**Abu Ghraib images to be released - BBC**

[rndmprsn]

when it rains it pours...

--

Abu Ghraib images to be released - BBC

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4295324.stm

A judge in New York has ruled that pictures of Iraqi inmates abused by US troops should be released.

The judge made the order after a request by the American Civil Liberties Union for access to 87 unseen images.

District Judge Alvin Hellerstein rejected government arguments that this could fuel anti-US feelings.

Pictures of Iraqi inmates being abused at Abu Ghraib jail in Baghdad last year have caused an outcry around the world. Several US soldiers have been jailed.

The ruling represents a huge potential embarrassment for the US administration, says the BBC's Jeremy Cooke in New York.

[mike_c]

1. the DoD will fight this all the way to the SCOTUS....

Roberts will really enjoy burying the evidence of U.S. criminal behavior in Iraq, I'll bet.

[Pacifist Patriot]

77. Sucker bet

[clintoncomeback]

2. Ugh. Who wants to see that crap anyway? It's morbid and

disgusting. Let the prosecutors and jury and judge see those sick images. Not the world and the American public.

[DistressedAmerican]

5. Bullshit. Transparency Is The Only Way To Make Them Stop The ONGOING

abuse.

The truth no matter how ugly must be in the hands of the public. An informed electorate is crucial for a functioning democracy.

I guess you have no problem with an uninformed public picking your leaders.

I have to wonder about this post. Smells fishy at best...

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Judi Lynn]

47. Thanks for refreshing our memories. It's true, they were no more serious

than "frat pranks," according to Rush Limbaugh.

If these photos are ALSO no more serious than "frat pranks," Rush and other right-wing scum shouldn't have much to worry about.



Don't worry, Rush.

[me b zola]

17. No, people do not know what went/goes on in those prisons

Most people do not know that there are videos of children being raped. Most people do not know that there is video evidence of murder.

Even if they had heard about what goes on there, nothing will change the hearts of the American public faster than *seeing* it with their own eyes. That is why the pentagon has complete media control in Iraq. They tell us (kind of) what is going on, but if we could *see* it, it would be more than 500,000 that would march on DC to stop the war.

[Melodybe]

22. What about the child rape? I know plenty that don't believe it happened

not until they see proof.

[YOY]

78. I'm with you on that

As gross as it sounds I want to see so I can believe.

[cry baby]

34. No, people don't know anything about this thanks to the corporate

media. No one will believe torture, rapes, and murders are going on unless they see it in these photos. As I understand it, these photos are way worse than the first pics to come out.

My mind is not sick, our leaders that condoned and ordered torture are the sick ones, as well as the people that voted for these murderers. This torture needs to come out so it can stop.

[flyarm]

51. NO MOST AMERICANS DO NOT KNOW THAT

RAPE OF INNOCENT WOMEN AND CHILDREN HAS TAKEN PLACE by our military and sanctioned by this administration and continues to this day..this must be put into the AMERICAN PEOPLES FACES..the rest of the world knows much more about this than Americans do..and THAT is what is disgusting ..that this has been and is being done in our name with so few knowing about it!!

I want to see them and i want them now!! and i want to shove them up every conservtives nose!! yes that so called "moral majority" of hypocrites asses!
i want to pin those pictures on the so called chrisitan coalition ..i want them shoved down the throat of every so called religious righteous ass who voted for this bullshit and yet stay as ingorant as possible and call themselves moral!

i want those who should be held accountable ..the so called moral of this nation, held 100% accountable and responsible for this bullshit!!

yes i want these pictures on the huge screens in times square and in every church in this nation!!
until this is exposed to the highest degree this will go on and on and on..as it is right to this day!!

this is *'es mai lai..and he and everyone responsible should and must be held accountable!! and impeached over these crimes and tried for international war crimes!

fly

[troubleinwinter]

82. Please clarify exactly the meaning of:

"Your post smells fishy to me. So there!"

The person you addressed in that post is a highly respected member here, with over 10,000 posts and a fine reputation and a record of 'walking the walk' at demonstrations and generously sharing his talents with others here to advance our goals.

Why would you make such a rude comment about the motivation of a committed member of DU, considering (your words): "3 whole days I've been here"?

Your very FIRST post in this thread was claiming a post "smelled fishy", and in short order you stated, "I hate how everyone on this board is so quick to start fights and arguments". Your fist post in this thread did exactly that.

