500,000 - Will Pitt

[helderheid]

Numbers
By Scott Galindez

Saturday 24 September 2005 11:08 PM

It is safe to say that there were hundreds of thousands of people marching against the war in Iraq today. Police Chief Charles Ramsey's only statement was that the organizers achieved their goal of 100,000. The DC police refused to make any other estimate. C-SPAN estimated 500,000, a number that I believe was possible from my observations. I was on the corner of Pennsylvania and 15th on the steps of Riggs bank when the march began. People were still arriving from all directions. The massive amount of people moving in all directions prevented a front of the march from forming. People just started marching on their own with no marshals anywhere near the front of the march. Thousands of people passed me before any organized contingent. The first major contingent that passed me were thousands of students with signs that said, "college not enlistment." Thousands of people later I finally saw what was intended to be the lead banner. I saw Congresswomen Lynn Woosley, and Barbara Lee, the Reverend Al Sharpton and other dignitaries carrying that banner.

Thousands of people behind that came the Iraq Veterans Against the War. Joan Baez was marching with them right next to Marine Jeff Key and dozens of other veterans of the Iraq war. Behind them was Gold Star Families for Peace. About half a block later came Veterans for Peace, with Military Families Speak Out a short distance behind them. At the time I assumed that they were in the middle of the march. I later found out that while they were not near the front they were much further from the rear.

I moved down to Pennsylvania and 13th to catch the front again and noticed for hours that there were still people heading up 15th Street. I headed to the concert at 4:30 pm, 4 hours after the march began and people were still marching past the White House, only 4 blocks from the march's starting point.

To summarize, it took over 4 hours for people clear out of the ellipse area. I have been to several large marches in Washington, DC, since 1989 and this was by far the largest.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Late Blog
By William Rivers Pitt

Saturday 24 September 2005 10:42 PM

C-SPAN is reporting the crowd size at five hundred thousand. I trust their numbers.

[brettdale]

1. keep kicked

kicked.

[helderheid]

2. Thank you!

[helderheid]

4. please nominate - I am so proud of us!

[FogerRox]

3. back in NJ - its after midnite

WE shut DC down for 4 hours-- the center of DC was ours.

I talked to some Vietnam Vets-- they said 300k showed up. The vets marched in formation, the ranks wheeled thru corners-- in a way Napolean would have been proud of.

[helderheid]

8. I AM SO PROUD OF YOU!

I was in tears all day!

[cal04]

5. They should have seen the rows of buses It was incredible

There were more buses than ever before. It took us about 20 minutes just to find our bus

[helderheid]

6. hell they shut down the metro and amtrack and we still came out on top!

[cal04]

14. We heard about that today. I just saw the article in the WP

I can't imagine how mad they were.

[MADem]

17. Two days to go, too

Monday will be interesting...

[Tigress DEM]

33. Tigress DEM checking in, yeah, 10's of thousands still moving...

after 4:30 PM when the march was winding down and I finally got there.

I heard that from the arial pics CSpan had initial estimates of 500,000-600,000 but Washington Post - which I normally like - said only 10's of thoudands with additional mention of as much as 300,000 by organizers - and since there were two groups if they both pulled 100-200 thou, plus all those who came on their own then the 600,000 is probably about right, so I say we quote that and pull back to 300,000 as the conservative, conservative estimate.

If NY Freedom Train had been allowed to roll, there would have been many more... and there were those of us stranded at the Reagan airport going in circles on the Metro which was supposedly having "scheduled maintainence" that none of the locals had heard about.

Now if this was the administration's first fauxpaux, I could say it was possiby mere incompetence, but I've ridden public transportation a lot in my day and they put these flyers up all over the buses and trains when there is going to be ANY schedule disruption because people will call them up screaming if they miss the bus and don't get to work on time and they leave them up for weeks after.

Even so, only the most moronic of dumbasses schedules the plumber during the holiday get togethers or even during their daughter's slumber party, so if you're expecting 100,000 - 200,000 for the weekend it doesn't make a lick of sense even so.

