POLL: Source of "Don't criticize Democrats" meme on DU?

[yurbud]

I've run into this a lot lately, even though what I and others say has not changed significantly in content or presentation.

Where is this idea coming from?

[Cocoa]

1. I challenge the premise

I think there is no "Don't criticize Democrats" meme.

[Mr_Spock]

2. I second the challenge

I propose that the level of paranoia is more of an issue...

[expatriot]

3. exactly. agreed.

I think what are perceived by some as "don't criticize the democracts" are actually responses seeking clarification.... such as "Which Democrats do you mean? I am a Democrat, am I included in your criticism?"

[JI7]

4. i agree

i don't see it either.

[Zen]

I agree - the premise is based on paranoia and is flame-bait

if I ever saw it. Thanks for bringing us together :eyes:

[lcordero2]

6. the criticisms center around why only a couple of

elected Democrats attended the DC protest. To my understanding, McKinney and maybe Conyers were there while everybody else was MIA. This is a valid point to raise.

[yurbud]

8. that's a good example of behavior that deserves criticism

how can they justify ignoring the wishes of their constituents?

[Cocoa]

13. the protesters aren't their only constituents

their constituents are the protestors plus the non-protestors.

[lcordero2]

22. it is

It was one of the reasons why I couldn't get ppl to vote DEM in the military. How can I justify asking somebody to vote for Clinton, at the time, when all of the grievances concerning the anthrax vaccination were ignored until extremely late into his second term?

[Mr_Spock]

23. Why come to a Democratic site to attack Dems?

Is there no place where we can form a consensus and work toward common goals?

Most of the criticism of Dems here is merely bashing them for not doing exactly what you wanted on EVERY issue. That's ridiculous on it's face and the unfair criticism of the party this site is named after just serves to ruin the atmosphere of DU.

[bettyellen]

9. oh that was this week, next week, a new reason to bash some dems....

will magically appear for those who make it a hobby.
flame bait.

[yurbud]

14. once elected do they automatically do the right thing?

[bettyellen]

20. simple minded flamebait. yaaawn.

and again, avoiding the issue raised in my post.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bettyellen]

65. but he's rubber and we're glue!

:rofl:

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bettyellen]

33. no ones asking you to, but if your time here is nothing but bashing

yeah, people are goping to notice and call you on it.
it maybe you choose to focus on this sort of thing, but most people here like to fight for the good as well.

[RoyGBiv]

34. Same here ...

Last week, I made a rather loud post that criticized the bashing of Dems as preface to criticizing certain criticisms of Cindy Sheehan. (How's that for critical. :-))

As I implied in the original rant and explained more fully in a subsequent follow-up, "criticizing Dems" is not the the problem. The problem is that no distinctions are made between "Democrats" like Zell Miller and those Democrats who are fighting very hard for our interests yet are essentially ignored by the media. We get posts in this forum on a daily basis that proclaim "Dems are cowards" because they don't say or do this or that, but when one looks closer, we find that numerous Democrats are doing or saying precisely what we want them to do or say, yet the initial criticism makes no distinction between Democrats generally and individuals who call themselves Democrats.

The problem reaches deeper. As an example, a couple months ago, on a particular night, Jon Stewart was the target of some rather venomous rhetoric because certain individuals felt he had "betrayed" us by even allowing a certain Republican a voice on his show. The previous day and the day following, Jon was again a hero for his incisive, witty criticism of all things involving the current administration.

And even deeper. Harry Reid, Barbara Boxer, Ted Kennedy, etc. are heroes one day and villains the next, often in the view of the same people. The point is not that we shouldn't criticize individual actions on a particular day, rather that we should actually take a moment and try to see what they are attempting to accomplish. Politics is an art with few absolutes, and if we demand them, we will always be disappointed.

It gives anyone with a clue a case of mental whiplash to see this kind of nonsense.

[Just Me]

75. Absolutely CORRECT. The premise is F-A-L-S-E.

Now, if the premise were "DON'T DESTROY DEMOCRATS" meme, it may get a bit closer to factual here on DU.