An apology seems in order.

[Warren DeMontague]

97. Bullshit.

The stuff we know about is the tip of the iceberg, and right-wing assholes, when confronted with accusations like Sy Hersh's as to what went down there, inevitably respond "bullshit. show me proof"

Okay, here comes proof.

[Raksha]

94. Smells like week-old fish.

In fact, it smells like...

[Tanuki]

6. It's not your call, buddy

Nobody is forcing you to look if you don't want to, but you (or Bush) have no right to censor the public's right to know. It's guaranteed by the first amendment. Enjoy your stay here, btw, however long or short it may be.

[Lochloosa]

Excuse Me!

Everyone should see these pics. Everyone needs to see what our country has become. Everyone needs to squirm in their seat knowing that the person they put in charge of this country allowed this to happen. Everyone that voted for this MF needs to watch and listen to the rape videos. Everyone that voted for him then needs to get on their knees and ask forgiveness.

"Whenever the people are well-informed, they can be trusted with their own government. Whenever things get so far wrong as to attract their notice, they may be relied on to set them to rights." --Thomas Jefferson to Richard Price, 1789. ME 7:253

[nyhuskyfan]

7. It's been done in our name...

I'm prepared to be ashamed, horrified, and embarrased.

But all those things are better than being ignorant.

[DistressedAmerican]

8. This Comment From Your Profile Looks A Bit Freaking Odd As Well

"I am a democrat, but try hard not to be an outspoken "nut" about it. People around here hate liberals, and I don't want to be branded as such, and risk my personal safety and carreer goals."

I guess you are saying that most of us are nuts? Do you think the folks you work with and live near will know that you are posting here? Do your neighbors read your posts?

Sounds like a way of saying, " I will post freeperish things here. But, do not call me on it. I just do not want to look like you kooks to my buddies.

I call bullshit.

[clintoncomeback]

12. Maybe you didn't see the quotation marks there.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with someone's views not matching your own 100%. So, I am more moderate than you. Big deal. Not even an issue. I hate how everyone on this board is so quick to start fights and arguments, I was warned about that before I even joined.

[DistressedAmerican]

13. Yeah Right! Sure You Are Not Looking For www.zellmiller.com?

You are the one that implied that we were "nuts" and that you do not want to be associated with that. You are the one with the insulting profile. Get a grip!

[clintoncomeback]

20. Well, I didn't realize it was insulting. I'll change it. You should try

living in "Farm country" USA for awhile though! It can be scary, I mean people here still have Bush stickers plastered all over thier cars for pete's sake!

[DistressedAmerican]

28. How Could You Ever Expect That Calling Us Nuts Would Be Insulting

and suspicious?

Again, I'll ask you, do you have neighbors reading your posts? How the hell are any of them gonna know.

My whole family lives in Iowa "farm country". I am quite familiar thank you. I have a number of liberal relatives there. Iowa is a swing state you know. Not like you are posting from the bowels of backwater Mississippi (where BTW your posts would also NOT be public knowledge).

If you are so worried about being associated with us nuts, why did you come here at all?

[peacebaby3]

67. DA, I think this guy is an active duty soldier and would have to

worry more than your average citizen about being careful with what they say anywhere. My husband won't even post here. Of course, he says that I have a strong enough opinion for both of us. Soldiers don't have the same first ammendment rights that you and I have. As the wife of a soldier, I've gotten some minor threats myself.

I was posting on a different board back when my husband was still serving in Iraq and a group of people on that board tracked down my personal information and tried to report my husband for violation of UCMJ. Of course it was total bullshit because I was posting but they did their best to try and hurt my husband.

Although, I do think the "nut" label was a little much but I don't think it was meant to be as hurtful as it sounded.

I don't usually defend anyone and I certainly can't know anything definitively, but if this guy is a disruptor, it will come out soon enough.

Glad to see you back here posting on a regular basis now. :7

[txaslftist]

104. And by the way, DA. You ARE nuts. Everyone knows it.

Why don't you just admit it already.
:P

[NYC]

84. That's why they should see the pictures.

The people with Bush stickers on their cars need to decide if they really, truly want to support torture. This is what they voted for. Is this what they want?

