Payback time - Telling the true story of Andy Stephenson's Stalking.

[benburch]

I have added the story of Andy's stalking to the Wikipedia entry for Free Republic;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Republic#Discussion

I call upon DUer who are Wikinauts to keep an eye on this entry and protect it against vandalism. By which I mean, its defacement or outright deletion. People who have documented sources may of course change or revise this entry.

[tompayne1]

1. good idea

I must confess in my younger days i had far too much fun with the wikipedia.

[populistdriven]

83. I will check this entry at least once every week!

[DistressedAmerican]

2. Nice!

[benburch]

3. Anonymous vandals at it already.

I will revert the edit to what I had there.

[coffeenap]

4. Oh Ben, it is great.

:hug:

[Midlodemocrat]

5. You know what they say.

Revenge is a dish best served cold.

Nice work, Ben

[annabanana]

6. Thank you...

for all of us who cared for Andy and support his cause..

2006 is coming..
Voter Verified Paper Ballots

[I Have A Dream]

7. RECOMMENDED so as many eyes as possible see this...

and are there to protect it.

Thanks, benburch!

[TallahasseeGrannie]

8. Thank you for the link

I have seen sig lines with his name and picture and wondered who he was. I guess the final "and in your face" assumes that most of the folks who will read it are from, shall we say, The Dark Side?

[yodermon]

9. Don't see it.

:shrug:

Is it in the "Discussion" section?
The string "andy" does not appear anywhere in the text. Has it been freeped already?

[Mutley]

10. Looks like someone took it out.

You could have a major fight on your hands keeping that in.

[Flubadubya]

11. Someone obviously did take it out...

I was just reading it before coming back to this thread. Boy, someone sure feels threatened over that one! How sad these people are. :grr:

[emcguffie]

12. If it's there, I can't find it either. nt

[DemReadingDU]

13. I don't see anything about Andy either

[benburch]

14. Vandals removed the entry.

It is back.

I have been filling out the forms for vandalism on Wikipedia.

[Mutley]

15. nope.

gone again. :grr: Freepers and CUers, you can try to hide the truth that you aided in Andy's death, but it will come out sooner or later.

[benburch]

17. I'll keep putting it back!

And I am complying with all Wiki policies.

[Mutley]

23. I still see it on the

CU entry, but not on FR. Has anyone looked into filing charges against them for the part they played?

[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mutley]

92. Oh, right. My bad.

[Flubadubya]

16. Umm... it's gone.

Looks like no sooner do you put it back than they take it out again. The REALLY hate the truth, don't they? Sorry Ben... that is really repugnant and disgusting. :grr: :argh:

[Tennessee Gal]

18. Don't see it..

Gone again?

[LynneSin]

19. Ben, it was removed could you post what you wrote here

so that those of us can read it. Not sure how we can help keep it in there but let us know and we'll try our darndest

[alcibiades_mystery]

21. Click the history tab at the top of the entry

And compare recent versions.

[Mutley]

27. LOL! Looks like ole rimjob himself is the vandal...

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Free_Republic&action=history

# ur) (last) 16:41, 4 October 2005 216.75.139.50 (→Jim Robinson)
# (cur) (last) 16:41, 4 October 2005 24.73.173.91 (→Discussion - Revert: Member of opposing forum is attempting to 'pay back' this forum with libel http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4968220#4968514)

[alcibiades_mystery]

31. benburch dug his own grave on this one

rimjob has good evidence that benburch's post is not meant to advance knowledge (the goal of wikipedia), but merely as payback: benburch's own words on this thread. Ooops. If I was involved in wikipedia administration, I'd have to look at that evidence and frown on benburch's actions. Encyclopedia's are not the forum for "revenge" or "payback." To the extent that benburch posits his entry as payback, his entry should be removed. Pretty simple.

[Mutley]

35. Whatever his motivations; everything he posted was fact.

[alcibiades_mystery]

49. Then he shouldn't have portrayed it as payback

As that only hurts his case for "fact."

Pretty simple, that. If you got up on the witness stand and stated a bunch of things as fact, and the opposing attorney got you to admit that you sought revenge on the opposing party, how much weight could a reasonable person give your testimony?