Doncha' think? }(

[MisterP]

5. DLC, though I liked the DHS option

many are just reticent about "self-criticism," like when Nixon was impeached ("empower the Commies")--others just keep repeating the same 6 or so talking points

[bettyellen]

7. it's not a meme, people just take notice when certain posters do nothing

but criticize Dems. there are some paid to divide and conquer through posting, so...
It's one of those things that make us go, hmmmm?

[yurbud]

10. your statement contradicts your signature

[bettyellen]

16. and you evaded dealing with the content of my post with that one.

slippery one, ain't you?

[yurbud]

37. Can you tell the difference between Lieberman & Conyers?

That is the essence of most of my criticism.

I want an elected official who will stand for certain values, and it's not enough for a guy to have a D after his name.

There is a struggle in the Democratic Party between those who want a party that represents the interestes of working class and middle class people as well as business interestes, and a faction that wants the party to represent business exclusively.

That's what the don't criticize Democrats meme is about. Once the GOP is out, they want us to go back to sleep and not pay too much attention to the future NAFTAs and bankruptcy bills that screw the little guy but leave the wealthy and corporations unscathed.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[yurbud]

48. What are the minimum things you would like to see Dems do?

are there some values and positions that you feel they MUST stand for?

If not, what's the point of "winning"?

It's not like football where you are cheering for one team because you like their jerseys.

Their actions have real world consequences.

[Mr_Spock]

54. Yeah, let's let the Repukes turn the USA into a fascist state

I mean, we know the Dems are no better right??

Come the fuck on with this bullcrap. I'll take a Dem over a Repuke any day - it's why this site exists.

[stillcool]

59. a little acerbic....and a tad...

irrational. Nasty habits.

[Mr_Spock]

62. Do you have a comment you wish to make?

Just wondering Mr. snippy.

[Mr_Spock]

11. Does eating ones own help or hurt - and why can't we defend Dems?

This poster would have you believe that defending Dems is a VAST DU CONSPIRACY.

The premise is not only false, but it serves to divide DU - I'm reporting this post as flame-bait.

[yurbud]

18. I defend those who do a good job and even praise those I dislike when

they do the right thing.

Defending is fine when it's based on a reasoned argument, not a panicked "DON'T SAY THAT!"

I would like to see the Democrats present us with a real alternative to the GOP, not just a Chamber of Commerce party without the religious nuts.

[Mr_Spock]

31. So, there should be a lot of posts attacking Dems here instead of Repukes?

Sometimes the Dem bashers make it so people who want to have a party feel like there is nothing left when they come here and some angry pissants are attacking Dems for not voting in lockstep - THE EXACT THING WE HATE MOST ABOUT THE REPUKES. The FUCKING HYPOCRISY of these people makes me want to kick their asses.

[yurbud]

39. it's not whether it's lock step or not, it's the issues they are voting on

I dislike that the GOP is voting together for bad ideas.

[Mr_Spock]

44. Are you a Dem or a Repuke? This site is for Dems. Read the rules

You can criticize a vote if you want - but you and I both know the hateful venom spewed by people here when a Dem votes different than THEY wanted them to. Most of those votes had NO INFLUENCE on the outcome of the vote either. Can't you see how STUPID it is to attack someone for a meaningless vote? Don't you see how all this bad blood hurts other more optimistic people like me here?

[Bernardo de La Paz]

55. Wrong

"Who We Are: Democratic Underground is an online community for Democrats and other progressives."

[Mr_Spock]

57. Read the rules regarding attacking Democrats:

Constructive criticism of Democrats or the Democratic Party is permitted. When doing so, please keep in mind that most of our members come to this website in order to get a break from the constant attacks in the media against our candidates and our values. Highly inflammatory or divisive attacks that echo the tone or substance of our political opponents are not welcome here.

You are not permitted to use this message board to work for the defeat of the Democratic Party nominee for any political office. If you wish to work for the defeat of any Democratic candidate in any General Election, then you are welcome to use someone else's bandwidth on some other website.

