TocqueDeville tells us why ANSWER fucked up the Rally!

[trumad]

TocqueDeville's posted this Diary at KOS.... It's dead on!
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/9/25/205136/412

There were actually two events yesterday in Washington DC. One was the coming together of many thousands of Americans to voice their opposition to the war in Iraq. By all accounts, this event was inspiring and successful despite the lack of coverage from the television news media.

The other was a made for TV stage production designed to exploit the opposition to the war to promote the radical, anti-American, anti-Semitic, pro-communists (or socialist) agenda of International ANSWER, their mother ship, the International Action Center, and the Workers World Party.

And for this latter event, we should all thank mother nature for Hurricane Rita. For had this been a slow news day, and the press really wanted to stick it to us, that stage production (call it Karl Rove's dream come true) could have been beamed out to millions of households instead of just the CSPAN audience.

According to people who attended, the overwhelming majority were there for the singular cause of opposing the Iraq war. They came from all walks of life, and undoubtedly different political backgrounds: liberals, progressives, moderates and even some conservatives. By all reports, the crowd was far more mainstream then one normally expect at a protest rally.

But what did Americans watching the ANSWER stage see from their living rooms? Well, after studying the footage from my Tivo recording, I would liken it to militant, Marxist-Leninist rally.

They would have seen Peta Lindsay , one of the ANSWER coordinators who helped emcee the event, proclaim that our "movement" has come together to stand "with the people of the world against the aggression of the US government."

They would have gotten the impression that our "movement" has come together to "stand with the people of Iraq as they fight back against the brutal US occupation."

They would have gotten the impression our movement has "come together to stand with the people of Palestine as they fight for their homeland."

They would have gotten the impression that all of us who oppose the Iraq war are on the sides of the Iraqi insurgents and the suicide bombers.

Of course, the CSPAN cameras could not reveal that their "movement" did not include even 1% of the people attending the march. And this is where the "victim" part comes in.

I can find zero indication that all those people who came from all parts of the country, who crowded into buses, who loaded their families into cars, who slept on floors and sofas and in cheap hotels just to exercise their constitutional right of assembly, did so to lend support to the agenda represented on that stage.

Not even close.

I have read Meteor Blades' diary, Quit Your Bellyachin' About Antiwar Demonstrations, and frankly, I don't think he understands just what went beaming out to potentially every every cable and satellite TV subscriber in the country.

I watched it three times, taking notes for this diary, and I can tell you, what went beaming out was the apparent confirmation of the image of the left that the right has been trying to sell the American public for years. In a strictly political context, what went beaming out was a complete, political disaster.

And the worst part for me, is that it was a deliberate disaster. This event was billed as an anti-Iraq war protest. And though astute observers, a couple of which tried to warn us, knew the agenda of ANSWER and the political risk of hitching our horses to their wagon, my research and Googling tells me that hardly anyone was aware of it.

And my research also indicates that this was ANSWER's plan. They host a big rally under one pretext, the opposition to the Iraq war, then exploit that opposition to piggyback their real agenda on top of it.

How many people would have shown up for a rally to denounce the "occupation" of Palestine by Israel? Or to free the Cuban 5? Or to protest the expulsion of Jean-Bertrand Aristide from Haiti? Or to promote the the communist sympathising, pro-North Korea, pro-Castro agenda of the Worker's World Party?

I would venture to guess no more than a hundred people. But if you believed your TV, tens of thousands of people showed up to support all of these things. This is the cleverness of ANSWER's method.

Brian Becker ANSWER Coalition National Coordinater, in an attempt to play down the controversial aspects of the show, tried to explain why everyone was there:

"Why? Not because everybody in the movement has to have the same slogans on their banners. But we have to march, shoulder and shoulder against the real enemy. And he's in the White House."

But I assure you, what was beaming off of that stage was much, much more than the difference in slogans. It was another world altogether. A world that has no chance but to completely alienate the American people from the left.

I'm sorry Meteor Blades, I love ya man, but this was us getting the shaft in a politically devastating way.

A pivotal moment in the Vietnam war was when average Americans, mothers, grandmothers and people of all political persuasions joined in march on Washington. This was essential to the effort. No longer could Nixon and others characterise the anti-war movement as just a bunch of pro-communists, radical, hippy leftists. The anti-war movement had gone mainstream.

And this is what needs to happen now. Indeed, what has begun to happen now. But the mainstreaming of opposition to this war was dealt a severe blow yesterday, only negated by the diversion of a hurricane.

What should have been presented on that stage was a testament to American patriotism. A demonstration of mainstream Americans, who love their country and its people, challenging their leadership on the singular issue of this war.

If I had produced it, I would have had a giant American flag draping the backdrop. I would have assembled a cast of mothers and grandmothers as featured speakers and hosts. I would have tried to bring in as many soldiers and military personnel as possible, especially those who have advocated immediate withdrawal. It would have framed the opposition to this war as an all-American, red, white and blue patriot fest. Just short of serving apple pie to the huddled masses.

But with repeated viewings, I only caught one American flag. And it was turned upside down. There were a bunch of other flags, one in particular, which I have yet to identify. Far more important than the actual words spoken however, was the overall image of a cast of people who see America as the enemy. People who, if their political beliefs were known, most Americans would not want to be in the same room with.

Understand, this is not about my political beliefs. I'm probably as radical as some of these people in my own way. No, this is about political expediency. This is about winning over the majority of the American population to the wrongness of this war. This is about mainstreaming the opposition.

By blatant neglect, we allowed ANSWER et al. to put a radical, extremely controversial, and politically disastrous face on the otherwise increasingly mainstream opposition to this war.

And while we can be thankful that hardly anyone was paying attention, rest assured, our political enemies were. And they will no doubt use it to portray all of us as America hating, commie loving, terrorists sympathising malfeasants. Of course, that would be nothing new, and I normally advocate ignoring them and sticking to attacking them instead of defending against their attacks.

But now they have footage. And for that we need an accountability moment. They say a stupid friend is worse than a smart enemy. I couldn't agree more. And it should be clear to anyone with even the slightest political sensibilities that we have some really stupid friends. And I am not talking about ANSWER.

I am talking about those who thought it was a good idea to join in and help promote this event. Those who either did not bother to find out who they were getting into bed with, or those who knew and didn't care, should seriously rethink their judgement.

Out of all the comments I've read here, the most absurd is that, for better or worse, we need ANSWER because they are the only ones who can pull off a protest of this magnitude. What utter rubbish. Kossaks could not only do it, but do it right. In fact, ANSWER appears to have even tried to co-opt the Daily Kos logo for their flyer:

I don't know. What do you think?

I'm sorry, but these people are scum. For example, after about the third anti-Israel speaker left the stage, and the audience began to walk off, probably in disgust, one of the emcees came out and said, "We have a very important announcement about the march itself. We have a very important announcement about the march itself..."

Then they sent Gloria LaRiva from the National Committee to Free the Cuban 5 claiming that it's "not possible to move right now so yo are actually better off in staying here a little while longer cause it's totally jammed."

This, according to a friend who was there, was an abject lie. They were so desperate to keep an audience for their parade of radical speakers that they lied to the audience to keep them from joining the march.

Make no mistake, ANSWER is not our friend. And we must never again allow our real movement to be associated with them. In fact, we should do our best to make sure that no one ever shows up to one of their events again.

When I first saw the show, my first thought was that this was a CIA op to discredit the effort. That is, by the way, what they did in the Vietnam days. Infiltrate, sabotage, discredit.