[alcibiades_mystery]

20. So are ya gonna keep posting it and having it redacted?

Seems like a fools errand to me.

Also seems like wikipedia is not necessarily the place to air your grievances on something like this. Just saying, you're making a bit of a mockery the spirit of wikipedia.

Why not simply suggest some connection to the Andy Stevenson drama and put the links at the bottom. It seems to me that you're the one engaging in wikipedia vandalism...

[benburch]

24. Eventually, Wiki editors will lock the page against changes.

Yes, that will be put back endlessly as it complies with Wiki rules.

[alcibiades_mystery]

26. Fool's errand, like I said

And the whole idea of locking a wiki page makes me a bit sick.

If it's that bad that they'd have to lock the page, maybe you're the one doing something wrong.

[ET Awful]

38. Save your sanctimonious nonsense.

Ben is doing the right thing by making sure that the TRUTH is put out there for all to see.

FR and CU were directly involved in hindering medical aid to Andy.

That's what wiki is for is to have the truth available isn't it?

I'm surprised that you would want to prevent that.

[alcibiades_mystery]

48. Eh

What is truth?

As benburch is saying, he's dealing with the editors now. I'm confident that the "truth" can be told in such a way that it excludes biases and other problems. The only nonsense is the idea that what benburch is narrating can reach some unvarnished "truth."

[pbartch]

85. keep this note KICKED so people are aware what is going on

[EFerrari]

113. "Air your grievances"?

My.

[wellstone_democrat]

22. they fundraising on Paypal over at FR this quarter?

interesting....

[benburch]

55. Yes, indeed they are.

But don't give them grief over that. Andy would likely not approve of that avenue.

[wellstone_democrat]

95. No, just "snarking"

I thought that was particularly disgusting.
No excuse or reason for that sort of thing at all.

[CornField]

25. Ben

I've kept my mouth shut for fear that saying what I feel would prompt you to take out a no-contact order against me, but I can't sit on my hands anymore.

I love ya, Ben!! When things are tough and I'm feeling discouraged, it seems like your posts here and elsewhere are always a bright spot. Thank you for posting that and going to bat for Andy.

[benburch]

56. You are most welcome!

Nice to know I have at least a couple of fans amid all the detractors.

[juajen]

60. Here too, Ben

What they did to Andy was beyond despicable. Thanks.

[YouthInAsia]

28. I dont see what it is that you're talking about. Maybe they took it down

[alcibiades_mystery]

29. Anyone can take it down

That's the nature of a wiki.

Ostensibly, this will provoke some kind of move toward compromise: what can be said about Andy that would be acceptable to the person taking it down? That should be the question. If the answer is "Nothing," then this post-redact war will go on forever, I suppose. But I think there should be some movement on benburch's side as well.

[Stephanie]

36. what movement are you suggesting?

ben posts the facts - what do you want?

[ET Awful]

39. What movement? He should stop telling the truth? I don't think so.

Sorry, but redacting the truth is ridiculous.

[alcibiades_mystery]

50. You can speak the truth without coming across as a nasty partisan

And that's the movement I'm suggesting.

[Stephanie]

58. Nasty partisan?

Your agenda is obvious.

[alcibiades_mystery]

59. OK, I was speaking in general

Not referring to benburch.

That said, his post there would obviously be read as partisan by the opposing side. Is it possible to state the facts of the case in such a way that the other side - or at least reasonable people in general - would have to assent to them? That's the point, anyway.

Whatever you interpret as my "agenda," I'll leave up to you.

On that front, I'll just say, quoting Seinfeld, that I'm not offended as a Republican or a freeper (I'm neither), but offended as a believer in the power of wikis to shape good arguments and build knowledge. This is precisely not the way to go about it.

[ET Awful]

63. Nasty partisan? You mean like continued posts on FR referring to

fundraising for Andy as "Scamdy"? Yeah, they STILL do that (as recently as 9/20/05).

[alcibiades_mystery]

64. FR is a partisan board

And nasty partisanship can be expected there. Their behavior re: Andy was reprehensible at best, downright dangerous and uncaring of human life at worst.

