To the guy who said he didn't go b/c of ANSWER

[butchcjg]

Isn't that just an excuse?

I mean, even if you don't agree with ANSWER and think there are too many signs with different messages, etc...

Is that really an excuse? You and your buds coulda gone and that'd been a few more strictly anti-war signs there in the pictures!

It's kinda like saying you're not gonna vote b/c you don't like either candidate - but then complaining about the result of the election!

Or, just becuase YOU can't get things YOUR way, you're not gonna participate at all...

Perhaps if you weren't so stubborn, the numbers would have been significantly higher. Perhaps you should just appreciate that ANSWER did spend hundreds and hundreds of volunteer hours organizing it and successfully brought together hundreds of thousands of people...

If you think you can do better, DO IT! Seriously - start planning and getting the permits now, find sponsors, etc.

But, I guarantee it - no matter who plans the protest, there will still be plenty of folks who show up with various signs - many of them with "fringe" messages. There's a lot of diversity of opinions in our movement (thank god) and protesting the war is a lot more complex than just a single plackard. Racism, globalization, etc are all root causes of the war.

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. Perhaps you should google

FBI and Black Panther Party of the US...

Perchance you should also realize he is NOT alone... thousands of people will NOT go to ANSWER sponsored events, live with it.

There are good reasons for it, and if you bother to read the myriad of them, you may learn something

What is more, some of us don't go because they dilute the message and they are anti semites, live with it.

Oh and I DID go to my local demo, alas ANSWER was not involved, if they were, I would have stayed home

[SharonRB]

16. I don't support ANSWER either, mostly because of their

anti-Semitism and related issues, but it certainly didn't keep me away. There were enough other groups sponsoring the event and the impeach and stop the war messages were very strong -- much stronger than the other messages that I disagree with.

[Just Me]

25. I've read about a few of their members.

Have you read about ALL of their members? Do you paint the entire organization based upon the singularity of rumored "FBI and Black Panter Party" stuff? That kinda',...makes me pause, nadinbrzezinski.

Have you examined the broad reaches of all walks of humanity that ANSWER touches? Does that bother you?

I get so confused by progressives who seem so quick to exclude any but the most right-wing organizations.

Explain. Please.

[symbolman]

32. Why won't they stand up for Human Rights in Cuba?

Quick answer is because they have a Cuban delegation and they are communists.

If Human Rights are the basic issue everywhere and I believe that myself then WHY do they blow off Cuba?

How about another answer.. they are BORING..

I don't speak for everyone and everyone does not speak for me, so if people claim ANSWER speaks for everyone then I want nothing to do with them.. no association..not with the lineup they have, or their history.

Let them put on their own show, if I get my way I want to put something together that makes people WANT to march away from the stage instead of wanting to open a vein or fall asleep.

THey really are self serving from what I've seen, same people speak everytime about THEIR issues, private club, private microphone, yet they claim to speak for everyone - sometimes a turd is just a turd..

[Walt Starr]

42. The Socialism and Liberation Party is my biggest problem with them

Their anti-semitic rhetoric is a close second.

Cuba Libre is not winning any points with me.

Free Mumia is the stupidest cause in the group, IMO.

Although I support Palestinian autonomy, I don't support the militant and violent rhetoric from that part of the organization, and suspect Hamas might be connected with them.

That's just the beginning. The group that supports Puerto Rico self determination are specifically anti-democraatic as the issue has come up time and again in elections and always loses badly.

There is more, if you'd care to do some homework.

[fujiyama]

51. Don't forget their featuring speakers

that are apologists for dictators worldwide.

I just don't like ANSWER. I'm not interested in hearing apologists for totalitarian regimes and demagogues on either side. God knows there are enough of those sorts on the right.

[Walt Starr]

52. That's getting more into the nitty gritty of my problems with them

I guess the older I get, the more of a political realist I become.

:shrug:

Seems to me DU is getting younger these days...

[Just Me]

63. Younger in what way, Walt.

?????

[Walt Starr]

65. I think the average DUer is about five years younger today

than a year ago.

When I was in my twenties, I would have been as naive about ANSWER as many DUers seem to be today.

[mike_c]

72. I'm 50, and I support ANSWERs efforts to stop the war....

I'm anything but naive-- I'm as cynical an old goat as can be imagined, I suspect....