[Cats Against Frist]

113. I live in "farm country," and all I can see for miles are Democrats

With a sub-40-percent approval rating, it's no surprise that, in Iowa, a state that the Junta stole by only 10,000 votes, that most of the pukes would be abandoning ship. Those who are smart enough to realize that they're being played for idiots, at least.

[MojoXN]

115. Look at the WV icon

You don't get too much more pro-Bush than this area. And yet I'm an outspoken liberal Democrat. "It can be scary" So fucking what? Are you that much of a coward to shrink from verbal battle? Or hell, physical combat for that matter. If that's the case, then you are a poor sort of person.

MojoXN

[clintoncomeback]

119. Ha ha ha........No I am not the kind to shrink from combat

It's just that I saw enough conflict in the 15 months I was in Iraq to last me for the rest of my life. Not that I owe you any kind of explanation. But there, have a freebie.

[dad]

116. People everywhere still have Bush stickers on their cars

and I think you know this

[Lerkfish]

19. hmm...warned by whom?

who would you be talking to before joining here that would warn you about us "nuts"?

curious...

[imperialismispasse]

53. I am seeing a pattern here.

Is it that they dont mean to repeat all the same thing of all the TSd ones who have come before? I mean they all say the same thing every single time! "I heard that this site didnt allow dissent". Ive seen that over and over again, quickly followed by a TS.

If you were a non-disrupter and you heard a site didnt allow dissent why the hell would you join it?

[clintoncomeback]

57. What is a TS? I would be able to answer your question a little

better if I knew that.

[Lerkfish]

63. ask the people that warned you about this place...

I'm sure they're familiar with the term.

[clintoncomeback]

66. You are not a very helpful individual, are you? I like to state

my opinion on issues just like you do. You seem to be a very angry and hostile individual. Like I said multiple times before, I have some VERY strong opinions on the war. I was there. You have your own equally strong opinions. Not all of them differ, I'm sure. This one does. Suck it up, and drive on. :toast:

[Lerkfish]

68. warned by whom?

answer that question.

and just so you know, passive aggressive don't work with me.

I'm not angry, I'm not hostile. I just have a working BS detector.

[txaslftist]

103. TSd is "tombstoned"

It means permanently banned (at least with your current name and stuff).

Don't sweat it. I'm relatively moderate, too, and until I had about five hundred posts I got called a "freeper in disguise" and told to "enjoy your stay, it'll be short".

The people telling you these things have reasons. We've gotten a lot of "trolls", Republicans who take joy in coming over here from Free Republic (a Republican site) and disrupting conversation with insults, profanity and chronic mispellings.

Just follow the site rules and don't personally insult folks and you will find there is ample room for moderate voices here.

As for all of you old timers troll hunting, while I recognize the need to be vigilant, you need to realize that this board is pretty much exploding with new members. There are going to be a lot of short post counts and a lot of moderate views expressed as less radical folks start catching on to what we're about.

Be patient.

[tavalon]

107. Okay, I'll answer your questions

With a comment to my fellow DUers to preface. Even if this one does turn out to be a troll, he disrupts reasonably and well, and frankly I think you guys are just being way too sensitive and suspicious here.

Now, TS is a person who has been tomb stoned for disrupting poorly, as the epitaph on the tombstone says.

The other people they think you are referring to, I suspect, are those we call freepers, the people who frequent FreeRepublic. They think they are our conservative equivalent. We don't think of them as in our league (We tend to be quite taken with how well read and erudite we are ;) )

I haven't seen anything in your posts that warrants the circular firing squad and I've taken a few disruptors out in my day so I like to believe that I'm good at recognizing them. I am most likely full of shit.

And one last piece of advice, if you can't get the sharks to stop taking out chunks of your hide, it might be time to go over to the lounge. They'll mix you a great drink and commiserate with you.

[clintoncomeback]

118. Thank you for your awesome replies, both of you. I do try not

to disrupt.But I tend to be so opinionated about certain things that it is bound to happen. I can see how trolls would be a major problem here, and quickly dealt with! And yes, I have been very impressed by the articulate and eloquent way most DUer's employ the Queens English!

[DistressedAmerican]

65. I Suspect You Will Find Out Soon Enough...

I'll post yours on this thread when it comes your way so you can see it looks like.

[titoresque]

74. Ok....

I really needed that one!

