It's official, the POLICE STATE *IS* HERE...

[LuCifer]

Sorry if this's been posted already. This kind of shit seriously PISSES ME OFF! I am SO sick of this crap. What in the HELL is wrong with these assholes!?

And it's odd, ya know, oxyRUSHitler Limpnoodle always said it was them big bad evil librulz who was gonna send in the BLACK HELLICOPTERS etc...hmmph! You mean *GASP* it's actually (DRAGNET THEME) THE RETHUGLIKKKONS?!?!?!?!? SAY IT ISN'T SO!!!!!!!
:sarcasm:
And I'm sure y'all in NYC can sleep safer now that people without kids aren't sitting on a bench in some damn park nobody's heard of...unfreakinbelievable.

Woman Ticketed for Sitting on a Playground Bench with No Kids

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=local&id=3480711

(New York-AP, Sept. 27, 2005) - It's an only in New York story. A woman was given a ticket for sitting on a park bench because she doesn't have children.

The Rivington Playground on Manhattan's East Side has a small sign at the entrance that says adults are prohibited unless they are accompanied by a child. Forty-seven-year-old Sandra Catena says she didn't see the sign when she sat down to wait for an arts festival to start. Two New York City police officers asked her if she was with a child. When she said no, they gave her a ticket that could bring a one thousand dollar fine and 90 days in jail.

The city parks department says the rule is designed to keep pedophiles out of city parks, but a parks spokesman told the Daily News that the department hoped police would use some common sense when enforcing the rule.

The spokesman told the paper that ticketing a woman in the park in the middle of the day is not the way you want to enforce the rule.

[bluestateguy]

1. Just another law bashing people who don't do the whole parenting thing

If you look at how our laws and tax system are structured there is a sytematic bias against people who are single and/or childless.

[Der Blaue Engel]

5. No the rule makes sense

It was just enforced stupidly.

If anything in this society penalizes the childless, this ain't it.

[Missy Vixen]

56. Okay, now I'm speaking up

>If anything in this society penalizes the childless, this ain't it.<

If that park was funded AT ALL with federal tax dollars, my husband and I paid for it, and are entitled to use it. If it's a public park, it should be open to all. A poster mentioned further down the thread that the law is to "protect" children from "gawkers". Tell me, what exactly is a "gawker"? Am I a "gawker" because I sit in the local park with my husband during one of our city's summertime music presentations and smile to see someone else's toddler dancing to the music?

It is continuously astonishing to me that those who believe I should foot the bill for their children's education, recreation, etcetera, also believe that the above law is appropriate. There's 13 million childfree adults in the USA as of the last census; perhaps it's time for us to flex some financial and social muscle. If parents are so terrified of another adult's casually observing their children at play while sunning herself on a park bench, perhaps the child should be playing at home in their back yard, under direct parental supervision. Have I mentioned yet that the vast majority of child molestations happen at the hands of a family member or family friend, NOT a complete stranger?

Julie

[Der Blaue Engel]

62. So there it is:

"It is continuously astonishing to me that those who believe I should foot the bill for their children's education, recreation, etcetera, also believe that the above law is appropriate."

This says it all.

Yes, we're all so horrible for expecting you to "foot the bill" for "our" children. What an odd thing for a progressive to say.

This argument isn't about this law at all. It's a "childless" against the "breeders." Nice.

[TahitiNut]

69. Think of the BUSINESS OPPORTUNITIES!

Rent out your rug-rats! Lease your curtain-climbers! Get some more of that money from those criminally-childless folks!

Just IMAGINE the possibilities! Make it illegal to drive within 1000' of any elementary school or day care center without a child in the car. Well, just lasso all your kids and set up concessions alongside the roads and rent 'em out to commuters!

Wow! Capitalism in action, folks! Another market resulting from a law.

:evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin:

[CanuckAmok]

12. Amen to that.

Although I can see both sides of this one.

But still "public park" means public, not parental.

[rawtribe]

2. We are truly a

sick society! Just another example. The list is endless.

:grr:

[Polethebear]

3. Everybody just take a deep breath

it doesn't mean a police state.Just a stupid rule that happened to be enforced a person who was at the wrong place at the wrong time.

[rawtribe]

4. First They Came for the Jews

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

Pastor Martin Niemöller

So who will stand up for those of us who choose not to have children?

[Der Blaue Engel]

7. Oh, good god.

People are totally off-base and out of control with the paranoia over this one. The cops did a dumbass thing.

This not a conspiracy against the childless.

[LittleClarkie]

13. Never mind

bad joke. Going to bed now...

[Der Blaue Engel]

15. Um, ew. n/t

[LittleClarkie]

19. I know. I should go to bed

It's just that who the law was designed to protect against was so incongruous to the "First they came for the "blank" people" poem, as to be really over the top.