[Walt Starr]

74. Yeah, but you've already admitted you'd join with Hitler

if he was against the war.

I wouldn't and couldn't. Nor could most of America.

[Walt Starr]

37. Thank you

I attend local events that are not sponsored by anti-semitic communists.

:)

[Violet_Crumble]

73. How is ANSWER anti-semitic?

Kinda curious about this one...

[Walt Starr]

75. The Banning of Rabbi Lerner

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0211-06.htm

[Violet_Crumble]

79. That wasn't anti-Semitism...

From the article:

"Lerner's crime: he had dared to criticize ANSWER."

They didn't want to give him time and space which they'd paid for because he'd openly criticised them. You can be critical of ANSWER for that stance, but that stance isn't anti-Semitism...


Violet...

[Walt Starr]

81. Look at what he (epitome of liberal) criticized them for. n/t

[Violet_Crumble]

83. I've got a suggestion for you, Walt...

It's pretty clear that yr hatred of ANSWER, socialists and communists is an obsessive and imo unhealthy one. If you want to criticise ANSWER, stick with FACTS and don't trot out complete bullshit about them being anti-Semitic in not letting Rabbi Lerner speak when the reality is that they didn't let him speak because he'd been critical of them....

Now if you can show me that ANSWER doesn't let people speak because they're Jewish, then you'll have made yr point. But until then yr just blowing hot and hysterical air everywhere...

Violet...

[Walt Starr]

84. Hmmm, I think I have a better solution

Why don't you research them and find out for yourself?

OR maybe you're just not into googling. Try looking at what the ADL has to say:

http://www.adl.org/PresRele/ASUS_12/4220_12.htm

[Violet_Crumble]

85. Yr the one making all the hysterical claims...

It's up to YOU to prove them. I personally don't have the time or yr obsessive fascination with ANSWER to go off 'researching' every half-baked accusation you throw at them. You couldn't prove this particular accusation you made, end of story...

Violet...

[Walt Starr]

86. Read what the ADL has to say

http://www.adl.org/PresRele/ASUS_12/4220_12.htm

[Violet_Crumble]

89. I see. Criticism of Israel = anti-Semitism...

I think everyone but ADL and those with an IQ larger than their shoe-size know that criticism of Israel is NOT 'anti-Israel' nor anti-Semitism...


Thanks for wasting more of my time...


Violet...

[Walt Starr]

88. More

http://www.adl.org/anti_semitism/arab/as_rallies.asp

[Violet_Crumble]

93. And still nothing about Rabbi Lerner...

btw, Walt. One of those signs the adl claimed was anti-Semitic said 'End Israeli apartheid'. That's not in any way anti-Semitic. Another thing is that being a realist, I know that there'd be a small number of anti-Semitic types at any major rally. But how does that make ANSWER anti-Semitic? Are they responsible for the views of EVERY person that turns up?

Violet...

[mike_c]

77. the usual-- they support Palestinians and condemn Israeli apartheid...

...therefore they must hate Jewish people. :banghead:

on edit-- go ahead Walt-- since I've already admitted that I'd march with HITLER against the occupation of Iraq, I must be anti-semetic too....

[Violet_Crumble]

80. LOL...

Yeah, I figured it's more a case of some so zealoted in their hatred of ANSWER believing that criticising Israel for its occupation of the Palestinians is anti-Semitism than any actual anti-Semitism...

Violet...

[Bernardo de La Paz]

2. He didn't want to support ANSWER's causes or methodology.

[Thtwudbeme]

10. I was there to demonstrate my disgust, en masse, with 100's of 1,000's....

...for this war and our Government. Not ANSWER's politics, which are relatively close to my own, or their "tactics".

ANSWER didn't play a role for me.

I also love how the anti-ANSWER types ignore that United for Peace and Justice was the co-sponser.

What about them?

Whoever skipped this massive successful demo for ANSWER's sake really f'ed up IMHO.

[bahrbearian]

3. You talking about this post

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4874239
lousy excuse not to show solidarity " think I'll just stay home and use my key board to criticize the protest."

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

4. Please see the following posts

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4891004&mesg_id=4891004

And this one

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4878874

[Puregonzo1188]

5. ANSWER was such a small part of the events on Saturday

that they are not an excuse to not go. I don't approve of ANSWER, or the way they exploit the Anti-War cause for their pet causes, but I still went and marched with 300,000-500,000 other people of all kinds of backgrounds and ideologies. Its absurd to let a few nutty fringes stop you from going.