:rofl: :toast:

[tavalon]

102. You aren't specifically asking me, but I have an answer

It's fairly well known that DU tends to attack its young (those with postcounts under 1000) who have the strength to post a dissenting opinion, even if they are likely allies and not trollbait. I've seen it, you have likely seen it and many former DUers go out and spread that tendency of ours far and wide. They make fun of us for it and well, they probably should. We certainly seem to have the "shoot first, ask questions later" philosophy when it comes to those with low post counts.

[flyarm]

58. warned by who?????????

so those with very few posts know all about du????????

to quote you..."hate how everyone on this board???"

seems to me most agree that we want these pictures out and out now...

the majority here seems to agree with this...in fact most of us here on du have fought and signed petitions and gone all out to get these videos and pictures released...if you don't like that ..well you may be at the wrong place...

i want transparency ..because hiding them is only prolonging the murder of our troops...because americans may not know about these crimes..but i assure you everyone in iraq knows about them in detail as does everyone in the mid east....and as long as americans have their heads in the sand ..the longer our troops are exposed to being killed in iraq...because of this administrations war crimes!!

the only ones being protected by these videos and pictures not being exposed and released are the criminals in this administration!

fly

[Lerkfish]

61. "the only ones being protected...the criminals in this administration"

you are absolutely correct.

anyone who seeks to prevent their release is seeking to protect this administration, bottom line.

[MissB]

14. The American Public *NEEDS* to see it.

Jeezus.

[Lerkfish]

15. LOL! so, the pictures are worse than the actual acts, right?

I think your talking points are askew.

[cynatnite]

18. I loathe to see these disgusting images...

but they have to come out. It's not crap. The public has to know what is happening to even the most innocent and to our military.

[WilliamPitt]

32. *snarf*

:eyes:

[deutsey]

38. Rush could use them to make "Club Abu Ghraib" T-shirts

:eyes:

[Mutley]

41. No one wants to see it, but everyone MUST!

The whole world needs to see how corrupt and power-greedy these people are. With DIEBOLD, the only way we can win is to start a world-wide revolution.

[underpants]

60. Welcome to DU clintoncomeback

:hi:

[0007]

70. Speak for yourself not for me!

Every American that wants to see them should have that right.

[Kralizec]

72. I know what you mean, but most Americans don't know the truth

about what happened in Abu Gharib, and definetely not to the full extent. It's a matter of letting the public know what our military is doing...

Peace.

[Ladyhawk]

81. It's just like being insulated from the war by not looking at pictures of

the dead. Most Americans have no idea of what's going on over in Iraq. They need to know the truth. For some people, only a picture can convey the horrible truth.

Why do you think the citizens of Dachau were forced to walk through the concentration camp after the war ended? During the war, the citizens went about their lives, never sullying their "beautiful minds" with what was going on right there in their own town.

[NYC]

83. The American Public ought to know how their tax dollars are spent.

Most will object if they know.

[Clark2008]

85. What part of the Constitution do you not understand?

A free press?

The photos were taken in OUR NAME! We DERSERVE to know what was done IN OUR NAME!!

If you don't want to see them, keep burying your head in the sand.

Geesch.

[phylny]

87. I suppose you don't want us to waste our beautiful minds on it? n/t

[mike_c]

88. the American public NEEDS to see whats being done in their names....

eom

[SammyWinstonJack]

89. I don't want to see it, but that doesn't mean I want it covered up either.

I think it should be available for view to the general public. Those who wish to see the pictures should have that right.

[Warren DeMontague]

96. Yeah, far better to COVER UP THE TRUTH

Only way we'll ever get any acknowledgement or awareness of what was done in our name is to release the images.

And if they don't release them, the FOIA is meaningless.

[Alpharetta]

100. Absolutely. We must hide the hideousness

If the world finds out the hideousness of American foreign policy, gunpoint democracy, shock and awe criminal justice, mercenary outsourced security, what our missing billions of dollars produced in rape, murder and torture, the whole idea of American supremacy would be threatened.

[Crunchy Frog]

117. That's exactly why it needs to be seen.

The American public, through the government it elected, and through what it has allowed that government to get away with, is responsible for those events, and the images of them. The only way we, as a society, can correct our behaviors and make more responsible choices, is if we can see the results rather than having them swept under the carpet for us.

It's called accountability. People who are never made to face the consequences of their actions never have any reason to change. A prime example of that is GWB.

It these images provide a jolt to the American people, that will be a good thing. You have the option of not looking at it.

[SunDrop23]

3. "...should be released."