I can find no evidence of that. But, regardless, we should treat them as if they were a CIA front because, effectively, they might as well be.

[David__77]

1. This is nothing but Cold War, McCarthyite filth.

ANSWER has worked hard to build a militant, non-sectoral anti-war movement. Indeed, the core of the movement does stand, and should stand "with the people of the world against the aggression of the US government." That is precisely the struggle that anti-war activists face. Is not the war against Iraq brutality, murder and aggression on a massive scale?

[KittyWampus]

10. ANSWER isn't "Anti-War", I have news for you. They're Just Against Wars

that don't put THEM in power.

[Zuni]

77. They aren't against violence and killing when their guys do it

[Imajika]

21. ANSWER supports North Korea...

Brian Becker, National Coordinator for the ANSWER Coalition, actually goes to Pyongyang to denounce America and sing the praises of Kim Jong Il.

ANSWER is a stalinist front group worthy of no support of any kind whatsoever.

[Just Me]

28. CORRECTION!!! ANSWER supports protection from the extreme,...

,...human rights abuses associated with a "rule of force" regime that holds the most destructive human WMDs on the face of the earth.

ANSWER is a SUPER-PRO-HUMAN-RIGHTS organization. Your mischaracterization of that SUPER-PRO-HUMAN-RIGHTS organization as political affiliation with ANY power,...is pathetic.

Stop mixing "politics" with humanitarian efforts. They don't mix,...ask Mussolini and Hitler and Halliburton.

[Imajika]

41. That is just laughable...

"ANSWER is a SUPER-PRO-HUMAN-RIGHTS organization."

ANSWER outright supports North Korea, defends Kim Jong il, openly praises the stalinist North Korean regime and regularly features speakers at their rallies who blame America for all the problems on the Korean peninsula and parrot North Korean propaganda.

Brian Becker even goes to North Korea where he praises their retchid marxist/juche government and denounces the United States.

As best I can determine, ANSWER is not only not an anti-war group, it is a pro war organization wherever such war brings down capitalist nations - particularly America.

ANSWER is infact a marxist/stalinist front group. It is no accident that the ANSWER umbrella encompasses a whole host of communist organizations.

Every serious human rights group condemns North Korea as one of the most barbarous, awful, abusive regimes in the world. It is perhaps the worst nation in the world one could be so unlucky to be born (unless ofcourse your a communist party functionary with high rank). Yet, Brian Becker and ANSWER find common cause with Kim Jong il. And you consider ANSWER a "SUPER-PRO-HUMAN-RIGHTS organization"? Sorry, but no person who cares a lick about human rights would have anything whatever to do with North Korea.

Your not gonna be able to sell ANSWER to me as some kind of human rights group. That is not what they are. I have been researching them since this rally, and everything I find makes me wonder just how it is that this loathsome group managed to coopt the US anti-war movement to the degree it has.

[QC]

78. The WWP also supported the Tiannamen Square massacre. n/t

[Zuni]

80. exactly. That is why they have no moral or intellectual credibility

the embryo of ANSWER, the Worker's World Party, was an offshoot of the American Communist Party. They broke off when the US Communist Party changed their tune after Khruschev denounced Stalin in 1956. They refused to denounce Stalin

almost 50 years later, they are still cheering and shilling for all kinds of atrocities and repressive regimes---making excuses for their guys.

I am sorry. I oppose the war in Iraq but I do not support North Korea or Hamas

[Zuni]

79. that is the stupidest post of the day

ANSWER supports all kinds of killing and violence when their favorite dictators do it

[StopTheMorans]

89. MY CAPS LOCK KEY IS STUCK! HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Melodybe]

2. Kicked and nominated I was there and I agree.

[Walt Starr]

24. You and I agree on something?????

DAYUM!!!!

:hug:

[Melodybe]

65. It was bound to happen eventually

Damn the ANSWER folks made me so mad, I was glad when the crowd just started marching without them.

[sniffa]

26. kicked and

i was there, and i don't agree. i knew answer was there, but the groups that i remember from my time there were iraq vets against the war, goLd star moms for peace, the raging grannies, the budhist monks (didn't catch their name), and a group of nuns who sat next to us and asked us to bLow our smoke in another direction.

i aLso remember a few persistant dicks, i mean weLL meaning voLunteers who insisted on teLLing me about a capitaList conspiracy and asking me for $.25, or $.50 or whatever i'd Like to donate so i couLd then own a newspaper expLaining this conspiracy to me.

i remember a woman on stiLts, and a group with those weird scuLptures they made dance/bounce in the air as they waLked.

in short, i don't remember answer.

[11 Bravo]

30. That was not the point of the OP.

We need to face the fact that the "librul media" ain't our friend. I believe that the intention of the OP was to point that ANSWER gave the corporate media an opportunity to focus on THEM, as opposed to noting the presence of the Iraq Vets Against the War, the Gold Star Moms for Peace, and the Raging Grannies.

[sniffa]

32. my post is more a vomiting on my part

in response to 2 days of saying the march was a faiLure because of ANSWER.

i came back on cLoud 9 for taking part in that, and captain bringdown buzzkiLL and his gang are minimizing what so many of us have just done.

[11 Bravo]

35. I hear you.

ANSWER maybe have given the media the chance to take a few shots at us, but there's no way in Hell that this was a failure!

on edit: typo

[jonnyblitz]

42. they do this everytime there is a rally, like fucking clockwork

they start their ANSWER handwringing. they are like a fucking broken record.

[sniffa]

44. it seems to be more than handwringing

some are deLiberateLy painting any DUer, and any protester, who doesn't condemn ANSWER, or regret taking part in it because of ANSWER is a commie-Lover, or an antisemite.

:hi:

[mandyky]

50. The MARCH wasn't a failure

but CSpan covered the "ANSWER rally", so anyone not at the MARCH watching on the TeeVee got the impression the anti-war movement was anti-semetic and anti-American and supported mumbia, the Cuban 5 and numeroous other communist, socialist, "play right in to Rush the addict Limpballs" agendas. Christ folks, we ain't mad at ANSWER, we would just like ONE "PEACE RALLY" TO PROMOTE PEACE AND REACH OOUT TO AMERICANS!

[Warren Stupidity]

55. you do understand that cspan has an audience of about 12, right?

So this argument that all is lost because f*ing cspan showed the stupid answer speakers is bullshit. It is just parade raining and I am sick of it.

Now about ANSWER. ANSWER is a coalition of several groups, exactly one of which self identifies as 'revolutionary communist'. The ANSWER coalition brings lots of messages. I don't like their smorgasbord issue nonsense, but I also do not believe in censorship and I certainly do not want the parade message nazis telling me what signs I can or cannot carry or what I can or cannot say so I sure as shit ain't about to tell ANSWER that they can't do their thing.

If you don't like ANSWERs many messages bring your own. They were a tiny minority of the demonstration. Forget about cspan, it is meaningless. 500,000 people from all around this country had a really positive experience. A few dozen DU'ers, most of whom it seems stayed home, had a really bad experience in their basements watching CSPAN and getting all bothered by the Free Mumia crowd.

[mandyky]

67. That is untrue and you know it

While many probably did not watch it on CSpan unless they sort of agreed(like I did not watch the Pro War rally), the so called liberal media and the GOP hate radio crew will use clips of CSpan.

For the last hour of the rally, even the people at the rally were getting restless, the ANSWER people kept saying, we're gonna march just a few more speakers.