[SharonRB]

17. I totally agree with you.

[mike_c]

6. people who won't attend ANSWER sponsored marches...

...are often the same people who castigate greens and the progressive left for requiring too much "purity" of dem candidates. That's rather ironic, don't you think? Personally, I think ANSWER has got it exactly correct-- the war against Iraq does not exist in a political vacuum-- it's part and parcel of the U.S. government's contempt for social justice and its bloody, imperialistic foreign policy, and should be addressed by the antiwar movement within that broader context. I don't agree with EVERY one of ANSWER's positions, but I agree with many of them. Even if I didn't however, I want the U.S. to withdraw from Iraq, and I cannot understand how REFUSING to march helps achieve that. Anyone who refuses to join ANSWER's calls to end the war is simply acting in their own short-sighted self-interest, IMO, rather than standing with others who at least agree on that essential point.

[MisterP]

14. the petulant think the world revolves around their snits

[KittyWampus]

44. Wrong, The Irony Is Watching The Purist Dems Who Castigate Any

Democrat who doesn't tow their line 100%. You know, the ones who called Leahy a DINO?

They seem to be the ones happily apologizing for ANSWER.

And ANSWER IS A PROBLEM. Why so many of the sanctimonious "Purist" Dems refuse to admit it is unfathomable.

And the MARCH this weekend had NOTHING to do with ANSWER. That was UFPJ.

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

67. Bullcrap. I have been told here that I am way left of center here. I am

openminded about most everything, but when I smell shit I call it shit and my gut feeling is that ANSWER is a government front. That is why I will have nothing to do with any event sponsored by ANSWER. I sat and listened to endless after endless speakers that they put up on that podium and although I believe that many of the speakers were quite sincere, it smelled like a set-up to me, to discredit All OF Those Wonderful People who marched. And it seems as I've seen from another thread here, RW radio made hay of it.

Now if you want the likes of Rove's filthy fingerprints near you, go ahead. I won't have any part of it.

[mike_c]

70. that's another kettle of fish altogether....

I don't agree that ANSWER is a dummy right-wing organization, but that's just MY gut feeling. However, if you genuinely believe that ANSWER is an agent provocateur then you're absolutely right to approach them with caution, if at all. It's one thing to refuse to affiliate with someone you agree with about the war because you don't like some other aspects of their politics, and quite another to refuse because you believe they are deliberately working to undermine you. It might turn out to be paranoid, but I'd react just as you have if I perceived the same threat. It might also turn out to be prophetic.

Still, it's hard to imagine how even Rove could spin away the participation of > 100,000 mostly mainstream Americans who marched in opposition both before and after the invasion of Iraq.

[wellstone_democrat]

7. first: tell me who funds them and who really started it

on Sept 14, 2001.

Give me that information first.

Second, tell me why they can't respect the urge by many to have a single issue demonstration? Sure, people show up with all sorts of issues but the organizers of ANSWER's stage show "kitchen sinked" the event and Iraq was a side issue at best. I heard more about Palestine when I tuned in than about Iraq.

Iraq is not just a symptom.

But, feel free to enjoy these yourself just as I feel free to skip their events until I'm a little more clear on where they come from and what their overall agenda is.

[bahrbearian]

8. The protest, at least 90% of it was the march not C-Spans

coverage of Answer's stage show. so just sit back a watch and " The war rages on."

[mike_c]

9. would you refuse to march in a REPUBLICAN PARTY sponsored...

...antiwar march? How about a Green party antiwar march? Is the political provenence of the organizing body so important to you that you would stifle your own message of opposition to the war rather than join with others whom you disagree with in other respects?

on edit-- Iraq is very much a symptom of something MUCH bigger. U.S. foreign policy has been rotten for decades-- Iraqnam is just the latest shameful chapter in a long history of imperialist carnage for corporate profits.

[titoresque]

20. I think the answer is yes

and I think they will say anything and everything to justify
pure laziness! It's easier to be critical than to get out there and BE the organizer!

