Rush Limbaugh is Realllllly good at what he does.

[Armstead]

I mean it. I don't like him, but one has to acknowledge his brilliance at taking events and spinning a yarn that bolsters his point of view and shaping the perceptions of his listeners.

I was listening to him on the car radio a few minutes ago, and he is spinning the Delay thing like a master. Paraphrased, he said:

"The Democrats announced two years ago that they were going to study how the GOP took control and imitate it. That's all this is, the Democrats trying to play political hardball. Earle is a corrupt prosecutor. But it's not going to work, because there is nothing to base it on. The liberals can't win elections on ideas, so they use things like indictments and packing the courts to promote their unpopular agenda, aided by the liberal media. But they won't succeed because the people will see through this, and the liberals will only end up looking more foolish."

Now overlooking how many lies, half-truths, wishful thinking and projection is in his analsis, you'ver got to admit that it sounds very convincing. Masterfully using Delay to discount everything else that's happening.

Put yourself in the shoes of someone who is already eitehr predisposed to that way of looking at things, or someone who is basically apolitical and just listens to Rush because he's "entertaining." It all sounds so logical.

I don't advocate lying, but we ought to acknowledge that Rush is one of the reasons people have bought into that package. We have to study and figure out how our side can be as effective and relentless in terms of building short punchy narratives.

[BrklynLiberal]

1. Evil is excellent at what it does.

[tsuki]

33. Beat me to it. eom

[bloom]

2. The obvious way to refute this nonsense is that it was citizens

who made the recommendation to indict. Are they all corrupt too?

That's what I would say.

[defiant1]

7. Of course....

They were all tree-hugging, ACLU donating, commies.

:sarcasm:

[VWolf]

34. Yeah, damn those liberal Texans

:sarcasm:

[cantstandbush]

49. You'll never get to say that on his show.

Just consider the source and the audience.

[Neocondriac]

3. Masterful????...how?????

More Like Mc Carthy or Hitler.?

[Armstead]

19. Masterful is a morally neutral term

Ability is ability, regardless of what it is used for.

[defiant1]

4. Good gawd, how delusional can one guy be???

"The liberals can't win elections on ideas, so they use things like indictments and packing the courts to promote their unpopular agenda, aided by the liberal media."

Hmmm, something about the year 2000, and the SCOTUS, comes to mind but I just can't put my finger on it.

:sarcasm:

[gratuitous]

13. Yep, right up until the moment your brain clicks into gear

Liberals can't win elections? Who won the popular vote in 2000? It wasn't "Landslide" George. Packing the courts? Who's had the power to appoint judges for the last five years?

Limbaugh sings the same tired tunes of 30 years ago, and like the crowd at a Beach Boys concert, his audience laps it up oblivious to anything else that's happened since then.

[MnFats]

5. That's how he got where he is....Spawn of satan...n/t

[NorCalDem]

6. I'd rather be truthful and convince people

with my ideas than my distortions. If that's how the RW has to do it, fine, I can live with that, but I'm not becoming a member of their pundit class. I tell it like it is! Fuck Limbaugh, he's a douche!

[Armstead]

12. He's telling it like he thinks it is -- and what he wants to believe

I don't believe Rush thinks he is lying. Instead, he is telling his version of the truth, with enough bullshit and salesmanship to convince others.

That's our problem. We don't realize the importance of salesmanship with our ideas. Not lying -- just being convincing and to the point about the truth.

[ClassWarrior]

8. You make an excellent point. HeadRush is at the root of much evil, and...

...he is extremely skilled, as you point out. We also need to study how to trip up this gasbag and send him into retirement.

As for studying snappy narratives, I'd recommend "Don't Think of an Elephant" by George Lakoff. Inexpensive, an easy read, and it will literally change your life.

NGU.

[EstimatedProphet]

9. Rush Limbaugh causes retardation

Listening to him daily literally affects people's ability to think critically. This is documented in Brock's "The Right Wing Noise Machine".
In this respect perhaps he should have his show taken off the air as a public safety issue.

[SeekerofTruth]

36. Um, Since when is it okay to

insult the mentally handicapped by saying 'retarded'? My wife works with the mentally handicapped.

Or maybe you admire him and his tactics because didn't you just use the same tactic?

Please be more considerate of others and of those less fortunate than us, otherwise you could turn into a republican. ;)

[EstimatedProphet]

47. Well, while I understand sensitivity to the mentally handicapped

"Retardation" is still a condition. It isn't meant to be mocking in this case-it's meant to be descriptive. There are studies showing that a diet of right-wing radio does affect people's ability to be aware of factual information (such as accurate knowledge of current events) and also reasoning ability.
So, my apologies if you believe retardation isn't the right descriptor. It seemed to apply given these findings. I am open to suggestions for another word if you think there is one more appropriate.
I don't believe that makes me a fan of Limbaugh either.