Those of us who feel ANSWER did not do such a hot job, feel that way because we don't want Americans to think the Peace movement have to support the other stuff.

[genieroze]

70. Being that CSpan covered radical ANSWER and not much else confirms

that we are a corporate run fascist country and ANSWER is not the answer.

[Carni]

76. They pulled the same bullshit at the anti-bush rally in Jan 2001

Look at how many thousands of ordinary MAINSTREAM Americans showed up to boo that moron at his inauguration in 2001 and yet as I watched
C-span that day all I saw were the more circus like aspects to the protest...*free mumia* and all Answers assorted pet causes (at that time I had no idea who answer even was) weird chants, bongo playing, puppets, general goofy theatrical crap--I was bummed.

I had worked my ass off to keep bush out of office and it pissed me off to see all the speakers on causes that didn't have jack shit to do with bush and a stolen election.

I haven't chimed in on this topic of the Sept 24th march because I didn't realize that answer had once again tried to hijack the thing and that the media had filmed their usual *look at the fringe commies* footage (ignoring the thousands of others)

I agree with you can't we have one frickin rally that doesn't get sidelined and portrayed as a freak show?

We need one straight out rally that cuts it and dries it--IMPEACH BUSH NOW...simple message and I think 75% of the country would be on our side.

[bicentennial_baby]

36. .....

:applause: :woohoo: :applause:

[hootinholler]

39. And where was their place on the stage?

The whole point of the post is that from the perspective presened by CSPAN, you would be led to believe that the march was about anything but the Iraq war.

In none of the material before the march did I see or hear anything about it being a Free Palistine March.

Once we eject the PNAC, we can begin to help Palistine.

There is a distinct possibility ANSWER is being helped by the puppeteers.

-Hoot

[leftchick]

81. I was there and I agree as well

ANSWER is an embarrassment to the Anti-War movement. I can not believe UPJ has not cast them aside by now. They made me LIVID!

:grr:

[sniffa]

91. why, UPJ are anti-semites too

didn't you hear?

so why wouLd they cast them aside? :eyes:

[leftchick]

95. nah, I didn't hear that one

I have only heard the shit I don't agree with from ANSWER. Alive and in person. I have heard none of that trash from UPJ. They really need to distance themselves from ANSWER now. Today. Or a new and improved peace group will form. I hope.

Great to meet you and the Mrs., sniffa!

:hi:

[sniffa]

96. according to..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4911789

"United for Peace & Justice and ANSWER, two Anti- Israel groups, will gather outside Nancy Pelosi's office at the Federal Building, to protest the Iraq War, and 'the atrocities and crimes of the Israeli state.'"

according to this, they're both Loonies. i'm waiting to see the same venom for this group.

:hi: backatcha.

[hogwyld]

3. They fight for us

While I may not agree with everything ANSWER stands for, the do care about the working people, and against this illegal war.

[Oerdin]

7. Some of you...

Have less political smarts then a brain damaged lab rat and I am very glad you don't speak for our party. The last thing the anti-war movement or the democratic party needs to be associated with is with a few Marxist nutters. How while do you think that would go over with swing voters? Didn't you how O'lielly tarred and dismissed several of the pre-invasion anti-war rallies because they were sponsored by this World Worker's Party? Didn't you see how that cost the anti-war movement much of its creditability with middle America and that it has taken almost three years to earn it back?

Learn from past mistakes other wise we're going to keep losing.

[DrZeeLit]

45. Precisely! I heard many, pre-march, bemoan the missing Dem politicians,

but I completely understand why they stayed away in droves.

They can't be connected to the ANSWER radical rantings. I can see why the party is being torn, rather shredded, in many pieces. Think about all these agendas. Oi!

I loved the march. I still feel exhilarated. While on the elipse, I did feel stunned with all the stuff spewed which had no connection to why I came all the way from VT and my son came all the way from CA to make a statement about the war. Just the war. I am aware of all the other causes, but right now, I am passionate about ending the war.

I will say that I was horrified when the ANSWER group marching near us, bullhorns in hand, chanted "Intifada! Intifada!" That's advocating murder. I don't care what the agenda, murder and terrorism on either side doesn't cut it for me.

And that's NOT why I was marching. I marched for PEACE. That translates in any language.

[seabeyond]

4. i watched the whole show on cspan. i gotta agree

why i started becoming really concerned about half way thru. the more i watched, the more i was bothered. this has nothing to do with the march. what i wanted to see. the march against the war in iraq.

[TomInTib]

17. I, too, had a WTF? moment

At times it almost seemed like a triple-blind.
I think there were WAY too many agenda at work.
They should have focused on the matter at hand.
Far too many speakers whose outtakes could prove troubling out of context.

[Walt Starr]

25. My mother, who despises Bush

was terribly confused by the CSPAN coverage, which was all she saw of the thing.

[Nay]

38. Exactly. C Span just showed all the speeches and none of the

march. The speeches had little or nothing to do with why we were all there. So why hasn't there been coverage of the actual march, and what our signs said??

[mcscajun]

111. Because the majority of the Corporate Media had no coverage at all

...C-Span is all about talking heads, so all they showed was the rally.

[LSK]

47. over the years, I have been called looney, nutcase, leftist, commie, etc

This was supposed to be the movement where the mainstream was on our side. The suburban soccer moms and us normal folks had had enough with Bush and this was our opportunity to speak out. It was our time to unite in one cause, we the people were going to show our government how we felt about the war in Iraq.

So when the ONLY media coverage of this event shows ANSWER talking about Palestine, Israel, the Cuban Five, the Philliphenes, and basically trashing our government in general, the only conclusion for almost everyone WHO WASNT THERE, would be that the protest was just a handful of leftist nutcases, radicals, and commies.

[ElectroPrincess]

61. "the march against the war in iraq."

sorry our gutless Democratic Leaders feel it's best to "stay the course of death and destruction".

It's fine to disagree with ANSWER all you want. They are LEFT of even my liberal views.

However, they did do an *outstanding* job of organizing this MASSIVE rally. And for the forgoing we should be grateful. After all, we'd still be sitting on our hands if they did not get off their duffs and organize.

How about we do something like that instead of b*tch about the people who are actually getting the job done?

If we don't agree with their entire message, get these overpaid jerks we call our "democratic leaders" to begin taking a stand against this immoral and illegal war?

[seabeyond]

68. gutless Demo, overpaid jerks, we call our "democratic leaders"

cause calling people names is really effective

thanks for your tips. totally productive message. just hit it on the nose. all us losers out here, all those losers in congress

thumbs up

:sarcasm:

[ElectroPrincess]

87. by jove, I think you've got it ... ! LOL

As much as my feisty side - would like to touché and, in turn, twist your arguments into "the bizarre" as well <sigh> ... I'll just let it go and resist the temptation to slap-back.

Have a beautiful day SeaBeyond and I look forward to catching you again in the near future. :hug:

[seabeyond]

90. lol lol lol

yup

you are funny. :hug:

see ya then
:toast:

[Fla Dem]

97. I started watching, turned it off, disappointed and shaking my head.n/t

[LSK]

5. I agree completely, we took a step back from becoming mainstream

Anyone who tuned into CSPAN did not see mainstream America protesting the Iraq War, they saw radicals making speeches about issues many have never heard of.

[Zynx]

9. It's important to make the opposition to the Iraq War clear and simple.

I agree. We should not make alliances with marxists, communists, and other radical leftists for this. Mainstream America is on our side.