Democratic Underground may not be used for political, partisan, or advocacy activity by supporters of any political party or candidate other than the Democratic party or Democratic candidates. Supporters of certain other political parties may use Democratic Underground for limited partisan activities in political races where there is no Democratic party candidate.

Do not post broad-brush smears against Democrats or the Democratic Party.

[RoyGBiv]

77. Highlighting ...

I'd just light to re-highlight your highlight.

What irritates me, to no end, is wandering to a MSM media site and reading of some Republican criticizing a Democrat and then coming *here* to find the exact criticism parotted by various individuals who claim the protection of being a "progressive."

[Bernardo de La Paz]

78. Nothing wrong with those rules. However, this is not a "Dems only" site

If it were "Dems only", I would not feel welcome here like I do feel welcome. As social software, with a dynamite combination of well engineered user interface, juicy and entertaining content, educated and thoughtful participants, and a lively foment, this is a fabulous site. Few other sites match it for dynamicism, progressiveness, and high quality of material. Kudos to DU for maintaining inclusiveness and diversity within the context of their goals.

[Zen]

95. Full of yourself I see

:rofl:

[Just Me]

81. If you seek to defeat the GOP, you will advocate unification.

You will prioritize our common cause to remove those destructive, corrupt, greedy, exploitative bastards way above disagreements with positions anywhere near the left (which actually includes centrists and paleo-cons and base conservatives at this time) IF IF IF you truly seek to defeat the GOP.

That's my opinion and I ain't moving.

[mandyky]

12. I feel I need to clarify my no meme vote

since we have trolls here, and we find them out when they bring up "old criticisms" like Kennedy and Chappiquitic or Hillary and Whitewater, that kinda thing. I remember a lot of us being ticked at people who voted yes on Roberts, for the bankruptcy bill, etc.

People even criticized Gov Blanco for her prayer day right after the hurricane, while people were dying. I think one reason so many of us stuck up for Blanco and Nagin was we thought BushCo would totally scapegoat them, not a meme.

[yurbud]

21. I'm criticizing war vote, Roberts, bankruptcy, etc...

major issues, not style or personal stuff.

[Just Me]

15. Uh, if anything I see as much criticism of Dems here as Repubs.

Moreover, I personally find destructive (rather than constructive) criticism and persecution of most of the Democrats and lots of progressives/liberals/lefties offensive. Since when do liberals throw people away because of a difference or two and/or a mistake from time to time? :shrug: That intolerant, either/or approach to whether someone can remain or must be thrown out appears right-wing to me.

[yurbud]

24. part of why I brought this up is a couple of people have said "get out"

for posting observations based on evidence.

There is room for moderates and even in some ways cultural conservatives here, but blind faith, and generic cheerleading is not productive.

If you have a specific defense for somebody I criticize for a specific action, great.

But don't just tell me to shut up as a couple of people in this thread implied I should do.

[bettyellen]

25. it's not just you. that's my take on things, too.

i can't believe someone tried to use Cindy Sheehan, who is calling out Bush to try and call out Dems. talk about diluting the message, what a waste of breath, a total lack of focus.
it's as bad as answers laundry list. makes you wonder if they want the media to get it, or if they're just spewing for kicks.

[jonnyblitz]

40. ahem, EXCUSE ME, PRO-WAR DEMS deserve to be criticized!

and nobody is PAYING me to say that, and I am NOT GONNA STOP. why should they get a pass?!?!?! give me a fucking break!! :eyes:

I am GLAD Cindy criticized their sorry asses!!

[bettyellen]

61. i'm glad she did too, but i have seen people here criticisize Dems who

have supported Cindy as not supporting her, or not supporting her enough. and i wish they were. like you, better informed. it's going to take a lot of work to get these repugs out, and honestly some people here are hoping for the perfect Dem, one who agrees on all their issues, and i think they need to grow up, focus, choose their battles, so we can get somewhere. and also, check their facts before they post. i know it's a lot to ask, but i've seen an incrdible amount of uninformed negativity here, or maybe it's wishful thinking that a third party will be able to impact things soon. me? i have to be a pragmatist sometimes. it's an unfortunate system we have to work within, and within it i try to be productive.