[Tigress DEM]

34. Fri Nite DU meetup @ DA RFD about 50 I was told - SAT Sign IN posted below

Thanks to LynneSin and others who organized the Meetup!

Tigress DEM & hubby Tiger
Tuesday_Morning & hubby
Melodybe
Tamyrlin79
Swimboy and Mr Swim
Lizerdbits
TokenLib
Livvy
WolverineDG
SharonRB
DoYouEverWonder
LisaLynne
LateBloomer
LynneSin
JimmyJazz
MeaganMonhey
Kimpossible
STLSaxman
VelmaD
Mongo
BuffyTheFundieSlayed
GOPisEvil
SugarSmack

[LynneSin]

57. Thank you for getting the list together

I know some more DUers came after you had left including Joan_Alpern and MrScorpio is missing from your list.

I'm so bad at the nametag/checkin thing - thank goodness you took care of that for me!!

[redwitch]

55. I was glad I only had a few stops to get to the Mall

Packed into that metro like sardines. And for the first time those outrageous elevators
didn't scare me- Hundreds of people to break my fall!

[helderheid]

7. by the way (blatant plug)

The software I developed will be presented tomorrow by Progressive Democrats of America as a tool for growing the party :) I sent 300 flyers

[Stand and Fight]

9. Kick -- to get the truth out! 500,000 + attendance. n/t

[helderheid]

10. thanks!

[me b zola]

11. Mr zola & I were there today!

It was incredible! If you were any where near the Ellipse all you could see was a sea of people (beautiful people, I might add :))

As tens of thousands of us were in the Ellipse, I could not even see a street that was not lined with people there to tell the world that we demand the immediate withdraw from Iraq.

Today was utterly breathtaking.

[helderheid]

13. THANK YOU!

[helderheid]

12. .

[Bucky]

15. I believe it was my 5th vote that put this thread over the top to "fave"

Oops. On recount, it turns out that George Bush won my vote. Sorry for the misleading exit poll.

[helderheid]

16. LMAO!

;)

[burrowowl]

18. Kick!

I trust C-Span's numbers too!

[understandinglife]

19. The pictures I've seen of the elipse and the elapsed time of folk ...

... filing past the WH, certainly confirm to someone who lived in DC from 1971 to 1979 and watched all the demonstrations prior to 1971 that several hundreds of thousands of our fellow citizens demonstrated today.

I suspect the size of the crowds will only grow until Bush and his neoconster regime are removed and prosecuted.

Thank you for these updates.


Peace.

[jmatthan]

20. Thanks Will

for this post.

The "Out of Iraq Now" movement is really focused.

I hope it stays so. Thanks to Cindy that this is so.

Like her, I hope they stay on a single point agenda, as that is the limit of Bush's brain!

[Peace Patriot]

42. "Single point agenda"? I'm sorry, I just don't agree. That was the...

mistake we made in 1967 and thereafter in the Vietnam War protests. We did not sufficiently address the CAUSES of the war: 1) war profiteers, first and foremost; b) Corporate Rule, poverty and injustice (the poor fought the war); c) the lack of humane and progressive values under our Corporate Rulers, evident in their continuing devastation of our planetary environment; and d) a humongous military machine with the most Weapons of Mass Destruction on the planet--and an economy based on war industries for the last 60 years.

What should we expect but that outright fascists would gain illegitimate control of this huge killing machine and use it to steal another country's resources?

Over a million Vietnamese slaughtered, over 50,000 U.S dead, and we did not go on to insist that this horrid killing machine be dismantled AND that our tax revenues, mostly--with the Reagan era--confiscated from law-abiding, poor and middle class American taxpayers, be utilized to benefit the American people, and to foster justice and peace in the world.

We failed because we DID NOT ADDRESS THE BIGGER PICTURE: the rich getting richer; the poor getting poorer and being used for cannon fodder; gigantic U.S.-based war-profiteering corporations and news monopolies; and the poor and the brown oppressed everywhere on earth.