[SeekerofTruth]

54. Your response is quite sincere

and well thought out. The word 'retard' now has so many negative connotations to it, people don't use it anymore. It's kind of like 'liberal'. I'm proud to be a liberal in the true definition, but not a liberal in Rush's definition.

But something I didn't say, but was considering. I think you insulted the mentally handicapped because (as my wife says) the mentally handicapped at least have a reason for acting the way they do.

:headbang:

[EstimatedProphet]

59. That is quite true, and for that I apologize

It was unintentional.

[Norquist Nemesis]

10. "Earle is a corrupt prosecutor"; Indict Limbaugh

I'd like to see a charge shoved into Limbaugh's big fat mouth to put a gag on him. He's making unsubstantiated and slanderous charges in an effort to influence a jury pool and obstruct justice.

[Armstead]

17. Ah, but he has the "evidence"

An old article by some other right-wing reporter from a couple of years ago.

That way he coversd his butt, regardless of whether or not the original story was accurate.

These guys build a hall of mirrors. That's part of the brilliance of them, as awful as it is.

[whatever4]

11. That's what I really hate about him

Aside from his woman-bashing agenda. I agree with you completely, he's bright enough to know better, and CERTAINLY bright enough to understand how our nation is being financially (only thing he cares about) ruined.

Just no excuse. This admin isn't conservative, and he's nothing but a whore to have gone along with their agenda. No, actually, that gives whores a bad name. He's just a sellout, and smart enough to be well aware of it, having sold out all his principles.

Take pill Rush. Take another. Take a handful. Take a hit for the team.

National traitor, that's what Rush is, and worse than most because he knows it. He isn't one of the idiots. He's just a liar and a cheat.

You and your radio show are living on borrowed time Rush. When this all falls out, you'll be near the top of the "hated Americans who lied to us" list. You'll be another scapegoat, and OH how well you've placed yourself there.

[kentuck]

14. A good start....

is to pronounce that Rush Limbaugh is a corrupt but masterful propagandist. Keep saying it until everyone has heard it.

[FM Arouet666]

15. GOP control of the media will be the death of us...

Your right, he is very effective, the Goebbels of right wing radio. If you don't believe it, listen to his show in the morning, take a lot of anti-nausea medication, and ask a few of your right wing acquaintances about the topics of discussion.

You will undoubtedly hear Rush's talking points. If Rush told them to drink the Kool Aid, most of his adherents would without hesitation.

[thefloyd]

16. I agree

Rush has practiced for 18 years and practice makes perfect.
I hope Rush continues to talk about 'democrats not winning elections" Cons only care about winning...period. GOP has outstanding marketing campaign but an Edsel transmission. GOP cannot govern effectively at all, Cons talk a great game of morality but we all know actions speak louder than words. People will catch on. No doubt in my mind.

[bunny planet]

18. Make no mistake, Limpballs is spinning for his very life, that gives him

inspiration. Heard yesterday that they'll be interviewing his doctors in his drug shopping case. Rush knows that if the BFEE falls, he falls with them. If they are all busy trying to defend against their own indictments they won't have the time or the inclination to help him out when his time in court comes up.

[political_invader]

20. Earle is a corrupt prosecutor?

Hasn't he been very succesful prosacuting DEMS? something like 13.

I thought he was one of them ( pukies )?

Rush makes me puke. :puke:

[FormerDittoHead]

21. I only wish more people understood what you can see...

The effectiveness of Rush Limbaugh is not to say lies, but to create this tapestry of reality that allows them to extract, cull, and frame whatever reality they want.

They talk about rewarding hard work.

They talk about things being right and wrong.

They talk about how 'rugged indivualism' is what made American great and that 'collectivism' is the evil in the world. Individuals, even those who are uneducated and un/misinformed, are better choosers about "their money" can do than some power hungry "limousine liberal".

Then they pick, choose and massage the data that's out there and paint this reality which 'proves' their perspective.

The point is that you can get into arguing the little facts, but as you do, you lose the argument, because those who have come to accept the 'tapestry' will only discard the individual bits only to embrace other 'facts' as they are provided.

That's why Rush fans have to regularly listen - they've been taught that the media is biased, so that basic facts can be dismissed in between 'programs'.

Yes, as another one stated - it's the frame, it's this vision of reality which has to be defeated.

[Armstead]

26. He blends truth and untruths in an effective way

What he does really well is to say enough which is widely accepted as the truth, and then take it into a different direction.

I've noticed over the years, that I actually agree with about 60 percent of what he says. Most people do.

Then he takes the listener into territory that is wrong, but sounds convincing, and then circles back to tie it to the generally acepted truth.

Unless one is payiong close attention and knows better, it all sounds very convincing.

[calmblueocean]

28. Great word.

"Tapestry".