Stop whining dammit.....get to work!
For christ sake! I have NO freaking clue who "sponsored" the rally I attended in Phx where 2,000+ people gathered in solidarity. I am on several local listserves and I act as one of the organizers in my area. So when I get an action alert it is my responsibility to contact everyone on the list in my area. When the people on my list received the action alert I DID not list who the sponsor was for the rally.......NOR did anyone ask! I did however see many of the people out there that I had emailed......and a few who emailed me later to say they were there and unfortunate that we did not see eachother because THERE WERE SOOOOOOOOO MANY PEOPLE!

Dammit! This is so fucking trivial.....stay home then! Or get off your ass and organize!!!!!!!!!

[Walt Starr]

46. I'd refuse to march in a Republican PArty spnsored anti-war event

but would gladly participate in one sponsored by the Greens.

Yes, political provenance of the organizing body matters.

[mike_c]

61. hmm-- for the record, I'll answer my own question....

I would march shoulder to shoulder with Atilla the Hun, Adolph Hitler, Pol Pot, and Dick Cheney if they would join me in opposing the criminal war against Iraq. Our agreement on that issue would be important enought to transcend our disagreement on others, at least for the moment of that march. But naturally, I'd wear lots of garlic around Undead Dick-- I'm not picky about whose back I'll watch at the barricades, as long as they're on my side, but I'm not stupid enough to turn my back on them....

[Walt Starr]

68. I guess that's where we differ

I couldn't make common cause with any of the evil men you named. Ever.

[Violet_Crumble]

90. I'm not picky either...

I'd even march shoulder to shoulder with Walt Starr! :)


Violet...

[SharonRB]

21. What you saw on TV was a teeny, tiny part of the day

In my opinion, the speakers were the least important part of the whole event. The march, the people, the signs, the street performers, the main messages -- all were more important than the speakers. Too bad the TV didn't really show what was going on.

[Zuni]

11. I almost did not want to go because of ANSWER

I am not going to go march in solidarity with people who cheer North Korean oppression and a variety of other revolting causes in disguise as "progressives"

They are stalinists, and they use an anti war rally to unload a shopping list of other pet projects

[meisje]

12. You talk about diverse opinions, why don't support his?

Maybe he is doing his part on his own

[sniffa]

13. we didn't go because of answer

we went because it was our duty to be seen and heard - we are the majority.

then again, if i had known iraq veterans against the war & goLd star mothers for peace were going to be there, i never wouLd have gone. :eyes:

[libnnc]

15. I knew it would bug me but I went anyway

I'm glad I went. I saw more anti-Iraq war messages than any other messages. ANSWER bugs the hell out of me but this was the only massive anti-war protest that I know of in DC. We need to quit bitching about their influence and do something ourselves.

[Just Me]

18. We are one with respect to basic human value and dignity.

ANSWER is a member of the enormous fabric of humanity, of which we are all a thread.

That is "democracy".

[Rex]

19. Scrappy, young dem leaders should have shown up

and started a fight over the microphone! Make those corp-bots pay attention to something. Brawl! Shove! Be angry, yell, scream about the plutocracy in control of our nation. I see this as a golden opportunity passed up by some Dems who I know are pretty left of center!

Seize the day!

[Czolgosz]

22. I cannot remember, was it ANSWER or Bush, Inc. who's perpetrated the war?

Whichever it was, that's the one I'm worried about and perhaps we can overlook the other one.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

23. From now on, I will attend rallies regardless of ANSWER

Just be prepared, some people are going to get booed off stage when they make asses of themselves!

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jonnyblitz]

26. and never was there a more staunch supporter of the Minutemen

on the Arizona border as he..

[Walt Starr]

36. You obviously never kept up on that one

Once shown the racist activities, I admitted I was wrong openly.

Sheesh, so many people around here whose shit don't stink.

[Rex]

28. Now you're just being Nervous!

Rex

[titoresque]

29. .....

:spray: needed that!

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NervousRex]

92. Now, now...

resorting to the dirty talk?...sniffing shit?...The OP called you out not me. Calling me an asshole?...I take that as a compliment coming from the King of argument through assertion. Because it means I hit a nerve. I rise above your filthy talk. It's funny, because I like what you post 88% of the time.

[Name removed]

96. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[titoresque]

39. WTF?

you're being sarcastic right?

[MisterP]

40. well, duh!