I say it will never happen.

[kliljedahl]

4. I agree

Bushco will destroy them before they release them

[tex-wyo-dem]

10. I posted this on another thread...

Thanks to Nookiemonster for originally posting the judges comments below:

The judge said: "Our nation does not surrender to blackmail, and fear of blackmail is not a legally sufficient argument to prevent us from performing a statutory command. Indeed, the freedoms that we champion are as important to our success in Iraq and Afghanistan as the guns and missiles with which our troops are armed."

I would just like to say to all you RW lurking idiots who think this will "damage our image" and "put our troops at risk", everyone in the world already knows that our government is condoning torture, much of the world already hates us, and, believe it or not, much of the world is nervously watching us as not only a superpower, but a fascist and possibly dictatorial superpower. What releasing these photos will show the world is that even the highest powers of our government are not above the law or the Geneva Convention and that democracy truly does win in the end -- and that's the most important message we could possibly send at this point.

[praisethelowered]

25. And most importantly. . .

The iraqis who are likely to see these photos and get enraged and join the insurgency. . . well, they already know what happened because it happened to them, thier family, and thier friends.

So who exactly is the DoD protecting. . . semms like they are protecting themselves.

-praisethelowered. . . suspected freeper of the day

[txaslftist]

108. Who is the DOD protecting?

How about the soldiers who are going to get IED'd because of these Iraqis getting "enraged"?

Five got IED'd yesterday, in case you forgot.

[Cats Against Frist]

114. Yeah -- don't the terrorists win

if they've impaired our nation, so much, as to be rendered "secret," and without public oversight. I say if these photos DON'T get out -- Osama's already won. (Of course, he already won with the Patriot Act and the draining of our treasury, but I guess he'll get the triple crown).

[faithfulcitizen]

16. I believe in transparency, but still, this scares me for our troops. nt

[me b zola]

23. The people of Iraq and other ME countries already knows what goes on

This will be no suprise to them. It will, however, shock the American public awake. What noble cause?

[faithfulcitizen]

39. who said Noble cause?

:eyes:

[me b zola]

59. Cindy's question will resonate even more when Americans see these pics

They have heard that she is asking that question, and it will run through their minds when viewing children being raped in their name.


Oh, back at ya. :eyes:

[Lerkfish]

24. bullshit. the troops are already in trouble because the Iraqis KNOW

about the abuse. The only releasing them changes is for mom and pop bushite in peoria to have to confront the depravity of the demons they unleashed against the innocent Iraqis.

Iraqis already KNOW about this. What do you think the lynchings in Fallujah were about? do you think the iraqis picked random westerners? No, they were the same blackwater mercs that tortured them. The lynchings were retribution to our war crimes.

[faithfulcitizen]

42. yo, settle down, we're on the same team buddy. I'm talking about

the pic's that haven't been released. Like I said, "I believe in transparency".

[Lerkfish]

69. I'm calm.

just making a point emphatically.

:)

[cynatnite]

26. It scares me, too, for that reason...

But I think this will also help get them home, too. Our military has suffered tremendously under this regime. Only a public outcry not heard in generations will make it possible.

[tex-wyo-dem]

29. I understand your fear...

however, the big picture is that the US has promoted itself as the beacon of democracy and freedom. The world already knows that horrific acts have taken place in various military prisons around the world, and that our government is doing it's best to hide these facts. An order by American law to expose our own governments transgressions will show that, indeed, we walk the walk and not just hypocritical.

[faithfulcitizen]

54. I agree w/your post 100%.

[peacebaby3]

31. I understand what you are saying, faithful, but you should check this out

too:

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4911471>

These photos are being posted by soldiers.

I still feel very bad about the good guys/girls over there just trying to make it home. One of them could have been my husband. Thank God he is not over there now. He came home in one piece.

[faithfulcitizen]

36. I know, it's so sick. Glad to hear that about your hubby. Mine was

discharged 2 months before his unit went. They are now on their 3rd tour I believe. Sometimes, I feel so guilty because I was so lucky.

But, there are in fact, good (no, great) guys and gals over there that this has hurt. I don't blame the people who release the photos, rather the twisted individuals that did this. I've heard there are pictures that are much worse than the ones already out. Ones that will inflame the Muslim world like we've never seen. That is what I fear.