[KittyWampus]

6. Thanks to the half million people who took the time to go protest in DC

:toast:

[pretzel4gore]

18. actually, thanks to pigmedia for saying only 'a few thousand'

all those bushevik sorts who tried to hijack the protest (from what i understand) and misrepresent it's fairly straight ahead agenda as something else thankfully did it all for naught...even local media mentioned it as an 'anti war' protest that drew only about 100k....
sometimes the pigmedia does us good....lol

[KittyWampus]

8. Some Enterprising, Inspired Leftie Will Have The Imagination & Inclination

to start organizing rallies for the Left.

There's a decent salary to be made doing such rewarding work. Not that someone would be doing it for the money, but a soul has to eat.

I have a job, but have started several very small businesses and organized a couple of clubs that were highly successful.

It's a lot of work but worth it.

The American Left is comprised of the most creative people on earth- we can do better than ANSWER and WILL do better.

Some talented Leftie out there must need a full time job.

It's a golden apple ready for the picking.

[baby_mouse]

13. Like Tony Blair?

Be careful what you wish for.

[KittyWampus]

23. isn't he going to be making a huge salary at the Carlysle Group soon?

[baby_mouse]

83. GAH!

Yes, probably.

Oh, not today. I've spent ages being wound up about politics, I need a brief rest...

[blondeatlast]

11. The PERCEPTION was the REALITY for C-span viewers.

I was home with stomach flu on saturday. I tuned into C-Span's coverage in great anticipation--when I saw it listed as ANSWER's rally, my experience with them in the past made it an "uh-oh" moment.

I tuned in anyway, fully expecting C-span to feature the march eventually.

I watched for an hour--no march, just ANSWER becoming increasingly shrill. I turned it off, then returned after a nap--still ANSWER--this time with over-the-top more of the same.

I'm sorry--I feel ANSWER has it's place, but they should realize that PR means everything in this sorry world; and the face they showed to the average Leftist in TV land was not an attractive one--and we will ALL answer for that in the future.

[Mandate My Ass]

12. "I'm sorry, but these people are scum."

When I first saw the show, my first thought was that this was a CIA op to discredit the effort. That is, by the way, what they did in the Vietnam days. Infiltrate, sabotage, discredit.

I can find no evidence of that. But, regardless, we should treat them as if they were a CIA front because, effectively, they might as well be.

Sounds just like the rantings of a rabid, ignorant, paranoid, uninformed, narrow-minded, salivating freeper to me. :shrug:

[Liberal Dose]

15. You might want to do some research on A.N.S.W.E.R.

Did you watch any of it on C-SPAN? Disheartening, to say the least. If I had not known what was really going on in DC on Saturday, I would've thought it was a Communist group screaming to a very small crowd.

[atim]

19. Research On Answer at sourcewatch.org

Political Connections
David Corn wrote in November 2002 that International ANSWER (Act Now to Stop War & End Racism) is run by Workers World Party (WWP) activists "to such an extent that it seems fair to dub it a WWP front. Several key ANSWER officials — including spokesperson Brian Becker — are WWP members. Many local offices for ANSWER’s protest were housed in WWP offices. Earlier this year <2002>, when ANSWER conducted a press briefing, at least five of the 13 speakers were WWP activists. They were each identified, though, in other ways, including as members of the International Action Center.

"The IAC, another WWP offshoot," Corn wrote, "was a key partner with ANSWER in promoting the protest. It was founded by Ramsey Clark," who was attorney general for President Lyndon B. Johnson.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=A.N.S.W.E.R.

My personal experience is they are a front with unseen agenda for fascist NWO, as is Moveon which started at grassroots but hijacked by capitalism's golden boy and donor George Soros whose open society activities is to pave the way for greedy capitalists in the name of democracy!

So BEWARE of any organization you support...many are fronts in both right and left to manage conflicts and steer outcome towards global capitalist agenda.

[pretzel4gore]

20. are you saying misrepresenting a popular protest

against a stupid war that kills innocents every day is a good thing? i understood that sept 24th march in dc was against the bushwar.....and that was it.
the first time i heard of 'answer' was post march, and how in hell busybodies got involved in this thing in the first place...well, i think the pigmedia knows how to neutralise popular protests anyway, and thus maybe 'answer' should go ahead and hijack all popular protests it wants (thus at least we get to enjoy the spectacle of the pigmedia inadvertantly protecting us from some pretty dreary pr!)

[yebrent]

14. I took my friend to his first anti-war rally in SF on Saturday.

He asked if we could go when they started talking about Palestine. I'm not sure if ANSWER put on the SF rally.

[H2O Man]

16. Interesting and thoughtful thread.

I nominated this, because I respect the opinion of the OPer, and think this is a valid discussion of the important issues being tossed about on a number of threads.

[GOPAgainstGW]

22. It Also Bothers Me C. Sheehan supports NO Key Democratics. This hurts!

I saw the huge thread of DUers blasting the Dems for not showing up to support the Sheehan anti-war rally last weekend, but how could they when on Hardball, this evening (9/27/05), Sheehan said she supports no key Democratics. Not Bill Clinton, not John Kerry, not Joe Biden, ZERO, when Matthews asked her about each.

SOOO, what is this women, and this anti-war movement doing to help get BushCo thrown out of office and key Dems into office? I mean am I missing something here? Isn't that what it's about and why we are here at DU?

I mean, when John Kerry came back from Vietnam and protested the war, he had Ted Kennedy and key Democrats behind him AND John Kerry scared the hell out of the Nixon Administration and made a difference in stopping that God forsaken war that killed and injured over 8 million people in Vietnam/Southeast Asia.

Does Cindy Sheehan think she can stop this God forsaken Iraq/ME war by herself, using ANSWER, and without key political support? I'm sorry, that just stupid.

Just My 3 Cents

[SlowDownFast]

27. I don't have a problem with much of what ANSWER's

coalitions espouse.

I have a problem with them diluting the message and purposely using the anti-IRAQ-WAR/IMPEACH * movement for various other messages.

They are subverting the mainstream left and the growing potential to rally the rest of America against the war and against *.

Anyone who cannot understand this simple point understands nothing of real politics.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

29. How're things in hell, Senator McCarthy?

But, the "moderates" can feel good about playing it safe by being good obedient "anti-communists" and not "too liberal".

The usual DLC crappola.

[wildeyed]

31. I went to the protest.

I have really mixed feelings about it. I thought many of the 'radical' speakers were interesting. I didn't agree with and in some cases even understand what they were saying. But it was interesting to listen. I also thought there was way too much screaming going on. And they went on way too long.

I didn't see the coverage on TV, but point taken about the PR aspects. It really is more about what it looks like on TV than about what it was for real.

The march itself was brilliant once it finally got going.

On balance, I would love to protest again, but I doubt I will if ANSWER is involved.

[LynneSin]

33. The more I read about this stuff the more I want to avoid ANSWER

They are taking away from our message of Anti-War/Anti-Bush and trying to push their pet causes, some way too radical for the majority of people in attendence.

There are other people who have the power to organize these protests other than ANSWER. UPJ needs to push IA out of the picture and do it themselves. Or Move-on, they could do it too. And we know the Planned Parenthood/NARAL folks can put together a great protest even though their cause is choice

I'm starting to become very anti-ANSWER. There are people speaking at these rallies that not only speak of things I don't believe or support (Any time those free Mumia idiots show up) but I think they're alienating many more especially with their strong pro-palinstinean slant (You want to protest Isreal? Start a protest just for that cause - don't latch on to ours)

[JerseygirlCT]

34. "But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao"...