"you must all go to the back of the bus for the good of Der Partei! Nau ist not your time! I know nothing! Nothing! To know is to hurt Der Partei!"

[titoresque]

45. ok then....hey I don't agree with

Walt but geeeeez..I didn't see that any of us had gotten racist.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[titoresque]

50. who said that? now I'm confused eom

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Walt Starr]

59. I'm calling you on it. Post a direct link to the quote

You can't, BECAUSE I NEVER POSTED THAT BULLSHIT!!

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cynatnite]

58. I have never heard anyone on DU say that n/t

[Violet_Crumble]

82. Would that be because anything like that would be swiftly deleted?

n/t

[librechik]

27. some of us are real choosy about which dogs we lie down with

there were plenty of people there anyway. Leave Walt Starr alone. He's entitled to not go and still be a patriot.

Who cares about signs? The more the merrier. We are talking about the platform. And we can all talk about a global agenda after the current crisis.

We have to get our shit together NOW, and stop giving the appearance of foreign control of the Left. It's not good for ANSWER, either, their message is diluted too. They should be just as interested in an inedependent American antiwar movement as we are. We need to define ourselves and our message better before we make alliances that will be held against us later.

[mike_c]

33. I agree, but very few are actually organizing that process...

...and International ANSWER is one of the most successful of the lot. MoveOn might be as successful and perhaps more mainstream, but MoveOn seems to not want to take on that role, and to be blunt about it, ANY organization that really wants to struggle against the war and occupation needs to eventually face the broader political context in which those crimes are being committed. In short, they will need to unashamedly align themselves with progressive views on U.S. foreign policy and social justice-- something that organizations with mainstream political aspirations tend to fear doing. Absent that, ANSWER serves a very useful function as an organizing principle that can bring together people from otherwise disparate political persuasions to fight a common cause without themselves having to embrace-- or even confront-- all the faces of that cause.

[librechik]

69. we need to urge Move.on to do this then

they organized bakesales and stuff like that during the election. Seems like they could almost do it.

if lots of us did, they might listen.

[latebloomer]

76. Excellent points!

I don't agree with every one of ANSWER's tenets-- but they do point out the broader picture of US policy across the globe.

[Chicken George]

30. There were a few signs about freeing this man as well

...just a few years ago...Some never doubted his innocence and thankfully fought the good fight on his behalf.

Pistol shots ring out in the barroom night
Enter Patty Valentine from the upper hall.
She sees the bartender in a pool of blood,
Cries out, "My God, they killed them all!"
Here comes the story of the Hurricane,
The man the authorities came to blame
For somethin' that he never done.
Put in a prison cell, but one time he could-a been
The champion of the world.

Three bodies lyin' there does Patty see
And another man named Bello, movin' around mysteriously.
"I didn't do it," he says, and he throws up his hands
"I was only robbin' the register, I hope you understand.
I saw them leavin'," he says, and he stops
"One of us had better call up the cops."
And so Patty calls the cops
And they arrive on the scene with their red lights flashin'
In the hot New Jersey night.

Meanwhile, far away in another part of town
Rubin Carter and a couple of friends are drivin' around.
Number one contender for the middleweight crown
Had no idea what kinda shit was about to go down
When a cop pulled him over to the side of the road
Just like the time before and the time before that.
In Paterson that's just the way things go.
If you're black you might as well not show up on the street
'Less you wanna draw the heat.

Alfred Bello had a partner and he had a rap for the cops.
Him and Arthur Dexter Bradley were just out prowlin' around
He said, "I saw two men runnin' out, they looked like middleweights
They jumped into a white car with out-of-state plates."
And Miss Patty Valentine just nodded her head.
Cop said, "Wait a minute, boys, this one's not dead"
So they took him to the infirmary
And though this man could hardly see
They told him that he could identify the guilty men.

Four in the mornin' and they haul Rubin in,
Take him to the hospital and they bring him upstairs.
The wounded man looks up through his one dyin' eye
Says, "Wha'd you bring him in here for? He ain't the guy!"
Yes, here's the story of the Hurricane,
The man the authorities came to blame
For somethin' that he never done.
Put in a prison cell, but one time he could-a been
The champion of the world.