Sorry about that. Maybe I'd better delete it. Not one of my better moments.

[Der Blaue Engel]

24. No problem...I'm having to delete huge chunks of things I'm typing

I'm tired too.

Off to bed with me. :)

[rawtribe]

18. I have no interest

in your snot nosed brats. As a tax payer I should be allowed to have my lunch in the park with out having to register as a sex offender. This is a stupid fucking law. We are a stupid fucking people!!!!!

:cry:

[LittleClarkie]

20. I ain't got no brats, snot-nosed or otherwise

Unless you count bratwurst type brats.

But if an area is posted to be for a certain use, and someone didn't read the sign, then that's their own fault.

[rawtribe]

22. Then you better stay

out of the parks you payed for with your tax dollars. :eyes:

Parents get a clue, don't leave your kids unattended in the park. Leave the 99.999% of the law abiding citizens alone.

[MildyRules]

32. You pay for military bases with your tax dollars...

try rolling up to the gate of one and insist on your right to enter.

[Der Blaue Engel]

23. There's no law saying you can't have lunch in the park

Just not sitting inside the children's play area. Why is this so horrible? Why do you need to have access to a playground? Have you ever seen a children's play area? You really don't want to have lunch there anyway, because it's full of snot-nosed brats.

Yeah, yeah, I'm a nasty, horrible person for having a child so you'll be disregarding everything I have to say, cuz I couldn't possibly be a thinking, progressive parent. :eyes:

[rawtribe]

25. I didn't realize

parks had fenced off zones. Who'd a thunk. Reminds me of the free speech zones the * crime family puts us in. What a beautiful world we live in. Enjoy your cage.

[Der Blaue Engel]

58. Oh, boo-hoo

Please save your outrage for *real* fascism. There's plenty to go around.

[lostnfound]

31. That is so rude.

Those 'snot nosed brats' are human beings.

The policeman did a stupid thing. The children have nothing to do with it.

You don't have to insult family members to say that you disagree with the park rules.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Webster Green]

9. Nah,.....It's a police state...

Total fascism 24/7.

Gets worse every day.

[Democrats_win]

6. You're guilty until proven innocent.

[Polethebear]

10. Now I will agree with that.........

espeically in the media.

[Liberal In Texas]

8. "Your papers please...." n/t

[Renew Deal]

11. A judge will toss it.

:dunce:

[Seabiscuit]

29. Agreed.

[sandnsea]

14. How many parks are in NYC??

I kind of thought there was more than one. :shrug:

And maybe keeping adults out of fenced playgrounds isn't all that bad of an idea. No drug dealers, no sex offenders, no child snatchers.

Although I wish the police would have just told her to move along.

[samdogmom]

54. Maybe they ought to ticket parents whose kids are in the park unattended?

That's another way to keep pedophiles at bay. :sarcasm:

Seriously, this law while good-intentioned doesn't sound constitutional. I can't see how you can keep certain classes of people out of public spaces. They're public--that means owned and paid for by the people.

[ladylibertee]

16. SO SAD

[crowshadow]

17. Bush Has New Book For America

That strange flipping flopping sound you hear coming from Pseudo Cons should give you some indication as to what is happening.

[newyawker99]

46. Hi crowshadow!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[crowshadow]

57. Impeach Bush

Thanks,
I try to do a little posting, plan to offer some graphics on the Shrub.

[LuCifer]

21. What I wanna know is...

...ok, this law was SUPPOSEDLY enacted to stop pedophiles. Like the park is the ONLY place childern are?! That's just SO rediculous, I don't even know where to start. What next?! Do we ban onions cuz they might make people fart??? It makes about as much cents.

Lu

[FreedomAngel82]

26. What in the world?

How ridiculous! If there's cops around you don't need that kind of ridiculous rule!

[TankLV]

28. I am so ashamed of some DU'rs here (not you)

With friends like these...

[pinto]

30. Geez, I don't think a ticket makes a police state. It's a stupid reg, tho.

[faithfulcitizen]

55. that's what I was thinkin'- oh, the drama...nt

[Alpharetta]

33. This ordinance is not the problem

I see no problem with giving law enforcement the laws they need to do the job they should be doing: protect us.

The problem? Lack of training for law enforcement. Low standards for accepting trainees. Low pay.

Raising those standards and that pay, we could afford to train our officers to use discretion when enforcing laws. We could train them stupid drug laws are a waste of time unless they need to enforce a stupid law in order to protect innocent people. We could train them that a stupid law about a park bench is not to be used unless you see a known offender in an area where he doesn't belong.

Make law officers truly understanding of the law, justice, and their role in society.