That said, the same partisanship is not the purpose of wikipedia. It's a mystery to me why so many here feel that I'm defending Free Republic in some way. I am not. They're a despicable lot, to be sure. It must be the "with us or against us" attitude that has done so much to increase political cynicism. I'm not defending Free Republic. I'm defending wikipedia.

My point is this: even the facts that benburch presented can be presented in a way that doesn't slip over into partisanship. If they can't, then they are probably worth little as facts. And the wikipedia editors apparently agree with me (see benburch's post below). In this particular case, I am not with benburch, nor am I necessarily against him. I am with the principles of wikipedia, and wish he would be too.

IMHO, this latest version, posted by Dominick, comes much closer to a non-partisan account than benburch's version: "Some members of Free Republic, Conservative Underground and other conservative web sites discussed voters rights advocate Andy Stephenson while he was dying of cancer. Participants speculated that Andy Stephenson did not have cancer. Paypal cutoff his informal fundraising for his operation and later his Medicaid benefits for his aftercare and terminal hospital care were terminated, activists blamed FR for these actions."

[ET Awful]

73. So, if you are convinced that their behavior towards Andy was

reprehensible, why do you defend them removing an accurate description of that behavior from Wiki?

[alcibiades_mystery]

76. Did you even read my post?

:crazy:

Are you kidding me?

[ET Awful]

81. I did indeed read it, and I still find your defense of removing facts from

the public eye almost as disgusting as the facts themselves.

[alcibiades_mystery]

88. Well, that seals it

No use reasoning with you, as you're position is bizarre and unreasonable.

Lucky for the rest of us that the wikipedia editors don't hold your views, or the site would be nothing but one big rant after another, and of little use to anybody.

Cheers.

[ET Awful]

89. Yup, having the truth up for everyone to see is always bizarre

and unreasonable.

It's always much better if you hide the truth behind a charade of feigned "neutrality".

[alcibiades_mystery]

93. All fanatics believe they're fighting for truth

Join the club.

[ET Awful]

96. So now I'm a fanatic . . .

Do you know ANYTHING about the situation surrounding Andy? Anything at all? Have you read any of the articles and FACTS presented?

No?

I suggest you do some research and quit the name calling, you might actually learn something.

But I guess as long as you don't think that people who attack those who are dying of cancer should be called on it, I guess you can continue living in your little world where calling them on it makes someone a "fanatic."

[alcibiades_mystery]

97. I've followed it quite closely in fact

What I haven't followed are the defenses put forth by FR or any others. I know our side of it, and yes, I even believe a good deal of the representations, but I'm not so blind or fanatical to think that our side isn't inevitably colored by loyalty, emotion, or partisanship. So, just as an example, the term "cyberstalking" contains some subjective or evaluative elements that can be easily and even reasonably questioned. Did the kos diarists and Americablog "cyber-stalk" Jeff Gannon/Guckert, or do "research" on him? Depends on where you stand, I suppose. And yes, of course, the claims made about Guckert turned out to be true, while those made by numerous depraved individuals on FR turned out to be false, but the question is how are we to label the activity. There is no "truth" between a representation of "research" and a representation of "cyber-stalking," or at least no clear criteria that reasonable people agree on to adjudicate that distinction. And wikipedia's not the place for all that. As it stands, I think the wikipedia editor's revision is an adequate rendering of events. It can be built upon, to be sure, and may short-sell a good deal of the events. Your challenge is to present additional information in an indisputable and rhetorically neutral manner. If you can do that (and I suspect that you're far to invested and unwilling to think through the rhetorical situation of wikipedia to do so at this point), then have at it. If it's just a partisan payback operation (as benburch EXPLICITLY states in this very thread), then it has no business at wikipedia.

Rather than fighting with me, perhaps your time would be better spent crafting an entry apprpriate to the wikipedia forum, no?

[Gold Metal Flake]

30. Now the financial stuff is gone.

Half the page is missing.