Four months later, the ghettos are in flame,
Rubin's in South America, fightin' for his name
While Arthur Dexter Bradley's still in the robbery game
And the cops are puttin' the screws to him, lookin' for somebody to blame.
"Remember that murder that happened in a bar?"
"Remember you said you saw the getaway car?"
"You think you'd like to play ball with the law?"
"Think it might-a been that fighter that you saw runnin' that night?"
"Don't forget that you are white."

Arthur Dexter Bradley said, "I'm really not sure."
Cops said, "A poor boy like you could use a break
We got you for the motel job and we're talkin' to your friend Bello
Now you don't wanta have to go back to jail, be a nice fellow.
You'll be doin' society a favor.
That sonofabitch is brave and gettin' braver.
We want to put his ass in stir
We want to pin this triple murder on him
He ain't no Gentleman Jim."

Rubin could take a man out with just one punch
But he never did like to talk about it all that much.
It's my work, he'd say, and I do it for pay
And when it's over I'd just as soon go on my way
Up to some paradise
Where the trout streams flow and the air is nice
And ride a horse along a trail.
But then they took him to the jailhouse
Where they try to turn a man into a mouse.

All of Rubin's cards were marked in advance
The trial was a pig-circus, he never had a chance.
The judge made Rubin's witnesses drunkards from the slums
To the white folks who watched he was a revolutionary bum
And to the black folks he was just a crazy nigger.
No one doubted that he pulled the trigger.
And though they could not produce the gun,
The D.A. said he was the one who did the deed
And the all-white jury agreed.

Rubin Carter was falsely tried.
The crime was murder "one," guess who testified?
Bello and Bradley and they both baldly lied
And the newspapers, they all went along for the ride.
How can the life of such a man
Be in the palm of some fool's hand?
To see him obviously framed
Couldn't help but make me feel ashamed to live in a land
Where justice is a game.

Now all the criminals in their coats and their ties
Are free to drink martinis and watch the sun rise
While Rubin sits like Buddha in a ten-foot cell
An innocent man in a living hell.
That's the story of the Hurricane,
But it won't be over till they clear his name
And give him back the time he's done.
Put in a prison cell, but one time he could-a been
The champion of the world.

[ChiciB1]

31. I Posted Something Like This Yesterday....

Glad to see more of you.... WHO ACTUALLY WERE THERE... tell the REAL story!!

For all of you complaining, maybe you can get together and plan the March YOU want, but make sure you keep out all the "fringies!"

Oh Geez, isn't that what The Idiot does at his appearances??????

[stepnw1f]

34. I Agree With That As Well (nt)

[latebloomer]

41. Butch!! Homegirl!

You started a thread!! Way cool!

For what it's worth, I was at the march, as you know, and I didn't see hide nor hair of ANSWER. (Admittedly, I did not hear any of the speeches.)

I just saw HUGE numbers of pissed-off, spirited Americans of every possible age and description, who were all unified on one point-- We need to get the fuck out of Iraq, yesterday!!

[tlsmith1963]

43. My Problem With ANSWER

I just feel that ANSWER represents the image I don't want us to show. A left-wing "revolutionary" type is just as annoying as a fundamentalist Christian or a neocon. And it scares off the people who are starting to think Bush is bad news, but are not quite ready for the people in ANSWER. I have a feeling that most of the pro-ANSWER supporters here are young people. They actually think that they can win this battle if they alienate everyone but the people who are exactly like them. I used to think that way, too, but it's not how the world works. Whoever has the numbers, wins. If you just want your exclusive little crowd, you won't win. I mean, this kind of behavior is okay if it's just about silly things like music or whatever, but we are talking about the future of *America* here! If we don't get a real majority, the neocons will continue to destroy this nation, & they will continue to oppress other countries. *No one* will have a future except the people who support the neocons. So if a former Bush supporter wants to come to our side, I will welcome them. We need to build coalitions if we are going to stop the neocons. It doesn't mean you have to become a Republican. It doesn't mean you stop being liberal. It just means that you do what needs to be done. It's called being a realist.

Tammy

[mike_c]

94. I can't speak for "most of the pro-ANSWER supporters here..."

...but I'm 50. And truth be told, my politics today are much more leftist than they were when I was "young." It takes a certain amount of experience living with the beast to really make one comfortable with radicalism.

[DancingBear]

47. I said this yesterday - I'll say it again now

I didn't give a rat's ass who sponsored this - I went because I thought this was one more way to rid ourselves of the absolute cancer that is George W. Bush.