[BlueEyedSon]

34. It's to protect kids against molesters/kidnappers/gawkers

Everyone just take a breath and relax.

Although I think the correct response would be to inform the woman of the law (i.e. a warning) and to ask the woman to get up and leave.....

[-..__...]

35. The city should play both sides of the fence...

and for every park where an adult must be accompanied by a child, designate another park where children aren't allowed.

Then watch the howls and headlines commence.

The woman should play tit-for-tat and sue the city for unlawful discrimination practices.

[jmm]

36. I'm glad to know NY cops have nothing better to do with their time

I always feel safe knowing the government has its priorities straight.

Yeah I understand the law was intended to protect children from molesters but this has to be one of the poorest worded laws ever. Adults who aren't registered sex offenders ought to be able to sit in parks especially when they're waiting for an art festival to start. They should've mandated children in parks should be closely supervised.

[nolabels]

39. And never pull your wallet out in a dark corner especially if your black

The laws the bureaucrats are erecting of today have nothing to do with the power to enforce the law. The cops in todays forces think they are supermen and mostly do as they please. Todays laws are essentially being erected reduce the outlay of the police state from getting sued in civil court.

[Carni]

50. Sounds to me like a good excuse for NYC to rake in cash

I don't agree with this because it's dumb and it is public property, but it sounds like a typical bullshit ordinance to collect money on tickets issued to the unsuspecting.

[Bassic]

37. Asking police to use common sense is a gamble to say the least. nt

[Bridget Burke]

38. How nice that pedophiles never have children of their own....

Otherwise, they could troll the park for fresh meat.

The cop should have simply shown her the sign.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

44. Or neices or nephews or cousins....

[ArkDem]

40. Oh, the HUMANITY!!!

[Norquist Nemesis]

41. It's ticket revenue!

As the feds cut funding, the state and local need to find ways to make up the difference in whatever ways they have at their disposal. It wasn't too long ago that NYC was ticketing people for sitting at the curb on an overturned box, IIRC.

Police seem to be ticketing more and more lately. And usually it's for some obscure infraction the average citizen isn't even aware of.

[Carni]

52. I agree

Kind of along the lines of a speed trap IMO

[jim3775]

42. Perspective: Car pool lane

It is illegal to drive in the car pool lane if you are the only one in your car. It is not a police state activity if you get pulled over for driving solo in the car pool lane.

There is probably a good reason why the park is restricted and enforced, there was probably a kidnapping or murder in the park and the community lobbied to get the park closed off to single adults.

[toymachines]

48. carpool lane is different.

That rewards people for conserving energy. This restricts adults from public land. complete BULLSHIT.

[Gregorian]

43. That sucks. But we asked for it.

Had their been this kind of outrage when smoking a joint became illegal.

It was the fear and the need for safety that opened the door for them.

Helmet laws (even though I wear one)
Seatbelt laws (even though I wear one)
Drug laws (even though I don't do them)

But it made for more police, more laws, more jails, and the death of our freedoms.

But, we asked for it.


Where were the conservatives while all of this was happening? This is something we can all get behind. Why weren't they marching in the streets? Because they are just hot air. Most of us are. It's going to take a crisis. IT always takes a crisis. People aren't vigilant like you and me.

[seabeyond]

45. a lot of liberals like this rule. how about if, we are aware pedophiles

go to park. the cops be aware. the cops chat with the male sittin on the bench. yes most always a male.

how about if we dont have a law so cops arent able to do something stupid like ticket a woman sitting on a bench

how about if parent accept some responsibility and watch and participate with child. i have never had a problem not seeing and being aware and knowing where my children were at a park, a store, a different country.

why.... do we need this law

[toymachines]

49. we dont need it

it is another example of responsibility being shifted in this society. when it is the parents who should be responsible for their children, this woman has to take responsibility for it. They treat all citizens like children, it is disgusting.

[seabeyond]

53. i agree. children or criminals. n/t

[Der Blaue Engel]

61. Wow. Just wow.

This thread has blown my mind.

There's so much real fascism going on in this country and people are flipping their minds out over a rule that was stupidly enforced.

So you think it's a bad idea. Fine. People are entitled to disagree aren't they? Why is it so impossible to have a difference of opinion around here without turning on everyone who disagrees?

Wow. I just don't know what to say.

This place makes me sad. :(

[seabeyond]

63. wow, oh wow back at you

i merely said a lot of liberals like this rule. and then i put forth my thought we the parent should be responsible for children, cops should be reasonable. how in the world is my post unreasonable. whether we agree or not. why should there be a wow, and no one is allowed differing view

wow to you

[Der Blaue Engel]

66. I replied to your post because you're someone I admire and respect

So I was stunned to see that even someone I normally agree with was assuming that parents weren't taking responsibility for their own kids by agreeing with this law.