[Mutley]

33. Someone noticed all the negative things about FR

in that entry and they are taking it all out. They are hiding nothing, though, as you can see it all in the "history". http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Free_Republic&action=history

[GreenPartyVoter]

32. Thanks Ben

[benburch]

34. This is now being thrashed out with the editors;

HERE -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Free_Republic#Andy_Stephenson_FR_covedrage

[jarnocan]

54. In a way I hope

a law suit for those who took specific HARMFUL actions-to pay pal etc. or those helping to hide them, will ensue. I think it could help perhaps,more of the truth coming out, but I don't know if it is worth it- so much else is happening.
there is a fairly new petition about Russ Holt's HR550 http://vvlobbydays.blogspot.com I met at least one DU person- a friend of Andy's at the lobby days-saw her pic on here with andy, but I don't know which DUer she is.

[Norquist Nemesis]

37. BEN!!! THEY'RE TRASHING YOU NOW TOO!

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ben_Burch&diff=24579430&oldid=24492220

Check the compare. What they're doing is disgusting and repulsive!!!!

[benburch]

41. Don't worry! I'm a big boy, and can take it.

At least they got most of their facts right. I am a kinky fellow...

[Catherine Vincent]

43. Well you know what they say....

We ALL have a little freak in us. :-)

[Norquist Nemesis]

45. LOL!

It's still vile and disgusting the way they slander and libel a person. It's cyberterrorism.

[benburch]

51. If you think that's bad...

You should see what this one homophobic "Liberal" wrote about me!!!

Actually, I Need a better term... He hates me because I'm kinky and bisexual... Says I am a "Pretend Gay", though he seems to have an interesting fascination with my body orifices... But homophobic is the best I can come up with to describe his actions towards me.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Catherine Vincent]

42. Yup.

They are even obsessed with some of our members.

[TrogL]

47. I'm one of them

It's pretty funny. I think I have more fans over there than here some days.

[Stephanie]

44. That's not the half of it

They are sick, sick people. They created a whole website dedicated to bashing Andy while he was dying of cancer. I can't tell you how much it hurt him. His treatment was interrupted because of their harrassment.

[Coexist]

46. theres that compassionate conservatism for you!

btw - thanks for the PM

[benburch]

52. Ah, well, looks like I lost the fight over there.

I will find another way to get that information on the record.

And it WILL be on the record and linked to FR's Wiki page

[Mutley]

53. I looked and there is no entry for Andy in wikipedia at all.

You could start a whole new article about him and link everything from there. You could also include a link to Andy's article from DU.

[Gold Metal Flake]

57. A couple of thoughts

Don't count your chickens before they hatch, especially on a message board.

Image is everything, so keep that in mind when titling the thread when you decide to go ahead and publish your chick tally.

Love ya! :toast:

[jarnocan]

65. I don't see anything really wrong in the tittle,

"Payback time - Telling the true story of Andy Stephenson's Stalking." but it's a little disapointing -sorry. The folks at Wikipedia should check out the news article links, and try to determine validity -but not just allow stupid negative smears.
I think Andy's story could warrant an entry on their site.

[alcibiades_mystery]

61. You lost the fight because you were wrong to post this thread

And probably wrong in the way you stated your case on the wikipedia page.

I, for one, think the editors of wikipedia did the right thing here.

The question now is, can you formulate the facts of the case in such a way that a reasonable editor will allow them to be posted? That's where you lost. You came across not as building knowledge, but as settling persxonal scores. That's not the purpose of wikipedia, nor should it be.

[Bridget Burke]

75. Yes, we know there are spies here.

Just lurkers or real DU'ers?

[benburch]

80. Some of them appear to have posted on this very thread.

From the tone of some of the comments...

[alcibiades_mystery]

94. Hmmmmm

Curiouser and curiouser...

:eyes:

[jarnocan]

62. IMHO they should

make people sign in and take some bit of responsibility, before something becomes public, which I am sure you would have gladly done, but not the idiots that posted that silly smear stuff.
I think for a real article -you should submit it, and they can consider it. If they just react to responses without doing any fact checking likely they will just get freeped (or Dued) and become pretty meaningless.
good try, I respect you.

[Flubadubya]

66. Hey Ben... what about Snopes?

Do you think you could get them to take enough interest in this to get the facts out? Perhaps that might be a great "fact-finding" route to take if you (and/or DU and you together) could get them to become interested enough in this issue to research it and put the facts out. Just a thought. :think: BTW :yourock: Ben!