This movement is NOT just about ending the Iraq war. It is about ending HOW that war COULD go forward despite the overwhelming opposition of the American people. Many people don't remember this, but it stuck in my mind, never to be dislodged. 58% of the American people opposed the Iraq war BEFORE the invasion. Feb. '03. Across the board in all polls. Before all the lies were exposed; before all the horror and costs of it were known. 58%!

That number dipped only once, during the weeks of the invasion with U.S. troops at max risk, then when right back up to nearly 60%, where it stayed through the election--and is over 70% today.

The question is HOW could this war have happened with such big opposition early on? The immediate answer is that the American majority has been DISENFRANCHISED, and, by the time of the 2004 election, was disenfranchised very directly, by two rightwing corporations, Diebold and ES&S, who gained control of the vote tabulation with SECRET, PROPRIETARY programming code--and with the war profiteering corporate news monopolies actually FALSIFYING their own exit polls (Kerry won) to fit the result derived by Diebold's and ES&S's secret formulae (Bush won). And if that SECRET, PROPRIETARY vote tabulation continues, there is NOTHING we can do to "bring the troops home." They will never come home. They will go on to Iran and Syria. And even if the Diebold and ES&S install a War Democrat in 2008, the purpose will be to get a military Draft (which Bush can't do) and to perpetuate this unjust, war-mongering economy.

That's what we're facing if we don't restore our right to vote! And beyond that, OUR RIGHT TO CONTROL OUR GOVERNMENT, and to use it to benefit all the people.

War and injustice go together! They always have. And if you don't address the injustice, you WILL have another war, and another, and another.

[jmatthan]

51. All you say is correct

but from what I have seen, the Freepers and Bush are unable to focus on a multi point set of issues.

Also their spin machine keeps shifting the target so that the issues get out of focus. (Everyone has forgotten at the moment about Rove and Plame, for instance.)

To win THIS battle you have to focus on a single issue till they have lost their nerve.

Cindy Sheehan said she was a single point issue (NOBLE CAUSE) and see the success she got - none of the other movements got anywhere near the success she has.

Once the opposition is turning tail, hit them with the next issue.

You will have them down for the Count of TEN sooner than you think.

[kster]

21. kick.nt

[chalky]

22. Yeah, bay-bee!

[Zuni]

23. I was there. I have never seen such a massive rally

100,000 is the absolute minimum. anyone who says there were less was not there

250K is likely. That was my on the scene estimate, but there were vast seas of protestors encamped in areas I only saw from a distance.

500K might be high, but honestly I would not be surprised

[texpatriot2004]

24. Wow, that number 500,000 would be a record #, right? n/t

[FogerRox]

48. I have heard that in '68 it was 500k- then in '69 it was 1 million

I talked to a Viet Nam vet who said it was 300k easy, but he said he was working a table all day

HH---- I was crying when I saw the VietNam Vets marching in formation

[ismnotwasm]

50. Just imagining that makes ME cry

I would have broke right down.
Please, please Let us find a better way than war.

[itzamirakul]

56. Million Man March...

brought more than a million men to DC.

Edit to say: The numbers in this march were definitely something to be very proud of.

Anti-war march in NYC had over a million participants also.

The media has been successful in hiding the numbers of anti-war supporters but it is finally creeping out like the flood waters in NOLA.

[cornermouse]

25. The best thing?

Bush might not have been watching, but I bet Congress, Bush's handlers, and the GOP machine were. :)

[darkenedhalo]

26. Excellent!

I wish I could thank everyone personally that went to it.

[intheflow]

27. I saw at least 500,000, too.

I've read in the NYT and The WP that the organizers estimated the crowd at 200,000. No way, no how! I went to the big repro rights rally, this was comparable. And it was waaaaaaaaay more than at either of Chimp's inaugurations, imo. A really good turnout, in spite of the lowball numbers we're being fed by the corporate media.