Your post makes a whole lot of sense.

[mountebank]

37. I'm glad no one was watching, except me (TV on mute) and a few others

This is one case where I think no mainstream TV coverage was fortunate for the cause.

It is important to plan another march led by a more mainstream organization - quickly.

[Peace Patriot]

40. Your argument might carry some weight--as to public relations and

theater, anyway (if not to democratic process)--if the "American mainstream" needed winning over on the issue of the war. They don't. The great majority of Americans have opposed the Iraq war from beginning, before the invasion. 58% of Americans opposed, Feb. '03, across the board in all polls.

That number dipped only once, during the few weeks of the invasion with U.S. troops at max risk, then went right back up to nearly 60%, where it stayed throughout the election. It's over 70% today.

Most Americans also oppose torture. 63% are opposed to torture UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. May '04.

In fact, the issue polls over the last year show huge American disapproval of every major Bush policy, foreign and domestic, way up in the 60% to 70% range.

Support for Bush is almost nil--and has been for some time--on all issues.

That is not the problem. Americans do not need convincing. The problem is, HOW is this huge progressive American MAJORITY so disempowered and so DISENFRANCHISED?

If I had been able to organize this demonstration, I would have packed the stage with speakers talking about Bushite corporations--Diebold and ES&S--tabulating our votes with SECRET, PROPRIETARY programming code, and the TV networks, acting in concert, late on election day, to FALSIFY their own exit poll data (Kerry won) to "fit" the "official result" derived by Diebold's and ES&S's secret formulae (Bush won).

I think that's the heart of the problem. That's WHY nobody is listening to the majority--on this or any other issue.

And who's to say whether Americans might want to hear about Haiti, or communism, or socialism? They might be good and fed up with predatory capitalism by now! Did you poll the C-SPAN audience? Who are you to make broad generalizations--based on no evidence, just your own opinions and P.R. notions--about what most Americans might have thought about these speakers?

About a year before the election, I became interested in the opinion polls, because I really wanted to find out what Americans were thinking--as the basis for an activist strategy. I thought it was POSSIBLE that many Americans had been hoodwinked by all this rightwing garbage--maybe because of the corporate news monopolies drumming it into their brains 24/7. Was the problem educational? Did Americans need to be de-programmed? Or was it something else?

I was astonished at what I found out. Most Americans are PROGRESSIVES--in huge numbers! They haven't been hoodwinked. They are not fearful. They are not stupid. They are not brainwashed (except as to believing that they are in the minority). They never supported this war. Never! They saw through all the lies and propaganda. And they oppose Bush on everything!

So when I think of us on the left having to get out the big hook and pull all our whackos and extremists, and strident "workers of the world unite!" people off the stage, to please (...ahem, and maybe to HOODWINK?) this mythical "American mainstream," I just have to laugh. For one thing, they wouldn't be fooled. They know we're all radicals and leftists--the people who bother to organize anti-war demos. Some of them are, too--maybe a lot them. And maybe a lot of them have their own pet grievance against the predatory capitalist war profiteers, and would like a place on that stage.

And maybe it's time for those who have been marginalized to be heard. Maybe that motley crew of speakers will inspire people to think that everyone deserves to be heard, and maybe they can be, too.

I think that the great majority of Americans rose up, on Nov. 2, 2004, and threw the Bush Cartel out--but were betrayed by the very party that they had turned to in such big numbers to save the country (--the Dems blew the Repubs away in new voter registration in 2004, nearly 60/40, mostly the work of the antiwar grass roots); the party that PERMITTED Bushite companies to gain control over the vote tabulation, with no objection whatsoever, and no warning to voters--out of corruption and collusion.

That is one matter on which Americans are NOT savvy. They don't know HOW they have been disenfranchised. They trusted the Democrats, and democracy. And many don't realize that they are part of a great progressive majority.

I think the voters' prime motive was the Iraq war--but it was by no means their only motive. They were also voting against torture and the breaking of international law, and many kinds of injustice, including injustice against themselves.

So, I don't think it was inappropriate to bring many issues up in this antiwar demonstration. The forces and policies that led to unjust war are complex and not easily solved. And if we don't address those complexities, we'll surely have another war just like this one.

You singled out people who spoke against Israel and for the Palestinians as especially offensive to you--and, in your presumption, offensive to others (although you present no evidence for this). But the Israel/Palestinian conflict is at the heart of Mideast unrest, and unless it is understood, no peace initiative can succeed. Americans almost never get to hear the Palestinian, and Arab/Muslim, point of view. Why shouldn't they hear it? Why shouldn't that viewpoint have advocates, and a platform? Why shouldn't we listen? What is the harm in that?

I don't fear any taint from boring speakers--or even ranters? If they are unsuccessful speakers, I pity them. I try to think past their inexpertise, to their cause, to what they are saying, and who they are representing. What makes you think that Americans cannot distinguish between what is genuine and what is not, and between what is important and what is not, in a speakers' roster?

I think your discussion is somewhat insulting to Americans--as if they have to be cozened, and "managed," and subjected to P.R. and propaganda techniques (just like the Bushites do), in order to sway them to your view. I also don't see that a raw expression of unusual views that don't ordinarily have any venue of expression does any harm, and it might do some good, as sheer, exuberant, crazy Americana FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

I think this display of opinion by the ANSWER speakers has zero to do with swaying any viewer on the war. American minds were made up on that a long time ago--with a big majority against it. And now that they are probably looking at CAUSES, you want people to shut up about Israel and Palestine?

You have something of an agenda there, in my opinion, trumad. That's usually what gets people off on a rant against ANSWER--the pro-Palestinian speakers.

But even if you don't have an agenda, I think you've misread what the anti-war movement is about, and are trying to force it to be something more to your liking: a single-agenda movement.

Martin Luther King rejected that idea, back in the '60s, when he came out against the Vietnam war, and when he joined the garbage workers' strike. He knew that you cannot isolate one injustice from another. You have to see the whole.

Speaking of the Vietnam antiwar movement, as one who was there through it all, that movement was "mainstream" from the beginning, as is this one. I remember in 1967, in San Francisco--one of the first big marches--walking besides mothers with baby strollers, and suited businessmen, and remarking on the cross-section of people who were participating. The same thing was true at the huge Century City march in Los Angeles--mostly "mainstream." We also had our whackos and "weathermen" and socialists and communists and theatrical types. That didn't stop anybody from being against the war, or protesting the war.

Your point about the Vietnam antiwar movement BECOMING "mainstream" is wrong. It was always "mainstream" and it always, at the same time, included hippies, and flag-burners, and people who threw blood on draft files (Catholic priests!), and all kinds of folks.

That's what it's all about: all kinds of folks, none excluded. That's what peace is about. That's what real democracy is about.

It is not about manipulating people with P.R., or forcing YOUR single issue agenda onto millions of others, who have a lot more on their minds than the war, and might very well like to hear a variety of opinions about its root causes, and about the many octopus-like ways that those root causes affect us all.

Putting American flags all over the stage is not a bad idea. I like it, actually. I feel very patriotic myself, and have discovered in my far out leftist way, during the years of this Bush junta, just how much I cherish American democracy. I have never not cherished it, but I feel it more now--now that we are in such danger of losing it. But this was NOT my production--or yours. There are a lot of people who don't feel that way about the flag. To them, it IS a symbol of oppression--and I cannot argue with the facts that they base that feeling upon.