On edit: Kinda like letting them be the "arbiters" in the debate... looks like Wikipedia doesn't do that sort of thing.

[benburch]

67. Snopes is an excellent idea.

Does anybody here participate there?

[Chicago Democrat]

68. Truth is Power!

May Tara richly bless you!

Om Tara Tuttare Ture Soha!




Thank you very much for this.... its Karma

[nvliberal]

69. It's stuff like this which is why

I don't take Wikipedia as a serious source of information. It's fun to read, but I always want other sources, since the site isn't peer reviewed by academics.

The site shouldn't be a place to air gripes, and it also shouldn't be a place for deception information; for example, the entry on the book The Bell Curve. That entry is full of disinformation by the writer(s) who try to make it look like there is a legitimate controversy (meaning real debate by scholars of various viewpoints) over its "scholarship" when in fact the book has been solidly debunked over the years by reputable scholars.

[tigersumtin]

70. Thank you Ben

There will be a Reckoning I promise you that, and it will be soon.

[benburch]

71. Some editor has placed the following more neutral entry;

"Some members of Free Republic, Conservative Underground and other conservative web sites discussed voters rights advocate Andy Stephenson while he was dying of cancer. Participants speculated that Andy Stephenson did not have cancer. Paypal cutoff his informal fundraising for his operation and later his Medicaid benefits for his aftercare and terminal hospital care were terminated, activists blamed FR for these actions.."

[tigersumtin]

74. FR was just the tip of the iceberg

Several other groups,an individuals were responsible. eventually they will pay.

[Ellipsis]

84. I look forward to that day. n/t

[alcibiades_mystery]

77. You agree that it's more neutral than yours?

I do too.

And probably more appropriate. I also posted this revision in one of my posts above.

I have to say, I think the editors did a good job.

[ET Awful]

78. Too bad it doesn't mention that they called him "Scamdy", started an

entire site dedicated to discrediting him, offered money to anyone who could prove he wasn't sick, etc.

It's a bullshit cop out.

[benburch]

79. Feel free to add those items.

That is what Wikipedia is about.

I will add some links to FR posts the current article as well.

[tigersumtin]

86. too bad it didn't mention that Pancreatic Cancer Kills very painfully

And that his mother, and two surviving sisters where at his death bed when he died, or that Andy Did Not Want to DIE. Tell them to put that in there site... Naw that would be to much truth, they couldn't handle it.

[sakabatou]

72. kick

[troubleinwinter]

87. Thank you, Ben, for keepin' up the fight!

[sakabatou]

90. Hate from Freeper:

Paypal cutoff his informal fundraising for his operation because a member of DU started all this with a suicide post calling it a scam and asking for his $10 back and later his Medicaid benefits for his aftercare and terminal hospital care were terminated {{fact}}, activists blamed members of FR and CU for these actions as they were the catalysts for those actions to occur, as if CU and FR have the power to terminate medicaid in Washington state for one person{{fact}}.

Instead of owning up to their own shameful behavior on DU, they decided to blame others for their own actions (not uncommon for liberals) and they have been making empty threats of a lawsuit for months now.

No one still knows the amount of money that was raised.

[benburch]

91. Bet Ferrari filed a statement with the Washington Secy of State...

about the amount raised. It was if I recall quite a bit less that $60,000 and all of it was spent on Andy's medical care and travel for treatment.

[pitohui]

98. bet she didn't

last time i checked the washington secy of state knew nothing abt it

:shrug:

[benburch]

99. It was filed.

Takes months for these things to get listed.

[benburch]

101. And in any case, he left nothing but debts when he passed.

All of the money went to doctors and hospitals and thousands more, leaving just debt.

[EFerrari]

114. Got a fax number?

And, why would you spread more sh3t at this late date?

Andy is dead. He can't be hurt any more.

[benburch]

124. Self delete

Sorry, I get emotional where this topic is concerned.

[TechBear_Seattle]

100. Added to my Watch list n/t

[benburch]

105. Thanks!

We need to keep an eye on these guys.

A lot of this article needs to be re-sourced as there appears to be almost nothing in here from sources that meet the Wikipedia tests for content.