500,000 people agreed with me.

Do I agree with ANSWER's positions in many cases? Hell no. Will I not add myself to the fray because of it? Hell no.

The key issue here is the Iraq war - for many people, it is the ONLY issue. As public sentiment turns more and more, and as more people enter the fray, ANSWER will become irrelevant. Stopping the war in Iraq and Bush's insane "country grab" in the name of some perverse neo-con worldview is THE priority, and THAT is what the movement will coalesce around.

ANSWER will fade, but if they are the ones (for now) getting 500,000 folks in one place to march against the war (remember - this is how mainstream America is seeing it - as an anti-war movement) then they have served their purpose.

People who read about this march, or who heard about it on mainstream news (the fortunate few that did) haven't a fucking clue who ANSWER is.

Nor do they care.

[tlsmith1963]

66. Okay...

...I guess I will still go to a rally if ANSWER is there. I just hope they don't try to take over the whole thing. The C-SPAN coverage made them look like a bunch of media-whores. I mean, Cindy Sheehan barely got to speak compared to them! I just want ANSWER to not be the *only* image our side presents, because we *do* need to bring others over to our side. The Iraq War is the thorn in Bush's side. It's something we can hammer him on. It can bring people to us. The Cuban 5 & Mumia are not the big issues that can get people to join us.

Tammy

[ima_sinnic]

48. yes, I agree. and watch the complainers NEVER organize a thing.

the field is wide open now, nobody's initiated the next march, why don't these anti-ANSWER people rush in to fill the vaccum? it's never "too soon" for the next demo --hell, people should be protesting continuously. someone suggested November 4, 2005--one year after shrub stole another election--as a good date for the next one. go for it!!

oh well, until the next time, when we can all gather here again to debate whether the "commies," who have been a fixture at peace and justice rallies since at least the 1920s, should have been "allowed" to participate.

by the way, ANSWER was only running the rally. C-SPAN should be faulted, not ANSWER, for covering only the rally. C-SPAN made no effort to cover the march.

also by the way, I would like a little more information about this so-called anti-semitic thing about ANSWER. can someone please quote me the anti-semitic remarks that were made at the rally?

[Burning Water]

53. Does anybody have

an accurate count of attendees? I have read 100,000. I certainly hop it is so, although it is much less than needed. I read elsewhere 500,000, A considerable difference. But what I saw on C-SPAN would lead to me guess no more than 15K in that particular area. True, that was only one area. Are there any aerial shots? We needed a big turnout. I only hope we got one.

[Walt Starr]

56. Based upon the aerial photos I saw I'd say right around

the 250,000-300,000 range.

[Burning Water]

62. Have you got

any links you could send me? I'd appreciate it.

[DancingBear]

64. I'd have to say more

I live close somewhat to D.C., and most folks use the ellipse around the Washington Monument as a barometer.

When that fills up (like for fireworks on the Fourth Of July) it holds 500,000, give or take.

Looking at the aerial shots I saw, I would say that that ellipse would have been full had everyone congregated there.

[titoresque]

78. yes heres a link of ariel pics

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4882423&mesg_id=4882423

[Burning Water]

91. Thanks n/t

[Mr_Spock]

60. You will comply...

[Walt Starr]

71. To the OP who thinks I should support Communists and Anti-semites

Sorry, I won't.

I participate in local events that are not sponsored by Communists and Anti-semites.

If you want to be associated with Communists and Anti-semites, that's your problem, not mine.

[union_maid]

87. It's an individual call

It wouldn't have stopped me if I could have gone, I don't think, but I understand how people feel. I have a friend in Berkely who is a pro-Palestinian socialist and SHE won't go to ANSWER events because the anti-semitism is so thick. They also, of course, won't win one voter over, ever.

OTOH, the mainstream coverage I saw of the demonstrations (other than CSPAN0 didn't focus on the ANSWER speakers at all, and that, I thought was very interesting. I think that if this was two years ago,that's all they would have covered. Instead, they showed it as the cross-section of Americans that it really was. So, I think it's very good that so many non-ANSWER people showed up.

[bpilgrim]

95. excellent point

welcome to DU :toast:

peace

[Moderator]

97. Locking...

This thread has run its course.