[DemReadingDU]

28. Just turned on CNN Headline news - lots of footage!

of Cindy Sheehan speaking in front of a huge crowd

of Jesse Jackson in the huge crowd

of the super huge march on the streets

of the mother with Military Families Speak Out (forget her name)

they also interviewed 1 mother supporting Bush

[Tigress DEM]

35. Everyone write to Media, both Good and Bad, please!

Wash Post under-reported, but they did also do an article about the ARREST of the Federal Procurement officer D... Savigan? for obstructing justice in the investigation of J. Abramhoff in regards to the investigation of his donations to DeLay.

From the media resource fair I attended in MN and from 2 media folk I met at RFD there is truth to the fact that the little guys, the actual reporter ARE interested in reporting the truth, but the editors - usually at the highest levels only ALLOW them to do it when it makes financial sense and/or won't get them in trouble with the adminstration.

So what I am saying is that media has proved they WANT to be on our side - especially those who went down to LA and gave the administration Hell for not showing up until it was too late - but can only DO THEIR JOB when WE DO OURS. We have to ride the press, at the highest levels if need be, while at the same time COMMENDING them for their best reporting so they know what we want, what will sell them papers.

If 1/2 a million people who showed up here in DC, write or otherwise notify the Post that they were here, it will need to revise it's numbers... and we should DEMAND a FRONT Page retraction AND Apology.

[DarkTirade]

29. All I can say is wow...

500,000... it's hard to wrap your mind around that number. That many people not only feel strongly enough about it to go there, make signs, fight the crowds, ect, but that's 500,000 people out of those who were able to free themselves from any obligations for the day. Imagine how many more there would be if everyone who wanted to be there could.

[gulfcoastliberal]

30. Too bad the dem leadership is so tone-deaf. Or rather, Vichy Dems.

That's what they are. Vichy Dems.

[spanone]

31. My local news characterized it as 'protesters from both sides'

also called it 'tens of thousands'. Then they went on to explain that a counter rally was scheduled for today. Another load of shit from my local newscasters.

[Tigress DEM]

36. Good thing a lot of us are still here to Counter the Counter Protesters

I intend to do it with love, because it is so hard to get at the truth and so easy to succumb to the lies being shoved down their thoats constantly.

They will know we are Christians by our love, so my arguments can be persuassive.

[tnlefty]

37. Haha the part of the "other side" that I saw consisted of 2 large

signs in a street corner ( sorry don't remember which street) and there weren't enough of them to fill that side of a city block with people 1 deep! "Our" side of the barricade quickly filled to people 2 and 3 deep in places heckling them, all in good fun of course.

[Pacifist Patriot]

43. My paper went with the statement by the DC police chief...

and twisted it. So essentially they have adopted the number 100,000 as a definitive count rather than a minimum.

[Puregonzo1188]

32. I was there

and there was definitely a huge number of people, 500,000 doesn't surprise me at all.

[bread_and_roses]

38. A kick for the numbers. (n/t)

[Judi Lynn]

39. It would be great to be able to get a more accurate tally next time

which would be harder to discount, like a central area where each marcher could drop off his/her marker which could be counted, like votes.

Surely someone could devise a more accurate method which could finally be used to explode the corporate media's great lie about how few finally turned out for an anti-war demonstration.

[helderheid]

40. Kick for the mornin!

well, morning for me. Coffee time. :)

[Land Shark]

41. kick

[Jo March]

44. When I saw the college folks, I told Kat, "Will should see this"

The arrival of all the young folks just energize an already energetic crowd. Their enthusiasm gave us goosebumps.

People were coming from everywhere, splling out from every corner. I just couldn't believe the amount of people who were coming from every direction.

I am proud that I was there. I'm ready to go again!

[helderheid]

46. I wish I could have been with you!

[Jo March]

47. I was hoping to meet more DUers than I did

I'm ready to go back. I'm ready to organize here in Charlotte. I'm ready to take on the entire * administration right now!!!

