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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 11:08 PM
Original message
How can Bush possibly have a 40 percent approval rating, when...
Edited on Wed Sep-28-05 11:10 PM by TwoSparkles
...only half of United States citizens bothered to vote AT ALL in the 04 election-and only half of these voters cast their ballots for Bush?

I'm using rounded numbers here--but if approximately half of the U.S. population voted in the 04 election, and half of all voters didn't vote for Bush--doesn't that mean that only 25 percent of the total U.S. population supported Bush?

How can it be that when a random sample is taken for a national 'Bush approval/disapproval" poll--that he still garners the approval of 40 percent of America?

We've heard repeatedly that Bush is losing support--and that many who voted for him, don't support him now. He's lost at least some of that 25 percent support that he had in Nov 04--so how can he have a 40 percent approval rating?

Maybe someone with a statistics background can let me know if my thinking is flawed.

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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
1. I believe they only poll voters, for the most part.
And a few of them actually ADMIT to polling more Rethugs
than Democrats.

His actual rating among ALL US CITIZENS is probably around 15-20 percent.
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Melodybe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. POLLS ARE FAKE!
We should totally hook up with the independants and former repubs to start new polling companies.
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 04:59 AM
Response to Reply #11
17. Before that, "we" should do some PREP-work!
Get to know a few folks who have degrees in "statistics";
and then read a few entry-level books on the subject.

The illusions that Sigfreid and Roy do with white tigers
are NOTHING compared to what a political hack
can do with NUMBERS!

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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 11:12 PM
Response to Original message
2. Good Point! n/t
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amerikat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 11:12 PM
Response to Original message
3. Even people that didn't vote at all get to have an opinion.
I think it's just that simple.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 01:37 AM
Response to Reply #3
16. Exactly
My parents always told me when I was younger "if you don't vote you can't complain."
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incapsulated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
4. It depends on the poll
If it's of registered voters, it makes a bit more sense. He has a floor of about 30% with the truly crazy republicans.

Most of the support he's lost has been from those that voted for him, independents and "moderate republicans". Basically, the democrats can't hate him more if they tried.

I think his real numbers are about 37% among registered voters, though.

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Catch22Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
5. You're assuming the half that didn't vote...
disapprove of *? At least that's what I think I'm reading. The only way those numbers work is if ALL of the people who didn't vote in the last election, universally disapprove of the pResident.
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Autonomy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
6. Even if the poll was not limited to registered voters
you're equated supporting and voting. You can "support" and not vote at all.
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. You're right...I guess I am equating supporting and voting...
Edited on Wed Sep-28-05 11:24 PM by TwoSparkles
...because I feel that non-voters wouldn't be supportive of Bush. I'm assuming that the majority of non-voters (the 50 percent who stayed home on 04 election night) are indifferent toward Bush or toward politics in general.

I'm assuming that the majority of those who didn't make it to the polls--stayed home because neither candidate sparked enough motivation in them--to get them to the polls.

I'm failing to understand how so many apathetic, politically disinterested people could say that they support Bush and approve of how he's doing his job.

His support has significantly eroded since the 04 election, too...
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nankerphelge Donating Member (995 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
7. Sorry to say...
but if you talk to 10 people at random, chances are that 4 of them will be totally ignorant.
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. And if you happen to be shopping at Walmart...
I think that number soars up to 9 out of 10...isn't that right?
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Child_Of_Isis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
10. I have as much faith in these so called "polls"
as I do in diebold. :smoke:
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nankerphelge Donating Member (995 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
12. The Onion is reporting...
"Bush's Approval Rating Of Other Americans Also At All-Time Low."

Shortly after President Bush's job-approval rating dipped to 40 percent, the lowest of his presidency, a poll indicated that Bush's approval rating for American citizens is also at an all-time low. "At 30 percent, President Bush's satisfaction with 'likely voters' is the lowest it's ever been," said Rachel Markham of TNS Intersearch. While Bush finds that 40 percent of Americans are "on the right track," he said he believes only 30 percent will do a good job supporting him in the event of another disaster or terrorist attack.


http://www.theonion.com/content/node/40988
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Lexingtonian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
13. it turns out

that people who don't vote have, as a group, political opinions that are statistically identical to those who do. Things can be somewhat different during election campaigns, which is why pollsters go over to 'likely voter' polling from 'registered voter' polling, but outside of campaign season they're statistically insignificant.

People are simply like the people they are around, whether they vote or not.

When you go over to polling 'adults', i.e. the unregistered as well as the registered, there can be differences on the order of 3%. What happens is that you weight in more people in their early twenties (who tend to be fairly clueless about politics and the Parties, and as a group statistically reflect quite exactly their parents' opinions, so they only add noise into the polling) and people disproportionately disenfranchised due to felony convictions, i.e. working class or working poor black men in the South who tend to avoid voluntary involvement with all things government.

As for why Bush still has 40% support.... Well, somewhere between 29% and 32% of the country is what we shorthand as Christian Right. They're far more whites and rural than black or Latino or residents of cities. They are more elderly than young. But they cut across all kinds of demographics. They tend to have occultic (magical) beliefs and either very little education or rather deficient education- 'Bible' or 'Christian' colleges, if that, or the non- or anti-intellectual professions, i.e. 'business'. As they see it, Democrats have the unforgiveable flaw of being intellectualish, of being smarter and more adaptive and more able to forgive and forget and genuine, of being less locked into the miseres of the small town and agrarian or industrial life than they are, of not needing to maintain a system of graft and cronyism and miniondom and threats and partnership in crime to keep jobs and families and real estate together. Democrats don't understand that Tradition aka Christianity is all that keeps them from sinking, that bashing other people is important in the way it distracts from the misery beyond negotiation that fills their lives. They fear Modernity for the way it exposes them- as not knowing much, as not having learned or understood much, for having bought into sophistry that was pure crap, for revealing them as dupes and willing participants in wrongful stuff, for showing how arrogant and hollow and fraudulent they were and are. (Of course, they project these qualities on Liberals.) Modernity removes the racial caste and gender system that was the basis for their relative prosperity and why they haven't been called to account. Modernity removes the hard theism from legitimacy as a force for organizing the country to how they like it.

The other 8-11% are various kinds of other cases. There are the people who want the United States to remain a version of Victorian England forever. There are those whose patriotism is all about defending their pocketbook and raiding others'. There are the suckers for the minor occultisms- Objectivism, 'supply side economics', 'small government', Second Amendment misreadings, 'pro-Israel', demonization of minor criminality, misapplied blame for various traumas, and so on.

Don't worry, the decline rate for their politics and leaders is a remarkable 1% of the electorate per month. A little over a million voters per month are leaving this Republicanism behind and won't go back to it. Sadly we can't increase the rate at which they learn, so that the rate is higher, but living with Bush & Co running under 30% with the electorate a year from now is not going to be real rough on you or me. After the November '06 elections it's going to be rather more like torturing small furry animals (the leaders) or frying ants with a magnifying glass (their followers).
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Autonomy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 01:23 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Great analysis and summary!
Edited on Thu Sep-29-05 01:46 AM by Autonomy
I've been saying that conservatives hate post-modern relativism more than anything for a while now, and basing it more on personality theory than sociology. But personality doesn't explain the red state phenomenon. Your explanation is actually more changeable over time, as local cultures change.

I believe that this version of Movement Conservatism is OVER. It'll be back, in another form, in 10-12 years.
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LaPera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 01:36 AM
Response to Original message
15. He doesn't...So, thank you Rove & the whore rebublican owned media.
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