We need our own tapestry. I think the "culture of corruption" is a good beginning. How Republicans are master deceivers, how their leaders always lie, how they say "personal responsibility" to your face and then rip you off when your back is turned.

Republican should be a synonym for "untrustworthy".

Anyone else want to add to the tapestry? :)

[William769]

22. Really good at being a drug addict.

[Mutley]

23. Don't give him an inflated ego. He reads here, you know.

But really, I see what you're saying and you're right.

[orwell]

24. A Misconception

Rush is telling his audience what they already believe so the bar is very low. In fact there is no bar. Mass psychology seeks feedback for whatever its current belief structure - from the dominant social institutions, media, role models etc. Mass psychology is not clever, heroic, logical, or risk tolerant. It is glacial in its development, reticent to process new information that is contradictory to the accepted orthodoxy.

What Rush is good at is marketing to his very specific subset of listeners. He tells them its okay to be racist, sexist, compliant to authority. He doesn't need to be truthful, just consistent, as do all propagandists. Repetition is critical.

He is a very effective propagandist, I will give you that. But he is very poor at conversion. Most who did not already share his subset of beliefs would turn him off in a country minute.

[Armstead]

30. No it's those in the middle who buy it that matter

I believe there is a large number of people who could go either way, such as people who may be personally conservative, but could be liberal or progressive about economic issues.

That used to be a large part of the Democratic base. Working class peopel who were social traditionalists, but supported liberal and progressive economic policies. Think of your classic old-time union guys.

Rush didn't do it alone, but he is part of the machine that effectively shifted the default position for many working class people and middle class people from traditional liberal Democrat to right wing conservatiive Republican.

[daa]

25. I think he used to be funny

he gored anybodies OX with humor. He was pretty funny. After he stayed in the Lincoln bedroom with Bush 41 he took sides and quit being funny. I haven't listened for years becuase he just became a partisan and quit being entertaining. I suppose he has some market for that christofascist BS but I am sure his marekt share is no where near the 22 million it used to be. Last I saw it was like 15 million.

[Felix Mala]

27. He has a lot of simple, easy answers.

You don't have to figure out a way to cut energy usage -- USE ALL THE ENERGY YOU WANT...

You don't have to come up with an intelligent foreign policy that promotes all human beings -- JUST SHOOT 'EM ALL, LET GOD SORT 'EM OUT.


Rash sounds so damned reasonable because he's got the easy sell. He doesn't ask his listeners to sacrifice anything but a few hours of their day listening to his hypnotic hooey.

I'm still amazed that's he's been able to convince millions of people that the Civil Rights era arose because of conservative Republicans defeating the hatefilled Democratic liberals who promoted Jim Crow.

[thefloyd]

29. Another point

All Con entertainers use their voice VERY effectively. Lots of "passion", "Sense of Urgency", "Crisis". Hannity, Gibson, Limbaugh. All of them create a "crisis"

[JohnnyRingo]

31. Him and Hannity think they're legal geniuses.

I wish DeLay and Frist would retain them and take them with them to court as their lawyers.

BTW, he's using a "vast left wing conspiracy theory" to illustrate how the Democrats are using Republican tactics against them.

How ironic.

[Montauk6]

32. I remember some of his classic "gems"

Not EXACT quotes:

During, I think, Iran/Contra: "See, Democrats can only win by scandal. It goes back to Nixon and Watergate."

After the Clinton victory: "The ONLY reason why Clinton won is because so many people were unhappy with Bush. I defy you to name one thing in Clinton's agenda that worthy of a vote, you can't."

[Catherine Vincent]

35. The only thing he's masterful at is spinning.

And there are masters on both sides.

[WI_DEM]

37. he's good at lying, snorting and eating--in that order

[Vinnie From Indy]

38. It's the drugs talking

Rush Limbaugh's talent isn't on "loan from God", it's on loan from Eli Lilly.

Scapegoating, lying and being a criminal are hardly the attributes of a genius. How f*cking hard is it to lie through your teeth? People have been doing it since time began. You write, "It all sounds so logical". WTF? It sounds logical only to those people who have chosen to disconnect themselves from reality. These people have been around since time began as well.

I advocate asking every "Oxy" Rush fan you meet if they routinely take advice from a self admitted heroin addict? (Soon to be convicted felon & drug addict).

[Kralizec]

39. Sorry, but NO. Rush does what many people can do. The reason it sounds

"good" is because others would not reduce themselves to the moral level of lying every single day to his listeners. It's not that he's good, it's that he is one of the few that has completely sold his soul for power.

[Armstead]

41. Sorry but yes...Compare him to B List winger hosts

What Rush does is like playing music. Any idiot can learn a few chords and bang them out. But it is difficult to make them into music.

I don't believe in underestimating the ability and strengths of opponents. Misunderestimating is the path to getting trounced.