So they didn't go the P.R. route. So what? So they didn't stick to what you think the point was. So what? I'm glad that nobody got evicted, and excluded, and shut down as "too radical." To hell with that, and with what C-SPAN did to the march, and with what foaming at the mouth rightwing corporate dogs say about it. Who cares what they think? They do NOT represent the majority! And the majority is obviously not listening to THEM.

[Binka]

85. Best Post In This Thread

From one of Du's top FIVE best and brightest posters. Your closing paragraph speaks VOLUMES. Kids pay attention here somebody is really thinking things through.


"So they didn't go the P.R. route. So what? So they didn't stick to what you think the point was. So what? I'm glad that nobody got evicted, and excluded, and shut down as "too radical." To hell with that, and with what C-SPAN did to the march, and with what foaming at the mouth right wing corporate dogs say about it. Who cares what they think? They do NOT represent the majority! And the majority is obviously not listening to THEM."

I am so glad you post here on DU you make me stay when my hair has caught on fire. Please don't go anywhere PP. :loveya:

Hey Warren Stupidity & H20 Man you are also in the top 5!!

[tlsmith1963]

43. My Reply

This morning, I saw posts from people who went to the protest completely energized & then couldn't understand the negative atmosphere at DU when they came back. I was one of the individuals who was trashing ANSWER, & I apologize if I made anyone lose the good feeling they got from the protest. It really wasn't my intent. I still feel the protest was a success. Our side had a lot more people than the other side had. What set me off about ANSWER was the way the C-SPAN coverage was slanted. They made it seem like everyone was there just for ANSWER & its' causes, just like the original post in this thread said. I would have preferred to see the march, too. That would have balanced it out better. ANSWER can speak out all it wants, but I do think that the antiwar movement needs to go more mainstream if we are going to stop this war & get rid of Bush. I want to continue the momentum. It seems like every time we get momentum, Rove finds a way to kill it. I don't want to give Rove any more ammunition to use against us. The Vietnam protests *did* attract people from across the political spectrum. That's why they worked. So we have to do this again. We have to make certain that even moderates are welcome. ANSWER doesn't make them feel welcome. Sorry, but it's the truth. I am not trying to be mean, I am just telling it like it is.

Tammy

[WildEyedLiberal]

46. This is EXACTLY why no prominent Dem was at the rally.

They know that ANSWER stands for aggressive anti-American rhetoric, and therefore they are staying as far away as possible. Thank you for pointing that out. It's a damn shame that the message of thousands of REAL Americans marching against an unjust war was lost amidst a milieu of anti-American, anti-Israel garbage.

[sniffa]

48. yeah, that's exactLy why

not because they'rs spineLess.

no prominent dems, just some whackos Like mckinney, jackson, sharpton, and waters. this protest needed the backing of joe biden and joementum for it to count.

[WildEyedLiberal]

49. Fair enough about the ones who showed, but seriously.

Why would any mainstream Dem tie him or herself to ANSWER and its anti-America agenda? It's "spineless" for Democrats to not support rabid anti-Americanism? :eyes:

[sniffa]

51. way to set the goaL post

it's spineLess for one of the "prominent dems" to take a fucking stand against this war.

[WildEyedLiberal]

52. But the rally wasn't anti-war, that's the point

The march was, and the rally should've been. But the rally was hijacked by ANSWER and turned into an idiotic anti-Israel anti-America hatefest.

[genieroze]

71. Well maybe some prominent Dem's should have went and put ANSWER

in their place. This group seems to be a radical bunch of nut-bags and should be called on it PUBLICLY by someone who will get media attention. Namely some prominent Dem's who will put the anti war sentiment where it belongs, in the hearts of average Americans.

[lateo]

53. ANSWER is anti-Semitic?

Links?

[yurbud]

54. by lobbyist and PR firm logic, if you criticize my client, you hate them

Why is it we can disagree with the policies of any of our other allies without being called racist?

[lateo]

56. So...

What exactly has ANSWER done that is considered anti-Semetic? Is this just some knee-jerk nonsense from the Pro-Israel faction?

[Czolgosz]

59. I've been asking this same question all day. If you ever get an answer,

please pass it along. As far as I can tell there are some groups within the ANSWER coalition that wish to use international courts and the legal system (not terrorism or violence) to press for Palestinian rights in Israel. Calling such a movement "anti-Semitic" is like calling someone who seeks to use non-violent, legal means to question our current administration "anti-American." That just gives me the heebie-jeebies.

[lateo]

99. So far...

I have questioned everyone who has made this claim and gotten no reply.

[Czolgosz]

100. Me neither. Whatever they did that was anti-semitic and "violent" in its

anti-capitalism must be a closely guarded secret.

[Dorian Gray]

73. well...

The poster didn't SAY anti-semitic. The poster said Anti-Israel, which in many threads re: Answer has already been addressed.

Look, I'm tired of the ANSWER argument. The march was a great success. The rally turned some people off, and it seems to have been coopted by right wing pundits who are using it to show how "loony" the left is.

At the end of the day, some people don't want to associate themselves with that type of rhetoric.

I personally don't know what Free Mumia has to do with Iraq. And though I know ALL of the Middle Eastern politics are intertwined, the Israel/Palestine conflict shouldn't have been highlighted at THIS rally.

That's just me and my preference. I'm not condemning anybody. I'm entitled to my thoughts, and I'm nervous about this war, this rally, and how it's playing to the American people. I have a very good friend over there in Iraq, and I want him to come home now. I want the killing and the hatred to stop. But, if this rally just continues to polarize Americans, the likelihood of that happening may be less.

I hope it did more to raise awareness about the vast numbers who do NOT support the war.

[lateo]

84. Actually....

Yes, they did.

The other was a made for TV stage production designed to exploit the opposition to the war to promote the radical, anti-American, anti-Semitic, pro-communists (or socialist) agenda of International ANSWER, their mother ship, the International Action Center, and the Workers World Party.

[ElectroPrincess]

93. Wow!

You know bolding an un-truth doesn't make it true.

I have NO stake in this "since the beginning of time genocide." I'm not Jewish nor Muslim. In fact, I have neither Jewish or Muslim *close* friends.

However, I'm holding my breath for the next "shoe to drop" and the pro-zionists to tell us to "STFU and listen to PNAC" because we ALL should feel guilty about the Holocaust during WWII.

I wonder if many of those beautiful people who suffered in concentration camps were alive now ... what would they think of what their children and grandchildren are doing to the Palestinian people?

My only point: It goes both ways! However, when the theocracy of Israel has all the power and money, don't be surprised that the Palestinian underclasses are lauded as the underdog.

[lateo]

108. Indeed...

I'm still waiting for someone to explain this accusation against ANSWER.

[BrklynLiberal]

57. Too bad LINKTV and FSTV are not more widely available. Their coverage of

the march was fantastic. Amy Goodman on DemocracyNow! showed the marchers and conveyed the true spirit of those of us that were there to protest the war.

Of course, the unanswered, or better yet, unasked, question is, why was CSPAN the only choice one had if one wanted to see the protest.

[Czolgosz]

58. Blah, blah, ANSWER, blah, blah, anti-Semitic, blah, blah, commies.

Can't anyone simply declare victory as a result of one hell of a successfully executed protest and just move on?

I've seen so much crybaby whining about ANSWER over the past days that I'm wishing the admins would just create a new "I hate ANSWER" forum so all the whiners could post there ad nauseum and I could simply avoid that forum like it was a chat room for the Lindsey Lohan fan club.