[peacebaby3]

48. I'm glad your hubby didn't have to go. It's just such a tragic,

unnecessary mess. I hope when these pictures are released that the American people will hold this administration accountable.

[Judi Lynn]

50. Thanks for pointing this out. Anyone can get access to these things

without permission from a judge already. This would undoubtedly drive some people around the bend.

[DoYouEverWonder]

43. This may bring them home sooner then

because it can't get much worse then it already is for them.

The truth must be exposed.

[faithfulcitizen]

46. good point, that may be.

[mattomjoe]

21. Question: Do these judges have any proof that these images haven't

been destroyed already?

[txaslftist]

109. I think some news magazine still has copies ...

... I don't think the GOP can actually destroy them at this point.

[Lerkfish]

27. Just a random thought.

I find it interesting just what type of topics attract certain types of posters.

Let's consider that, shall we?

What do freepers get all hot and bothered about enough to out themselves?

well, for one, they don't want these photos released.

that's one fertile topic.

what are some more?

anyone?

[90-percent]

33. release the images

All American's should know exactly what their tax dollars are paying for!

-85% Jimmy

[clintoncomeback]

35. Well, it instantly attracted me, because as I've stated before-and

have always been up-front about(in the 3 whole days I've been here) is that I am a soldier. And I did spend 15 months in Iraq, came home last year. So, naturally I am going to have a strong opinion on things of this nature. And no, the army is not all legions of Bush-supporting androids. Youd' be pretty surprised there,Lerkfish.

[faithfulcitizen]

44. Welcome soldier! I like your name. :)

[clintoncomeback]

62. Thanks! I believe if we could just get someone like him to run

again, we'd bag an election soundly enough that a rig-count would pose no threat.......

[peacebaby3]

45. Clintoncomeback, my husband served in OIF and has been in more than

19 years. I have struggled with this as well. I think these photos have to come out as bad as I hate it.

Just like in the rest of the world, there are some very strong, passionate feelings on this board and most people mean well. It is difficult for someone who doesn't have a close family member to understand how terrifying this kind of thing is for the families of the innocent soldiers on the ground over there.

I'm very shocked by what is going on with this story as well from this thread:

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4911471>

This looks like these are coming directly from the soldiers themselves and it's disgusting.

[clintoncomeback]

56. I would hesitate to call those people soldiers. What they did

goes against every single one of the Army's core values. They disgraced their uniform in a way that I never would. We are supposed to be the people the world look up to, you know? I really sympathize with you two Army wives! My wife always says that being a spouse is the toughest job in the army!! She worried about me waaaay more than I worried about myself over there!

[peacebaby3]

71. I know. It's just horrible. I can't believe anyone would do this.

I'm sure nobody will get in trouble. Hell, they need every body they can get right now. You know, the fish rots from the head and they will never get what should be coming to them.

I would have to agree with your wife. People used to think I had lost my mind when I told them I would much rather be the one in Iraq than have my husband there. At least that way, I would know what was going on and have some control. The waiting and worrying nearly killed me. I've told my husband that I will never do it again. We made it through Desert Shield/Storm and now OIF (along with a lot of other times apart, as I'm sure you know). I really can't do it again and I was so, so against OIF that it made it twice as hard.

[Lerkfish]

86. the orders to torture came from the very top. Its not these soldiers

being "bad apples".

Gonzales wrote the memo that "wink, wink", said torture was okay, he wrote it for Bush, and Rumsfeld has being doing "renditions" since Afghanistan.

I call bullshit on blaming the individual soldiers ONLY.

The corpse rots from the head.

If you would hesitate to call them soldiers, then you have to hold the same disdain for the orchestrators of the torture, blackwater mercs who helped direct it, as well as individual soldiers who carried it out.

Don't you get it? Republicans salivate at the thought of torturing innocent brown people, they've been wanting to do that since the civil rights era.

[peacebaby3]

95. Lerkfish, what he is talking about is the soldiers from the link I posted

to another thread. Those soldiers chose to trade those pictures for porn and exploit people.

Yes, this certainly goes back to the whole "culture" that has been set by this administration, but these individual soldiers posting on that website are scum. They should be called what they are. Nobody forced them to take these pictures and make the horrible comments that are on that site.

[Lerkfish]

99. ah ,sorry for my confusion.

[SlowDownFast]

111. Welcome to DU, ccb.

Emotions run a little high here and we get alot of trolls (Repugs masquarading as lefties, even). So please forgive us if we're a little testy.