[Kralizec]

43. I see your point, but I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I am

aware of the tremendous influence of Rush, and sure as hell wouldn't underestimate him (his obvious role in how things got to where they are today). But I think that many others are capable of doing what he does but don't. I find no reason to shine any sort of a good light on someone like him.

Peace.

[Individualist]

56. I'm with you, Kralizec

"...many others are capable of doing what he does but don't." It's common knowledge that if a lie is repeated often enough, the ignorant will believe it. That's what Oxyrush does, and it certainly isn't an indication of either talent or ability on his part. I've also seen a very few people say "Rove is brilliant". Both Rove and Oxyrush are simply using the very tactics used by Nazi propogandists. The tactics are the same, only the wording has changed, and genius isn't required to spew propoganda.

[SeekerofTruth]

40. I agree, I wish Air America had some of his abilities

he weaves a tapestry of truth mixed in with lies and deceit. But, what I think he does most is he hits people emotionally. He talks about how Democrats want to take away his listeners rights as individuals and how we want to take away personal responsibility. Those 2 alone, hit at a personal and emotional level.

We need to counteract by talking about how we want to teach personal responsibility and have a safety net. We need to hit these people on their religious side of comforting the less fortunate.

Can you imagine if we start quoting the Bible about how moral it is to help the less fortunate? Oh, what chaos we could weave.

[Kralizec]

52. You wish AirAmerica could manipulate and demolish the truth like Rush

does? You want AirAmerica hosts to lie and mislead you? I don't see the benifit in that.

[SeekerofTruth]

55. No, what I was saying is he hits his listeners at an emotional

or personal level. When you listen to Air America, they make fun of conservatives and laugh at them. However, they don't weave into it issues that hit people at the personal level or maybe a better way to describe it is, at our personal pride.

[Kralizec]

58. Have you listened to Mike Malloy in the evenings? n/t

[txaslftist]

42. Naw. Not masterful.

This doesn't take an Einstein to figure out; shit, I could write Rush's material myself. He's got an audience that is half brainwashed, half unwashed and all too lazy to look up any of this shit on their own.

He's just playing to his base.

[Armstead]

45. I wish

But if it were that easy, we'd have had at least one liberal equivalent by now.

[txaslftist]

46. You don't think Jon Stewart is the equal of Rush Limbaugh?

[Armstead]

48. Not really -- Apples and oranges

John Stewart is great, and probably has pushed some people in the right direction.

But he isn't really political. He's a satirist, and is willing to be an equal opportunity basher. That's as different role, as he is not as consistent as an advocate.

Limbaugh claims to be an entertainer, but is more an advocate, whose job is selling an ideological position in an entertaining way.

Plus their media are different. A half-hour comedy show in a cable net is different than a three-hour radio show that is often the only current affairs show that's available in many markets at that time of day.

[txaslftist]

51. I think Stewart motivates as many folks on the left as Rush ...

... motivates dildoheads. He at the very least assures us that our position is not 'extreme', which is also limpball's principle function.

[Armstead]

62. Well I see it as ripples from a pebble compared to a boulder

Not only their physical similarities of Rush to a boulder.

But the Daily Show tends to get a pre-selected audience of people left of center who want to laugh at the news for a few minutes.

It may make the otehr side look ridiculous, but it doesn't really offer any analysis or -- more important -- solutions. It doesn;t go any farther than cynicinism.

I realize Rush's "solutions" are bogus, but he does offer more than just ridiculing. He offers an alternative vision to the fed-up pissed off white guys (and women) who listen to him.

That analysis is crucial, becaue it is not only blaming "liberals" and Democrats for all the problems of the world. It is also offering something to root for and support -- the upper classes whol will allow you to join their ranks if you just buy into the Kool Aid.

That's what we are lacking. I believe we have the truth on our side, but we have lacked a means or will to offer positive solutions offered in a way that average folks can relate to.

[Ganja Ninja]

44. I agree.

He's better than Franken or Springer that's for sure. He's a bastard and a liar and I hate the sound of his voice but he has his shtick down. Ed Schultz is the closest thing we have to Rush. Rush's thing is he incites anger in his listeners toward whoever or whatever he going off on. Listening to Franken or Springer is the radio equivalent of watching grass grow. Aside from an occasional laugh on the Franken show it's pretty much a snore fest.

[Arkana]

50. Nope. Rush isn't skilled. He's just evil.

And when you're evil, you genuinely believe the hate that you spew--making you that much more eloquent in your expression of it.

[Cha]

53. If it's a goal to be AMerica's

Toyko Rose than limpbaughs has done it. Such an honor.

[deutsey]

57. Right up there with Goebbles

:eyes:

[Armstead]

60. Well, he was very good at what he did too

Results matter.

I'm not condoning it. But it's a mistake to dismiss the things we have to overcome.

[deutsey]

61. I was giving the Devil his due