I wish that you could have been there, too! :hug:

[texpatriot2004]

45. kick it for the hunderds of thousands of American patriots. n/t

[FogerRox]

49. breaker breaker there good buddy-- we got ourselves a convoy

[texpatriot2004]

58. We got a great big convoy rockin and rollin tonight, Yeah, we got

a great big convoy ain't it a beautiful sight...so come on and join our convoy ain't nothin gonna get in our way...

[paineinthearse]

52. Don't we require links anymore?

:shrug:

[willing dwarf]

53. Needed Peace Keepers at front.

THe absence of Marshalls and Peace Keepers near the front of the parade was troublesome.

Lots of kids tried to engage in dialogue with the provacateurs from Pro-War counter protesters. The counter protesters had amplification & were eating up as much attention as they could. If Peace Keepers had been on hand, some of the energy put into shouting matches would have been refocused to a more postiive end.

This was the first protest I went to where I realized that yes, I'm ready to take on larger role as peace keeper for group. I may do the training and help out next time...

[redwitch]

54. Ok, Now I understand

why I was so confused! Thanks Will. There really were too many people to figure out where the damn thing started! I wish I could have been in many places at once, I wanted to see everyone, every group. Just not possible. As first time experiences go, this one was as powerful to me as childbirth. Seriously. And that, let me tell you, is some serious stuff! :hi:

[DrZeeLit]

62. Exactly. For a long time at the elipse it was a stand still. We sat out

and had a break while watching for movement. We had arrived at 10:30 and wandered a bit, then listened to some speeches, but couldn't figure out where to start.

YES... it took us 4 hours to march, and we didn't quite finish. We were exhausted, elated, and hungry. We loved every minute. And would do it all again.

My son met me at Dulles. He had taken the red-eye from San Diego, and I took the earliest flight from Albany, which meant I left my home in Vermont at 3 a.m.

Whew!

What a fabulous, inspiring day. The people! All the people. I can't tell you how many times I cried, laughed, and thrust my fist in the air.

Thank you. Thank you all.
Even to dare a little hope is to brighten a corner of life.

[LiberalEsto]

59. Metro ridership was up 120,000 from a normal Saturday count

according to the WashPost. And that's the count up to 5 pm on Saturday, so it doesn't include many return trips. Even if 20,000 of those extra riders were going to the National Book Festival or the environmental thing, 100,000 extra riders on the Metro says a great deal about the size of the protest, because not everyone traveled by Metro.

Plenty of protesters traveled by car or bus or train or plane. Some came a day or two early, stayed with friends in DC and walked to the site of the march. Of course we would have had even more people but the Amtrak's Northeast Corridor line was closed in NJ (stranding hundreds, maybe thousands of would-be marchers from the Northeast)

Riding in on the Metro, I met people from a group of 700 that came by bus from Pittsburgh. Their buses parked at the Shady Grove Metro and they rode in on the Red Line. 700 just from Pittsburgh! And one woman in their group was from Hawaii.

I attended the Nov. 15, 1969 March on Washington protesting the Vietnam War - and the crowd there was between 500,000 and a million. I attended the anti-nuke march in Central Park, NY, another one that drew at least a half million people.

Saturday's march against the Iraq war sure looked like a half-million people to me.

[FogerRox]

60. Yeah -- 500k--- like in '68 --next time 1 million like in ;69

[Algorem]

61. "...but it is not of the magnitude, 500,000 people outside the White House

in November and October of 1969"-Pat Buchanan,on McGlaughlin Group,nutbag,wrong again.-"Well,there's no doubt that you have the Cindy Sheehan movement,which is metasticizing.It's going to be very big this weekend and Monday and Tuesday,but it is not of the magnitude,500,000 people outside the White House in November and October of 1969.THE PROBLEM THAT THE PRESIDENT HAS IS,JOHN,HE IS IN LBJ'S SITUATION,LBJ WAS IN '68,HE ONLY HAD MONTHS TO GO.THE PRESIDENT HAS 3 1/2 YEARS TO GO AND THE COUNTRY IS TURNING AGAINST THE WAR."