[Just Me]

63. Hold on there, sweets. She said "USE CINDY".

What bugs me from time to time is, although particular decisions (votes) and positions held by certain identifiable Democrats are repugnant or just, plain wrong,...it seems to me that a lot of folks are putting so much energy into waging destruction upon "democrats" rather than waging all out political war against those who are in charge of the policies in this country: the BushCO/neoCON regime and their constituents.

My fabulous Senator has cast several votes that disappointed me, a great deal. But, I still consider him one of the last remaining wise and intelligent, passionate and articulate, caring and committed Senators in Congress.

Am I making sense? :shrug:

Edit: I shouldn't try to watch a movie and try to express my opinion here at the same time *LOL*

[bettyellen]

79. because someone suggested the Dems should answer her questions

for Bush. and i'm not sorry to respond, WTF? way to dilute a message, bud. thanks. but in the real world, they have made statements on record about iraq, or met with cindy, and yet that was all ignored by said poster. i think it's using cindy. sorry.

[Just Me]

86. Yes. I believe you are correct. Using Cindy to dilute a message,...

,...is EXACTLY what such communications amount to,...and is PRECISELY how the right-wing game is played.

When the focus is on division or perfection or hyper-criticism of a person or people rather than the message, a red-flag goes up for me every damn time.

It's the message(s), it's the issue(s), it's the position(s) or perception(s) or ideology(ies) we should be focusing upon. When the attack is against the person (excepting the right-wing, at this point, because they delivered this nasty character assassination bullshit to politics and unto our country,...and I am ready to give it right back to those bastards), especially a person associated in any way with liberals, which is now a smidgeon to the left of extreme right,...I auto-figure it's fertilizer for the fascists.

[bettyellen]

93. and the OP seems not to be able to find anything unifying in the current

Dem party, i get the message that we are inseperable from the DLC or Lieberman because we choose our battles against the bigger, more urgent enemies. what a load of bullshit, i think we just have priorities and the ability to focus that is i'm sorry to say, sorely needed around here..
why is it that we can both list Dem values and he the OP seems confused? are they just incapable of being pro- anything?

[Zen]

99. I so agree with you

Attacking the Dem party is just not productive at this time. They need CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. I can't remember a single post bashing a Dem here where a constructive alternative was offered. Saying "they voted this way on this vote and I'll never send them another dollar" is the antithesis of productive.

[bettyellen]

102. yep, if you have pet issues, focus on them. if you want to take back our

govt, you gotta fucking focus on it and find some common ground and do something positive, otherwise you are fucking up the struggle, and become a tool of the repugs.

[Just Me]

104. AND, the bottom line is: every human being holds human common cause.

What is that cause? The cause is to defeat exploitation of human life for the purposes of profiteering. The truth is: WE ALL VALUE HUMAN LIFE. The "conservatives" certainly do NOT have a copyright, patent or trademark on every human being's value of life.

Even the "conservatives" are finally getting that the divisive abortion issue has been specifically wielded to divide and distract the American people from those who have/are/will engage in monstrous exploitations of human life for the sole purpose of expanding power and compiling profits.

United,...we WILL end the occupation of the U.S.A. and Iraq and other weak, non-threatening nations around the world by these corporate weapons of destruction to democracy, human values and human life.

[Mr_Spock]

87. It appears right-wing to me too.

I'm so tired of being attacked for defending Democrats on the Democratic Underground.

Constructive criticism of Democrats or the Democratic Party is permitted. When doing so, please keep in mind that most of our members come to this website in order to get a break from the constant attacks in the media against our candidates and our values. Highly inflammatory or divisive attacks that echo the tone or substance of our political opponents are not welcome here.

You are not permitted to use this message board to work for the defeat of the Democratic Party nominee for any political office. If you wish to work for the defeat of any Democratic candidate in any General Election, then you are welcome to use someone else's bandwidth on some other website.