[phusion]

102. Who's the dolt that wrote this gem?

"Similar to what members of the extreme liberal forum, Democratic Underground, do to polls. They refer to is as "DU'ng", which is basically the same thing as "Freeping". Both sites manipulate polls."

In the manipulating polls section. Who said DU is "extreme liberal" and shouldn't you try to use correct grammar when you write on wikipedia?

[benburch]

104. Wiki is a soup with a thousand cooks.

If you don't like a particular section YOU have the authority to change it, but you had better be able to defend your edits as I had to today.

[benburch]

103. Current consensus text.

Some members of Free Republic, Conservative Underground and other conservative web sites discussed voters rights advocate Andy Stephenson while he was dying of amorphous cell pancreatic cancer. Participants speculated that Andy Stephenson did not have cancer. Posters who disbelieved he was sick, refer to Andy as "Scamdy" on Free Republic as recently as September 20, 2005. <1>. Paypal cut off his informal fundraising for his operation and later his Medicaid benefits for his aftercare and terminal hospital care were terminated and activists blamed members of FR and CU for these actions<[2>]. Andy Stephenson died from his cancer on 7/7/2005 at Seattle's Virginia Mason Medical Center<3>.

[alcibiades_mystery]

106. That seems like a good text to me

This is why I like wikipedia.

Just as a grammatical note, you don't need the comma between "sick" and "refer." "Posters who disbelieved he was sick" is a noun phrase acting as a subject, for which "refer" is the verb. Since there is no additional clause coming between the subject and the verb (a relative clause, or appositive, for instance), the comma is unnecessary and - in fact - incorrect. Perhaps the sentence could be better phrased as follows:

"Posters who believed he was not ill referred to him as "Scamdy" as recently as September 20, 2005." (This would also alleviate the awkwardness of using the present tense of "refer" when referring to a date in the past. Also, how will "as recently as" stand up in an ostensibly permanent post? Will it still be "recent" in September 2006? Maybe this would be better:

Participants speculated that Andy Stephenson did not have cancer. Proponents of this view at Free Republic referred to Mr. Stephenson as "Scamdy" throughout the time of the controversy, and some continued to use this moniker even after his publicized death.

[benburch]

107. Please go make that edit!

Nice thing about Wikipedia is that nobody minds the grammar police there! :D

[alcibiades_mystery]

108. Take it and run with it baby!

Gift economy, you know?

I do other stuff on wikipedia that I'd prefer not to be linked via IP with this issue, for rather obvious reasons. You go ahead and paste it in, though.

Cheers, and no hard feelings on my side. :toast:

[benburch]

109. Fair enough.

Done!

[EFerrari]

126. I probably shouldn't respond to this.

If only because I AM too involved to do a good, clear job.

But the facts are, there is no "bias" in calling the wingnuts in hounding Andy to his death bed. We have names, places, contact information.

There is no doubt that Andy was targeted. And other King County, WA activists have also been targeted.

The problem here is simply the dough to go after these people.

I myself have been down for about the last month or so. It takes quite a bit of energy to love your friend, help DU process his loss, then deal with your own.

But, as careful as I try to be in what I claim, there is no doubt that Andy was targeted. And that other elections activists are being targeted. And, the shooters count on people like me being too overwhelmed to keep going.

I'm so happy to disappoint their asses.

peace,
Beth

[kimpossible]

110. I just restored it again

Someone had just deleted it. I put in a bit of editing for style while I was at it. If you hate it, I won't mind if you put it back the way it was.

B-)

Some members of Free Republic, Conservative Underground, and other conservative web sites smeared voters rights advocate Andy Stephenson while he was dying of amorphous cell pancreatic cancer. Participants speculated, without grounds, that Andy Stephenson did not have cancer. Posters who disbelieved he was sick referred to Andy as "Scamdy" on Free Republic as recently as September 20, 2005. <http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1434439/posts>. False allegations of fraud prompted Paypal to cut off the informal fundraising for his operation, forcing his surgery to be delayed by two weeks <http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_elizabet_050714_the_stalking_of_andy.htm>. Later his <[Medicaid>] benefits for aftercare and terminal hospital care were terminated. Andy's friends and supporters blamed members of FR and CU for these events<[http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/071105Y.shtml>]. Andy Stephenson died from his cancer on 7/7/2005 at Seattle's Virginia Mason Medical Center<http://www.seattleweekly.com/features/0528/050713_news_andy.php>.

