Evacuations need to be studied scientifically and then controlled

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

New Orleans doesn't look so bad right this moment, having effectively evacuated 80% out safely before Katrina.

The problem in Houston seems to be that people are evacuating from outlying areas THROUGH Houston to get to the other side and mingling with the Houstonites trying to get out simultaneously.

I live in a major metropolitan area that would be totally gridlocked in an emergency just like what is going on this moment.

Possibly evacuations need to be counter-intuitive. If the northernmost areas were evacuated FIRST, that would leave the roads clear for people who leave later. Ironically, that means that the people closest to the coast and in the most danger would leave later, but have clearer, faster routes to drive through.

When we register our cars, perhaps we could have an evacuation sticker code color and then local and state officials could say "Yellow stickers leave at midnight tonight, Orange stickers leave at 7:00 am, etc." Maybe highway routes could also be labeled - Orange Evac Route, Yellow Evac Route, etc.

Possibly have emergency fuel stations at truck weigh stations that are only opened up in times of crisis. Have emergency fuel stations set up by National Guard on both sides of the road - gas is not "pumped" - it is given out in 2 5 gallon containers. Also, designate certain gas stations as CRISIS stations - these stations will always be supplied with gas and will have special reserve tanks available only in emergencies and everyone will know where they are.

We need to get these issues resolved, because there are going to more hurricanes just like these two.

[pitohui]

1. if you wanna do something, look at those who have done it

miss. & la. have worked out a very good contraflow program based on experience

yr idea of evac. northern areas first doesn't work because those ppl won't leave as often, if i don't see lower-lying areas evac'ing, then i'm not gonna go either, i'll wait & see

you do have to evac in order, but the low-lying areas, which have to undergo regular evacs & which have ppl willing to evac several times a yr because they know the reality of these areas, (like grand isle, plaquemines, etc.), these ppl have to go first as they are in most danger if they get trapped


as recently as dennis (early august) upper jeff parish evac'd out of order, if the storm had hit, ppl in lower lying areas would have been trapped, aaron broussard (who ordered the out of order evac) was talked to, the plan adjusted, and the evac for katrina actually went surprisingly well, w. traffic flowing v. well

all those nay-sayers who want to rag on louisiana officials for being idiots are getting their instant karma, turns out these evacs aren't so easy as they look to someone sitting on his ass playing guitar & eating cake

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

3. Instant karma is a bitch

I got a bad feeling the moment I saw Rick Perry on TV bragging about how they had "practiced" this many times and how in control they were. The complete subtext was - now stand back and watch how real men handle this. He stunk up the place with his Hubris aftershave.

[malaise]

2. This is what happens when hacks and not

trained engineers are in charge of the most important social institutions. What we're seeing are half-baked plans quickly devised with a view to reducing the image damage as a result of the Katrina mess up. This is another mess.

How could they not know that mixing hydraulic brakes with oxygen tanks in slow moving traffic was a recipe for an explosion. Engineers know these things. Fuck Bushco!

[pitohui]

8. they knew but the whole bus/nagin/idiot meme meant they couldn't admit it

i don't know how to search here but if you do you'll see i (& prob. many others) pointed out that you can't load old ppl w. their equipment, oxygen tanks, etc. on any old school bus and NOT kill ppl

they had nagin in a double bind, either way they were going to rag his ass because there was no choice that could save everyone, if he'd used all those buses, ppl would have died, he's screwed, don't use the buses, ppl die, he's still screwed

a man can't win

[malaise]

10. I read that and particularly since his buses had

no air-conditioning.
Just heard that the levee is breached again in the 9th ward.

[AValdoux]

4. My question about the fuel trucks

Construction companies who run heavy equipment have transfer tanks in the beds of their pickups to refuel their equipment without moving the equipment off site. Why couldn't these have been used. I worked for a small size company that had twelve such trucks. They have service station equipment with fuel nozzles and everything.

If the call had of went out to every heavy equipment contractor between Dallas & Houston they could have had hundreds of such trucks. My husband said its because they weren't FEMA certified or in other words the owners didn't know Cheney.


AValdoux

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

6. It's also because when you put horse judges and political hacks

in charge of stuff like this - they do not have a clue about what situations are actually encountered in emergencies and how are some of these situations handled in a non-crisis environment every day. Brown and Chertoff and others of their ilk haven't been around a construction site since they were in a sandbox with their Tonka trunks in their Underoos.

[KittyWampus]

5. It'd be great to get more discussion on this. Maybe DU has more engineers

who are experienced in this sort of thing.

[Benhurst]

7. Jimmy Carter had a great idea to address this problem.

He created an agency called FEMA, staffed with trained professionals to direct and coordinate federal and state responses to emergencies.

It worked quite well until the presidency was stolen in 2000. Ever since then, positions in FEMA's management have been sinecures for the Bush Crime Family's cronies and friends.

[Igel]

9. They discussed this re: Beaumont and the Texan far east.

Apparently people were using the routes for evacuees from the coast, and clogging them.

There were a few problems. The first you IDed. People evacuating through Houston. The second was all the people that don't have the same need to be evacuated hitting the road all at the same time.

They should have blocked off two major routes from S. of Houston to well north of Houston to all local traffic: get the people from mandatory evacuation areas out using dedicated evacuation routes. It would have helped to limit the gridlock to those voluntarily leaving.

The state plan didn't assume that the voluntary evacuation order would trigger a mass exodus. It overwhelmed the infrastructure: clogged the roads, stripped gas stations of gasoline. By 10:30 or so they had gasoline being distributed in 5 gal. containers to drivers that needed it. The plan called for replenishing the gas stations, but didn't foresee the crush of people.

Not foreseeing the crush of people leaving all at once, they didn't foresee setting up the contraflow traffic patterns. That required clearing the southbound freeways for a 100 miles, and the detailed planning wasn't in place for that.