Democratic Underground may not be used for political, partisan, or advocacy activity by supporters of any political party or candidate other than the Democratic party or Democratic candidates. Supporters of certain other political parties may use Democratic Underground for limited partisan activities in political races where there is no Democratic party candidate.

Do not post broad-brush smears against Democrats or the Democratic Party.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

17. Criticism is good. Circular firing squads and screaming ninnies are bad

You are paranoid. Constructive criticism is good. Circular firing squads and screaming nincompoops are bad.

[yurbud]

30. give an example of each so I can see the difference.

[Mr_Spock]

36. You started this thread - justify your "conspiracy" theory about DU

What the heck is your problem?

[Bernardo de La Paz]

89. Example.

Post #68 by Mr_Spock is an example of circular firing squad bordering on screaming ninny:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4946669#4946988

I actually thought I might find another post by Mr_Spock in this thread that was an example of constructive criticism, but I failed. It seems that in almost all of his posts in this thread he is bashing and abusing people with vile names and threatening to take his marbles and go home. Sounds like a good plan for him. His posts are starting to be deleted by the moderators.

Post #34 by RoyGBiv is an example of constructive criticism:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4946669&mesg_id=4946842

Geesh, I don't know why it was necessary for me to point out the obvious.

[Mr_Spock]

94. Very nice

Thanks for helping defend people who want to defend Dems here.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

105. Well you are ashamed enough of your behavior to edit your posts

Well you are ashamed enough of your behavior to edit your posts, including the one I mentioned, after I mentioned it, after others remarked on it too, edited it to remove the vile namecalling and make it seem like a mild rebuke. I suggest you stop while you are winning, or whatever you want to call it, but stopping would be a good idea. Some time ago you threatened to take your marbles and go home, but since then you have continued posting. Oh well.

[Kokonoe]

19. I don't understand.

Is a meme a cultural item that is transmitted by repetition in a manner analogous to the biological transmission of genes.

[yurbud]

27. you do understand.

[bettyellen]

29. more or less, you got it....

[Just Me]

69. *LOL* That was great!!!!

:rofl:

[yurbud]

26. for the "stop criticizing" crowd, what would you say during a primary?

"Gee, they're all so good I can't choose?"

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[U4ikLefty]

42. Calling someone an "ass hole" is logical?!?

[Mr_Spock]

50. He deserves it - he started this flame-fest - not me.

That's all.

[U4ikLefty]

64. Oh please...how childish!!! n/t

[Mr_Spock]

70. Hey, you nosed into this - go fly a kite

Nobody asked you for your opinion.

[U4ikLefty]

74. I don't have a kite...and I'll give my fucking opinion if I want!!!!

Just because you don't like it is...lemme see....TOUGH SHIT!!!

You see, we still value free-speech on this site. Until we start personal attacks...like calling people "ass hole". Actually it is "asshole", FYI. ;)

[Mr_Spock]

80. Hey, you can keep attacking Dems 24/7 for all I care

But free speech is not guaranteed here:

Constructive criticism of Democrats or the Democratic Party is permitted. When doing so, please keep in mind that most of our members come to this website in order to get a break from the constant attacks in the media against our candidates and our values. Highly inflammatory or divisive attacks that echo the tone or substance of our political opponents are not welcome here.

You are not permitted to use this message board to work for the defeat of the Democratic Party nominee for any political office. If you wish to work for the defeat of any Democratic candidate in any General Election, then you are welcome to use someone else's bandwidth on some other website.

Democratic Underground may not be used for political, partisan, or advocacy activity by supporters of any political party or candidate other than the Democratic party or Democratic candidates. Supporters of certain other political parties may use Democratic Underground for limited partisan activities in political races where there is no Democratic party candidate.

Do not post broad-brush smears against Democrats or the Democratic Party.

[U4ikLefty]

83. Is that why YOUR post got deleted...lol!!!

I'm done & free-speech won..byeeee!!!