Thank you for your service and I hope that you'll continue to voice your opinions here - we need the voices of our soldiers who realize the truth about this fucked up war and the administration that lied to get us in this mess. There are many veterans who are members of DU, and there are increasing numbers of Iraq vets who are finding their way here, also (as they return here to the states and even a few who who are still in Iraq).

I think you'll find that most here will respect your opinions, even if some disagree, especially if you make it known that you are an Iraq war veteran.

Again, welcome home.

[clintoncomeback]

120. Thank you for your welcome. I think that there are a large number

of veterans coming back from this war with some big aspirations. Political ones. I'm one of them. We are all in our early-mid-late 20's. All the college we want, free(Thanks uncle sam) and a strong desire to have our own kids NOT to have to grow up during wartime.

[cynatnite]

30. Does anyone know how long before they go public? n/t

[ClintonTyree]

37. You confused "ordered to be released" with "actually released".

The White House will release those as soon as pigs take to the sky. The bushies don't recognize any judge they don't agree with, they're surely not going to obey any order by this judge.
Business as usual.

[Judi Lynn]

64. Richard Nixon's secretary suddenly was found to have erased

the damning 18 minutes of tape which would have buried him.

THAT'S the way MEpublicans face adversity.

[Fleshdancer]

40. I have doubts that they will be released

I can see someone in the Pentagon destroying them and taking the personal hit for it before allowing the images to be released. Either that or the case will go to the SCOTUS.

I have mixed feelings on the issue. Ultimately I wish the torture had never happened. I understand the need for releasing them but damn, this is going to be bad. *sigh*

[Jose Diablo]

49. The only reason the Pentagon is fighting the release of these photos

Is they are afraid Mom will find out what they have been doing in Iraq.

[NoBushSpokenHere]

52. Kick and recommended n/t

[Must_B_Free]

55. 87? I thought there were over 200 images yet unseen?

is this a head fake?

[peacebaby3]

73. I thought there were even more than that and some video as well. n/t

[katinmn]

75. The judge, the second time he heard this case, ruled that some

of the photos should be pulled because the faces of the victims were easily identifiable.

I think he has heard this FOIA case three times now. Geeze. I'm glad he isn't buying all of the Pentagon's delaying tactics.

[peacebaby3]

79. I wonder they couldn't be redacted like every other document they release?

Videos can be altered as well. Hmmm...

[wtmusic]

92. I smell bullshit

How hard can it be to redact a photo so it's totally unidentifiable?

[populistdriven]

76. BUSH is the one putting our troops in harms way, if these are so bad then

end the damn war. If a few photographs could make such a huge difference in a war then we should end the war.

[spanone]

80. CBS reported that the gov. can and will appeal. Months away.

[despairing optimist]

90. So * says, Bring 'em on.

Um, not in this case when his own arse is on the line. He doesn't risk a paper cut in the Oval Office.

With Nixon there was only one "smoking-gun" White House tape in which he ordered the Watergate coverup. With * it's practically a batallion firing at once. I think things are going to get much uglier than they did 30 years ago. Some of the perps in this administration cut their teeth back then, and they don't want to go down twice.

[eridani]

91. "Ask not what your country can do for you--"

--"ask what your country is doing." Seen on a sign at the antiwar demo.

[wtmusic]

93. The truth will set us free

and be a nice change of pace, besides. :)

[cassiepriam]

106. but first it will hurt like hell.

The truth must come out, no matter how painful.

[wtmusic]

110. that's right

and W's ratings would go up by 10% if he took real action on this, fired Rummy, demanded a *complete* investigation, visited the prison, etc.

But he won't. So they won't.

[Warren DeMontague]

98. THIS. IS. HUGE.

Link to ACLU Statement:

http://www.aclu.org/International/International.cfm?ID=19189&c=36

And what an, um, INTERESTING choice of words from Judge Hellerstein:

"Our nation does not surrender to blackmail"

And the Judge, apparently, doesn't surrender to the blustery, thinly-veiled threats of right-wing internet brownshirts (and the likes of Bill O'Reilly) ... He is my profile in Courage for the month!!!

[NoBushAndCo]

101. Agree!

[cassiepriam]

105. Repugs having a bad day again today....

[lateo]

112. "to be released" doesn't mean "released"

I will believe it when I see it.