Sweet Holy Mother of God! You would think you'd be glad there are people to the left of us (because you know there's a shitload to the right of us and they get along under one tent without bitching about each other a hell of a lot better than some of the "ANSWER is a cancer" crowd).

Some of you ninnies seem to be more worked up about ANSWER than you are about the friggin' war.

[ElectroPrincess]

60. And since when do we bow to "Daily Kos" as the #1 source?

for news. Granted it's better than the "Moonie Times" and "Fox" but sometimes, IMO, they can get a little Neo-Progressive = Pro-Corporations and Israel above all else.

[Czolgosz]

63. Does it seem that Daily Kos moved toward the Neo-Progressive (as you say)

more so after the election? Sometimes, it seems almost like he's a senator thinking about running for president in '08 and trying to reposition himself as more moderate.

[ElectroPrincess]

66. To be honest - I don't know?

But one think I do know is that the worst mistake we can make as a nation is go to war with the Arab world. Dubya and his crones have already stirred the hornet's nest in the Middle East.

All I can do at this point is Pray for Peace. I fear the next few years. May God have mercy on *all* our souls. :grouphug:

[annabanana]

72. hmmm..

[fishnfla]

62. Seems like ANSWER is worked up about more things than the friggin war too

n/t

[Czolgosz]

64. No dispute about that. Maybe the anti-ANSWER folks should just show up at

the next pro-Palestinian event with "Bring the Troops Home Now" signs and we could call it a draw.

[qanda]

69. "more worked up about ANSWER than you are about the friggin' war."

EXACTLY!

[earth mom]

74. ANSWER hijacked what little media coverage of the protest we had

and that is a MAJOR deal. Sure ANSWER has every right to do their little spiel but the total focus on them by C-span was a severe blow to what everyone at the protest was trying to accomplish which was to gain support to Stop the War. Like it or not, the Peace movement needs the media and instead of getting the positive coverage it needed it got ANSWER which was the wrong answer!

People can be in denial about ANSWER and pretend it had no effect, but there is no doubt that the C-span coverage didn't play in Peoria.

[bridgit]

75. the suffering of this war, the lies it took to start it, the apathy yet...

to be addressed; the whole sticky wall of voodoo is already being co-opted by too many imo, even here on the left. i don't care two figs for ANSWER, but i do care about falling into the same ole, "i was standing at thee right/left podium over the weekend in dc and you were not i am therefore more concerned than you are" claptrap. avoid it.

impeach: g.w. bush, in either event, take back this nation.

[Jose Diablo]

82. Isn't what we see here an analogy of what's going on in our country

It is the winner take all system that requires that whomever is elected to represent 'We the People' be able to gather a large enough sample of people to represent the whole.

When the country was founded, representatives had a home district of what, 35,000 people I think it was. Now that number is about 250,000. With a certain amount of gerrymandering, just about the only people that can be elected to the house are those with very deep pockets. Those with the backing of the wealthy in the community.

Now couple this with a 'winner take all' electoral system and what we end up with is a system that only represents 'We the People', just as long as you are wealthy.

For example, I doubt it would take many on this board if they were vocal to slant every discussion toward one extreme or the other. Maybe a couple hundred would do it. Would it be a big tent? No.

The Republican Party has been captured by 2 groups. The corporatist, might as well say the fascists, and the right wing fundamentalists. Are all the Republicans represented by these 2 groups. No, I don't think so.

Is it possible that our own party has also been captured by selected groups that because they are organized and vocal, they win elections, but do not represent a majority of the Democrats, only the wealthy Democrats. Are the economically challenged represented by our party? Who speaks for these people? The Republicans don't, nor does the DLC. Is it any wonder that a huge number of people see no reason whatsoever to vote? Oh, I know, it's because they are ignorant and don't know better. Right. Maybe they do know better. They know the system sucks and is designed to screw them.

I would submit, the core problem we are seeing in our country is due to the electoral system's winner take all and the huge number of people represented by the individual representatives guarantee that only the money is represented. Raise the number of representatives to closer represent who elected them, I'd suggest a smaller number like 50,000 voters to each representative. Throw out the winner take all feature, use proportional electors. Get serious about stopping gerrymandering voting districts. This should then force the legislative bodies to begin to form blocks of interests and negotiate if they hope to pass anything. Be less divisive and more responsive to the needs of the people that elected them. As a body I think it would be more representative of 'We the People'. The 2 party system is the core problem.

Now as for the Senate, I am not sure we should go back to the appointment system used before. But a lot can be said for giving the State Governors a tad more power when dealing with the president. This view won't make me popular even here, because Federalism is another way for a minority of voters to gain an upper hand in society by overturning local control of money spent by the government. But as long as the voting system IS working and none is excluded from voting a more locally controlled government is better for the people.

As a side note, how is it that the Fed's are involved in everything in our lives, yet the things they should be involved in, like making sure elections are on the up and up, the feds are nowhere to be seen. It should be the other way around. Why do they feds have most of the money, yet little of the responsibility?

Electing the president should be a straight count of the voters and having a president that doesn't have the plural majority should never happen.

I don't think ANSWER should have had the news coverage it did. But they did and I doubt if mom and pop out there will feel the anti-war movement is something they can get behind with ANSWER as the face of the movement.

[Beam Me Up]

86. Good points.

First we need verifiable elections. Without that, nothing else is much worth talking about.

Second, we need a media that is responsible to MORE than merely its corporate owners and sponsors. We do not have that in this country -- except to the extent that the internet provides it to us.

With those two things, real progress on other fronts can be made. Without them, little can be done.

[ElectroPrincess]

88. Well thought out arguments ...

Too bad ANSWER is grandly successful at organizing and the crones in the Democratic Party ain't worth shit because they are oh so afraid of the left. What is this crap about being AFRAID? At least they care about their memberships.

I am not ashamed as were many middle class Mom and Pops to march with people who CAN ORGANIZE and concur with ending this war. Look at the crowd and you will see many of us "main-streamers" or are liberals who you are afraid of as well as the so called Commies?

What is all this fear about? Get out and do something - Answer is flaky but they are not openly violent. There's no excuse for those Moms and Pops who are against this Un-Holy war not to join with ANY half-way legit group who takes the time to organize such a massive protest.

If you feel a need to belittle a group, instead of ANSWER, how about we look within ? Or at least choose the Democratic Leadership who couldn't organize their kid's field trip to the local Zoo? :P

[symbolman]

92. Yeah and then I can call her

"Mommie the Commie"..

Do some research on this organization please.

[ElectroPrincess]

94. Yes, I have done research on this organization ...

HOWEVER, I'm NOT a purist. If you want to be then prepare yourself and your children for corporate fascism.

There is something irritating about those who will NOT work with others who are NOT like themselves. We don't have to agree to support the SAME cause.

You are afraid. I am not afraid of the truth.

[symbolman]

112. That's like saying someone is afraid of a fart

I'm not scared of flatulance I just prefer to NOT be around it..

These guys are dirty and Boring, who needs them?

A lot of people WON'T when offered something better, and I'm going to work towards that.. we CANNOT let these people represent us..

What if they had Child Molesters on their boards is that okay with YOU?

"Well, as long as it doesn't distract from the message.."

WHAT MESSAGE, that they are COMMUNISTS, MAY be taking money from the SAUDIS, Bush supporters and Biz partners,people who Killed OUR people on 911, real TERRORISTS..

Get real, the message DOES no allow for people with that kind of baggage, the american people will RUN just like their audience did then they "bait and switched" them.. they were DISHONEST and if you have dishonesty in your party you CANNOT accuse the other side of it..

it's that simple.