[blogslut]

111. May I make a suggestion Mr. Burch?

Instead of adding to the FR entry, why not make a NEW entry entitled:
ANDY STEPHENSON

[benburch]

112. Planning to!

That will take some work.

[EFerrari]

115. Ben, I can help with that.

Well done.

[benburch]

119. Good!

Lets get started.

[Stockholm]

116. I second that n/t

[Lerkfish]

117. its removed again, benburch, as of 8:51 EST Oct 5.

although it has a bizarre ending which seems unlike somthing free republic would say about themselves....

---It is also worth noting that Jim Robinson, who now quickly bans from the forum anyone who speaks disparagingly of the current administration said of George W. Bush on August 20, 1999:
"Well, by God, if you people insist on electing another cokehead as President, you damned well better throw open all the prison cell doors and free every man, woman, and child you're holding on drug charges. And if you're gonna elect another drug felon as President, you'd better rescind each and every one of your unconstitutional drug laws now on the books, including all of your unconstitutional search and seizure laws, and your asset forfeiture laws, and your laws that enable your unconstitutional snooping into our bank accounts and cash transactions. Well, I don't know whether to laugh or cry. You people are sick! Conservatives my ass. You people are nothing but a bunch of non-thinking hypocrits! You're a shame and a disgrace to the Republic!"---

weird.

[benburch]

118. Free Republic has a Stalinist desire to revise its own history.

Just remember that is what we are up against here. Neo-Stalinists. They are not conservatives- That is a smoke screen for the Sheeple.

[druidity33]

120. any page for info?

i'm not the best at navigation... and though i've read through this thread and got the gist of it all, i still haven't seen the original piece or any edited piece that has been written, by either our guys or their guys. Can someone offer a link that goes to somewhere it won't get deleted or moved? I'd like to read more on this.

[benburch]

121. Reply #103 in this thread...

This WAS the consensus text, but now it looks like a Stalinist unpersoning of Andy is in progress.

[Lerkfish]

122. its been rewritten to this: edit: OOPS! nevermind

Some members of Free Republic, Conservative Underground and other conservative web sites discussed left wing activist Andy Stephenson while he was dying of amorphous cell pancreatic cancer. Participants speculated that Andy Stephenson did not have cancer. Posters who disbelieved he was sick refer to Andy as "Scamdy" on Free Republic as recently as September 20, 2005. <1>. Paypal cut off his informal fundraising for his operation, as is their policy. His Medicaid benefits for his aftercare and terminal hospital care were terminated, for unknown reasons. His supporters accused Free Republic members and Conservative Underground members of causing those organizations to take these actions.<[2>].

somewhat more antiseptic, and spreads or dismisses blame.

edit: oops, have not kept up with this thread, didn't realize that WAS the final concensus text...sorry.

[benburch]

123. Never fear...

Even that will go down the Neo-Stalinist memory hole.

[EFerrari]

125. Missing in this account is the harassment of the hospitals,

of Andy's supporters. Our cars were burglarized, our homes were and our email boxes were.

Andy was threatened, in the last week of his life, with a bullshit inquiry from the WA state attorney. I had to try to calm down my dying friend while THESE HORRIBLE PEOPLE hounded him. To his deathbed. And do you think they gave a DAMN?

Bias? You bet your ass I'm biased. Just like a rape victim is biased.

They can't hurt Andy any more. But, that doesn't ERASE THE IMPACT THEY HAD ON HIS TREATMENT.

I'm a public person in San Francisco. If I EVER did anything shady, that would be the end of my career. And for weeks, I've had the names, addresses and phone numbers of the ring leaders of this effort. I would never put these major assholes through what they put me through. I never published their contact info. Because I can do better than that. Let them slime themselves. I will not go there.

My husband and I are easy to trace. We do fundraising for progressive projects, we did the lift off for Moveon's book here. We have a track record.

Who are the slime that started this? Who are they? Look for their record, you won't find anything. Because they are FAKES.

You decide who is ethical and who just tried to kill a very effective activist. You decide.