[Mr_Spock]

85. I was planning on getting lots of my post deleted here

It's a flame-bait thread and I am succumbing to the bait :D

[Zen]

98. At least starting a flame-fest eat out own thread is grown up

isn't it?

[Mr_Spock]

72. Since when does a flame-fest have to be logical?

Who asked for your opinion?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

46. I agree with you assessment.

He's an asshole.

[yurbud]

60. what is unrealistic about asking how you would discuss a primary?

those happen in real life you know.

[Mr_Spock]

67. That's NOT what we have seen here as attacks AND YOU KNOW IT

Stop trying to change the subject - there are no elections happening in the near future yet the viciousness of attacks on Dems is as bad as ever - is this productive?

[U4ikLefty]

71. Ummm, we have elections in 1996 & we have one here in California

in November. So your silly assertion that he is "trying to change the subject" because you ain't got no comeback (like calling him an asshole) shows your weak stance.

[Mr_Spock]

73. Yeah, wanting to stick up for Democrats is a "weak position" on DU

OK, I guess I'm going to have to find a new site without the Dem haters huh :shrug:

[U4ikLefty]

82. It's called a strawman. Like calling people "Dem haters" when

they disagree with you omniscient train of "thought"...puh-leez.

I'll continue to criticize the DINO's for what they are...sellouts!!!

[Mr_Spock]

84. Yeah, and it's up to you alone to decide who is a DINO and ATTACK THEM

I really think you should reconsider - this sort of "it's about me and what I care about". Your attitude doesn't include Dems like me - and I think we should stick together and defeat the RW Christofascists - don't you?



Constructive criticism of Democrats or the Democratic Party is permitted. When doing so, please keep in mind that most of our members come to this website in order to get a break from the constant attacks in the media against our candidates and our values. Highly inflammatory or divisive attacks that echo the tone or substance of our political opponents are not welcome here.

You are not permitted to use this message board to work for the defeat of the Democratic Party nominee for any political office. If you wish to work for the defeat of any Democratic candidate in any General Election, then you are welcome to use someone else's bandwidth on some other website.

Democratic Underground may not be used for political, partisan, or advocacy activity by supporters of any political party or candidate other than the Democratic party or Democratic candidates. Supporters of certain other political parties may use Democratic Underground for limited partisan activities in political races where there is no Democratic party candidate.

Do not post broad-brush smears against Democrats or the Democratic Party.

[U4ikLefty]

88. At least I don't call them "ass hole" of "mother fucker" like you did.

Perhaps you should re-read the terms yourself.

[Mr_Spock]

90. I know that I am getting pissed and that is why the rules exist

I already reported this thread as flame bait and I will continue to get my curses in until it is locked. At least my rule breaking is based on being tired of being criticized for defending Dems here:

Constructive criticism of Democrats or the Democratic Party is permitted. When doing so, please keep in mind that most of our members come to this website in order to get a break from the constant attacks in the media against our candidates and our values. Highly inflammatory or divisive attacks that echo the tone or substance of our political opponents are not welcome here.

You are not permitted to use this message board to work for the defeat of the Democratic Party nominee for any political office. If you wish to work for the defeat of any Democratic candidate in any General Election, then you are welcome to use someone else's bandwidth on some other website.

Democratic Underground may not be used for political, partisan, or advocacy activity by supporters of any political party or candidate other than the Democratic party or Democratic candidates. Supporters of certain other political parties may use Democratic Underground for limited partisan activities in political races where there is no Democratic party candidate.

Do not post broad-brush smears against Democrats or the Democratic Party.

[Just Me]

91. A strawman. No. I don't think so. Define "strawman".

For that matter, define "DINO".

[U4ikLefty]

97. Wow, I didn't think you needed ME as a dictionary, but here it goes

straw man
n.
An argument or opponent set up so as to be easily refuted or defeated.

I was being labeled a "Dem hater" so all of my arguments would be easily cast aside, beacuse I'm a "Dem hater".

A DINO is a Democrat (usually a member of congress) whom votes against the middle-lower economic/socioligical class in favor of the rich/corporate interests. There are other criteria, but I'm sure you are not interested in the nuances...you are more concerned with winning a pissing-contest, pretty sad!!!