[Jose Diablo]

102. I am not afraid of the liberals or of the so called commies

Fact is I am a liberal and certainly believe in socialist ideas on how to organize economically.

However, the rest of the country is far from embracing the ideas ANSWER seems to be plugging, and the news media seems focused on ANSWER. It is not about what I think of ANSWER, it is what mom and pop will think.

Now Cindy is a good face for the movement, why not organize around her? And why is it ANSWER is the 'organizer'. Who made them boss of the anti-war movement, or did they set the speaking agenda all on their own.

If ANSWER is really a 'coalition' why did we see so much about edge issues on CSPAN and so little of the anti-war stuff.

As for the Democratic 'leadership', we had the answer on that issue yesterday, AIPAC wrote a letter. Now it shouldn't be a big secret that if the Palestinian/Israel issues becomes front burner stuff, AIPAC will make sure that any elected politician won't be there. So if the issue is anti-war in Iraq, or anywhere for that matter, why do we care one wit about the Israel/Palestinian issues? We are not in Iraq over Israel, Bu$h wants the oil and that is the issue, globalism/corporatism stealing oil.

Fact is, if Israel's Sharon wasn't such a big peckerhead, Israel and their neighbors would have probably settled their issues long ago. And we all know AIPAC isn't helping force Israel to do what they need to do to get along. Here is the deal, there are few people in DC that really want the Israel/Palestinian issues resolved because it gives the globalists plenty of excuses to station military in the middle east to protect the oil, and this is from both sides of the aisle.

I am reminded of when Gandhi won in South Africa, the Prime Minister in South Africa then tried to make Indian immigration to South Africa an issue. And Gandhi declined to take the bait saying more or less that 'it would be wrong to make immigration an issue when they had already won'. It is important to stay on message.

[txaslftist]

98. Dead On; Spot On, and exactly what I was saying yesterday.

ANSWER sucks. They are NOT our allies.

[pazarus]

101. Absolutely Right

We need focus, focus, focus. I was extremely frustrated at ANSWER's line up for the pre-war marches as well. They manage to turn 100,000 people--from all walks of life--marching against the war into a fringe group of confused leftists. I hadn't quite put my finger on what was wrong with the rally the first time, but now it all seems so clear.

Someone else needs to step in and take organizational control of these rallies away from ANSWER, permanently.

[hogwyld]

103. No they don't

They are concerned about worker's rights, and ending wars. If we jetison them in attempts to appease Joe Barcalounger, who do we jetison next time? Our GLBT friends, our reproductive rights? I will not compromise my liberal beliefs to appear more "cuddly" to Joe and Jane Sixpack. Screw 'em all if they don't want to come to our side!

[Cookie wookie]

110. This link was posted on another ANSWER thread

but it either seems that very few if anyone read the article, or if they did, they are not really antiwar/peace activists if they continue to defend IAC (International Answer Coalition, aka ANSWER). And for anyone who thinks Communism is a great idea for the workers of America, I'd ask what history books have you been reading?

http://www.thirdrailmag.com/archives/s02/content/6.htm

"...since its inception in 1992, the IAC’s actions have given rise to serious doubts about its bona fides as an organization truly committed to peace and human rights issues. Behind the blue door entrance to the IAC’s headquarters on 14th Street in Manhattan can be found deeper shades of red. When one looks closely at the IAC, it becomes impossible to ignore the overwhelming presence of members of an avowedly Marxist-Leninist sect called the Workers World Party (WWP), whose cadre staff holds virtually all of the IAC’s top positions. Whether or not the IAC is simply a WWP front group remains difficult to say. Nor is there any evidence that Ramsey Clark himself is a WWP member. What does seem undeniable is that without the presence of scores of WWP cadre working inside the IAC, the organization would for all practical purposes cease to exist. Therefore, even if Clark is not a WWP member, he is following a political course that meets with the complete approval of one of the most pro-Stalinist sects ever to emerge from the American far left."

snip

"From 1991 until today, the IAC/WWP has led repeated delegations to Iraq with Clark at their head to meet with Saddam Hussein and other top Iraqi officials. The close ties between the IAC and Hussein have led other critics of U.S. foreign policy toward Iraq, such as former UN inspector Scott Ritter (who, like the IAC, opposes the continuation of sanctions as being far more harmful to the Iraqi people than to Hussein), to distance himself from any association with the IAC."

snip

"More recently both Clark and the IAC have played a leading role in uncritically defending former Serbian leader Slobodon Milosevic’s brutal attempts to dominate both Bosnia and Kosovo. (Clark even defended Radovan Karadzic, the notorious Bosnian Serb warlord allied with Milosevic, against a civil suit brought against him for the atrocities carried out by his forces.) While accusing NATO of committing war crimes against Serbia, neither the IAC nor the WWP criticized Serbia’s notorious record of terror against civilians, one which includes both the infamous massacre at Srebrenica and the displacement of a million Muslim refuges from Kosovo."

"Nor did the WWP shy away from publicly defending Romania’s Dracula-like dictator Nicholae Ceausescu, whom the WWP worked vigorously (but with little success) to turn from monster to mensch inside the pages of Workers World."

snip

"The WWP was equally consistent when it came to Asia. The sect even applauded the brutal Chinese repression of pro-democracy students and workers at Tiananmen Square. In the April 12th, 1990 WW, Sara Flounders (currently a leader of the “human rights” organization IAC), wrote: “Now the significance of the suppression of the right-wing movement in Tiananmen Square” could be seen from a “clearer perspective”; namely, that China had “smashed the plot of international anti-China forces to subvert the legal government and the socialist system of China.” How did Flounders know this to be true? Because Chinese Premier Li Peng said so in a March 20th speech to the National Peoples Congress in Beijing."

[hogwyld]

114. IAC Rocks!

At least they haven't sold out to the DLC in an effort to fuzzy up it's image. They will never stoop so low as to change their core beliefs in an attempt to woo rightwingers over.

[Cookie wookie]

115. Good grief. n/t

[pauldp]

104. So when the f*ck is MoveOn going to organize an anti war march?

There should be marches every other week for god' sake.
:wtf:

[tocqueville]

105. Tocquedeville is cool

and I agree completely with him

(I'm not him, we just kind of share a nick)

[True American]

106. Check this Out.

Have you read the Sibel Edmond's story. I never know about this story until today. I urge everyone to read this story about the Bush Cover up. The Aurthur is Real Time.

Post a reply to the Real Time post keep this story front and centered.

The Truth will prevail.

True American.

[texastoast]

107. Link? n/t

[GOPFighter]

109. Yeah, I hear what you're sayin'...

...and I will probably be more careful of who organizes marches I go to in the future, and I agree ANSWER is a skank group - not one I would EVER join, but, BUT, I'm so gaddamn sick of the Bushies raping our countries treasury and turning it into "We the Corporations..." I'm ready to fricken' march no matter who organizes it.

Maybe I'm just sick and tired of the liberal organizations who take our money and don't seem to deliver much more than online petitions. I want a march to end all marches. I want a march, a sit in, anything that will shut down Washington and Congress for days. I want grandmas and managers and stock boys and insurance salesman and dock workers and policemen and the poor and lame and ministers and atheists and stay at home parents and teachers to link arms in front of the White House and chant, "George Bush. You're Fired!"

[Guaranteed]

113. That says it all, basically.

The crazies are filling the vacuum left by our Democratic leadership.