted to Catholicism for some time, but I remained Lutheran, out of my disgust with Rome.