[Zen]

100. You are still not helping here at this time

I would say you are not helping the Dems at this time.

[U4ikLefty]

101. WTF is that supposed to mean? Another ambiguous insult..lol!!!

If hurting the Dems means telling the truth, then call me a "hurter"...if that's even a word.

Your judgement means nothing to me, BTW. I have registered over 200 voters (mostly Dems) in the last 3 years...how many have you got?!?

[Zen]

103. You're a real hero - register Dems and come here and alienate them

:shrug:

I really don't have the time to argue with you - I just don't think you are working in the best interest of DU and the Democratic party when you attack people who are fighting for (what we thought) was a common cause.

:shrug:

[RoyGBiv]

52. Define this crowd ...

Specifically. Show us some examples of those who claim no Democrats should be criticized.

[Rowdyboy]

32. There have been people who defend Democrats and the party since

the day I discovered DU in 2002-thats not new. Many of the posters here actually LIKE most Democrats. Certainly, all Democratic office-holders have disappointed me from time to time but I don't go screaming how they're DLC scum and need to be exiled from the party. You can never have a majority party when only one point of view is acceptable.

If people put half the energy they waste here by criticizing Democrats into electing better Democrats and opposing Republicans, we might actually make some small difference. Circular firing squads certainly aren't the answer.

[Mr_Spock]

38. I agree - hey OP - read this post - it makes sense

unlike your half-cocked opinions.

[yurbud]

53. you can't elect better ones if you can't figure out who they are

this is a place for exchanging information.

I'd like to know what somebody stands for before I give them my time and money, and I've given to more democratic candidates than I can afford.

I like far more democrats than republicans, but if more of them stepped up to the plate and told the truth, the right would not have been able to drag us as far down the path to being a banana republic.

I don't want to be like Bush and give someone a Medal of Freedom for being a fuck up.

[Rowdyboy]

92. Figuring them out is one thing...Character assassination based on one vote

is another entirely. If I wanted to spend that much board time bashing Democrats, I'd sign up at at a conservative or a progressive board where EVERYONE would agree with me.

I have no problem with legitimate criticism, but if all one does is attack, belittle, and insult Democrats, then they're in the wrong place.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

45. Other: Some DUers are sick of non-Democrats bashing our party on DU.

[Mr_Spock]

49. Tell me about it - how many "other" party's come here and BASH Dems freely

They aren't even Dems - do they even know the charter of this site?

[RoyGBiv]

51. Indeed ...

This truly irritates me.

[Misunderestimator]

56. I second that opinion.

[yurbud]

58. I have posted this in other threads, but what do you want dems to do

BESIDES replace republicans in office?

That's not a criticism or Democrat bashing, that's asking for positive statements.

Once you think of those things, ask yourself what you would do if the Democrats DIDN'T do those things. Why is it wrong to voice an opinion about their actions?

[Mr_Spock]

76. What difference does it make if you rip them up apart here?

I'll take most Dems over any Repuke any day of the week - can we at least become a majority again before we start splitting hairs?

[yurbud]

66. to those calling me a paranoid crank, how do you account for poll results?

[Mr_Spock]

68. You are attracting the venomous attackers

Thanks for ruining this place for the people who simply wish to defend Dems.

[Just Me]

96. Honestly, I just wonder whose "bud" you are.

If you are unwilling to join others who are not perfect, fail to "think" like you, believe like you or fully meet your expectations in order to defeat a clear and identifiable enemy to our rights and freedoms and Constitutional guarantees and hopes and American dreams,...including "Just Me" who is unique and different from you,...

,...to whom are you a buddy? :shrug:

We have an elite corporate (Republican) body in charge of every policy that is destroying not only other countries but our own,...destroying every value and belief that Americans and people around the world had about the light of democracy,...and you choose to attack everyone other than those completely in charge and in control of those destructive policies.

Why?

[Moderator]

106. Lock

This thread has degenerated into a flamefest.