I think this whole thread is "wow," so I guess I shouldn't have saved my response for you, seabeyond, but I was surprised. :(

[seabeyond]

67. and then i was a bitch, bah hahaahahaha.

i jsut dont think a law is needed and i dont like to see anyone refused the chance of sittin on a bench, and reflect adn enjoy watching a bunch of children play, because we are afraid of pedophiles.

i have confidence, i KNOW that we moms are aware of what is up. i have been to enough parks with my kids and other kids and moms to know, every mom keeps an eye not only on their kids but all kids

i personally feel it feeds the fearful society we have become. i am not this fearful. i am confident in me, you and all the other moms hanging around

and cops could figure it out with out a law too

i do understand why the liberal wants this law. i disagree. i would be the first to sit on that bench and break that law. chattin with moms, chatting with kids

i dont tell my kids to not talk to strangers either. we have always talked to strangers and have gained massive enjoyment from it. my 7 year old has gained the courage to say hello to the old, really old people in the grocery stores. with the biggest of smiles. the old people love it. they shine

i walk life a little differently

and i have never been afraid

twice i have felt the pedophile. you can see it in their eyes. you can feel em. you can smell em. they are more afraid of me, than i will ever be of them. and.....i watch my kids

[Der Blaue Engel]

68. Do you live in a big city or an inner city area?

I'm just curious, because it occurred to me after I took a walk to cool off that maybe that was the disconnect in this thread. There are a number of "kids-only" playgrounds in San Francisco, and it's a very good thing, because junkies, drunks, and yes, even pedophiles, do hang out in these parks. Most of these kids have no where else to play, and I don't think it's a big sacrifice for our society to let them have a few spaces of their own.

I'll agree to disagree, but I hope that others in this thread who are shouting fascism can step back and see it from another perspective.

[seabeyond]

70. you are right in the sf or ny perspective i may feel differently

as a matter of fact, lol lol while you were walking to calm down, i got a flash of inner city, or big city, and i can see what you are saying. but..... the park right down my block has apartment buildings that have a couple registered pedophiles in it, one registered up the street and an unusually large number in this immediate area. i have gone on the local site to see addresses. and i have had to pick up syringes at the park, and broken glass before kids play.

so????

i wouldnt want the area to be just restricted to children. a lot of old people walk the park. i like for them to be a part too.

i guess i would have to sit in the park and allow my own fear barometer to tell me.

i have been to big city parks and wasnt afraid.

[toymachines]

47. no legitimizing this

complete bullshit in my opinion. There shouldnt be such a law in the first place. I tire of this crap, and it just gets worse and worse.

[genieroze]

51. Police use common sense, whatta idea. Some police look for any reason

to give out a ticket. Get a police scanner and you will hear what I mean. I think it has to do with making money IMHO.

[Historic NY]

59. Quota's..........but you didn't hear that from me.

Cops are mandated to produce and their productivity is measured by the amount of tickets or summons they issue. It always been hush hush, but its a fact.

[genieroze]

72. I know & they ALL deny it except for a few cousins who happen to be cops.

[dogday]

60. Public or Private Park

makes all the difference in the world as to what recourse this woman has....

[stevietheman]

64. "The children will be entirely safe once freedom is entirely destroyed."

n/t

[mattclearing]

65. Don't see your point. Parks attract homeless and mentally ill, otherwise.

This seems totally reasonable to me, although this woman may not have been the candidate the law was intended to discourage.

In DC, we had a 7 year old girl put in handcuffs for eating a french fry on Metro rail.

I actually approve of the no food rule, if the handcuffs are a bit much...the Metro's one of the cleanest mass transit systems in the world for a reason.

[Romulus]

71. meanwhile, gun battles rage in the nearby neighborhood

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/350577p-298924c.html

East Side rocked by gunfight

Thugs, cops battle after holdup at posh watch shop

(Sept. 28 edition)

A pair of gun-toting thugs sparked a wild gunfight with cops on the East Side yesterday afternoon after the duo held up a pricey watch shop, police said.
Jamming a gun to the head of the store owner, the gunmen fired a burst of bullets as they fled Fossner Timepieces Clock Shop, witnesses said.

"Get down! Get down!" cops yelled to pedestrians along E.56th St. near Second Ave.

The thugs freed the store owner just before jumping into a pickup truck, and cops fired a single shot at them before they sped off, authorities said. At least one of the thugs' bullets hit a police car.

*more*

(I know, the "East Side" could arguably be a long stretch of land, but we don't know where the playground is located)

[The Jacobin]

73. In MY police state you would be jailed just for using [blink]

I haven't seen that tag used since about 1995. :eyes:

Don't do it again. Ever. No matter how pissed you get.